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Post by aj2hall on Jan 9, 2022 17:05:32 GMT
There have been a lot of comments, discussions and posts on the changing messaging and complaints that public health officials are moving the goal posts. This opinion explains really well why that is not happening. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/09/pandemic-goalposts-vaccinations-guidance-jerome-adams-surgeon-general/Jerome Adams was U.S. surgeon general from 2017 to 2021. He is a distinguished professor and director of health equity initiatives at Purdue University. With recent calls for a return to mask mandates, third (and fourth) shots, and changes in isolation and quarantine guidance, people have been asking whether public health officials are “moving the goal posts” in the covid-19 pandemic. The short answer is: No, they’re not. The end goal remains the same: a reopening of society that reasonably and equitably balances the risks of clinical vs. societal harm from the novel coronavirus. Much as the virus has changed form and presented new challenges, our fight against it has also needed to evolve. If we are going to apply a football metaphor to the pandemic, a better one would be this: As in football, the battle against covid requires a team effort. Our best plays? Get vaccinated, get boosted and wear masks. Since the coronavirus broke out in 2020, however, our team has barely managed to move the ball past midfield. We fell far behind against initial variants of the virus — strains that were less deadly than delta, or less contagious than omicron, or both. Now we are battling reinforcements that are stronger and more agile than the opponent we originally planned for — and we’re losing.For most of 2020, many of us thought that once fully vaccinated — which initially meant two doses of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, or one dose of Johnson & Johnson — our lives would return to pre-pandemic normal. Masks would come off, schools and workplaces would reopen, and we’d declare victory over covid. But then the delta variant arrived, and hospitals began once again filling with covid patients. That’s why no one is “moving the goal posts” by calling for boosters and more (and better) masks. Most experts predicted early on that herd immunity could be reached at somewhere between 80 and 90 percent of the population vaccinated. Some suggested it could be as low as 70 percent. But we’ve suffered from both poor luck and poor effort. A year after covid vaccinations become available in the United States, our vaccination rate sits at a dismal 62 percent — far from even the most optimistic estimates of herd immunity. And variants such as delta and omicron — both highly contagious and prone to cause breakthrough infections — push the threshold up further still, forcing scientists to amend the definition of “fully vaccinated.”
In football terms: We got lazy on defense. Omicron has proved so contagious that our country has shattered its own record for daily cases. The one bit of good news is that, due largely to the protection afforded by vaccinations, plus many who now have some immunity from previous surges and infections, we’ve seen some decoupling of cases and hospitalizations. Scientists are now saying we should pay less attention to case counts, which again — unfortunately — brings complaints about officials changing “the rules” to suit their narrative. Despite a decreasing fraction of cases being hospitalized, however the sheer number of new infections is still overwhelming health-care workers and hospital systems. Remember, a much bigger pool negates a smaller percentage. And to keep going with football metaphors: While some are focused on the end zone, those who’ve been caring for the infected since the pandemic started are barely able to hold our field position. There is some good news in the midst of the latest surge: Vaccines and boosters have been approved for more of the population, allowing us to move closer toward herd immunity. More rapid tests are in the works, which will help limit the infected from spreading the virus. High-quality masks are increasingly available. And new oral antivirals, along with monoclonal antibodies, should help many who get sick to recover. Unfortunately, covid isn’t done with us — not by a long shot. And, as in sports, our team isn’t likely to win if our players aren’t on the same page. If we hope to defeat not just omicron but also future variants, we must accept this reality, plan for the long haul and adapt to our evolving opponent. Our game plan must include vaccination, testing, treatment, masking, ventilation, improving overall health and, critically, a team effort to execute these practices. In sports, the most successful teams have coaches who communicate clearly and effectively, and players committed to following the game plan and to putting the team ahead of their individual desires. The new year is a great time for some introspection and a renewed commitment by all of us to execute better — otherwise the goal posts may keep appearing further and further away.
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Post by pixiechick on Jan 9, 2022 21:52:56 GMT
Much as the virus has changed form and presented new challenges, our fight against it has also needed to evolve. No one with a functioning brain disagrees with this. Our best plays? Get vaccinated, get boosted and wear masks. Everyone HERE agrees with this. Most experts predicted early on that herd immunity could be reached at somewhere between 80 and 90 percent of the population vaccinated. Some suggested it could be as low as 70 percent. But we’ve suffered from both poor luck and poor effort. A year after covid vaccinations become available in the United States, our vaccination rate sits at a dismal 62 percent — far from even the most optimistic estimates of herd immunity. This is where the goal posts WERE moved. And not because of science. We had reached the objective of 70 percent not to mention we've surpassed that and more than likely are nearing, if not at the high of 80-90. What changed our percentage reached, is the moving of the goal posts. They moved the goal posts by adding children to the expectation of vaccinations. If it was herd immunity to reach 70-80% without the children factored in, WE ARE THERE. Add the children in to get vaccines, but we're still at the number they needed to reach herd immunity. That's where they moved the goal posts. Can't justify mandating vaccines if the population has complied and reached the needed percentage.
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Post by chances on Jan 10, 2022 4:34:08 GMT
Much as the virus has changed form and presented new challenges, our fight against it has also needed to evolve. No one with a functioning brain disagrees with this. Our best plays? Get vaccinated, get boosted and wear masks. Everyone HERE agrees with this. Most experts predicted early on that herd immunity could be reached at somewhere between 80 and 90 percent of the population vaccinated. Some suggested it could be as low as 70 percent. But we’ve suffered from both poor luck and poor effort. A year after covid vaccinations become available in the United States, our vaccination rate sits at a dismal 62 percent — far from even the most optimistic estimates of herd immunity. This is where the goal posts WERE moved. And not because of science. We had reached the objective of 70 percent not to mention we've surpassed that and more than likely are nearing, if not at the high of 80-90. What changed our percentage reached, is the moving of the goal posts. They moved the goal posts by adding children to the expectation of vaccinations. If it was herd immunity to reach 70-80% without the children factored in, WE ARE THERE. Add the children in to get vaccines, but we're still at the number they needed to reach herd immunity. That's where they moved the goal posts. Can't justify mandating vaccines if the population has complied and reached the needed percentage. I have no idea where you’re getting 80-90%. Of which population? Children are part of the herd. They’re literally everywhere. Why wouldn’t they count in population counts?
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 10, 2022 5:22:54 GMT
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Post by pixiechick on Jan 10, 2022 15:15:48 GMT
No one with a functioning brain disagrees with this. Everyone HERE agrees with this. This is where the goal posts WERE moved. And not because of science. We had reached the objective of 70 percent not to mention we've surpassed that and more than likely are nearing, if not at the high of 80-90. What changed our percentage reached, is the moving of the goal posts. They moved the goal posts by adding children to the expectation of vaccinations. If it was herd immunity to reach 70-80% without the children factored in, WE ARE THERE. Add the children in to get vaccines, but we're still at the number they needed to reach herd immunity. That's where they moved the goal posts. Can't justify mandating vaccines if the population has complied and reached the needed percentage. I have no idea where you’re getting 80-90%. Of which population? Children are part of the herd. They’re literally everywhere. Why wouldn’t they count in population counts? I'm not objecting to adding children. I'm saying that the percentage needed was reached this past summer. Without the children. That was what we needed to reach herd immunity and we reached it and then some since then. That goal post WAS moved by adding children to the percentage of people in order to say that we haven't reached the goal needed. If we reached the goal NEEDED this past summer, then WE HAVE REACHED THE GOAL. To now say we haven't reached a goal that we already reached, is not honest and not based on science.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 10, 2022 15:59:11 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 10, 2022 22:04:25 GMT
I have no idea where you’re getting 80-90%. Of which population? Children are part of the herd. They’re literally everywhere. Why wouldn’t they count in population counts? I'm not objecting to adding children. I'm saying that the percentage needed was reached this past summer. Without the children. That was what we needed to reach herd immunity and we reached it and then some since then. That goal post WAS moved by adding children to the percentage of people in order to say that we haven't reached the goal needed. If we reached the goal NEEDED this past summer, then WE HAVE REACHED THE GOAL. To now say we haven't reached a goal that we already reached, is not honest and not based on science. No, we haven't reached the goal. As we already said, the US is only at 62% vaccinated. Biden's 4th of July goal was 70% of adults vaccinated because children under the age of 16 were yet not eligible. The herd immunity goal has always been 70-85% of the entire population and we're not there. None of this really matters because as covid, data and the situation evolved, herd immunity is no longer the goal. One of those evolving science and changing recommendations. As early as last spring, public health experts were moving away from herd immunity. www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/18/997461471/its-time-for-americas-fixation-with-herd-immunity-to-end-scientists-saywww.npr.org/2021/05/03/993205335/health-experts-disagree-on-whether-herd-immunity-can-be-achievedpublichealth.jhu.edu/2021/what-is-herd-immunity-and-how-can-we-achieve-it-with-covid-19
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Post by lucyg on Jan 10, 2022 23:29:18 GMT
I have no idea where you’re getting 80-90%. Of which population? Children are part of the herd. They’re literally everywhere. Why wouldn’t they count in population counts? I'm not objecting to adding children. I'm saying that the percentage needed was reached this past summer. Without the children. That was what we needed to reach herd immunity and we reached it and then some since then. That goal post WAS moved by adding children to the percentage of people in order to say that we haven't reached the goal needed. If we reached the goal NEEDED this past summer, then WE HAVE REACHED THE GOAL. To now say we haven't reached a goal that we already reached, is not honest and not based on science. Unbelievable, the crap you get worked up about. You’re mad because they want more people vaccinated and you think they’re only doing it so they can claim we haven’t reached our goal yet? That doesn’t even make sense in crazytown, let alone the real world. Do you ever actually listen to yourself?
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Post by pixiechick on Jan 11, 2022 1:25:52 GMT
I'm not objecting to adding children. I'm saying that the percentage needed was reached this past summer. Without the children. That was what we needed to reach herd immunity and we reached it and then some since then. That goal post WAS moved by adding children to the percentage of people in order to say that we haven't reached the goal needed. If we reached the goal NEEDED this past summer, then WE HAVE REACHED THE GOAL. To now say we haven't reached a goal that we already reached, is not honest and not based on science. Unbelievable, the crap you get worked up about. You’re mad because they want more people vaccinated and you think they’re only doing it so they can claim we haven’t reached our goal yet? That doesn’t even make sense in crazytown, let alone the real world. Do you ever actually listen to yourself? I don't agree with a mandate. Can't justify mandating vaccines if the population has complied and reached the needed percentage. Which they have. That's not following the science. That's manipulation.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 11, 2022 1:41:09 GMT
I don't care how you feel about mandates.
How many times do we need to repeat this? Your "facts" are wrong. No, we have not reached the needed percentage. Only 62% of the whole population has been vaccinated. Look it up. By anyone's standards, that is not herd immunity. Excluding children from the whole population is ignoring science and manipulation.
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Post by pixiechick on Jan 11, 2022 2:00:36 GMT
I don't care how you feel about mandates. How many times do we need to repeat this? Your "facts" are wrong. No, we have not reached the needed percentage. Only 62% of the whole population has been vaccinated. Look it up. By anyone's standards, that is not herd immunity. Excluding children from the whole population is ignoring science and manipulation. My facts are not wrong. CNBC- U.S. reaches 70% Covid vaccine milestone for adults about a month behind Biden’s goal
There's more, NY Times, CNN, etc. That was in August. Many, many, many more have been vaccinated since then. The ONLY reason we're "not at 70%" or more NOW is because they moved the goal posts. Read this and comprehend it: If 70% produced the effective result in August, it's still an effective result now. And we've added even more vaccinated adults to the count. Adding in children is icing on the cake, but it did not change the effectiveness of the 70%. Reality just doesn't work like that.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 11, 2022 2:05:44 GMT
I don't care how you feel about mandates. How many times do we need to repeat this? Your "facts" are wrong. No, we have not reached the needed percentage. Only 62% of the whole population has been vaccinated. Look it up. By anyone's standards, that is not herd immunity. Excluding children from the whole population is ignoring science and manipulation. My facts are not wrong. CNBC- U.S. reaches 70% Covid vaccine milestone for adults about a month behind Biden’s goal
There's more, NY Times, CNN, etc. That was in August. Many, many, many more have been vaccinated since then. The ONLY reason we're "not at 70%" or more NOW is because they moved the goal posts. Read this and comprehend it: If 70% produced the effective result in August, it's still an effective result now. And we've added even more vaccinated adults to the count. Adding in children is icing on the cake, but it did not change the effectiveness of the 70%. Reality just doesn't work like that. No one is disputing that we reached 70% of adults last summer. That was Biden's July 4th goal and has nothing to do with herd immunity. Biden's July 4th goal was similar to his 100 day goals. A goal for the whole population at the time was impossible because children were not eligible yet. Maybe you need to read this again and try to comprehend. I posted this at least 3-4 times in this thread alone, without insulting your intelligence or reading comprehension, except for repeating your words back to you and asking you how many times do we need to repeat something. Not an unreasonable question because its been posted 5-6 times already. Other posters also tried to explain it to you. Herd immunity has always been the whole population. No one added them, they are not icing on the cake. They are part of the whole population and have always been. Excluding them makes no sense unless you isolate all of them together somewhere. Feb 2021 www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/02/22/covid-vaccine-children-herd-immunity/April 2021 childrenshospital.northwell.edu/news/insights/kids-are-the-key-to-herd-immunity-from-covid-19Children comprise 23 percent of the US population, so a good portion of them will need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunitynews.northeastern.edu/2021/04/01/why-kids-hold-the-key-to-herd-immunity/It mostly comes down to the numbers needed for herd immunity, Maniar says. Children make up 22.1 percent of the US population, and, given that some adults won’t get vaccinated because of vaccine hesitancy or underlying conditions, that is a significant portion of the population that still could be contracting and transmitting the virus that causes COVID-19March 2021 www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210322/fauci-says-child-vaccinations-needed-for-herd-immunity Mar. 22, 2021 -- The United States probably won’t reach herd immunity until children are vaccinated, Anthony Fauci, MD, said. .
"We don't really know what that magical point of herd immunity is, but we do know that if we get the overwhelming population vaccinated, we're going to be in good shape,” Fauci said Thursday during a hearing of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. “We ultimately would like to get and have to get children into that mix."
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 11, 2022 2:40:08 GMT
Children were always part of the calculation, they’re part of the population. Why would you exclude them? The herd immunity goal has always been 70-85% of the entire population and we're not there. How many times do we need to repeat this? Your "facts" are wrong. No, we have not reached the needed percentage. Only 62% of the whole population has been vaccinated. Look it up. By anyone's standards, that is not herd immunity. Excluding children from the whole population is ignoring science and manipulation.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,409
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jan 11, 2022 2:57:54 GMT
Adams has made a few errors in being a bit too polite to Trump in the past. Nice to see him speaking up.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 11, 2022 3:26:42 GMT
Adams has made a few errors in being a bit too polite to Trump in the past. Nice to see him speaking up. Yes, I think it's notable that Trump's surgeon general is speaking up and saying the goal posts were not moved. He's been openly critical of the Biden administration but more reserved when it comes to Trump.
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Post by pixiechick on Jan 11, 2022 3:40:06 GMT
My facts are not wrong. CNBC- U.S. reaches 70% Covid vaccine milestone for adults about a month behind Biden’s goal
There's more, NY Times, CNN, etc. That was in August. Many, many, many more have been vaccinated since then. The ONLY reason we're "not at 70%" or more NOW is because they moved the goal posts. Read this and comprehend it: If 70% produced the effective result in August, it's still an effective result now. And we've added even more vaccinated adults to the count. Adding in children is icing on the cake, but it did not change the effectiveness of the 70%. Reality just doesn't work like that. No one is disputing that we reached 70% of adults last summer. That was Biden's July 4th goal and has nothing to do with herd immunity. Biden's July 4th goal was similar to his 100 day goals. A goal for the whole population at the time was impossible because children were not eligible yet. Maybe you need to read this again and try to comprehend. I posted this at least 3-4 times in this thread alone, without insulting your intelligence or reading comprehension, except for repeating your words back to you and asking you how many times do we need to repeat something. Not an unreasonable question because its been posted 5-6 times already. Other posters also tried to explain it to you. Herd immunity has always been the whole population. No one added them, they are not icing on the cake. They are part of the whole population and have always been. Excluding them makes no sense unless you isolate all of them together somewhere. Feb 2021 www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/02/22/covid-vaccine-children-herd-immunity/April 2021 childrenshospital.northwell.edu/news/insights/kids-are-the-key-to-herd-immunity-from-covid-19Children comprise 23 percent of the US population, so a good portion of them will need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunitynews.northeastern.edu/2021/04/01/why-kids-hold-the-key-to-herd-immunity/It mostly comes down to the numbers needed for herd immunity, Maniar says. Children make up 22.1 percent of the US population, and, given that some adults won’t get vaccinated because of vaccine hesitancy or underlying conditions, that is a significant portion of the population that still could be contracting and transmitting the virus that causes COVID-19March 2021 www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210322/fauci-says-child-vaccinations-needed-for-herd-immunity Mar. 22, 2021 -- The United States probably won’t reach herd immunity until children are vaccinated, Anthony Fauci, MD, said. .
"We don't really know what that magical point of herd immunity is, but we do know that if we get the overwhelming population vaccinated, we're going to be in good shape,” Fauci said Thursday during a hearing of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. “We ultimately would like to get and have to get children into that mix."You are right, I was wrong. My sincere apologies.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 11, 2022 3:45:37 GMT
Apology accepted. Thank you for acknowledging that.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 11, 2022 4:15:03 GMT
Here is the problem with herd immunity. Variants. I read a study a couple weeks that the research showed new variants formed in unvaccinated individuals. From another article, Healthline link“ Unvaccinated People Are Increasing the Chances for More Coronavirus Variants — Here’s How”
*Experts say the number of unvaccinated people in the United States is a key reason coronavirus variants are emerging. *They explain that the virus replicates quicker in unvaccinated people, increasing the chance of mutations. *They’re concerned that new COVID-19 cases will continue to rise as variants spread and people still refuse to get vaccinated. Chances are, the coronavirus variant known as Epsilon might not be on your radar, but scientists sure are watching it. First discovered in California last December, it’s now spreading in Pakistan. “This is worrisome, as it is more transmissible than original strains of the virus,” said Dr. Purvi Parikh, an allergist and immunologist with the Allergy and Asthma Network in New York City. She added, “there is some early evidence” that the variant could be resistant to the vaccines. So far, scientists in the United States say COVID-19 vaccines seem to be holding up against a new crop of variants that include Gamma, Lambda, Delta Plus, and even the Delta variant that’s responsible for 90 percent of new cases in the country. But some experts are worried the clock is ticking. “It’s perhaps just a matter of time,” said Dr. Michael Saag, a professor of medicine, infectious diseases, and virology at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. “Let’s say, hypothetically, that a new variant could emerge where we won’t be so fortunate, and the existing vaccines won’t work,” Saag explained to Healthline. “I call that hypothetical variant Omega. That’s the one we’re all fearing. It hasn’t happened yet, and we hope it doesn’t. But the longer this goes on with widespread transmission, the possibility increases with time,” he said.“ If studies continue to say unvaccinated are more likely to be the perfect host body for new variants then logic dictates that it’s in the best interest of the entire world to get every single person that can be vaccinated, vaccinated to cut down if not eliminate potential variants. I understand for medical reasons some people can’t be vaccinated. But hopefully it will be such a small number it won’t matter. Because look what happens every time there is a new variant. First there is a rush to make sure the current vaccines work against the new variant. Then there are shut downs. I don’t know about in your area but several of the school districts here went in meltdown overload trying to decide if , with this new variant, the schools should have in person school or remote school or a combination of both. Seriously we can’t keep doing this every time there is a new variant. So the key is stopping these variants from forming. And from what I understand about herd immunity that may not be the best way to do it.
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 11, 2022 5:05:03 GMT
I know, scientists and public health experts have moved away from herd immunity. They’re focusing on vaccinations, boosters, masks and testing. Although the last part isn’t going so well in the US. And when we look at vaccinations, we need to look at the whole world. Until a lot more eligible people around the world are vaccinated, new variants will keep emerging.
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Post by lucyg on Jan 11, 2022 5:54:50 GMT
No one is disputing that we reached 70% of adults last summer. That was Biden's July 4th goal and has nothing to do with herd immunity. Biden's July 4th goal was similar to his 100 day goals. A goal for the whole population at the time was impossible because children were not eligible yet. Maybe you need to read this again and try to comprehend. I posted this at least 3-4 times in this thread alone, without insulting your intelligence or reading comprehension, except for repeating your words back to you and asking you how many times do we need to repeat something. Not an unreasonable question because its been posted 5-6 times already. Other posters also tried to explain it to you. Herd immunity has always been the whole population. No one added them, they are not icing on the cake. They are part of the whole population and have always been. Excluding them makes no sense unless you isolate all of them together somewhere. Feb 2021 www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/02/22/covid-vaccine-children-herd-immunity/April 2021 childrenshospital.northwell.edu/news/insights/kids-are-the-key-to-herd-immunity-from-covid-19Children comprise 23 percent of the US population, so a good portion of them will need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunitynews.northeastern.edu/2021/04/01/why-kids-hold-the-key-to-herd-immunity/It mostly comes down to the numbers needed for herd immunity, Maniar says. Children make up 22.1 percent of the US population, and, given that some adults won’t get vaccinated because of vaccine hesitancy or underlying conditions, that is a significant portion of the population that still could be contracting and transmitting the virus that causes COVID-19March 2021 www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210322/fauci-says-child-vaccinations-needed-for-herd-immunity Mar. 22, 2021 -- The United States probably won’t reach herd immunity until children are vaccinated, Anthony Fauci, MD, said. .
"We don't really know what that magical point of herd immunity is, but we do know that if we get the overwhelming population vaccinated, we're going to be in good shape,” Fauci said Thursday during a hearing of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. “We ultimately would like to get and have to get children into that mix."You are right, I was wrong. My sincere apologies. That was really a nice, admirable thing to do.
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Post by lucyg on Jan 11, 2022 5:59:29 GMT
My understanding is that herd community (meaning almost everyone is vaccinated) stops the spread of the disease, and therefore stops variants from appearing. Of course, we would need to ensure the whole world gets vaccinated, not just the first world countries.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,409
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jan 11, 2022 7:50:53 GMT
We won't get true herd immunity until we get vaccinations into 'Third World/underdeveloped' (for lack of a better term) at a very high level. That's why the WHO is legitimately angry (too strong?) about countries like Israel & the UK considering further boosters, and why they didn't want us to have boosters here at all. Had we taken an approach of only vaccinating the most vulnerable in countries like the US & Canada, and instead sent vaccines to places in Africa, etc, that need it, we would likely be in a better position to defeat this pandemic.
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Post by gar on Jan 11, 2022 9:02:11 GMT
We won't get true herd immunity until we get vaccinations into 'Third World/underdeveloped' (for lack of a better term) at a very high level. That's why the WHO is legitimately angry (too strong?) about countries like Israel & the UK considering further boosters, and why they didn't want us to have boosters here at all. Had we taken an approach of only vaccinating the most vulnerable in countries like the US & Canada, and instead sent vaccines to places in Africa, etc, that need it, we would likely be in a better position to defeat this pandemic. Just sending the vaccine doesn’t solve the problem. There is so much more too it than that. In less populous countries, countries without the infrastructure and governments that don’t necessarily have the interests of the population at heart etc the sheer problematic scale of reaching the majority of a population is huge and unfortunately just won’t happen overnight. I completely agree it’s what needs to be done but it’s going to take massive corroborative action to get it done.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,409
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jan 11, 2022 23:03:01 GMT
We won't get true herd immunity until we get vaccinations into 'Third World/underdeveloped' (for lack of a better term) at a very high level. That's why the WHO is legitimately angry (too strong?) about countries like Israel & the UK considering further boosters, and why they didn't want us to have boosters here at all. Had we taken an approach of only vaccinating the most vulnerable in countries like the US & Canada, and instead sent vaccines to places in Africa, etc, that need it, we would likely be in a better position to defeat this pandemic. Just sending the vaccine doesn’t solve the problem. There is so much more too it than that. In less populous countries, countries without the infrastructure and governments that don’t necessarily have the interests of the population at heart etc the sheer problematic scale of reaching the majority of a population is huge and unfortunately just won’t happen overnight. I completely agree it’s what needs to be done but it’s going to take massive corroborative action to get it done. Absolutely. I may get slammed for saying it, but there are some genuinely decent church missionary groups that can assist organizations like Doctors Without Borders, for example. Add in other NGOs, too. It would take a collaborative effort.
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