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Post by sasha on Jan 24, 2021 15:08:14 GMT
I always thought the parents either knew or assumed that their son (Brock?) did it and decided they couldn't lose another kid and covered for him.
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,447
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Jan 24, 2021 15:18:41 GMT
You all realize her brother Burke was only 9 years old at the time of her death right???
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Post by pierkiss on Jan 24, 2021 15:38:10 GMT
You all realize her brother Burke was only 9 years old at the time of her death right??? Do you think 9 year olds are incapable of killing others?
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Post by summer on Jan 24, 2021 16:01:37 GMT
You all realize her brother Burke was only 9 years old at the time of her death right??? Burke was known to spread feces specifically in JonBenet’s bedroom. This abnormal behavior suggests that Burke not only had mental issues, but he also may have had jealousy issues towards his sister. Burke was easy to anger, and had struck JonBenet with a golf club after getting mad, leaving her with a scar on her face. This behavior shows that Burke was capable of being fatally violent with JonBenet. Burke’s response to questions in his investigative interview are very odd, and they don’t show any feelings of a typical child. Two weeks after the murder, Burke told investigators that he felt safe and didn’t worry that an intruder would come back for him. It is expected for a child to feel scared and unsafe after an intruder has kidnapped and murdered their sister. Most children would feel in extreme danger living in the house that their sister was murdered in. Burke’s casual feelings would be considered as very unusual, unless he knew that there was no intruder to blame for murdering his sister. This behavior again leads one to believe that JonBenet’s murder was not at the hands of an intruder, but rather someone in the house, and Burke’s mental and anger issues prove him to be capable.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jan 24, 2021 16:14:44 GMT
I've always thought the weird son did it and the family covered it up.
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Post by auntkelly on Jan 24, 2021 16:24:35 GMT
I also thought it was strange that the day Jonbenet was found Patsy put on the same clothes that she wore to their holiday party the night before. I would think that a wealthy woman would have more than one holiday party outfit. Is it possible that she never went to bed? Maybe they were up all night working on a cover story. Or maybe just Patsy. I agree. I always thought it was weird that Patsy woke up and put on the same Christmas sweater she had worn the night before. If I remember correctly, she said she went to sleep in her makeup and didn't reapply it in the morning. If that is all true, Patsy was going to get on a plane and fly to Atlanta in the sweater she wore the night before and in the makeup she had worn the night before. No shower. That doesn't sound like something a former beauty queen would do. Also if I remember correctly, both Jon and Patsy said that JonBenet was asleep when they came home from their friends' house on Christmas Eve. Jon carried JonBenet from the car and put her to bed w/out her ever waking up. However, the police officers found a half eaten bowl of pineapple on the breakfast table and at the autopsy they found pineapple in JonBenet's stomach. There is definitely evidence that points to the Ramsey family, but I also think there is evidence that points to an intruder. If the police hadn't let the Ramseys and their friends wander freely around a crime scene and if they had been open to all theories of who committed the crime, I think there might have been justice for JonBenet. As it is, we'll never know for sure.
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Post by miominmio on Jan 24, 2021 17:01:25 GMT
You all realize her brother Burke was only 9 years old at the time of her death right??? There was a case in Norway several years ago, where a couple of 5 yo’s killed another child.
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Post by Layce on Jan 24, 2021 18:40:22 GMT
I believe the Grand Jury was correct to vote to indict, yet the DA at the time refused. Isn't that unheard of? The DA not following through with Grand Jury conclusions? A better DA might have been more confident of conviction. He was either corrupt or inept, fighting against the evidence with all the power he had. Grand Jury articleI also think Lou Smit went out of his way to discount anything to do with family culpability in favor of miscellaneous evidence that could point to an intruder. As a professional, he probably should have recused himself from any investigation due to his close ties with the Ramseys even to the point that they pretty much underwrote Smit's expenses for his wife's illness (can't recall if the article said she, too, died of cancer). AND ANOTHER THING. I think Mrs. Ramsey was up all night, which would explain the messy make-up and same outfit from the day before. You think she was helping the intruder out? I suspect it took her some hours to stage the crime scene and write out a rambling ransom note. I remember that CBS documentary from a few years ago someone here mentioned. Like many of you, I think the scenario and evidence they laid out points to the brother, with the parent(s) covering up. But why. Why, why, why. Poor little girl.
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Post by pjaye on Jan 24, 2021 18:43:58 GMT
There was a case in Norway several years ago, where a couple of 5 yo’s killed another child. Under what circumstances? and did the parents try to cover it up with an elaborate plan that involved sexually penetrating their own child>? I don't think anyone disputes that there are occasions where one child can kill another, but the method used, the strength needed and then the parents staging a very elaborate cover up is what I have an issue with and don't believe would occur. To tie a nylon cord around her neck and then insert the handle of a paintbrush and twist it until it chokes her - I don't believe that is a child's way of thinking nor do I think a parent would do that to their child as a cover up.
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Post by miominmio on Jan 24, 2021 18:58:21 GMT
There was a case in Norway several years ago, where a couple of 5 yo’s killed another child. Under what circumstances? and did the parents try to cover it up with an elaborate plan that involved sexually penetrating their own child>? I don't think anyone disputes that there are occasions where one child can kill another, but the method used, the strength needed and then the parents staging a very elaborate cover up is what I have an issue with and don't believe would occur. To tie a nylon cord around her neck and then insert the handle of a paintbrush and twist it until it chokes her - I don't believe that is a child's way of thinking nor do I think a parent would do that to their child as a cover up. Did I say so? I responded to the poster who didn’t seem to believe that children can kill.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 22:45:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 19:01:51 GMT
I think the brother killed her accidentally in a fit of rage and the parents tried to cover it up and wrote the note. I have a harder time believing they did the other stuff, but anything is possible.
If it WAS an intruder, I think it had to be someone who was familiar with and very knowledgeable about the layout of the house. That was house too big and a rabbit warren of room for someone random to break in, find her room and get her out her door, down the stairs and into the tiny basement room etc AND write a long ass ransom note. UNLESS they were extremely familiar with the house. And even that seems far fetched.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,405
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jan 24, 2021 19:43:16 GMT
I think the creepy brother did it and the crazy mother covered for him.
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Post by rainangel on Jan 24, 2021 21:24:10 GMT
There was a case in Norway several years ago, where a couple of 5 yo’s killed another child. Under what circumstances? and did the parents try to cover it up with an elaborate plan that involved sexually penetrating their own child>? I don't think anyone disputes that there are occasions where one child can kill another, but the method used, the strength needed and then the parents staging a very elaborate cover up is what I have an issue with and don't believe would occur. To tie a nylon cord around her neck and then insert the handle of a paintbrush and twist it until it chokes her - I don't believe that is a child's way of thinking nor do I think a parent would do that to their child as a cover up. It seems to be important to you to find a precedent on children killing another child, where the parents covered it up. Chances are that in most of these cases the parents were successful of the cover-up, hence impossible for anyone to find the precedent you want. Judging by the research you have done into the JonBenét case, I am going to go ahead and assume you are i terested in true crime. As am I. And we both know there are some cases out there that absolutely boggels the goddamn mind as to what humans are capable of doing to each other. Children are no exception to being cruel. They are also capable of being MORE cruel than adults because of their immaturite and less developed sense of empathy. They are still in the learning stages of empathy. Take the case of Jamie Bulger. Two 10-year olds brutally torturing and killing a 2-year old. And parents instincts will always be to protect their children. Even if that means breaking the law. How many of us would be easily willing to surrender our 9-year old child to a life in the system if they could help it? Maybe John and Patsy thought the best thing for Burke would be to stay with them. And Burke SEEMS to be doing ok. You can focus on the effed up details of this case (because they are truly effed up), but I believe children are capable of horrible murders. And parents are capable of extreme measures to protect their children. Just because no-one can find you a similar case to prove to you both can happen at the same time, doesn't make it impossible.
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Post by refugeepea on Jan 24, 2021 21:33:09 GMT
I have no idea, I really don't think it was her brother. He was only nine years old when she died. The evidence found on her and what was done to her was horrific and there's unknown DNA. I wonder if they have went the route of doing familial (I think that's the term) genetic testing that's available through places like GEDmatch?
It's the ransom note that gets me though. It was very specific and three pages long!
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jan 24, 2021 21:51:47 GMT
I have no idea, I really don't think it was her brother. He was only nine years old when she died. The evidence found on her and what was done to her was horrific and there's unknown DNA. I wonder if they have went the route of doing familial (I think that's the term) genetic testing that's available through places like GEDmatch?
It's the ransom note that gets me though. It was very specific and three pages long!
Unfortunately the DNA is very limited it - it is just partial - I'm not sure there's enough for familial matching. I think at least one of the samples might also be combined from two different people.
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Post by jmad122 on Jan 24, 2021 22:19:15 GMT
I don’t know all the details, but would it be possible that the brother let in a friend of some sort? Maybe brother watched?
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Post by picotjo on Jan 25, 2021 2:12:53 GMT
I have followed this case for years. I don't believe the boy did it and the parents covered it up. If they committed a crime and got away with it would they have kept going on tv for years hoping someone might remember something that would help the police? If it were me, I would have quietly disappeared .
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Post by alexa11 on Jan 25, 2021 2:36:02 GMT
Another one in the son did it camp.
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Post by PeachStatePea on Jan 25, 2021 2:39:42 GMT
I read the book an FBI profiler wrote about this case and he believes an intruder killed JonBenet. He thinks it was a young man who was obsessed with her and had probably been in the house numerous times prior to the killing. The similarities to Patsy's way of speaking and the unusual ransom amount in the note were due to his familiarity with the family and from his snooping around.
I think if Burke had harmed JonBenet and her parents discovered it, they would've called 911, not staged an elaborate crime scene. I also think one of them would've eventually confessed under the intense scrutiny they were subjected to.
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Post by pjaye on Jan 25, 2021 3:26:45 GMT
It seems to be important to you to find a precedent on children killing another child, where the parents covered it up. Chances are that in most of these cases the parents were successful of the cover-up, hence impossible for anyone to find the precedent you want. Nope, a child being murdered in the home will always be high profile news and more especially if they think a sibling did it. Those things make headlines. The facts are it doesn't happen in this in real life, this is the stuff of fiction and TV shows. Take the case of Jamie Bulger. Two 10-year olds brutally torturing and killing a 2-year old Horrific in every possible way, but totally different, much older stronger boys, 2 of them and a victim much smaller than they were, also not related to their victim, no elaborate cover up by their parents and because they were kids, they did not know to hide evidence of their crimes so things were found like blood on their shoes, DNA evidence etc. If the Ramsay parents covered it up in that moment of distress when one child isn't dead yet, and the other is a monster, they think of planting DNA? scraping under her nails? Cleaning every aspect of their son, his clothes, shoes etc? What otherwise normal people turn into this in a split second? They don't. It's all well and good to have a theory, but the facts don't back any of it up. Read John Douglas' books, especially "The Crimes That Haunt Us", this isn't "my" theory that I have come up with, it's based on the opinions of actual experts who dealt with this murder. know all the details & have seen all the evidence for themselves (evidence that we'll probably never know about) and who also have extensive experience in investigating hundreds of other murders...and I think they know what they are talking about. When *I* say parents don't kill like this...that's not my personal opinion (because I don't have the personal knowledge to base it on), that the opinion of the John Douglas...and he does have the experience to say that.
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Post by rainangel on Jan 25, 2021 6:01:31 GMT
It seems to be important to you to find a precedent on children killing another child, where the parents covered it up. Chances are that in most of these cases the parents were successful of the cover-up, hence impossible for anyone to find the precedent you want. Nope, a child being murdered in the home will always be high profile news and more especially if they think a sibling did it. Those things make headlines. The facts are it doesn't happen in this in real life, this is the stuff of fiction and TV shows. Take the case of Jamie Bulger. Two 10-year olds brutally torturing and killing a 2-year old Horrific in every possible way, but totally different, much older stronger boys, 2 of them and a victim much smaller than they were, also not related to their victim, no elaborate cover up by their parents and because they were kids, they did not know to hide evidence of their crimes so things were found like blood on their shoes, DNA evidence etc. If the Ramsay parents covered it up in that moment of distress when one child isn't dead yet, and the other is a monster, they think of planting DNA? scraping under her nails? Cleaning every aspect of their son, his clothes, shoes etc? What otherwise normal people turn into this in a split second? They don't. It's all well and good to have a theory, but the facts don't back any of it up. Read John Douglas' books, especially "The Crimes That Haunt Us", this isn't "my" theory that I have come up with, it's based on the opinions of actual experts who dealt with this murder. know all the details & have seen all the evidence for themselves (evidence that we'll probably never know about) and who also have extensive experience in investigating hundreds of other murders...and I think they know what they are talking about. When *I* say parents don't kill like this...that's not my personal opinion (because I don't have the personal knowledge to base it on), that the opinion of the John Douglas...and he does have the experience to say that. We're just going have to agree to disagree. I believe truth is stranger than fiction, and you don't. But please stop telling me 'parents don't kill like this' because I never said they did. I believe the angry, emotionally unstable 9-year old did.
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Post by pjaye on Jan 25, 2021 6:05:42 GMT
I believe the angry, emotionally unstable 9-year old did. and the facts say otherwise. No 9yo commits the perfect murder.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,956
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Jan 25, 2021 13:08:20 GMT
I have no idea, I really don't think it was her brother. He was only nine years old when she died. The evidence found on her and what was done to her was horrific and there's unknown DNA. I wonder if they have went the route of doing familial (I think that's the term) genetic testing that's available through places like GEDmatch?
It's the ransom note that gets me though. It was very specific and three pages long!
Unfortunately the DNA is very limited it - it is just partial - I'm not sure there's enough for familial matching. I think at least one of the samples might also be combined from two different people. This was going to be my question as well. Sounded like a case for CeeCee Moore the genetic genealogist.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 25, 2021 13:43:49 GMT
Were there any other adults that were close to the family? Patsy having an affair with someone who might have personal info or had been there with her during the night while everyone else was sleeping?
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Post by workingclassdog on Jan 25, 2021 16:16:12 GMT
There is a new Hulu documentary on the case.. I haven't watched it yet but seems like there is some 'new' evidence.. Now that could just be a ploy to get viewers to watch.. but it is on my near 'to watch' shows in the next week or so. DD watched it and said it was really good.
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Post by ~summer~ on Jan 25, 2021 16:33:31 GMT
I know very little about this case but it’s been interesting to read this thread. That being said I’m going with an intruder who was close to the family. Maybe a business associate of dad - or someone who worked on house or a neighbor.
I really don’t think the parents would go to that extreme and cover up for the son in that manner.
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Post by merry27 on Jan 25, 2021 16:39:02 GMT
I have loved reading all of the replies and theories. I really hope this case is eventually solved.
Is anyone interested in starting a weekly true crime thread? We could talk about a different case each week. I would offer to start it but I’m a huge procrastinator- haha.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,956
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Jan 25, 2021 16:42:15 GMT
I have loved reading all of the replies and theories. I really hope this case is eventually solved. Is anyone interested in starting a weekly true crime thread? We could talk about a different case each week. I would offer to start it but I’m a huge procrastinator- haha. I'm interested. I'm addicted to true crime stories.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,405
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jan 25, 2021 17:15:29 GMT
I have loved reading all of the replies and theories. I really hope this case is eventually solved. Is anyone interested in starting a weekly true crime thread? We could talk about a different case each week. I would offer to start it but I’m a huge procrastinator- haha. I'm interested. I'm addicted to true crime stories. Me too.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jan 25, 2021 17:23:32 GMT
I think it was someone in that house, father, mother brother. I am quite certain that Patsy wrote the ransom note.
As far as dna under her nails and on her panties, she was at Christmas parties and around others all day long. The dna under her nails could have come from anyone who picked her up or played with her earlier in the day. The dna on the panties was trace and could have been from someone in the manufacturing and packaging process.
Patsy was a nut job. A Ramsey killed her.
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