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Post by Katiepotatie on Nov 28, 2021 6:47:34 GMT
Newberg, Oregon has made national headlines because of this. Their school board banned a whole slew of things…basically anything that might be controversial in any way. It started with Pride & Black Lives Matter symbols of inclusion and has now spread to a level of divisiveness ridiculous throughout the city. They fired the superintendent because he wouldn’t enforce their challenged and likely unconstitutional policies. I’m now helping with a recall effort to remove the chair and vice chair of the school board.
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luckyjune
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,687 
Location: In the rainy, rainy WA
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Post by luckyjune on Nov 28, 2021 8:16:14 GMT
When I taught middle school, I had a "Love is Love" sticker, complete with a rainbow background, hanging on my front board. It wasn't huge, but just big enough for students who were lgbtq+ or questioning to know they had an ally should they need to talk. It also let parents who were gay know I was someone with whom they could be open about their lives. I'm imagining those stickers are not allowed anymore...mostly due to the current climate and a jerk of a principal.
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Post by Merge on Nov 28, 2021 12:32:38 GMT
Thanks to everyone who has weighed in. I wish we could just use common sense about these things. Flags or symbols that uplift a marginalized group or people as a whole? Awesome. Flags or symbols that represent the current or former oppression of said groups? Not acceptable.
The problem, of course, is that white conservative Christians have decided that they are the new oppressed group, and that promoting anything other than white conservative Christianity is an insult to them.
This isn’t about a flag. It’s about the dominant group in our society systematically repressing anything that threatens their continued dominance. And it’s pathetic.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 8:57:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2021 14:17:08 GMT
The problem, of course, is that white conservative Christians have decided that they are the new oppressed group, Yes, the poor little dumplings. Only 65% of the US population and 88% of the US Congress. How sad they're so underrepresented in day-to-day life. While the unaffiliated (aka the "nones") are at 26% of the US population and have 0.2% representation.
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Post by elaine on Nov 28, 2021 15:45:01 GMT
Thanks to everyone who has weighed in. I wish we could just use common sense about these things. Flags or symbols that uplift a marginalized group or people as a whole? Awesome. Flags or symbols that represent the current or former oppression of said groups? Not acceptable. The problem, of course, is that white conservative Christians have decided that they are the new oppressed group, and that promoting anything other than white conservative Christianity is an insult to them. This isn’t about a flag. It’s about the dominant group in our society systematically repressing anything that threatens their continued dominance. And it’s pathetic. Sadly, I agree with all of this. |
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Post by melanell on Nov 28, 2021 15:57:59 GMT
I think this would be fine, so long as such a rule is made an official, written rule for all teachers & staff to follow---and enforced in the same manner for everyone. So no Irish flag on St. Paddy's Day, and no world flags in a social studies class, and no ever changing line up of holiday flags in the secretary's office, and so on and so forth. I get what you are saying. We had a similar issue at the HS a few years ago. No shirts with words or graphics, they were aiming at stopping drug related and violent images. Only some teachers went too far. They dress coded kids for Nike swooshes and Under Armour logos. We had a couple of teachers dress code kids for school spirit clothing. So long story short the school store didn’t sell a single article of clothing that year and neither did any club or sport. So while a ban was well intentioned it had long reaching consequences. That’s where that slippery slope comes into play. Ban one flag, shirt design, book, etc where does it end? (Emphasis in quote added by me.  ) Don't get me started.  One of the things that pains me between my education and that of my kids is that anything to do with religious holidays or religious teachings was removed from school. I learned so much about other cultures and religions when I was in school and that's just gone from their school. They may learn that two different people went to war over religious beliefs, without ever understanding what the different beliefs were. I don't advocate teaching a religion, but I firmly believe in teaching ABOUT them, which I believe to be something completely different. I could talk about this for a day and a half, though, so in order to not completely derail this thread which already has a very important topic of its own, I'll leave it at this. |
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Post by birukitty on Nov 28, 2021 16:59:59 GMT
Thanks to everyone who has weighed in. I wish we could just use common sense about these things. Flags or symbols that uplift a marginalized group or people as a whole? Awesome. Flags or symbols that represent the current or former oppression of said groups? Not acceptable. The problem, of course, is that white conservative Christians have decided that they are the new oppressed group, and that promoting anything other than white conservative Christianity is an insult to them. This isn’t about a flag. It’s about the dominant group in our society systematically repressing anything that threatens their continued dominance. And it’s pathetic. This 100%. Very well said. |
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
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Post by lizacreates on Nov 28, 2021 18:31:16 GMT
This is not really about the very narrow LGBTQ focus.
This is what we teach at American schools: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all persons are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” Inalienable rights. It’s either we believe in these truths or we do not. It’s either a principle that cannot be abrogated or it can. The teacher in this piece clearly understands those fundamentals, and that’s why he referred to the flag not as a symbol of inclusion of LGBTQ individuals, but rather as a “human rights statement.”
So, although the question of whether our schools should actively support inclusion of LGBTQ students is a vital one, even more important is the question, “Do we support human rights for everybody or do we not?” One way or another, whether now or later, schools will be forced to answer that question.
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Post by elaine on Nov 28, 2021 22:32:43 GMT
Can I just inject into the discussion that I am relieved that all teachers - including substitutes - in our district have to take an hour-long training on LGBTQ inclusion issues and that the district’s stance is one of unquestioned support - including pronoun and restroom/locker room usage.
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smginaz Suzy
Pearl Clutcher
Je suis desole.
Posts: 2,606
Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Nov 29, 2021 20:16:51 GMT
Can I just inject into the discussion that I am relieved that all teachers - including substitutes - in our district have to take an hour-long training on LGBTQ inclusion issues and that the district’s stance is one of unquestioned support - including pronoun and restroom/locker room usage. And dismal that one hour of training is the aspirational objective. One hour. |
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Post by elaine on Nov 29, 2021 20:25:58 GMT
Can I just inject into the discussion that I am relieved that all teachers - including substitutes - in our district have to take an hour-long training on LGBTQ inclusion issues and that the district’s stance is one of unquestioned support - including pronoun and restroom/locker room usage. And dismal that one hour of training is the aspirational objective. One hour. Along with school policies backing up that support. It isn’t simply sensitivity training. I just had a fairly traditional Home Ec teacher talk with me today about sending 3 students to the principal for teasing a non-binary classmate. Something appears to have worked in that case. |
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Post by Jen in NCal on Nov 29, 2021 20:31:51 GMT
I believe that the US flag should be the only one in classrooms. If you allow the Pride flag, then you have to allow everyone other groups's flag. Way too much chance for drama in the classrooms. What other groups use a flag as a symbol of welcome and inclusivity for a historically marginalized group? If you can name one, I'll be happy to hang it in my classroom. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that the pride flag is the moral or logical equivalent of a nazi or confederate flag for a certain group. Gonna start off by saying "Good for him for standing up for his beliefs." Like many have said, the district kind of cut off their nose to spite their face. I wonder how many subs those kids will have before the year is out. The Pride flag generally includes all subsets but there are multiple types of flags that could fall under the pride umbrella: - Rainbow - This is the typical one that used to be all-encompassing.
- Rainbow with POC stripes (black and brown stripes at top)
- Transgender
- Gender Queer
- Bisexual
- Gender Fluid
- Pansexual
- Nonbinary
- Lesbian/Lipstick Lesbian
- Demisexual
- Asexual
- Intersex
- Bigender
- Polyamory
- Lesbian/Double Female Rainbow\
- Double Male Rainbow
All of these have different variations.
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Post by Merge on Nov 29, 2021 20:37:11 GMT
What other groups use a flag as a symbol of welcome and inclusivity for a historically marginalized group? If you can name one, I'll be happy to hang it in my classroom. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that the pride flag is the moral or logical equivalent of a nazi or confederate flag for a certain group. Gonna start off by saying "Good for him for standing up for his beliefs." Like many have said, the district kind of cut off their nose to spite their face. I wonder how many subs those kids will have before the year is out. The Pride flag generally includes all subsets but there are multiple types of flags that could fall under the pride umbrella: - Rainbow - This is the typical one that used to be all-encompassing.
- Rainbow with POC stripes (black and brown stripes at top)
- Transgender
- Gender Queer
- Bisexual
- Gender Fluid
- Pansexual
- Nonbinary
- Lesbian/Lipstick Lesbian
- Demisexual
- Asexual
- Intersex
- Bigender
- Polyamory
- Lesbian/Double Female Rainbow\
- Double Male Rainbow
All of these have different variations.
OK. What's your point? |
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Post by Jen in NCal on Nov 29, 2021 22:33:37 GMT
Gonna start off by saying "Good for him for standing up for his beliefs." Like many have said, the district kind of cut off their nose to spite their face. I wonder how many subs those kids will have before the year is out. The Pride flag generally includes all subsets but there are multiple types of flags that could fall under the pride umbrella: - Rainbow - This is the typical one that used to be all-encompassing.
- Rainbow with POC stripes (black and brown stripes at top)
- Transgender
- Gender Queer
- Bisexual
- Gender Fluid
- Pansexual
- Nonbinary
- Lesbian/Lipstick Lesbian
- Demisexual
- Asexual
- Intersex
- Bigender
- Polyamory
- Lesbian/Double Female Rainbow\
- Double Male Rainbow
All of these have different variations.
OK. What's your point? Since you chose to only include part of what I quoted... My point is that if you allow one Pride flag you have to allow them all. While I personally don't have a problem with that and have a few of them in my room, as basketdiva said if you allow one, you have to allow them all. You found fault with that statement and asked for clarification on what other flags there might be. I provided that information. And then you also have to allow BLM, support for other POC, women's rights... Again, all things that I strongly support and would happily hang a poster or flag for. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 30, 2021 1:43:08 GMT
Since you chose to only include part of what I quoted... My point is that if you allow one Pride flag you have to allow them all. While I personally don't have a problem with that and have a few of them in my room, as basketdiva said if you allow one, you have to allow them all. You found fault with that statement and asked for clarification on what other flags there might be. I provided that information. And then you also have to allow BLM, support for other POC, women's rights... Again, all things that I strongly support and would happily hang a poster or flag for. I believe I quoted your post in its entirety. Maybe you left out something you meant to include? I’m. It seeing anything else. It’s simply not true that if you include one flag, you have to include all of them. We make value judgments about what is appropriate and inappropriate for a school setting all the time. No one says, Merge, if you include that African American spiritual in your concert, you also have to program a KKK chant. We can all agree that one is appropriate for school and one isn’t. In most of the cases where people object to a pride flag, it’s because they’re making a value judgment that support of anything other than traditional norms is wrong. They use the slippery slope argument to try to justify why the school should support their beliefs. But rational adults can make a clear distinction between support of a marginalized group and support of religious, political, illegal, and/or oppressive preferences. The problem is that human rights have inexplicably been politicized in this country. The rainbow flag and BLM flag should not be political. Neither should any of the flags for causes you name. I’d like to see us be rational adults here and stop politicizing people’s actual lives. And FWIW, my kids attended an extremely progressive school where any/every expression of sexuality and gender was celebrated. And there were also conservative clubs and Christian clubs and really any variety of thing you can name. Somehow all those things were accepted without anyone sliding down the slope of saying that abhorrent values must also be tolerated. |
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) 
One of the things that pains me between my education and that of my kids is that anything to do with religious holidays or religious teachings was removed from school.
