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Post by aj2hall on Feb 2, 2022 0:10:14 GMT
This was mentioned in the political thread, but there are some huge red flags and I think his statements deserve their own thread. I know we've kind of become numb to the outrageous things that he says, but he's admitting to trying to overturn the election, probably as an attempt to make it seem less criminal. The racist bullhorn that he's now using is also alarming. And his promise to pardon the Jan 6 insurrectionists is dangerous. Lindsay Graham said his remarks were inappropriate, but that doesn't nearly go far enough. And the NH Governor denounced the idea of pardons. So far, all of the other Republicans remain silent and are complicit. Just like they've done for the last year, they will remain silent and wait for this to blow over, for Americans to move on to something else. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/31/trumps-campaign-revenge/If and when Donald Trump runs for president in 2024, his will be a campaign devoted to revenge. Take all the ugliness, the anger, the race-baiting, the hate-mongering and the fetishization of violence that characterized his prior campaigns, and multiply them tenfold. That’s what’s in store for all of us.Trump’s revanchist campaign will have many targets, but his greatest enemies are democracy and the rule of law itself. He made that clear this past weekend, when he took a new step in his long campaign to turn the horrific Jan. 6 insurrection into a story in which he and his supporters are the real victims. Trump has been unwavering in justifying the insurrection and defending those who carried it out, beginning while the violence was still in progress. “We had an election that was stolen from us,” he said in a short video issued that day while the rioters were still rampaging, telling them, “We love you, you’re very special.” But at a rally in Texas on Saturday, he went further than he has before. “If I run and I win, we will treat those people from January 6 fairly,” he said. “And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly.” The practical implications of this pledge for the insurrectionists themselves may be small; nearly all are likely to have completed their sentences by the time Trump would take office in 2025. But the symbolic importance is enormous. No president in history used his pardon power in as corrupt a fashion as Trump. Early on, he dangled the possibility of pardons as a message to those who helped him commit his misdeeds: Stay loyal to me, and I will make sure you are not punished for your crimes. And he followed through, pardoning a rogues’ gallery of former aides: Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Stephen K. Bannon and Michael Flynn, among others. But now, Trump is not just speaking to those who work for him; he’s talking to the whole population of his supporters, millions strong. If you commit crimes in my service, he says — even violent crimes, even insurrection against the government of the United States — I will protect you. Do your worst.
He also lashed out at prosecutors examining his financial shenanigans and his efforts to pressure officials into overturning the results of the 2020 election: If these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protests we have ever had in Washington, D.C., in New York, in Atlanta and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt.This isn’t an explicit call to mob violence, but combined with his celebration of the mob violence on Jan. 6, 2021, and his promise to pardon those who carried it out, the implication is clear: The appropriate response to the operation of the American legal system, if it doesn’t produce the outcomes you want, is to threaten it in the same way the electoral system was threatened a year ago.Trump’s statements were so alarming that even some Republicans objected to them. Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said, “I think it is inappropriate. I don’t want to reinforce that defiling the Capitol was okay,” while New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu denounced the idea of pardons. And a handful of more reasonable Republican governors are willing to say that Trump shouldn’t be their party’s leader, because it will lead to more defeat. But if there’s an internal conflict in the GOP over Trump, he’s going to win it and his critics are going to lose. You can point to some polls showing declines in Trump’s popularity among the large universe of Republicans. But his GOP critics won’t coalesce into coherent resistance. Most Republican officeholders represent conservative states and districts where his supporters dominate, so they can’t be too critical of him. Those who are have no national constituency; there is no organized movement behind, say, Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan. So no Republican would beat him in a presidential primary. And if he is their nominee, what will happen? Once again, nearly every Republican will say, “I don’t agree with everything he says, but since the alternative is Democrats being in power, I’m behind him.” Which will mean indulging Trump’s increasingly violent rhetoric and promises to abuse power and undermine the rule of law. From now through 2024, Trump will steadily ratchet up his threats of lawlessness from both inside and outside the government he seeks to lead. And his fans will thrill to every moment of it. Just as in 2016 he told them to abandon civility and relish giving offense, in 2024 he will give them new permission to edge toward violence.The difference between then and now is that the 2016 version of Trump felt that adherence to laws and norms — paying your taxes, obeying labor laws, telling the truth on loan applications — was for suckers, losers, people who didn’t have his ability to get what they want from the system. But today, the system isn’t merely something he wants to circumvent and manipulate, it’s his enemy. It validates his election loss, it prosecutes him and his business, it resists him at every turn. And he wants revenge, both by winning in 2024 — with the help of a cadre of candidates who are all but promising to steal future elections on his behalf — and with a new presidential term that will make the previous one look upstanding and honorable.Trump’s malignant presidency ended with an attack on both the Capitol and the American system of government. If he gets another chance, do you doubt he’ll bring even worse? His threats are not just talk. They’re a terrifying preview of what’s to come, and we’d better pay attention.
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 2, 2022 0:10:55 GMT
heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/january-30-2022January 30, 2022 Heather Cox Richardson Jan 30 This will just be a marker to keep the record complete—I need a night off. Last night, at a rally in Conroe, Texas, former president Trump told supporters that if he runs for president and wins in 2024, he will pardon the January 6 insurrectionists. Observers note that this promise might encourage the bigger fish ensnared by the investigation to keep quiet; Will Bunch of the Philadelphia Inquirer noted that “Trump…is committing a form of obstruction of justice in full public view.” Others note that the promise of pardoning the insurrectionists might well become a litmus test for any Republican candidate in 2024. That promise of pardons might also be for crimes not yet committed. Trump called for "the biggest protest we have ever had" in New York City, Washington, and Atlanta if the prosecutors "do anything wrong or illegal." The specificity of the cities he mentioned suggests that the cases against him in New York City, Georgia, and Washington are weighing on his mind. "These prosecutors are vicious, horrible people. They're racists and they're very sick—they're mentally sick," he said. "They're going after me without any protection of my rights from the Supreme Court or most other courts. In reality, they're not after me, they're after you." Observers saw his comments as a call for violence if the various legal cases against him lead to indictments. Crucially, these statements were clearly part of a plan: he did not say them off the cuff but appeared to read them from a teleprompter. It seems likely that as investigators get closer, he is turning to the threat of street violence to try to get them to back off. It is not clear that will work, since more than 750 people who took to the streets for him in January 2021 are now facing criminal prosecution. Many have blamed him for where they are. It might be hard to rally more people with that history, and it seems that the promise of future pardons might be designed to address that wavering faith. But Bunch noted that, overlooked by those not attuned to the siren songs of the right, Trump’s use of the word “racist” is a call to white supremacists. Three of the main prosecutors investigating the former president—Fulton County, Georgia, district attorney Fani Willis; New York State attorney general Letitia James; and Manhattan prosecutor Alvin Bragg (who recently took over from Cyrus Vance, Jr.)—are Black. So is Representative Bennie Thompson (D-MS), who chairs the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the U.S. Capitol. “It’s both alarming and yet utterly predictable that Trump would toss the gasoline of racial allegations onto his flaming pile of grievances, knowing how that will play with the Confederate flag aficionados within the ex-president’s cult,” Bunch wrote. Trump, he said, “is seeking to start a race war.”
But, as a sign of just how tied the Republican Party is to the former president now, on ABC News’s This Week, today, Senator Susan Collins (R-ME) refused to rule out supporting Trump in 2024 despite last night’s incendiary speech. Collins’s reluctance to offend the former president didn’t do her much good: tonight, in an astounding statement, he referred to her as “Wacky Susan Collins.” The statement was astounding not because he was insulting a Republican senator. Referring to bipartisan congressional discussions about clarifying the law to guarantee that no one ever again will argue that the vice president can overturn the results of an election (this is where Collins came up), Trump claimed those discussions themselves proved the plan his team came up with was, in fact, legal. (It is not.) He went on to say: “Mike Pence did have the right to change the outcome and they now want to take that right away. Unfortunately, he didn’t exercise that power, he could have overturned the Election!” After more than a year of insisting he just wanted to address the problem of voter fraud, which he falsely claimed had stolen the election from him, Trump just came right out and said he wanted to overturn the results of the 2020 election. Former U.S. attorney and legal commentator Joyce White Vance wrote: “This is what prosecutors call guilty knowledge. And also, intent.” CNN’s Jim Acosta was more succinct: he tweeted, “Coup coup for Cocoa Puffs.” It is unlikely Trump’s admission was a slip. He tends to put out in public potential criminal activity, like the phone call to Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky, which he—not a whistleblower—first told reporters about. Apparently, declaring it openly makes it harder for people to see it as a crime. That he chose to put this out on a Sunday night suggests that he expects bad news this week. At the very least, it is impossible to imagine that his promise to pardon the January 6 insurrectionists, his call for protests if he is indicted, and his admission that he wanted to overturn the results of the 2020 election will not stir up politics this week. What will the Republican leaders who have tied themselves to Trump say now that he has openly admitted he was trying to destroy our democracy? —
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Post by dizzycheermom on Feb 2, 2022 1:01:50 GMT
I 100% agree with you. We are heading down a very scary and dangerous road.
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 2, 2022 1:46:18 GMT
I think one of the scariest parts is that the Republicans sold their integrity and ethics to the devil. Their silence is just as dangerous as Trump's statements. Beau of the 5th column had an interesting video. As others have pointed out, Trump had the opportunity to pardon the insurrectionists before he left office. He just sold them to the highest bidders instead. He dangled the pardons to encourage people to protest in cities where he's being charged. I like his analogy that an electoral count bill is like putting a warning label on a blender. Beau's prediction that Trump might become more unhinged is kind of scary to think about. It could get worse before it gets better. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrpIisESY5k
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Post by fiddlesticks on Feb 2, 2022 1:51:59 GMT
I had a conversation with a coworker, who is Jewish, who said that it was this point in Germany that her grandfather decided to leave Germany. And she was dead serious. She thinks it’s just a matter of time and are seriously having conversations about what country they can move to. They have some options because of his work and are very much weighing when they need to do it. It is truly unreal. Except it’s not.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 2, 2022 3:17:16 GMT
There were many Republicans that didn’t vote for him but voted for Biden the last time. Hoping that they don’t go back snd vote for him if he runs again. They still consider themselves republicans but not trump supporters and can’t stand him or anything he stands for. Hoping they don’t decide that any Republican is better than a democrat next time around.
I’m just afraid that no matter the outcome it’s going to make 2020 look like a practice run. I’m afraid what the future holds.
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 2, 2022 3:41:38 GMT
He is nuts..
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 2, 2022 3:48:39 GMT
It’s no secret that I loathe Trump, but even I was shocked by that speech. I honestly believe that he’s losing it. I mean, he is already being investigated. And now, to call for bigger protests?
This part? You don’t have to be a genius to understand exactly what he means:
“ That promise of pardons might also be for crimes not yet committed. Trump called for "the biggest protest we have ever had" in New York City, Washington, and Atlanta if the prosecutors "do anything wrong or illegal." The specificity of the cities he mentioned suggests that the cases against him in New York City, Georgia, and Washington are weighing on his mind. "These prosecutors are vicious, horrible people. They're racists and they're very sick—they're mentally sick," he said. "They're going after me without any protection of my rights from the Supreme Court or most other courts. In reality, they're not after me, they're after you."
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 7:30:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 3:57:01 GMT
Don't you all think this will motivate more and more people to dump Trump? Look at the demographics of this country. We can overcome this hate!
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Feb 2, 2022 4:10:54 GMT
It’s no secret that I loathe Trump, but even I was shocked by that speech. I honestly believe that he’s losing it. I mean, he is already being investigated. And now, to call for bigger protests? This part? You don’t have to be a genius to understand exactly what he means: “ That promise of pardons might also be for crimes not yet committed. Trump called for "the biggest protest we have ever had" in New York City, Washington, and Atlanta if the prosecutors "do anything wrong or illegal." The specificity of the cities he mentioned suggests that the cases against him in New York City, Georgia, and Washington are weighing on his mind. "These prosecutors are vicious, horrible people. They're racists and they're very sick—they're mentally sick," he said. "They're going after me without any protection of my rights from the Supreme Court or most other courts. In reality, they're not after me, they're after you." As I've said (somewhere) here before he is just in a cycle of covering his a$$ from the last dumb thing he's done. Basically been doing it his entire life. Do something sketchy triggers his cover that up with something else sketchy and/or stupid, lather rinse, repeat. It's like he's in a out of control downward spiral and the loops are getting smaller and moving quicker as he heads down. Hopefully he doesn't flush us all with his maddness.
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 2, 2022 8:46:28 GMT
It’s no secret that I loathe Trump, but even I was shocked by that speech. I honestly believe that he’s losing it. I mean, he is already being investigated. And now, to call for bigger protests? This part? You don’t have to be a genius to understand exactly what he means: “ That promise of pardons might also be for crimes not yet committed. Trump called for "the biggest protest we have ever had" in New York City, Washington, and Atlanta if the prosecutors "do anything wrong or illegal." The specificity of the cities he mentioned suggests that the cases against him in New York City, Georgia, and Washington are weighing on his mind. "These prosecutors are vicious, horrible people. They're racists and they're very sick—they're mentally sick," he said. "They're going after me without any protection of my rights from the Supreme Court or most other courts. In reality, they're not after me, they're after you." I wonder about this part. What rights or protection does he think he has from the Supreme Court? Does he think he’s entitled to special protection because he appointed 3 justices? I know he thinks he bought them and they should be in his corner, but this seems above and beyond that. Unless he’s referring to the National archives releasing the records?
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Feb 2, 2022 12:56:10 GMT
I had a conversation with a coworker, who is Jewish, who said that it was this point in Germany that her grandfather decided to leave Germany. And she was dead serious. She thinks it’s just a matter of time and are seriously having conversations about what country they can move to. They have some options because of his work and are very much weighing when they need to do it. It is truly unreal. Except it’s not. Same situation here (not Jewish though). We have been planning for years to retire in Europe. 2025 has been our target date. That may get moved up to 2023. Luckily, we have the option to move there as everyone in the family except me already has EU citizenship. We are waiting to see what happens in November to get an idea of how bad it is going to get in 2024. If things go very badly in Nov. 2024, the question will be "how bad is it going to get in the months between January 1, 2025 and the end of May (when I'll have my years for maximum pension benefits)? And if things go REALLY bad after that...will the pension even be worth anything?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 2, 2022 14:07:10 GMT
It’s no secret that I loathe Trump, but even I was shocked by that speech. I honestly believe that he’s losing it. I mean, he is already being investigated. And now, to call for bigger protests? This part? You don’t have to be a genius to understand exactly what he means: “ That promise of pardons might also be for crimes not yet committed. Trump called for "the biggest protest we have ever had" in New York City, Washington, and Atlanta if the prosecutors "do anything wrong or illegal." The specificity of the cities he mentioned suggests that the cases against him in New York City, Georgia, and Washington are weighing on his mind. "These prosecutors are vicious, horrible people. They're racists and they're very sick—they're mentally sick," he said. "They're going after me without any protection of my rights from the Supreme Court or most other courts. In reality, they're not after me, they're after you." I said this back in 2015/16… The mental gymnastics that republicans/conservatives employ, The gaslighting that republicans/conservatives engage in, The daily barrage of “can it get worse” (and it does), The misinformation-disinformation-the out right lies that republicans and conservatives spread daily, It is specifically, purposefully, strategically, willfully (knowing the harm it’s doing) done to be exhausting. It’s meant to break down, tear down, be hateful, a burden, and to sow mistrust, so that people give up, so that they can take power and control. They are gaslighting to exhaust us. To overwhelm us. To depress us. All in the hopes that we give up and stop voting thinking our voices won’t matter.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 2, 2022 14:09:36 GMT
It’s no secret that I loathe Trump, but even I was shocked by that speech. I honestly believe that he’s losing it. I mean, he is already being investigated. And now, to call for bigger protests? This part? You don’t have to be a genius to understand exactly what he means: “ That promise of pardons might also be for crimes not yet committed. Trump called for "the biggest protest we have ever had" in New York City, Washington, and Atlanta if the prosecutors "do anything wrong or illegal." The specificity of the cities he mentioned suggests that the cases against him in New York City, Georgia, and Washington are weighing on his mind. "These prosecutors are vicious, horrible people. They're racists and they're very sick—they're mentally sick," he said. "They're going after me without any protection of my rights from the Supreme Court or most other courts. In reality, they're not after me, they're after you." I wonder about this part. What rights or protection does he think he has from the Supreme Court? Does he think he’s entitled to special protection because he appointed 3 justices? I know he thinks he bought them and they should be in his corner, but this seems above and beyond that. Unless he’s referring to the National archives releasing the records? Yes. He’s all about I’ll give you something and you owe me. If people go against him, he trashed them. He would fire and appoint people who are only to do his bidding.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 2, 2022 14:11:59 GMT
I wonder about this part. What rights or protection does he think he has from the Supreme Court? Does he think he’s entitled to special protection because he appointed 3 justices? I know he thinks he bought them and they should be in his corner, but this seems above and beyond that. Unless he’s referring to the National archives releasing the records? Yes. He’s all about I’ll give you something and you owe me. If people go against him, he trashed them. He would fire and appoint people who are only to do his bidding. It’s a terrifying thought. The man has no scruples whatsoever.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,069
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Feb 2, 2022 15:00:39 GMT
Don't you all think this will motivate more and more people to dump Trump? Look at the demographics of this country. We can overcome this hate! Absolutely not! I believe this fuels these sheep even more. I was pretty sure the general population were deeply disturbed unintelligent humans but it was confirmed in 2016.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 7:30:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 16:45:28 GMT
Don't you all think this will motivate more and more people to dump Trump? Look at the demographics of this country. We can overcome this hate! Absolutely not! I believe this fuels these sheep even more. I was pretty sure the general population were deeply disturbed unintelligent humans but it was confirmed in 2016. 2020: trump received more than 74 million votes. The vote total for Biden, 81 million. There are more than 234 million people eligible to vote in the U.S. ROUGHLY 1/3 of eligible voters/people were misled into voting for him. How many of the Trump voters really like him? Maybe 30 million, yes this is astounding. Many others just hate Biden (weird). We need to get people to wake up and vote. It is totally possible to do this. Many young people care. Many more loving communities are mobilized by this terrible person's hatred. Not saying it's easy but feeling like it's hopeless is not a big motivator for me personally...not trying to fight you, maybe the way you look at it helps keep you going, it is depressing as well, discouraging, shocking. I personally am going to keep do everything I can to motivate non voters to do their duty as citizens.
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 2, 2022 19:01:57 GMT
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,064
Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Feb 2, 2022 22:39:00 GMT
He honestly frightens me, too much like Hitler.
The Trump flags turn my stomach.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 7:30:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2022 3:23:18 GMT
If you haven't watched Netflix's Hitler's Circle of Evil, I implore you to look into it. www.netflix.com/title/80138915Chilling parallels to what we're living through. Nauseatingly stark similarities if we don't wake the F(#*$ up and stop being so gullible to the propaganda of the right and the scapegoat strategies that brought the world the atrocities of the Holocaust. Only on episode 3 but it's riveting. Things that have shaken me so far: 1. Hitler's assertion that you take power through legal means (elections) and the foment revolution (i.e., break down the social and legal order) AFTER you're in power - sound familiar? 2. The need for "crisis" to get the average Joe to fall for your scapegoating - in the Nazi's case, the stock market crash of '29. In '28 they only had 12 seats in government because their "blame the Jews" shtick wasn't fallen for by the Germans - things were good. In the '30 election they got over 100 seats - after their loans were called in by the West. They also loved blaming "effeminate Jewish–Christian ethics" for enfeebling the "master race" Aryans. 3. Hugo Boss started out by making Nazi uniforms - things I never knew.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Feb 3, 2022 14:03:13 GMT
He honestly frightens me, too much like Hitler. The Trump flags turn my stomach. So true. I'm new to this area. Every time I see one flying by someone's home, I think, "well there's someone I have no desire to know." Before I moved it deeply saddened deeply seeing them as there was a good chance I already knew, knew of or had some encounter with the flag flyer. (Rural) I don't know which is worse. I don't get the fanatic feel behind wanting to adorn your car (or even more likely, your 'pick em up truck') house and yard with garbage paraphernalia glorifying one person anyway. Especially him.
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