oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,064
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Nov 23, 2021 22:24:01 GMT
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! Welp, there goes our annual family trek to take pics with Santa/American Girl Place store and a long dinner at Maggianos. No way in hell I'm going down there now. Thanks ahole criminals.
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Post by pixiechick on Nov 23, 2021 22:24:33 GMT
Yes, tougher sentences, but you have to catch these guys first. And quit letting them out on unbelievably low PR bonds while they await trial, only to go out and commit more crimes. Huge issue here with that - and a lot of finger pointing as to whose fault it is. Meanwhile crime rates continue to increase. Yes!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 25, 2024 17:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 22:28:19 GMT
This is also what happens when you don't enforce the law. Welcome to California, the shoplifters paradise where shoplifters can steal up to $950 before they can be charged with a felony! Shit, what the fuck did they think would happen with Proposition 47? Yep. And we don't "enforce the law" because we're trying to cut govt spending - which includes things like jails, courts, social workers, prisons, etc. People will mob/revolt when they see no future for themselves. Funny how other countries have far fewer incarcerated people and far less violent crime.
Ever wonder why that is? Pay me now or pay me later.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Nov 23, 2021 22:37:40 GMT
Yep. This is what happens in grossly unequal societies. Ever watch the rich/dignitaries in the developing world go to work/school w/their burly bodyguards, bullet-proof cars, behind barbed-wire checkpoints? Coming soon to a state near you. You can either make a more just society (they don't seem to have this issue in much of the rest of the developed world where the inequality isn't off the charts) or you can keep sh($tting on the hopeless. They'll eventually take matters into their own hands. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but this is not just an inequality issue. It’s also an issue of dereliction of duty. I mentioned Boudin earlier. There’s a very good reason why there’s plenty of backlash against him. When you have residents, businesses, workers saying, you know what, these policies are making conditions worse and crime rates keep spiking, then something is very wrong. Restorative justice is one thing, but when you’re constantly failing to prosecute criminals and repeat offenders, then what do you think will happen? The last time I was in SF, I couldn’t believe how much the city had deteriorated. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be out on those streets day or night. Re Breed’s and Boudin’s promises of accountability after the Union Square robberies, how come it took the burglaries of Saks and Louis Vuitton to do that? When other businesses and individuals were being robbed, I didn’t see this level of outrage from either of them. Walgreens fled the city because of constant theft. Did anyone hear Breed or Boudin lament that fact and promise accountability?
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,064
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Nov 23, 2021 22:51:28 GMT
Yep. This is what happens in grossly unequal societies. Ever watch the rich/dignitaries in the developing world go to work/school w/their burly bodyguards, bullet-proof cars, behind barbed-wire checkpoints? Coming soon to a state near you. You can either make a more just society (they don't seem to have this issue in much of the rest of the developed world where the inequality isn't off the charts) or you can keep sh($tting on the hopeless. They'll eventually take matters into their own hands. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but this is not just an inequality issue. It’s also an issue of dereliction of duty. I mentioned Boudin earlier. There’s a very good reason why there’s plenty of backlash against him. When you have residents, businesses, workers saying, you know what, these policies are making conditions worse and crime rates keep spiking, then something is very wrong. Restorative justice is one thing, but when you’re constantly failing to prosecute criminals and repeat offenders, then what do you think will happen? The last time I was in SF, I couldn’t believe how much the city had deteriorated. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be out on those streets day or night. Re Breed’s and Boudin’s promises of accountability after the Union Square robberies, how come it took the burglaries of Saks and Louis Vuitton to do that? When other businesses and individuals were being robbed, I didn’t see this level of outrage from either of them. Walgreens fled the city because of constant theft. Did anyone hear Breed or Boudin lament that fact and promise accountability? omg thank you! Its the POOR PEOPLE who are the ones most victimized by all this. Robbing the taco man or looting the local family run 711 isn't as glamorous though. I'm disgusted over this.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 25, 2024 17:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 22:51:35 GMT
Restorative justice is one thing, but when you’re constantly failing to prosecute criminals and repeat offenders, then what do you think will happen? Completely agree. The problem is too many people just want to "get tough" and think that's the whole answer. It's not. Again, look at other countries' stats. We need a balanced approach. Not the 3-strikes bullshit (not taking into account other circumstances). Not the "no consequence" bullshit.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 23, 2021 23:11:08 GMT
Restorative justice is one thing, but when you’re constantly failing to prosecute criminals and repeat offenders, then what do you think will happen? Completely agree. The problem is too many people just want to "get tough" and think that's the whole answer. It's not. Again, look at other countries' stats. We need a balanced approach. Not the 3-strikes bullshit (not taking into account other circumstances). Not the "no consequence" bullshit. I'm sorry but your posts are utterly off the mark in San Francisco which is one of the cities people are discussing. I'll let those close to LA opine on it's relevance there. San Francisco's issues have NOTHING to do with cutting government spending or the politicians hating the poor or a get tough approach. They only rival Washington DC for spending per capita and spend 5x the national average. It has been a systematic move in the opposite direction for years. It's just escalating and escalating as politicians throw money at the problem - and yes methodically do more to make crime profitable. This is a completely normal response to the passing laws saying it's just fine to break car windows and steal valuables in them as long as it's not worth more than $1000. Particularly when reinforced by local politicians who support lax enforcement. Why anyone thought they'd stop with car windows is beyond me. Yes embolden criminals and they become more brazen.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 23, 2021 23:18:56 GMT
Restorative justice is one thing, but when you’re constantly failing to prosecute criminals and repeat offenders, then what do you think will happen? Completely agree. The problem is too many people just want to "get tough" and think that's the whole answer. It's not. Again, look at other countries' stats. We need a balanced approach. Not the 3-strikes bullshit (not taking into account other circumstances). Not the "no consequence" bullshit. Reading about organized retail crime is a bit confusing. I read this from NBC: “But city leaders are pushing back at that image after the release Monday of a midyear public safety report. Police data shows overall thefts are down 9 percent in the first six months of the year compared to the same period in 2020, when the city was on lockdown and many businesses closed during the onset of the pandemic. San Francisco Police Chief William Scott and Mayor London Breed acknowledged that while some crime is up, including aggravated assaults, homicides and incidents with guns, the overall numbers of violent and property crimes have fallen.” But also: “Criminal justice experts say if California officials agree that moving away from mass incarceration and toward decriminalization of low-level offenses is imperative, then it's important to go after the bosses and co-conspirators rather than focusing on the shoplifters themselves, who may be paid juveniles and homeless people, according to officials.” That makes sense to me, although the thieves should certainly be punished. And the CA governor’s statement: “ Governor Newsom Doubles Down on Ending Organized Retail Crime Rings Published: Nov 22, 2021 SACRAMENTO — In response to a recent increase in organized retail theft activities across the state, Governor Gavin Newsom has directed the California Highway Patrol (CHP) to increase their presence near major retail sites and announced a proposed increase in the 2022-2023 state budget to combat retail theft. “The level of organized retail theft we are seeing is simply unacceptable,” said Governor Newsom. “Businesses and customers should feel safe while doing their holiday shopping. That’s why California is substantially increasing CHP’s presence, especially near retail areas, and will be investing even more to aggressively curb retail crime. As a small business owner myself, I am resolved to holding these criminals accountable and protecting our local businesses.” Since the weekend’s string of robberies, the administration has coordinated with local mayors, police departments and retailers to address the increase in felony theft. The state has increased the California Highway Patrol presence in highly-trafficked shopping areas. Saturation patrols will continue through the holiday season to assist allied partners in the apprehension of criminals as well as to improve public safety. Addressing retail crime and safety has been a top priority for the Newsom Administration. In July, Governor Newsom joined law enforcement leaders and Big 13 mayors to reestablish CHP’s Organized Retail Crime Task Force. Since its inception, the Task Force has held 773 investigations, leading to the arrests of 240 individuals and over $18.9 million in stolen merchandise recovered. The Organized Retail Crime Task Force is responsible for collaborating with allied law enforcement agencies and district attorneys to identify and prosecute organized theft rings, recover lost merchandise, collaborate with the retail industry to reduce theft and improve safety for shoppers.” So it seems that they are going to go after the theft rings, which makes sense to me. I hope that they succeed. ETA: This piece is interesting. It talks about the structure of organized retail crime. We will all pay higher prices for it. www.khou.com/article/news/crime/stealing-to-sell-organized-retail-crime/285-8ee893a7-35b3-4e39-b47c-4ab172825ff9
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Post by katlady on Nov 24, 2021 0:12:08 GMT
De-criminalizing crime is not going to lower crime rates. It's just going to embolden criminals. All the above is my opinion based on my observations and experiences. YMMV. I think the answer is to try to PREVENT CRIME - by reaching these kids YOUNG and getting them OUT of the crime mindset YOUNG. Then, if they still are determined to engage in crime/violence I have NO ISSUE w/incarceration - in a way that is STILL trying to get them OUT of a crime mindset. It just gets harder as they get older. Did you ever think it could be all about the thrill of being able to do it and then getting away with it. I absolutely think this is part of it. Again, to me part of the solution is to get these kids excited about other things - things other than showing off to their friends/gangs. But that takes enormous resources. We'd rather wait for the crimes and then spend the money on jails, courts, prisons, etc. I agree with this. We need to reach them when they are young. We need better daycare programs, better school programs, things they will help keep the kids off the street and from falling into the hands of gangs. But people don’t want to vote on things that involve spending money for these kinds of programs. The young kids need guidance and help. It won’t stop crime, but it will keep some kids off the street.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 25, 2024 17:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 21:00:14 GMT
Yep. Up the security costs. "Best Buy shoppers can expect to find more high-value merchandise behind locked shelves and a larger security presence in certain stores. Along Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, California, a pair of private security companies are patrolling the ritzy shopping district in response to attempted smash-and-grab robberies at Louis Vuitton and Saks Fifth Avenue stores last weekend. Meanwhile, in San Francisco's Union Square, following a spate of thefts and vandalism Friday night at nearly a dozen stores, including Louis Vuitton, Burberry and Bloomingdale's, city officials announced traffic patterns near high-end retailers had been readjusted so that thieves can't easily park, commit a robbery and then speed off. "We will do what we need to do to put an end to this madness," San Francisco Police Chief William Scott told reporters. A lingering fear of coordinated large-scale robberies is rattling retailers, not only in cities like San Francisco, Los Angeles and Chicago, where videos of such thefts have gone viral, but in affluent suburbs not normally targeted involving tens of thousands of dollars worth of products." www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/retailers-ramp-security-cities-reroute-traffic-combat-organized-theft-rcna6476Maybe if companies would stop paying for laws that make the rich richer and the put the rest at each other's throats, maybe we'd go back to having a more civilized society. Maybe we'd have more billionaire and billionaire corp tax funds for jails, courts, prisons and social workers. Pay me now or pay me later.
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Post by ntsf on Nov 24, 2021 21:22:08 GMT
btw, george soros has nothing to do with the da in san francisco, the crime rate or whatever. part of the reason I think the smash and grab at stores has increased is due to the lack of reckless tourists who left stuff in their cars.. before the pandemic, there were about 25,000 auto break ins.. as tourists left, more garage and house break ins and more store grabs. crimes of opportunity.
auto break ins are increasing again, with more foolish tourists who leave stuff in their cars. somehow they ignore all the signs and think it will not happen to them. these are rings of criminals from out of town for the most part.
it is too easy to blame the da.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Nov 25, 2021 16:38:18 GMT
btw, george soros has nothing to do with the da in san francisco, the crime rate or whatever. part of the reason I think the smash and grab at stores has increased is due to the lack of reckless tourists who left stuff in their cars.. before the pandemic, there were about 25,000 auto break ins.. as tourists left, more garage and house break ins and more store grabs. crimes of opportunity. auto break ins are increasing again, with more foolish tourists who leave stuff in their cars. somehow they ignore all the signs and think it will not happen to them. these are rings of criminals from out of town for the most part. it is too easy to blame the da. "It is too easy to blame the DA." I’m replying to this post because I’m obviously the one who brought up the DA. People don’t elect DAs to be advocates of the criminals. That’s not their job. Their job is to uphold the laws and ensure public safety. If you want to be an advocate for them, then be a public defender. I’m not against justice reforms. What I’m against is zealotry that sacrifices the safety of people who actually live, work, own businesses, pay taxes in that city. And we’re not just talking about auto break-ins and home invasions here. How about the predominantly working class and ethnic areas like, let’s say Tenderloin, where residents and workers have to daily endure widespread open-air drug dealing, drug use, robberies and other crimes? If he truly cares about “ communities of color that are so disproportionately affected by crime,” then what has he done about public safety there? For the black people, the Latinos, the Asians who live there and have to somehow find a way to deal with the mayhem because calling 911 is useless when repeat offenders are released anyway by the DA's office? Does he prosecute these criminals who’ve made that area a cesspit of drugs and crime? He said that drug dealers were mostly brought to the US by human traffickers so they’re really victims themselves. Alrighty then. Then be a public defender for those drug dealers, not the DA who’s supposed to advocate for the actual victims of crimes. When a Dem herself initiated one of the recalls, in ultra-liberal SF, too, then maybe there’s enough people saying, you’re way too extreme with your policies, we need the law-and order people on our side, not the criminals’ side. As recalls go, yes, maybe this one will fail as well. But what it cannot do is silence the growing backlash. I sometimes wonder if people who think he’s doing a fine job be that understanding and receptive if they had to step out of their homes every day onto sidewalks awash with drug dealers and users. Or have to lose customers for their small businesses because the customers don’t feel safe anymore? Or be raped because a repeat offender wasn’t prosecuted earlier? And I don’t know if a DA exhorting the public to look at “the bigger picture” does anything to anyone who has been a victim of violent crime. What would be your guess on that one? People are not asking him to solve homelessness, poverty, substance abuse, etc. What people are saying to him is: Do Your Job. This is why I vehemently dislike the idea of electing prosecutors. They become politicians. Prosecutors should never be ideologues.
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Post by its me mg on Nov 25, 2021 17:45:21 GMT
I don’t know how they can stop this though. When you have 80 people storming a place, like the Nordstrom case, unless you have a dozen cops standing there at the time, you can’t stop them. I don’t know what the solution is. This is so crazy and scary. In San Diego a few years ago, thieves even drove a car into a store to rob the place. This was at an outdoor mall and they drove on a pedestrian walkway. Yes, tougher sentences, but you have to catch these guys first. The solution is simple. Stop this catch and release BS. Just like Yvonne said, our DA is bad and doesn't charge anyone with anything. My local police department posted that they got a call from an observant citizen who spotted someone stealing catalytic converters. Small beach town, one square mile, so the cops show up in like 45 seconds. Check the dudes out. They have tools for burglarly, stolen mail, all sortsa stuff. Arrested. Due to catch and release they were let go a few hours later. Who did the local police arrest again 6 hours later? The same damn criminals they just took in that morning. Such bullshit.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 25, 2024 17:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 17:48:19 GMT
The solution is simple. Stop this catch and release BS. Agreed. Let's spend MUCH MORE and keep people in custody and TEACH THEM other ways to be - that means MORE SPACE for criminals AND MORE RESOURCES for their time incarcerated. Let's not just throw them into the broken prison system where all they learn is how to crime better.
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Post by its me mg on Nov 25, 2021 17:53:51 GMT
The solution is simple. Stop this catch and release BS. Agreed. Let's spend MUCH MORE and keep people in custody and TEACH THEM other ways to be - that means MORE SPACE for criminals AND MORE RESOURCES for their time incarcerated. Let's not just throw them into the broken prison system where all they learn is how to crime better. Let's keep them in jail until they see a judge and answer to their actions and, hell ... I dunno... maybe get a CONSEQUENCE? I might not be so likely to smash and grab if it's my third strike..... But if I know all I have to do is sign a piece of paper that says, "sure I'll go to court" and then just no-show with no consequences, you'll find me getting that iPad and joining my stupid friends as we mob a Best Buy.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 25, 2024 17:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 18:03:53 GMT
Let's keep them in jail until they see a judge and answer to their actions and, hell ... I dunno... maybe get a CONSEQUENCE? I'm fine w/them facing incarceration AFTER conviction. Before conviction, I won't talk about that because there's probably much more to that than I understand. If you want thme to be in jail BEFORE conviction, we should be spending A LOT MORE to expand jails AND to make them a place that reduces recidivism, not increases it.
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Post by its me mg on Nov 25, 2021 18:19:27 GMT
Let's keep them in jail until they see a judge and answer to their actions and, hell ... I dunno... maybe get a CONSEQUENCE? I'm fine w/them facing incarceration AFTER conviction. Before conviction, I won't talk about that because there's probably much more to that than I understand. If you want thme to be in jail BEFORE conviction, we should be spending A LOT MORE to expand jails AND to make them a place that reduces recidivism, not increases it. I agree with you 100%. Recidivism is a huge issue and the system is flawed, but as someone who lives in the middle of this smash-and-grab free for all nonsense I wouldn't be mad if you got locked up a couple days until a judge could see you and decide your consequences. It seems like with Gascon he will apologize for the inconvenience of your arrest and give your stolen merchandise back and high five you before you get released again.
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 26, 2021 14:38:23 GMT
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