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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 2, 2022 21:32:25 GMT
What do you think will happen there? What is it that Putin wants? Are you happy with the response from the US and other countries so far?
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Post by katlady on Feb 2, 2022 21:40:01 GMT
My thoughts are that Putin wants Ukraine back under Soviet control, and he doesn't want them to join NATO. They also have natural gas pipelines. Culturally, they are similar to Russia and Russia feels they should belong to them.
I don't know what we should do. I also don't know what we should do if China tries to take Taiwan back. No matter what we do, I don't see a good outcome.
Scary and dangerous situations.
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Ryann
Pearl Clutcher
Love is Inclusive
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May 31, 2021 3:14:17 GMT
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Post by Ryann on Feb 2, 2022 21:46:42 GMT
Seeing how Russia annexed Crimea without much trouble, I'm not at all surprised at the their muscle flexing now and expect a repeat of what transpired in 2014 - SSDD.
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Post by voltagain on Feb 2, 2022 22:08:29 GMT
What do you think will happen there? What is it that Putin wants? Are you happy with the response from the US and other countries so far? The Ukraine has talked about joining NATO. Putin sees that as a threat to Russia's security as NATO will likely put bases in the Ukraine if they join. Having US and European military based that close to them is a very real securcity threat. Same as if part of Canada decided to join an alliance with China/Russia and put their armies at our border. The Ukraine also has a wealth of oil and various minerals that will be cut off to Russia or if not cut off, at least sold to the highest bidder.
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lesley
Drama Llama
My best friend Turriff, desperately missed.
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland
Jul 6, 2014 21:50:44 GMT
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Post by lesley on Feb 2, 2022 22:13:26 GMT
My DS has an online friendship with a Russian girl, and he asked her what she thought about the situation. At first she said she didn’t really know much, as she doesn’t follow politics and doesn’t watch much TV. DS told her about what was happening and how it is being viewed in Europe and "the West". She came back a few hours later having spoken to some friends and family. What she then told DS was that Ukraine had been threatening to invade Russia (!) and that Russia was a peaceful nation that did not like conflict, so DS had obviously got it wrong.
It seems like brainwashing is an issue in other parts of the world too. 😉
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 2, 2022 22:13:42 GMT
At the very least he wants influence. He wants NATO to butt out. He would love to expand Russian territory. And the countries around him want no part of it.
I think that Biden is doing pretty much all that he can do. I like the idea of personal sanctions against Putin.
If you are curious, Deep State Radio has a podcast with some very knowledgeable people that will give you some info. Putin is a bully who misses the glory days of the USSR. I don’t believe for a second that taking a piece of Ukraine would satisfy him. He would be back for more territory.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2022 22:42:07 GMT
At the very least he wants influence. He wants NATO to butt out. He would love to expand Russian territory. And the countries around him want no part of it. I think that Biden is doing pretty much all that he can do. I like the idea of personal sanctions against Putin. If you are curious, Deep State Radio has a podcast with some very knowledgeable people that will give you some info. Putin is a bully who misses the glory days of the USSR. I don’t believe for a second that taking a piece of Ukraine would satisfy him. He would be back for more territory. Yes, I would add the Kremlin File podcast to that one. I’ve been listening since it started late last year, and I’ve learned more about Russia than I never knew. It’s equal parts fascinating and disturbing.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 2, 2022 22:43:13 GMT
At the very least he wants influence. He wants NATO to butt out. He would love to expand Russian territory. And the countries around him want no part of it. I think that Biden is doing pretty much all that he can do. I like the idea of personal sanctions against Putin. If you are curious, Deep State Radio has a podcast with some very knowledgeable people that will give you some info. Putin is a bully who misses the glory days of the USSR. I don’t believe for a second that taking a piece of Ukraine would satisfy him. He would be back for more territory. Yes, I would add the Kremlin File podcast to that one. I’ve been listening since it started late last year, and I’ve learned more about Russia than I never knew. It’s equal parts fascinating and disturbing. Thank you! I love a good podcast.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2022 22:43:31 GMT
At the very least he wants influence. He wants NATO to butt out. He would love to expand Russian territory. And the countries around him want no part of it. I think that Biden is doing pretty much all that he can do. I like the idea of personal sanctions against Putin. If you are curious, Deep State Radio has a podcast with some very knowledgeable people that will give you some info. Putin is a bully who misses the glory days of the USSR. I don’t believe for a second that taking a piece of Ukraine would satisfy him. He would be back for more territory. He won’t be, he already took the Crimea with barely a whimper. No limit to his ambitions there. 🥴
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Post by gar on Feb 2, 2022 22:51:11 GMT
Tonight Putin has agreed to continue talks at least. I think if Putin can claim a win in some way and back down without losing face, he will do although I have no idea what, as NATO can't offer what wants most which is a guarantee that Ukraine won't join the alliance.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
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Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Feb 2, 2022 23:02:13 GMT
Canada has been active in peace-keeping and training Ukrainian soldiers.
As part of last week's package, the Canadian Department of National Defence (DND) will also provide Ukraine with non-lethal military equipment, including body armour, metal detectors, thermal binoculars, laser range finders, tactical medical bags and surveillance technology.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 3, 2022 0:48:36 GMT
My DS has an online friendship with a Russian girl, and he asked her what she thought about the situation. At first she said she didn’t really know much, as she doesn’t follow politics and doesn’t watch much TV. DS told her about what was happening and how it is being viewed in Europe and "the West". She came back a few hours later having spoken to some friends and family. What she then told DS was that Ukraine had been threatening to invade Russia (!) and that Russia was a peaceful nation that did not like conflict, so DS had obviously got it wrong. It seems like brainwashing is an issue in other parts of the world too. 😉 Or that they are very closely monitored and are afraid to say exactly what is up!
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 3:55:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2022 2:27:21 GMT
My DS has an online friendship with a Russian girl, and he asked her what she thought about the situation. At first she said she didn’t really know much, as she doesn’t follow politics and doesn’t watch much TV. DS told her about what was happening and how it is being viewed in Europe and "the West". She came back a few hours later having spoken to some friends and family. What she then told DS was that Ukraine had been threatening to invade Russia (!) and that Russia was a peaceful nation that did not like conflict, so DS had obviously got it wrong. It seems like brainwashing is an issue in other parts of the world too. 😉 Or that they are very closely monitored and are afraid to say exactly what is up! Sharon Says So on Instagram briefly mentioned the Russia/Ukraine issue and said that Russia most definitely keeps it's citizens in the dark about what's really going on.
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Post by mellyw on Feb 3, 2022 5:32:26 GMT
Yes, I would add the Kremlin File podcast to that one. I’ve been listening since it started late last year, and I’ve learned more about Russia than I never knew. It’s equal parts fascinating and disturbing. Thank you! I love a good podcast. Thank you both for the podcast recommendations
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lesley
Drama Llama
My best friend Turriff, desperately missed.
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland
Jul 6, 2014 21:50:44 GMT
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Post by lesley on Feb 3, 2022 11:09:48 GMT
My DS has an online friendship with a Russian girl, and he asked her what she thought about the situation. At first she said she didn’t really know much, as she doesn’t follow politics and doesn’t watch much TV. DS told her about what was happening and how it is being viewed in Europe and "the West". She came back a few hours later having spoken to some friends and family. What she then told DS was that Ukraine had been threatening to invade Russia (!) and that Russia was a peaceful nation that did not like conflict, so DS had obviously got it wrong. It seems like brainwashing is an issue in other parts of the world too. 😉 Or that they are very closely monitored and are afraid to say exactly what is up! No, monitoring is something they have discussed in the past. The friend speaks freely and critically about their glorious leader.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2022 11:56:00 GMT
There is far more to be concerned about Russian's intentions than just the fact that Ukraine has requested to join Nato. If Russian is allowed to " walk in " to Ukraine then the whole of Europe is under threat. Russia have already deployed more troops and military equipment to Belarus that at any time in the last 30 years. No country( Poland) would feel safe with 100,000 troops just over it's border. If they were allowed to invade Ukraine then it would be Poland/Romania/Hungary next. Where would it end?
Russia have already made demands on NATO to remove NATO troops from two NATO member countries namely Romania and Bulgaria. The threat isn't from the NATO forces in these countries but are there to defend these sovereign nations.
I'm hoping that severe sanctions will de escalate the situation.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 3, 2022 12:35:07 GMT
There is far more to be concerned about Russian's intentions than just the fact that Ukraine has requested to join Nato. If Russian is allowed to " walk in " to Ukraine then the whole of Europe is under threat. Russia have already deployed more troops and military equipment to Belarus that at any time in the last 30 years. No country( Poland) would feel safe with 100,000 troops just over it's border. If they were allowed to invade Ukraine then it would be Poland/Romania/Hungary next. Where would it end? Russia have already made demands on NATO to remove NATO troops from two NATO member countries namely Romania and Bulgaria. The threat isn't from the NATO forces in these countries but are there to defend these sovereign nations. I'm hoping that severe sanctions will de escalate the situation. That is my concern as well. What is the big picture here? And why does Putin have any leverage to demand anything? I worry that this will turn into a huge problem, and that China wjll side with Russia.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 3, 2022 13:52:03 GMT
There is far more to be concerned about Russian's intentions than just the fact that Ukraine has requested to join Nato. If Russian is allowed to " walk in " to Ukraine then the whole of Europe is under threat. Russia have already deployed more troops and military equipment to Belarus that at any time in the last 30 years. No country( Poland) would feel safe with 100,000 troops just over it's border. If they were allowed to invade Ukraine then it would be Poland/Romania/Hungary next. Where would it end? Russia have already made demands on NATO to remove NATO troops from two NATO member countries namely Romania and Bulgaria. The threat isn't from the NATO forces in these countries but are there to defend these sovereign nations. I'm hoping that severe sanctions will de escalate the situation. That is my concern as well. What is the big picture here? And why does Putin have any leverage to demand anything? I worry that this will turn into a huge problem, and that China wjll side with Russia. This is just my opinion, and I am no expert. I think that Putin counted on NATO being fractured-and thus Putin figured that they would not unify. I suspect that the US withdrawal from Afghanistan made Putin think that Biden would blink. NATO has unified and Biden did not blink. Would the US send forces into Ukraine? I doubt it, since it is not a NATO country and is not of strategic importance to the US. That is very cold-blooded, but is probably true. But a strong message is being sent not to mess with NATO countries, which Poland, etc, are probably happy about They remember life under the USSR, and are not interested in becoming a Putin satellite. And again, just my opinion, but I think that Putin, much like Hitler, wants more territory. He remembers the USSR, and would very much like to bring those days back. And that would not be in Europe or the US’s best interests.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,237
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Feb 3, 2022 14:16:32 GMT
My DS has an online friendship with a Russian girl, and he asked her what she thought about the situation. At first she said she didn’t really know much, as she doesn’t follow politics and doesn’t watch much TV. DS told her about what was happening and how it is being viewed in Europe and "the West". She came back a few hours later having spoken to some friends and family. What she then told DS was that Ukraine had been threatening to invade Russia (!) and that Russia was a peaceful nation that did not like conflict, so DS had obviously got it wrong. It seems like brainwashing is an issue in other parts of the world too. 😉 A particular interest lead me to regularly read a Russian webpage which although has nothing to do with politics, occasionally people will comment. I noticed the exact same thing you did.
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Post by fruitysuet on Feb 3, 2022 14:48:34 GMT
That is my concern as well. What is the big picture here? And why does Putin have any leverage to demand anything? I worry that this will turn into a huge problem, and that China wjll side with Russia. Gas and oil supply pipelines - a significant part of the European population rely on importing these from Russia. And, yeah, I think he's a power freak too with my very limited knowledge of Russian politics. You let him take over one country and he'll keep on at it with others.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 3, 2022 14:57:43 GMT
That is my concern as well. What is the big picture here? And why does Putin have any leverage to demand anything? I worry that this will turn into a huge problem, and that China wjll side with Russia. This is just my opinion, and I am no expert. I think that Putin counted on NATO being fractured-and thus Putin figured that they would not unify. I suspect that the US withdrawal from Afghanistan made Putin think that Biden would blink. NATO has unified and Biden did not blink. Would the US send forces into Ukraine? I doubt it, since it is not a NATO country and is not of strategic importance to the US. That is very cold-blooded, but is probably true. But a strong message is being sent not to mess with NATO countries, which Poland, etc, are probably happy about They remember life under the USSR, and are not interested in becoming a Putin satellite. And again, just my opinion, but I think that Putin, much like Hitler, wants more territory. He remembers the USSR, and would very much like to bring those days back. And that would not be in Europe or the US’s best interests. He seemed to be counting on Trump to fracture NATO sufficiently during his term. Hence, Trumps semi-treasonous talk about pulling the US out of it. (I say that because it was clearly not in the US’s best interest to even consider that).
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Post by gar on Feb 3, 2022 15:55:35 GMT
And, yeah, I think he's a power freak too with my very limited knowledge of Russian politics. You let him take over one country and he'll keep on at it with others. Yup, world domination and all that appeals to him no end, it would seem.
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Post by peano on Feb 3, 2022 18:06:36 GMT
This just in from WaPo:
U.S. to allege Russian plot to stage attack as pretext for Ukraine invasion By Ellen Nakashima, Shane Harris, Ashley Parker and John Hudson
U.S. officials say they have evidence that Russia has developed a plan, approved at high levels in Moscow, to create a pretext for invading Ukraine by falsely pinning an attack on Ukrainian forces that could involve alleged casualties not only in eastern Ukraine but also in Russia.
The details of the plan have been declassified by U.S. intelligence and are expected to be revealed Thursday by the Biden administration, said four people familiar with the matter. The administration last month warned that the Russian government had sent operatives into eastern Ukraine, possibly in preparation for sabotage operations.
The alleged operation the United States plans to expose would involve broadcasting images of civilian casualties in eastern Ukraine — and potentially over the border in Russia — to a wide audience to drum up outrage against the Ukrainian government and create a pretext for invasion, two of the people said. It was unclear if the casualties would be real or faked, one U.S. official said.
The people familiar with the plan said it was formulated by Russian security services and is in the advanced stages of preparation.
The plan is related to but separate from other plots that have been disclosed by Western intelligence, including Russia’s placement of saboteurs in eastern Ukraine and another alleged scheme, revealed last month by the British government, to destabilize the Ukrainian government and install a pro-Russian figure at its head, officials said.
“They’re all related, of course, but this is a specific operation designed to create a potential pretext,” said one U.S. official, who, like others, did not provide the underlying evidence for the alleged plot but had been briefed on the matter. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence.
The allegation of advanced plotting by Russia comes as Washington and its allies try to expose Moscow’s planning for a potential invasion in real time, in the hope of complicating the Kremlin’s designs on its neighbor.
Russia has massed more than 100,000 troops around the borders of Ukraine, prompting the Biden administration to warn that Russian President Vladimir Putin could send his forces into Ukrainian territory at any moment. The White House has said the United States does not have an indication that Putin has made a decision to invade but says it has evidence of advanced planning by the Russian government.
The Kremlin has denied that Russian forces are preparing to invade Ukraine, saying that Moscow has the right to move troops around Russia domestically as it wishes.
In recent weeks, Russian troops and materiel have been flowing into neighboring Belarus, which shares a 674-mile border with Ukraine, in preparation for the second stage of joint Russian-Belarusian exercises slated to begin Feb. 10. Military analysts worry that the exercises could be a ruse to position Russian forces along Ukraine’s northern border in advance of a new invasion.
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Post by hopemax on Feb 3, 2022 18:15:08 GMT
I don’t think Putin wants a full-on invasion / war. That would be too expensive. But I do think he wants another Crimea. A situation where he can absorb pro-Russian Ukrainian provinces on the Eastern border. It’s a calculation of how much and how fast he can take without provoking a large response from the West. Ukraine is too valuable to Europe to let Russia have it all. But if he takes piecemeal… I expect the West will let him, because the citizenry doesn’t care about borders, and threats to democracy as much as fretting about how far their money goes to purchase things, and if stores are stocked. He’s counting on our fear of a large offensive, it would be wildly unpopular and cause more political chaos here, to get away with smaller power grabs.
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Post by mom on Feb 3, 2022 18:15:08 GMT
There is far more to be concerned about Russian's intentions than just the fact that Ukraine has requested to join Nato. If Russian is allowed to " walk in " to Ukraine then the whole of Europe is under threat. Russia have already deployed more troops and military equipment to Belarus that at any time in the last 30 years. No country( Poland) would feel safe with 100,000 troops just over it's border. If they were allowed to invade Ukraine then it would be Poland/Romania/Hungary next. Where would it end? Russia have already made demands on NATO to remove NATO troops from two NATO member countries namely Romania and Bulgaria. The threat isn't from the NATO forces in these countries but are there to defend these sovereign nations. I'm hoping that severe sanctions will de escalate the situation. I agree with all of this. Ukraine is just the tip of the iceberg to see what Russia can get away with. This absolutely has to be stopped.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 3, 2022 19:45:07 GMT
Interesting article by Edward Luce, who is also a good Twitter follow. www.ft.com/content/d67a8e43-8edb-4f1d-8cd8-168539e07598First paragraph: “So much for America’s shift from the Atlantic to the Indo-Pacific. By demanding concessions that have shocked a divided and rudderless Europe, Russian president Vladimir Putin has united the west behind US leadership. It has been years since that sentence could be written with a straight face. Russia has brought about what it fears — a west that is displaying something approaching resolve. As a result, US president Joe Biden now finds himself on the front lines of two potential cold wars, one in eastern Europe, the other in the South China Sea.”
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 3, 2022 19:47:17 GMT
I don’t think Putin wants a full-on invasion / war. That would be too expensive. But I do think he wants another Crimea. A situation where he can absorb pro-Russian Ukrainian provinces on the Eastern border. It’s a calculation of how much and how fast he can take without provoking a large response from the West. Ukraine is too valuable to Europe to let Russia have it all. But if he takes piecemeal… I expect the West will let him, because the citizenry doesn’t care about borders, and threats to democracy as much as fretting about how far their money goes to purchase things, and if stores are stocked. He’s counting on our fear of a large offensive, it would be wildly unpopular and cause more political chaos here, to get away with smaller power grabs. I’m not sure about the population at large, but I personally don’t think Putin should be allowed to “take” parts is Ukraine.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 4, 2022 19:25:15 GMT
I don’t think Putin wants a full-on invasion / war. That would be too expensive. But I do think he wants another Crimea. A situation where he can absorb pro-Russian Ukrainian provinces on the Eastern border. It’s a calculation of how much and how fast he can take without provoking a large response from the West. Ukraine is too valuable to Europe to let Russia have it all. But if he takes piecemeal… I expect the West will let him, because the citizenry doesn’t care about borders, and threats to democracy as much as fretting about how far their money goes to purchase things, and if stores are stocked. He’s counting on our fear of a large offensive, it would be wildly unpopular and cause more political chaos here, to get away with smaller power grabs. I think this thinking vastly underestimated just how emboldened he is and how much he’s gotten away with in the last 10-15 years. I also think it underestimates the Ukrainians. We’re not talking Soviet Chernobyl era Ukraine anymore.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 4, 2022 20:32:10 GMT
My DS has an online friendship with a Russian girl, and he asked her what she thought about the situation. At first she said she didn’t really know much, as she doesn’t follow politics and doesn’t watch much TV. DS told her about what was happening and how it is being viewed in Europe and "the West". She came back a few hours later having spoken to some friends and family. What she then told DS was that Ukraine had been threatening to invade Russia (!) and that Russia was a peaceful nation that did not like conflict, so DS had obviously got it wrong. It seems like brainwashing is an issue in other parts of the world too. 😉 With the latest reports that Russia was trying to stage a fake attack to make people think Ukraine attacked Russia, I am really curious what her reasons were for her response. What kind of propaganda was she seeing already a few days ago?
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 3:55:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 21:32:59 GMT
What do you think will happen there? What is it that Putin wants? Are you happy with the response from the US and other countries so far? The Ukraine has talked about joining NATO. Putin sees that as a threat to Russia's security as NATO will likely put bases in the Ukraine if they join. Having US and European military based that close to them is a very real securcity threat. Same as if part of Canada decided to join an alliance with China/Russia and put their armies at our border. The Ukraine also has a wealth of oil and various minerals that will be cut off to Russia or if not cut off, at least sold to the highest bidder. There are NATO troops already stationed in Latvia and Estonia and have been for a few years. Both countries border Russia.
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