|
Post by pjaye on Mar 17, 2021 16:24:49 GMT
I used to love Meryl Streep until I saw her giving a standing ovation for Roman Polanski I felt the same way about Kate Winslet, I was really shocked that she chose to be in a Woody Allen film in 2017 and disgusted when she said Even after she made that speech where she cried and said she regretted working with them...I'll never see her the same way again.
|
|
peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,938
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
|
Post by peppermintpatty on Mar 17, 2021 16:39:05 GMT
Pjaye, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this....why not? I think I've covered my reasoning quite well in my previous posts. It's 2021, the era of #metoo and I thought we all knew by now that women are not responsible for the sexual crimes that men commit. Mia was NOT involved in the abuse in anyway, so any discussion of her parenting skills or her "sanity" is irrelevant when we are discussing what he did That's how men have got away with it for so long and will continue to, as long as they can shift the focus away from what they did. When someone says "Mia abused another child (not clarifying with that means and hinting that it was also sexual) " or "Mia isn't exactly sane"...the focus shifts away from the man who sexually abused a 4yo and also groomed & has an ongoing sexual relationship with her sister. Every time this gets brought up and someone says "but Mia..." it's a win for him. Wow! This is what is wrong with the Metoo movement. How many times have we heard of a woman claiming some man attacked her only to find out that the allegations were fabricated? I'm by no means saying that this is true for all cases and I am not saying that this is true for this case but you forget that there are 3 sides to EVERY story, his, hers and the truth. To say that a woman is NEVER to blame is shortsighted at best. Women can be the aggressor just like men can be. Just because a man is physically larger than a woman doesn't mean that he will always be the aggressor. I think that while the metoo movement has helped in so many ways, it has hurt numerous reputations with absolutely no evidence. Just assuming that the man is always in the wrong is so wrong in my book. If we believe one over the other, then we are doing both parties a disservice because we don't know what the real truth is and it isn't our place to know.
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Mar 17, 2021 16:59:00 GMT
I think I've covered my reasoning quite well in my previous posts. It's 2021, the era of #metoo and I thought we all knew by now that women are not responsible for the sexual crimes that men commit. Mia was NOT involved in the abuse in anyway, so any discussion of her parenting skills or her "sanity" is irrelevant when we are discussing what he did That's how men have got away with it for so long and will continue to, as long as they can shift the focus away from what they did. When someone says "Mia abused another child (not clarifying with that means and hinting that it was also sexual) " or "Mia isn't exactly sane"...the focus shifts away from the man who sexually abused a 4yo and also groomed & has an ongoing sexual relationship with her sister. Every time this gets brought up and someone says "but Mia..." it's a win for him. Wow! This is what is wrong with the Metoo movement. How many times have we heard of a woman claiming some man attacked her only to find out that the allegations were fabricated? I'm by no means saying that this is true for all cases and I am not saying that this is true for this case but you forget that there are 3 sides to EVERY story, his, hers and the truth. To say that a woman is NEVER to blame is shortsighted at best. Women can be the aggressor just like men can be. Just because a man is physically larger than a woman doesn't mean that he will always be the aggressor. I think that while the metoo movement has helped in so many ways, it has hurt numerous reputations with absolutely no evidence. Just assuming that the man is always in the wrong is so wrong in my book. If we believe one over the other, then we are doing both parties a disservice because we don't know what the real truth is and it isn't our place to know. I don’t automatically believe anybody. People lie-frequently, and for different reasons. Now, in Allen’s case, there seems to be a fair amount of evidence that he is a sleazy, abusive peckerhead. But as a general rule, I prefer that an investigation be done before stones are cast. Governor Cuomo, for example, is quite likely a dirty old man-for starters. But NY is very properly doing investigations of the allegations, and that is the smart thing to do.
|
|
|
Post by pjaye on Mar 17, 2021 17:22:51 GMT
Wow! This is what is wrong with the Metoo movement. How many times have we heard of a woman claiming some man attacked her only to find out that the allegations were fabricated? I'm by no means saying that this is true for all cases and I am not saying that this is true for this case but you forget that there are 3 sides to EVERY story, his, hers and the truth. To say that a woman is NEVER to blame is shortsighted at best. Women can be the aggressor just like men can be. Just because a man is physically larger than a woman doesn't mean that he will always be the aggressor. I think that while the metoo movement has helped in so many ways, it has hurt numerous reputations with absolutely no evidence. Just assuming that the man is always in the wrong is so wrong in my book. If we believe one over the other, then we are doing both parties a disservice because we don't know what the real truth is and it isn't our place to know. Good grief, what are you even talking about here? This makes no sense on it's own and even less sense (if that's possible) in response to what I said.
|
|
|
Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 17, 2021 18:55:03 GMT
I started watching it this morning. I read in an interview with Amy Ziering (director / producer) that the series goes beyond this case. It begins to examine appreciation of artists generating quality work or ideas while being awful people. Applicable to other fields too. As far as Woody Allen goes, I don't like his films. I understand his humor, I just don't like it. And the Soon-Yi Previn affair grosses me out. I am not sure I've ever seen anything Mia is in (maybe Rosemary's Baby? Is that her?). I really think WA is gross (he's another Roman Polanski for me) and I am kind of surprised he seems to get a "pass" by so many actors/actresses who will still work for him/work on a movie with him. (I'm not even sure if he's actively making films anymore either - seems the most recent one I remember was with Scarlett Johannson, maybe?). I do believe Dylan and found her story credible and truthful. I think Mia was trying to get her children to safety away from a super powerful (gross) partner/husband.
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on Mar 17, 2021 20:56:55 GMT
Pjaye, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this....why not? I think I've covered my reasoning quite well in my previous posts. It's 2021, the era of #metoo and I thought we all knew by now that women are not responsible for the sexual crimes that men commit. Mia was NOT involved in the abuse in anyway, so any discussion of her parenting skills or her "sanity" is irrelevant when we are discussing what he did That's how men have got away with it for so long and will continue to, as long as they can shift the focus away from what they did. When someone says "Mia abused another child (not clarifying with that means and hinting that it was also sexual) " or "Mia isn't exactly sane"...the focus shifts away from the man who sexually abused a 4yo and also groomed & has an ongoing sexual relationship with her sister. Every time this gets brought up and someone says "but Mia..." it's a win for him. So well said, and I 100 percent agree. I will add that I’m disgusted by all the actors fawning over him. He is despicable. in addition, Moses should limit his comments to himself, as he didn’t experience her life.
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on Mar 17, 2021 21:14:50 GMT
I think I've covered my reasoning quite well in my previous posts. It's 2021, the era of #metoo and I thought we all knew by now that women are not responsible for the sexual crimes that men commit. Mia was NOT involved in the abuse in anyway, so any discussion of her parenting skills or her "sanity" is irrelevant when we are discussing what he did That's how men have got away with it for so long and will continue to, as long as they can shift the focus away from what they did. When someone says "Mia abused another child (not clarifying with that means and hinting that it was also sexual) " or "Mia isn't exactly sane"...the focus shifts away from the man who sexually abused a 4yo and also groomed & has an ongoing sexual relationship with her sister. Every time this gets brought up and someone says "but Mia..." it's a win for him. Wow! This is what is wrong with the Metoo movement. How many times have we heard of a woman claiming some man attacked her only to find out that the allegations were fabricated? I'm by no means saying that this is true for all cases and I am not saying that this is true for this case but you forget that there are 3 sides to EVERY story, his, hers and the truth. To say that a woman is NEVER to blame is shortsighted at best. Women can be the aggressor just like men can be. Just because a man is physically larger than a woman doesn't mean that he will always be the aggressor. I think that while the metoo movement has helped in so many ways, it has hurt numerous reputations with absolutely no evidence. Just assuming that the man is always in the wrong is so wrong in my book. If we believe one over the other, then we are doing both parties a disservice because we don't know what the real truth is and it isn't our place to know. What I know to be true is that when a child says s/he has been touched inappropriately, you believe them.
|
|
|
Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 18, 2021 1:21:05 GMT
Trailer released for the four part docuseries. Will you be watching? Just wondering why is this coming out now? Was more uncovered or come to light?
|
|
|
Post by birukitty on Mar 18, 2021 7:20:49 GMT
I watched each week as a new episode would appear and finished up the series the other night. I think it's a very important documentary that's well worth watching. Before this I heard bits and pieces in the news (in the 80's etc.) as this was going on but I didn't pay much attention to it. I'd always thought that Woody Allen was guilty and believed Dylan mostly because of his affair with his step daughter and later marriage. I can't stand Woody Allen and don't like his movies. This documentary goes into the case but as other posters have mentioned it is about so much more.
The criminal case in Connecticut at the time ended with probable cause to convict Woody but it would have meant that 8 year old Dylan would have had to face her abuser in jail and would have had to be on the witness stand. She'd already spent over 2 years being drilled over and over again (more than 7 times) by psychiatrists and her story never changed (most child victims are interviewed only once for the mental health of the child). Because of her fragile state the DA in Connecticut at that time decided it would be best for Dylan's health not to put her through a trial. That is the only reason Woody Allen wasn't arrested and put on trial-other wise he would have been!
For those on this thread still not quite believing in Mia's innocence as a parent or in Dylan I urge you to watch this documentary. At least start watching it. You can always stop if it gets to be too much for you, right? But I believe it is important to know the truth. Mia Farrow did the very best she could as a mother and I will always admire her. Dylan isn't 100% healed as you will see in the documentary. It still effects her to this day.
|
|
|
Post by gillyp on Mar 18, 2021 10:04:06 GMT
|
|
|
Post by questioning on Mar 21, 2021 22:48:22 GMT
I watched each week as a new episode would appear and finished up the series the other night. I think it's a very important documentary that's well worth watching. Before this I heard bits and pieces in the news (in the 80's etc.) as this was going on but I didn't pay much attention to it. I'd always thought that Woody Allen was guilty and believed Dylan mostly because of his affair with his step daughter and later marriage. I can't stand Woody Allen and don't like his movies. This documentary goes into the case but as other posters have mentioned it is about so much more. The criminal case in Connecticut at the time ended with probable cause to convict Woody but it would have meant that 8 year old Dylan would have had to face her abuser in jail and would have had to be on the witness stand. She'd already spent over 2 years being drilled over and over again (more than 7 times) by psychiatrists and her story never changed (most child victims are interviewed only once for the mental health of the child). Because of her fragile state the DA in Connecticut at that time decided it would be best for Dylan's health not to put her through a trial. That is the only reason Woody Allen wasn't arrested and put on trial-other wise he would have been! For those on this thread still not quite believing in Mia's innocence as a parent or in Dylan I urge you to watch this documentary. At least start watching it. You can always stop if it gets to be too much for you, right? But I believe it is important to know the truth. Mia Farrow did the very best she could as a mother and I will always admire her. Dylan isn't 100% healed as you will see in the documentary. It still effects her to this day. We're thinking along the same lines. I remember this in real time, but treated it like other celebrity news. since I wasn't a devotee I didn't follow along. The bits I saw led me to believe Mia had issues of her own. All that has changed after watching this documentary. There's a very rational and caring reason for her to adopt so many children. Her upbringing and income is not like most, and this is how sh can give back. Most of her children support and believe in her. It's very compelling how they play audio of Woody with Mia, and then his public statements. It was a sad example of those with money and media savvy being able to manipulate public perception and even law enforcement. Even if you don't care about Farrow and Allen, it is interesting because it's timely.
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 22, 2021 11:56:03 GMT
Wow! This is what is wrong with the Metoo movement. How many times have we heard of a woman claiming some man attacked her only to find out that the allegations were fabricated? I'm by no means saying that this is true for all cases and I am not saying that this is true for this case but you forget that there are 3 sides to EVERY story, his, hers and the truth. To say that a woman is NEVER to blame is shortsighted at best. Women can be the aggressor just like men can be. Just because a man is physically larger than a woman doesn't mean that he will always be the aggressor. I think that while the metoo movement has helped in so many ways, it has hurt numerous reputations with absolutely no evidence. Just assuming that the man is always in the wrong is so wrong in my book. If we believe one over the other, then we are doing both parties a disservice because we don't know what the real truth is and it isn't our place to know. What I know to be true is that when a child says s/he has been touched inappropriately, you believe them. What about the kids saying that Mia abused them? They don’t deserve to be listened to because it doesn’t fit the narrative?
|
|
|
Post by questioning on Mar 22, 2021 13:49:17 GMT
What I know to be true is that when a child says s/he has been touched inappropriately, you believe them. What about the kids saying that Mia abused them? They don’t deserve to be listened to because it doesn’t fit the narrative? Hmmm, it's only one kid, Moses, saying she abused them, but you make a good point. As far as this conversation goes his current statements differ greatly from what he reported at the time. Ronan/Satchel Farrow said Woody offered monetary incentives (tuition assistance, etc) for him to dispute Dylan's claims. It's probable he has done this with the other kids. Embarrassed Edit: Can't believe I didn't mention Soon Yi. That's a whole other thing, isn't it? Mia herself says she wnet into sort of a feral frenzy after discoveringtheir affair.
|
|
peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,864
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
|
Post by peabay on Mar 22, 2021 14:56:59 GMT
What about the kids saying that Mia abused them? They don’t deserve to be listened to because it doesn’t fit the narrative? Hmmm, it's only one kid, Moses, saying she abused them, but you make a good point. As far as this conversation goes his current statements differ greatly from what he reported at the time. Ronan/Satchel Farrow said Woody offered monetary incentives (tuition assistance, etc) for him to dispute Dylan's claims. It's probable he has done this with the other kids. Embarrassed Edit: Can't believe I didn't mention Soon Yi. That's a whole other thing, isn't it? Mia herself says she wnet into sort of a feral frenzy after discoveringtheir affair.Dear God, who wouldn't?!?!
|
|
|
Post by questioning on Mar 22, 2021 15:04:52 GMT
Hmmm, it's only one kid, Moses, saying she abused them, but you make a good point. As far as this conversation goes his current statements differ greatly from what he reported at the time. Ronan/Satchel Farrow said Woody offered monetary incentives (tuition assistance, etc) for him to dispute Dylan's claims. It's probable he has done this with the other kids. Embarrassed Edit: Can't believe I didn't mention Soon Yi. That's a whole other thing, isn't it? Mia herself says she wnet into sort of a feral frenzy after discoveringtheir affair.Dear God, who wouldn't?!?! Right?!!!! You made me laugh!
|
|
|
Post by auntkelly on Mar 22, 2021 15:07:52 GMT
What I know to be true is that when a child says s/he has been touched inappropriately, you believe them. What about the kids saying that Mia abused them? They don’t deserve to be listened to because it doesn’t fit the narrative? Assuming, for argument's sake, that Moses and Sunn Yi are telling the truth and that Mia Farrow was abusive to them, how does that impact the credibility of Dylan's story about what her father did to her? When Dylan was seven, she told her story over and over and never changed any significant facts or details, even when challenged by adults. There were two babysitters at the house at the time the sexual assault allegedly occurred. They claim Dylan went missing. The two babysitters and the other kids present searched all over the house looking for her and could not find her, which lends credibility to Dylan's story. (No one thought to look for her in the attic). The police sketch made at the time of the investigation shows there was a train in the attic, just as Dylan claimed. She is an adult now and tells the same story to this day. Even if I assume that Mia Farrow was abusive towards Sunn Yi and Moses, that doesn't make me doubt Dylan's story about her father. If seven year old Dylan had been coached by Farrow to make up a story about Woody Allen abusing her, I think Dylan would have cracked the first time an adult questioned the details of her story. Instead, she was rock solid on the details each time she told her story, which is hard for a seven year old to do, even when they are telling the truth. I don't see much motivation for Dylan to continue to lie about her story to this day. I can only imagine the book deal she would be offered if she recanted her story and said that her mother had coached her all those years' ago. She might even work her way back into her father's good graces and inherit some of his money someday.
|
|
|
Post by questioning on Mar 22, 2021 15:14:50 GMT
Dylan says he talked about her going to Europe and being in a movie while he abused her. This was such a strange thing to say to a small child. It made me wonder how many times he used that line on young actresses.
|
|
oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,062
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
|
Post by oh yvonne on Mar 22, 2021 17:36:48 GMT
What I know to be true is that when a child says s/he has been touched inappropriately, you believe them. What about the kids saying that Mia abused them? They don’t deserve to be listened to because it doesn’t fit the narrative? Moses was already caught lying about a bunch of things, the last part of the documentary shows it. He lied about the train not being in the attic upstairs. That, plus he originally stood by Mia. Now, years later he's <ed> changing his whole story. Woody has already been shown to try to bribe his kids. He tried to bribe Ronan by offering to pay his college tuition. (which he turned down). What has caused Moses to suddenly change his mind all these years later? He was the other kid Woody adopted beside Dylan. The guy is married now etc. I suspect he has an agenda here to change his story. And I read Soon-yi's rebuttal. She sounds like she has some real personal issues with Mia, going all the way back to resenting this 'white woman' for coming and adopting her. Honestly, I feel like Soon-Yi loved sticking it to Mia because she hated and resented her.
|
|
|
Post by sleepingbooty on Mar 22, 2021 17:44:31 GMT
Dylan says he talked about her going to Europe and being in a movie while he abused her. This was such a strange thing to say to a small child. It made me wonder how many times he used that line on young actresses. And Paris, of all places in Europe. He was romanticising and projecting his perverted view of the "relationship" on the child victim. Absolutely disgusting.
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 22, 2021 18:23:29 GMT
What about the kids saying that Mia abused them? They don’t deserve to be listened to because it doesn’t fit the narrative? Assuming, for argument's sake, that Moses and Sunn Yi are telling the truth and that Mia Farrow was abusive to them, how does that impact the credibility of Dylan's story about what her father did to her? When Dylan was seven, she told her story over and over and never changed any significant facts or details, even when challenged by adults. There were two babysitters at the house at the time the sexual assault allegedly occurred. They claim Dylan went missing. The two babysitters and the other kids present searched all over the house looking for her and could not find her, which lends credibility to Dylan's story. (No one thought to look for her in the attic). The police sketch made at the time of the investigation shows there was a train in the attic, just as Dylan claimed. She is an adult now and tells the same story to this day. Even if I assume that Mia Farrow was abusive towards Sunn Yi and Moses, that doesn't make me doubt Dylan's story about her father. If seven year old Dylan had been coached by Farrow to make up a story about Woody Allen abusing her, I think Dylan would have cracked the first time an adult questioned the details of her story. Instead, she was rock solid on the details each time she told her story, which is hard for a seven year old to do, even when they are telling the truth. I don't see much motivation for Dylan to continue to lie about her story to this day. I can only imagine the book deal she would be offered if she recanted her story and said that her mother had coached her all those years' ago. She might even work her way back into her father's good graces and inherit some of his money someday. I think that people are trying to make this a black and white/he's wrong/she's right situation and it isn't that simple. As I said in my first post on this thread, it seems like a very complicated family dynamic. Anyone who has been in that type of family or works with families like this knows that it is often very complex. And what they are all saying could be true per their memories and experiences. I'm just irritated with people saying that victims should be heard and believed, while trying to find any reason (including a documentary that seems to have the sole purpose of painting one side as being the truth) not to believe others that say they were also abused, although in a different way and by a mother instead of a father.
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 22, 2021 18:28:34 GMT
What about the kids saying that Mia abused them? They don’t deserve to be listened to because it doesn’t fit the narrative? Moses was already caught lying about a bunch of things, the last part of the documentary shows it. He lied about the train not being in the attic upstairs. That, plus he originally stood by Mia. Now, years later he's <ed> changing his whole story. Woody has already been shown to try to bribe his kids. He tried to bribe Ronan by offering to pay his college tuition. (which he turned down). What has caused Moses to suddenly change his mind all these years later? He was the other kid Woody adopted beside Dylan. The guy is married now etc. I suspect he has an agenda here to change his story. And I read Soon-yi's rebuttal. She sounds like she has some real personal issues with Mia, going all the way back to resenting this 'white woman' for coming and adopting her. Honestly, I feel like Soon-Yi loved sticking it to Mia because she hated and resented her. Could that be because she treated her horribly?
|
|
|
Post by questioning on Mar 22, 2021 18:30:58 GMT
iamkristinl16 I *think* I understand. There is some irony in my thoughts. Mia (via the doc and Ronan) now has very convincing publicity against Woody - the reverse of what happened 20 years ago. But then again, Soon Yi will always influence my opinion.
|
|
oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,062
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
|
Post by oh yvonne on Mar 22, 2021 19:06:15 GMT
Moses was already caught lying about a bunch of things, the last part of the documentary shows it. He lied about the train not being in the attic upstairs. That, plus he originally stood by Mia. Now, years later he's <ed> changing his whole story. Woody has already been shown to try to bribe his kids. He tried to bribe Ronan by offering to pay his college tuition. (which he turned down). What has caused Moses to suddenly change his mind all these years later? He was the other kid Woody adopted beside Dylan. The guy is married now etc. I suspect he has an agenda here to change his story. And I read Soon-yi's rebuttal. She sounds like she has some real personal issues with Mia, going all the way back to resenting this 'white woman' for coming and adopting her. Honestly, I feel like Soon-Yi loved sticking it to Mia because she hated and resented her. Could that be because she treated her horribly? after she slept with her <ed> acting stepdad? Yeah, maybe. But for years he vehemently defended Mia. Why change now? Do you believe a proven *adult* liar?
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on Mar 22, 2021 21:38:10 GMT
What I know to be true is that when a child says s/he has been touched inappropriately, you believe them. What about the kids saying that Mia abused them? They don’t deserve to be listened to because it doesn’t fit the narrative? I didn’t say that. But that is a separate issue, isn’t it.
|
|
|
Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 22, 2021 22:58:54 GMT
I finished the documentary this weekend.
I really would love to know why Moses recanted his original story and now claims his mother abused him. It doesn't sound like he and WA have much contact, but I could have missed that.
I thought I was going to cry when the prosecutor met with Dylan to explain why he didnt want to put her through a trial. I felt "finally, someone who is thinking of the well being of a child."
The Yale team shocked me - to destroy the notes and then to publish the report and "clearing" WA instead of allowing the POLICE who COMMISSIONED the report to make the call? Unbelieveable. So glad to see the judge in NY saw that the report had been "sanitized" from the notes that were destroyed. I wish the two women who interviewed Dylan NINE times had given interviews.
I also felt terrible for Paul Williams, who had received an award for his work, only to be fired from his job for not caving to pressure AND suing to get his job back. It takes balls to go back to a job that does that to you. I wish he had given an interview too.
I guess if Woody Allen destroyed the family over his relationship with Soon-Yi (which is why he claims Mia brought up Dylan's abuse - because she was a woman scorned), I guess it is good they are still together and have found support in each other. I was shocked they allowed them to adopt 2 children. I also thought it was really sad when Mia talked about how hard she worked to bond with Soon-Yi, who had been abandoned and adopted as an older child.
I thought Woody Allen was gross before and this documentary just solidified my thoughts. I appreciated the portion of the show about when can you separate the horrible artists from the art, and discussed Michael Jackson, etc.
|
|