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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2014 1:41:26 GMT
Well, I thought this thread could use a little levity. 
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 1:42:17 GMT
Dude, chill. I'm peaing almost exclusively on my phone these days and must have hit the like on that one by accident. I went back and unliked it. Happy? FWIW I think this thread (most of it) is one of the most ridiculous to grace the new board so far. I agree with whoever said we all should just refuse to engage with those who start off with name calling and devolve from there. Merge, I know you and I don't chat on 2peas but I hold you in high regard because I respect you. I guess this "dude" just found it surprising that you would align with the likes of mzzzwhatever. Perhaps I should have just been surprised and left it at that.  Are you going to call lynlam out on calling all Democrats stupid?
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Post by katieanna on Nov 12, 2014 1:55:10 GMT
Our elected leaders should rise to meet our expectations. This is what we get when we have none. Or when we expect them to lie instead of tell the truth. The overarching theme that the American people are too stupid to know what's good for them so our lawmakers HAVE to lie to us to get support for their agenda is infuriating to me. I don't care who it comes from - Democrat, Republican or Independent. These people have ZERO interest in making our country better and in helping our people. Do we understand that? They're interested only in furthering their own agenda. Because no one with any shred of decency and or desire to truly better people's lives could outright lie about health care being affordable while knowing it wouldn't be. Many Americans knew that the ACA would be anything but affordable. How many threads did we have on the old board where we discussed the issues? How many of us pointed out the glaring faults of the ACA that those in favor of it either didn't see or didn't want to see? Personally, I think that there were many Americans that believed that the gov't would miraculously provide free health care for everyone and that's why they supported it...until the reality of it hit them square in their wallets. The gov't doesn't give anyone anything that it hasn't first taken from someone else. The sad thing now is knowing that it will only get worse...like everything else the gov't gets involved in that it has no business being involved in.
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Post by gypsymama on Nov 12, 2014 1:58:17 GMT
and yes, i did like it and won't be unliking it, lynlam is over the top ridiculous and manages to derail any attempt we have at a discussion about politics here and i was glad to see someone stand up to her
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Kath
Full Member
 
Posts: 446
Jun 26, 2014 12:15:31 GMT
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Post by Kath on Nov 12, 2014 1:59:23 GMT
The middle class got the lies...and we also got f'd.
Yes, yes, we did. We knew it was coming. We just couldn't stop it. And now we have to pay.
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Post by SabrinaM on Nov 12, 2014 2:52:52 GMT
Merge, I know you and I don't chat on 2peas but I hold you in high regard because I respect you. I guess this "dude" just found it surprising that you would align with the likes of mzzzwhatever. Perhaps I should have just been surprised and left it at that.  Are you going to call lynlam out on calling all Democrats stupid? I don't see her posts. 
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Nov 12, 2014 13:04:26 GMT
As a Republican, I think heath care reform was absolutely needed. I think lots of hardworking families benefit from the elimination of pre-existing conditions for denial of coverage, or letting your unemployed college graduate living at home stay on your policy until age 26. But it became clear that Obamacare is another form of wealth distribution. It increased the pool of uninsured who cannot pay who will ride on the backs of those that do. The 1% ers are unaffected and the premiums are crushing the majority of self employed and those employed by small businesses. While the unions and other special interest groups got Obamacare waivers. The middle class what did we get? We got the lies - the average family will get a reduction of $2,500 in premiums and you can keep your doctor. It's not just small business owners or those employed by small business. For nearly a year, we've paid an additional $600 a month in premiums alone. Then, we paid increased healthcare costs until the month of September while we met out deductible.
I can't wait to see the math when we do our taxes. At that time, we should have a better figure what the ACA cost our middle class family. That may be a day that requires heavy drinking because I'm sure that figure is going to make me absolutely sick.
The middle class got the lies...and we also got f'd.
We sure did! The first clue should have been when the insurance companies were not kicking and screaming about ACA. They are laughing at us all the way to the bank. So, who really benefitted here? Does anyone know what the final number was to build the Obamacare website? More taxpayer waste SMH.
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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2014 14:32:13 GMT
I'm always left wondering in these threads:
A. If the Republicans posting feel that our healthcare system was hunky dory before the ACA was passed, and
B. If not, what plan would you have preferred to fix it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 15:16:53 GMT
I don't think anyone believed the healthcare system was great the way it was.
BUT, there were many options laid out by Republicans that didn't make it into the ACA. Why? Because they weren't invited to the table.
Some of the provisions in the ACA are good. Some are not. But we never really got the chance to see which was which because it was rammed through without discussion. Perhaps some of the bad ideas could have been pointed out and improved.
In my mind, the biggest problem with the ACA is the enormity of it. Too much all at one time and we get problem after problem. Why not break it up into smaller chunks and implement a little at a time? It would give more time to see potential consequences and iron out the wrinkles. And for heaven's sake, stop favoring some groups of people over others. It should apply equally to all Americans, regardless of union membership, or not at all.
Not only that, but how often are huge government-run programs really efficient and successful? The bigger the bureacracy, the more fraud potential. The bigger the bureacracy, the more costly to the US taxpayer. Did anyone really think the ACA would break that mold and be affordable to the middle class?
Open up interstate competition. As it is now, there are few options that are affordable. Do away with the ridiculous requirements that people won't need and won't use. When something doesn't work, get rid of it. And don't lie to the American people about it.
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Post by blondiec47 on Nov 12, 2014 15:24:09 GMT
I don't think anyone believed the healthcare system was great the way it was. BUT, there were many options laid out by Republicans that didn't make it into the ACA. Why? Because they weren't invited to the table. Some of the provisions in the ACA are good. Some are not. But we never really got the chance to see which was which because it was rammed through without discussion. Perhaps some of the bad ideas could have been pointed out and improved. In my mind, the biggest problem with the ACA is the enormity of it. Too much all at one time and we get problem after problem. Why not break it up into smaller chunks and implement a little at a time? It would give more time to see potential consequences and iron out the wrinkles. And for heaven's sake, stop favoring some groups of people over others. It should apply equally to all Americans, regardless of union membership, or not at all. Not only that, but how often are huge government-run programs really efficient and successful? The bigger the bureacracy, the more fraud potential. The bigger the bureacracy, the more costly to the US taxpayer. Did anyone really think the ACA would break that mold and be affordable to the middle class? Open up interstate competition. As it is now, there are few options that are affordable. Do away with the ridiculous requirements that people won't need and won't use. When something doesn't work, get rid of it. And don't lie to the American people about it. I agree with this
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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2014 15:31:43 GMT
Ok, but in your perfect world, what would have happened instead of the ACA? All we get from the right is a litany of things wrong with ACA without any concrete alternative ideas.
I don't love the ACA but it's worth pointing out that many of its key features first appeared in a Republican healthcare reform bill in 1993.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 16:15:30 GMT
Ok, but in your perfect world, what would have happened instead of the ACA? All we get from the right is a litany of things wrong with ACA without any concrete alternative ideas. I don't love the ACA but it's worth pointing out that many of its key features first appeared in a Republican healthcare reform bill in 1993. Who said anything about a perfect world. I gave some concrete alternative ideas. Break it up into smaller chunks. Allow interstate competition. Allow consumers to choose what coverage they need and can afford. Don't favor one group over another. Be truthful so we can evalute the merits of the law. Do you have any you'd like to add, since you don't love the law either? ETA: I think it's also worth pointing out that the Republican-sponsored healthcare reform bill from 1993 was not endorsed by the majority of Republicans in Congress. In fact, it never came up for a vote because the bill's primary sponsor, John Chafee, realized it wouldn't pass. To give the impression that this bill had the support of most Republicans or to even brand it a Republican bill is a little misleading.
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Post by BeckyTech on Nov 12, 2014 16:20:36 GMT
I'm always left wondering in these threads: A. If the Republicans posting feel that our healthcare system was hunky dory before the ACA was passed, and B. If not, what plan would you have preferred to fix it? There were at least a dozen threads on Two Peas covering these very topics. Many of us followed the ACA press as it was happening and were discussing it in detail. I guess you didn't read them. Ok, but in your perfect world, what would have happened instead of the ACA? All we get from the right is a litany of things wrong with ACA without any concrete alternative ideas. I don't love the ACA but it's worth pointing out that many of its key features first appeared in a Republican healthcare reform bill in 1993. There have been many concrete alternative ideas. They get very little press. Also, many of these "key features" had many detractors at the time with cogent arguments against and was never something that received wide-spread support.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 17:09:04 GMT
To compare Great Britan or Canada and their medical system that works well for them cannot be compared to the US and our system.
Canada's numbers have been mentioned before...so I won't do those again.
Great Britan has a population of roughly 64 million. The USA has 319 million.
Great Britan is 243,610 square kilometers in area. The USA is 9,372,610 square kilometers in area.
Continuing to compare either GB or Canada to the US is like comparing apples to bicycles.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 17:12:15 GMT
Here's something else that should be considered to fix our medical system. Eliminate the crazy costs of things. I'm all for compensating doctors for their education and time. I'm all for paying researchers to come up with new formulas of drugs. But the costs, handed down to the patient is out of control. ACA did NOTHING to fix these skyrocketing costs.
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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2014 17:15:44 GMT
I'm always left wondering in these threads: A. If the Republicans posting feel that our healthcare system was hunky dory before the ACA was passed, and B. If not, what plan would you have preferred to fix it? There were at least a dozen threads on Two Peas covering these very topics. Many of us followed the ACA press as it was happening and were discussing it in detail. I guess you didn't read them. Ok, but in your perfect world, what would have happened instead of the ACA? All we get from the right is a litany of things wrong with ACA without any concrete alternative ideas. I don't love the ACA but it's worth pointing out that many of its key features first appeared in a Republican healthcare reform bill in 1993. There have been many concrete alternative ideas. They get very little press. Also, many of these "key features" had many detractors at the time with cogent arguments against and was never something that received wide-spread support. As I recall, most of the threads on this topic devolved into Obama sucks! This is socialism! He's destroying the country! pretty quickly. So I generally avoided them. Give me the recap. What, specifically, were some of the more promising idea at that time? Allowing interstate competition and letting people choose bits and pieces don't solve the fundamental problem of people going without necessary medical care in this country. Of course the ACA doesn't, either. It's really a bad compromise with conservatives who wouldn't hear of a single payer plan. And IMO a SPP is the only way to make sure Americans have necessary medical care.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 17:27:29 GMT
There were at least a dozen threads on Two Peas covering these very topics. Many of us followed the ACA press as it was happening and were discussing it in detail. I guess you didn't read them. There have been many concrete alternative ideas. They get very little press. Also, many of these "key features" had many detractors at the time with cogent arguments against and was never something that received wide-spread support. As I recall, most of the threads on this topic devolved into Obama sucks! This is socialism! He's destroying the country! pretty quickly. So I generally avoided them. Give me the recap. What, specifically, were some of the more promising idea at that time? Allowing interstate competition and letting people choose bits and pieces don't solve the fundamental problem of people going without necessary medical care in this country. Of course the ACA doesn't, either. It's really a bad compromise with conservatives who wouldn't hear of a single payer plan. And IMO a SPP is the only way to make sure Americans have necessary medical care. Many of "those people" going without "necessary medical care" had no trouble always taking great vacations, always having the latest and greatest electronics. Many of "those people going without necessary medical care" just didn't want to pay for it. For my family, we always budgeted having medical coverage for our family, even when my DH was out of work and we had to pay out the nose through COBRA.
You can't force people to make good, responsible choices in this country. You can try to force them and tax them if they don't have coverage, but until that tax hurts them, they're still going to spend their money elsewhere vs. being responsible and paying for providing coverage for their family.
Do "those people" make up 100% of those without coverage? Absolutely not. There were elderly having to decide whether to eat or pay for medicine...that's not right and those people do need help. But to eff up the entire system to "help" many people who simply chose not to help themselves was wrong and not a fix.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 17:44:33 GMT
You are vile and disgusting. You don't have a clue about what poor people go through. I can only hope that you get to experience some of the hardships these people suffer through. Your close-minded idiocy will never allow you to understand anything you don't experience. I'm done reading your posts and responding to you. You make me sick. You have no idea what my life experiences have caused me to go through or any of the hardships I've had to go through as an individual, or as a family. You also have no idea the idiocy I've seen personally that caused me to type what I did.
I'm not putting a blanket on everyone and I know there are people that are truly in need of assistance.
But feel free to stop reading my posts. Clearly, I'm crushed.
Waiting for more venom from Liz in 5...4...3...2...1...
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Nov 12, 2014 17:57:43 GMT
Block Liz, Jenny. It makes the peaing experience so much more pleasant.
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Post by traceys on Nov 12, 2014 18:07:03 GMT
Whether the ACA was a bad idea or the greatest thing since sliced bread is not really the issue here, IMO. Do we hold people accountable for openly admitting that they lied to the American people just so they could get their way? Or is it all good as long as you're on the "winning" side? If this is acceptable now...do what you want by any means possible....I just want to know so that we are all on the same page. If it's not acceptable, what should the response be?
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Post by Skypea on Nov 12, 2014 18:26:12 GMT
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! I once asked Enough a question on the old Two Peas board that frustrated her to no end because she couldn't up with an answer. Enough was going on and on about how President Obama was lying about the ACA. So I asked her what was The President's end game. How was lying about The ACA going to benefit the President personally. The only thing Enough had to support rant that the President lied was some old video where the President talked about a single payer system. So Enough was convinced that was the reason the President lied about the ACA. He wants a single payer system. Maybe. But my guess it has to do with the first sentence of my post. Anyone who knows anything about insurance knows some of what was promised was not going to happen to every single citizen who had insurance. The vast majority would benefit from the ACA. Not necessarily within the first couple of months or even the first year because there are a lot of moving parts but ultimately they would benefit. This being the case I wondered why the White House said what they said and why didn't they didn't spell out the fine print of the bill. But you see this guy and The White House knew their audience. They knew when it comes to some things the American people can be pretty stupid. Something needed to be done about health care. Millions of people didn't have insurance or the money to pay for medical care. But to fix this would cause changes that would affect most if not all the American public. I have found that a lot of people are ok with change as long as it doesn't affect them directly. They refuse to look at the big picture. All one has to do is read some of the posts on this board to know that to be a fact. Politicians know this to be true. So they sugar coat what they are trying to do instead just putting it out there good with the bad. I don't agree with how The White House sold the ACA. But I understand why they did it. Something had to be done that would involve change for millions of Americans and almost from the very beginning the changes were under attack from the Republicans with their deliberate misinformation campaign. So they said what they said. Calling the American voter stupid is a bit harsh but there is a lot of truth in that sentiment. On both sides in spite of what lynlam and skypea want you to believe. Now we are getting ready to start the second round of open enrollment. The passing of ACA has helped millions of Americans to obtain insurance that didn't have it before. And it's working. My sister is a minister and she was telling me about a lady in her congregation who now has insurance due to the ACA. She noticed a brown spot on her hand had turned black so she went to see her doctor, now that she has insurance, and found out that it was cancerous. If she hadn't had the insurance she more than likely wouldn't have seen about the spot until it was to late the whole time hoping it would go away since she have didn't have money to pay for treatment. Yes I agree some have yet to benefit from the changes generated by the ACA. And to be honest some may never benefit. Especially since the ACA is still under attack and the things that could be fixed are not being addressed as the Republicans are still hell bent on getting rid of the ACA without offering a replacement. That is a perfect example of "Stupid American Citizens" How can someone support repealing the ACA without knowing what is going to replace it. Yes I know the Republicans have "floated" some options but they have also left big gaping holes that would affect millions of Americans that now have insurance. Maybe if the American public would pay more attention and get ALL the facts before they support something or not to support something the politicians would be forced to provide ALL the facts first time around. Force the politicians to answer questions honestly. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. the WH did KNOW a large % of their audience - like you would believe and support their lies. more likely Enough wasn't going to waste her time posting more to you. and neither will I.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 18:28:49 GMT
Whether the ACA was a bad idea or the greatest thing since sliced bread is not really the issue here, IMO. Do we hold people accountable for openly admitting that they lied to the American people just so they could get their way? Or is it all good as long as you're on the "winning" side? If this is acceptable now...do what you want by any means possible....I just want to know so that we are all on the same page. If it's not acceptable, what should the response be? You're absolutely right. We're being dragged off topic into fighting mode.
The issue with this comment and the issue at hand is...this administration knowingly lied to America. And some think this is so normal and to be expected...and is okay. And others think that this kind of nonsense in DC needs to come to an end. Some feel the end (passage of ACA) justifies the means...but I can't help but wonder if they would feel the same if something they felt really, REALLY strongly about was handled in the same fashion, if they'd still be so okay about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 18:32:05 GMT
Interesting reading but
"Our elected leaders should rise to meet our expectations."
Why do you think there are so many attack ads and so very few issue ads? Attack ads that twist the facts. Maybe because politicians know these ads work. That a large percentage of voters don't do their homework and make their decisions based on the content of the ads? You want a good example of this? Look at the "No" on Prop 45 ads in CA.
Maybe the American voter is getting exactly what they deserve.
"Many Americans knew that the ACA would be anything but affordable"
Well that does happen when insurance companies have to insure EVERYONE and not pick and choose. So what would you suggest be done. Continue to deny these folks insurance? But let's not forget. We were already paying for these folks medical care when they showed up at the emergency room and had no money to pay for the medical care they received. Amazing how people tend to forget that.
"How often are hugh government- run programs really efficient and successful?"
So who would you suggest handle health care in the United States? Insurance companies? Hospitals and doctors? Wasn't that how it was being done before The ACA was enacted? How well did that work?
Or let the individual states handle it. How many states have elected not to expand Medicaid so the poor could access to health care coverage? Just what are these states doing to help these folks get medical that doesn't involve a trip to the emergency room?
"There have been many concrete alternative ideas. They get little press."
Maybe. However can you explain why the Republicans in the House keep postponing their alternative to The ACA? They have voted what 50 times to repeal the ACA which one would think would be a perfect time to roll out the replacement plan.
I know individual Republicans have "floated" their ideas for health care. But the key word here is floated and more than likely that is why they don't get much press.
However if the House meaning the Republicans majority would release their replacement plan for The ACA it would get plenty of press. So why haven't they?
"But, there many options laid out by the Republicans that didn't make it into The ACA. Why? Because they were not invited to the table."
Boy that is so not true. The Democrats took out provisions to make The Republicans happy and the Republicans choose NOT to sit at the table. I remember this because it pissed me off to no end that Democrats let the Republicans jerk them around like they did. Just like they did in this last election.
"Break it up into smaller Chunks"
Break what up into smaller chunks?
"Allow interstate competition"
It doesn't matter where one buys their insurance. How premiums are determined is not going to change. The key words in determing premiums are and will continue to be claims and coverage.
"Allow consumers to choose what coverage they need and can afford."
How do these folks know in advance what coverages they will need? Do they have a crystal ball so they can see into the future?
Maybe single men and old ladies should be able to op out of maternity coverage. But the remaining required coverages are pretty basic.
To allow folks to op out of certain coverages because they THINK they don't need them could prove to be problematic down the road.
Insurance is purchased for the worse case scenario. So unless one has that crystal ball....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 18:34:09 GMT
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! I once asked Enough a question on the old Two Peas board that frustrated her to no end because she couldn't up with an answer. Enough was going on and on about how President Obama was lying about the ACA. So I asked her what was The President's end game. How was lying about The ACA going to benefit the President personally. The only thing Enough had to support rant that the President lied was some old video where the President talked about a single payer system. So Enough was convinced that was the reason the President lied about the ACA. He wants a single payer system. Maybe. But my guess it has to do with the first sentence of my post. Anyone who knows anything about insurance knows some of what was promised was not going to happen to every single citizen who had insurance. The vast majority would benefit from the ACA. Not necessarily within the first couple of months or even the first year because there are a lot of moving parts but ultimately they would benefit. This being the case I wondered why the White House said what they said and why didn't they didn't spell out the fine print of the bill. But you see this guy and The White House knew their audience. They knew when it comes to some things the American people can be pretty stupid. Something needed to be done about health care. Millions of people didn't have insurance or the money to pay for medical care. But to fix this would cause changes that would affect most if not all the American public. I have found that a lot of people are ok with change as long as it doesn't affect them directly. They refuse to look at the big picture. All one has to do is read some of the posts on this board to know that to be a fact. Politicians know this to be true. So they sugar coat what they are trying to do instead just putting it out there good with the bad. I don't agree with how The White House sold the ACA. But I understand why they did it. Something had to be done that would involve change for millions of Americans and almost from the very beginning the changes were under attack from the Republicans with their deliberate misinformation campaign. So they said what they said. Calling the American voter stupid is a bit harsh but there is a lot of truth in that sentiment. On both sides in spite of what lynlam and skypea want you to believe. Now we are getting ready to start the second round of open enrollment. The passing of ACA has helped millions of Americans to obtain insurance that didn't have it before. And it's working. My sister is a minister and she was telling me about a lady in her congregation who now has insurance due to the ACA. She noticed a brown spot on her hand had turned black so she went to see her doctor, now that she has insurance, and found out that it was cancerous. If she hadn't had the insurance she more than likely wouldn't have seen about the spot until it was to late the whole time hoping it would go away since she have didn't have money to pay for treatment. Yes I agree some have yet to benefit from the changes generated by the ACA. And to be honest some may never benefit. Especially since the ACA is still under attack and the things that could be fixed are not being addressed as the Republicans are still hell bent on getting rid of the ACA without offering a replacement. That is a perfect example of "Stupid American Citizens" How can someone support repealing the ACA without knowing what is going to replace it. Yes I know the Republicans have "floated" some options but they have also left big gaping holes that would affect millions of Americans that now have insurance. Maybe if the American public would pay more attention and get ALL the facts before they support something or not to support something the politicians would be forced to provide ALL the facts first time around. Force the politicians to answer questions honestly. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. the WH did KNOW a large % of their audience - like you would believe and support their lies. more likely Enough wasn't going to waste her time posting more to you. and neither will I. Promise?
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Nov 12, 2014 18:44:04 GMT
Block Liz, Jenny. It makes the peaing experience so much more pleasant. 
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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2014 19:03:38 GMT
As I recall, most of the threads on this topic devolved into Obama sucks! This is socialism! He's destroying the country! pretty quickly. So I generally avoided them. Give me the recap. What, specifically, were some of the more promising idea at that time? Allowing interstate competition and letting people choose bits and pieces don't solve the fundamental problem of people going without necessary medical care in this country. Of course the ACA doesn't, either. It's really a bad compromise with conservatives who wouldn't hear of a single payer plan. And IMO a SPP is the only way to make sure Americans have necessary medical care. Many of "those people" going without "necessary medical care" had no trouble always taking great vacations, always having the latest and greatest electronics. Many of "those people going without necessary medical care" just didn't want to pay for it. For my family, we always budgeted having medical coverage for our family, even when my DH was out of work and we had to pay out the nose through COBRA.
You can't force people to make good, responsible choices in this country. You can try to force them and tax them if they don't have coverage, but until that tax hurts them, they're still going to spend their money elsewhere vs. being responsible and paying for providing coverage for their family.
Do "those people" make up 100% of
those without coverage? Absolutely not. There were elderly having to decide whether to eat or pay for medicine...that's not right and those people do need help. But to eff up the entire system to "help" many people who simply chose not to help themselves was wrong and not a fix.
Maybe we could choose to fix the system for everyone instead of blocking every attempt to fix it on the grounds that someone undeserving might benefit. Personally, I fee like the ACA is both parties' fault. The Democrats who let themselves be bullied into a crappy "compromise" and then lied about it and the Republicans who mulishly refused any discussion of reasonable alternatives.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Nov 12, 2014 19:11:04 GMT
Merge, why do you feel like the Republicans refused a reasonable discussion? IMO, there were many attempts at discussion that were rebuffed by Obama and the Dems because they knew they had the votes to pass whatever they wanted. Even now, when the voters have spoken about Obama's policies, he continues to thumb his nose at us all threatening to use "executive actions" to do whatever he wants.
And frankly I find the lying to be the worst offense. The lack of responsibility for our representatives failing to speak the truth and the passive acceptance of that by the people really sickens me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 19:13:30 GMT
Many of "those people" going without "necessary medical care" had no trouble always taking great vacations, always having the latest and greatest electronics. Many of "those people going without necessary medical care" just didn't want to pay for it. For my family, we always budgeted having medical coverage for our family, even when my DH was out of work and we had to pay out the nose through COBRA.
You can't force people to make good, responsible choices in this country. You can try to force them and tax them if they don't have coverage, but until that tax hurts them, they're still going to spend their money elsewhere vs. being responsible and paying for providing coverage for their family.
Do "those people" make up 100% of
those without coverage? Absolutely not. There were elderly having to decide whether to eat or pay for medicine...that's not right and those people do need help. But to eff up the entire system to "help" many people who simply chose not to help themselves was wrong and not a fix.
Maybe we could choose to fix the system for everyone instead of blocking every attempt to fix it on the grounds that someone undeserving might benefit. Personally, I fee like the ACA is both parties' fault. The Democrats who let themselves be bullied into a crappy "compromise" and then lied about it and the Republicans who mulishly refused any discussion of reasonable alternatives. But what's broken for everyone is the outrageous cost of health care...and the ACA did absolutely nothing to fix that. Now, the ACA simply redistributes the wealth of the working class to pay the outrageous medical costs that are outrageous for all.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 20:02:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 19:15:45 GMT
Block Liz, Jenny. It makes the peaing experience so much more pleasant.  I'm not at all worried. To have one of the most vile peas tell me how vile I am...it's really almost comical.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 12, 2014 19:42:11 GMT
Maybe we could choose to fix the system for everyone instead of blocking every attempt to fix it on the grounds that someone undeserving might benefit. Personally, I fee like the ACA is both parties' fault. The Democrats who let themselves be bullied into a crappy "compromise" and then lied about it and the Republicans who mulishly refused any discussion of reasonable alternatives. Who do you feel "bullied" Democrats? I think this comment is utterly disconnected to the reality of the ACA passage. The bullying was done by the White House against moderate Democrats who knew their constituents were against the bill. Ultimately a few kickback were even required to compel moderate Democrats and Independents to support the bill. The bill was passed without a single Republican vote. And it was the Democrats who refused to even meet with Republicans as they knew they didn't need their votes. When the bill passed, the House was held by the Democrats, and the Senate had a filibuster proof 60 votes (with the Independents caucusing with them).
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