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Post by onelasttime on Feb 4, 2022 20:06:45 GMT
From The NY Times article..
“G.O.P. Declares Jan. 6 Attack ‘Legitimate Political Discourse’
“The Republican National Committee voted to censure Representatives Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for participating in the inquiry into the deadly riot at the Capitol.
WASHINGTON — The Republican Party on Friday officially declared the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol and events that led to it “legitimate political discourse,” formally rebuking two lawmakers in the party who have been most outspoken in condemning the deadly riot and the role of Donald J. Trump in spreading the election lies that fueled it.
The Republican National Committee’s overwhelming voice vote to censure Representatives Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois at its winter meeting in Salt Lake City culminated more than a year of vacillation, which started with party leaders condemning the Capitol attack and Mr. Trump’s conduct, then shifted to downplaying and denying it.
On Friday, the party went further in a resolution slamming Ms. Cheney and Mr. Kinzinger for taking part in the House investigation of the assault, saying they were participating in “persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse.”
It was an extraordinary statement about the deadliest attack on the Capitol in 200 years, in which a mob of Mr. Trump’s supporters stormed the complex, brutalizing police officers and sending lawmakers into hiding. Nine people died in connection with the attack and more than 150 officers were injured. The party passed the resolution without discussion and almost without dissent.”
I got nothing.
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 4, 2022 20:10:41 GMT
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 4, 2022 20:15:10 GMT
They aren't going to stop until/unless the main characters within the GOP are arrested and in jail. Then they will move from denial to disingenuous shock at what the bad guys did.
Joe Walsh had an interesting tweet yesterday.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 4, 2022 20:20:42 GMT
Not so sure I want to see their 'new'...
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,069
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Feb 4, 2022 20:24:23 GMT
And yet he's still part of the party. The mental gymnastics people go thru to justify this party is mind boggling.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Feb 4, 2022 20:26:06 GMT
here's what I got: the Republicans apparently no longer believe in a democratically elected government 'by the people, for the people' by the look of this. Also disgust. I also have a HUGE amount of disgust that the Republican Party would actually do this. THIS is what they stand for... srsly?!? (and thus, what they DON'T stand for any longer.) EVERY one who votes Republican needs to think about THIS when they cast their vote.
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 4, 2022 20:47:58 GMT
How can this be…
If they ignore this…
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 13:43:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 20:52:43 GMT
The mental gymnastics people go thru to justify this party is mind boggling. They're used to it. Cognitive dissonance is strong w/believers. It has to be to navigate the internal inconsistencies of their worldviews vs. reality.
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 4, 2022 20:59:15 GMT
The spin begins…
From the tweet above “Unfortunately, this committee has gone well beyond the scope of the events of that day.”
Just exactly how has the committee “gone well beyond the scope of events that day”.
Of course no one will ask her to her face and wait until she answers.
It’s really very simple. If the Republicans that are being subpoenaed by the 1/6 Committee have nothing to hide they should answer all questions without claiming the Fifth. To do otherwise suggests they are indeed hiding something.
I mean if there’s nothing there then there is nothing there so answer the questions.
You know kind of like Hillary Clinton did for 11 hours.
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
......
Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Feb 4, 2022 21:02:05 GMT
Debate Club rules may have changed, but I'm pretty sure bashing in heads never was and never will be allowed.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 4, 2022 21:02:12 GMT
And yet he's still part of the party. The mental gymnastics people go thru to justify this party is mind boggling. Too late Mitt!
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 4, 2022 22:32:40 GMT
I really think that their condemnation of it right after it happened should be repeated often and loudly. Ted Cruz and they others that said it was domestic terrorism should be repeated with the date they said it. This along with footage from the day that makes it clear it wasn’t a few peaceful tourists.
I just don’t understand how so few can speak out against this.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 13:43:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 22:37:58 GMT
We're in 1930 Germany - between the first failed violent takeover of the government and the "legitimate" election of the Nazis - bringing with it the "extermination" of the "undesirables".
WTFU people.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 4, 2022 23:19:50 GMT
They were”tourists.”
“They were “Democrats.”
They were citizens engaging in “legitimate public discourse.”
Then, pray tell, what were the bear spray and the noose for? Do Republicans think that “legitimate public discourse” includes smearing feces on walls and beating policemen? Stealing things?
What a steaming pile of dung.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 13:43:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 0:45:22 GMT
Any thoughts on why today Pence finally spoke up. I have a few myself. What I find interesting is the timing of it all.
NYT "Trump is wrong" Pence saysFormer Vice President Mike Pence said in a speech on Friday that he had no right to overturn the 2020 election, as the former president has falsely claimed.
Former Vice President Mike Pence on Friday offered his most forceful rebuke of Donald J. Trump, saying the former president is “wrong” that Mr. Pence had the legal authority to change the results of the 2020 election and that the Republican Party must accept the outcome and look toward the future. Speaking to a gathering of conservatives near Orlando, Fla., the former vice president said he understands “the disappointment so many feel about the last election” but repudiated Mr. Trump’s false claims that Mr. Pence could reject the Electoral College results and alter the outcome last year. “President Trump is wrong,” said Mr. Pence, in his remarks before the Federalist Society, a conservative legal organization. “I had no right to overturn the election.” The comments marked the strongest rejection of Mr. Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election by his former vice president. Mr. Pence refused to give in on Jan. 6 to Mr. Trump’s pressure campaign to change the results. Since then, he has remained relatively quiet about that decision, largely declining to directly attack Mr. Trump or assign him any blame for inciting the deadly siege on the Capitol. In public appearances last year, Mr. Pence defended his role in resisting Mr. Trump but did not go further than saying that the two men will never “see eye to eye about that day.” But tensions between them have been rising in recent days. As Mr. Pence positions himself for a possible presidential bid in 2024, Mr. Trump has pushed more intensely a false narrative aimed at blaming his former vice president for failing to stop President Biden from taking office. Mr. Pence cast his opposition on Friday as larger than the immediate political moment, implying that the false claims pushed by Mr. Trump and his followers threatened to undermine American democracy. “The truth is there’s more at stake than our party or our political fortunes,” he said. “If we lose faith in the Constitution, we won’t just lose elections — we’ll lose our country.” In a speech that largely focused on attacking the policies and record of the Biden administration, Mr. Pence described Jan. 6 as a “dark day” in Washington. Such a description runs counter to an attempt by some on the right to rewrite history by describing the siege as a peaceful rally and by calling the rioters “political prisoners.” And he urged Mr. Trump and his party to accept the results of the last election. “Whatever the future holds, I know we did our duty that day,” Mr. Pence said. “I believe the time has come to focus on the future.” But Mr. Pence stopped short of completely breaking with the right-wing base that remains deeply influenced by Mr. Trump. Mr. Pence did not explicitly say that Mr. Trump lost the election and he declined to address the false claims of election fraud still being pushed by the former president and his supporters. The carefully constructed wording of his rebuke shows an effort by Mr. Pence to defend his own actions on Jan. 6, while not completely alienating a Republican base that remains animated by conspiracy theories of a stolen election. Their support could be crucial in any 2024 primary contest. His comments came just hours after the Republican Party voted to censure two Republican lawmakers for taking part in the House investigation of the Jan. 6 attack. The lawmakers, Representatives Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, were censured for participating in what the party’s resolution described as the “persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse.” Legal scholars and officials from both parties say the vice president does not have the power to overturn elections. Mr. Pence agrees with that interpretation of the law: In a letter to Congress sent the morning of the Capitol attack, Mr. Pence rejected the president’s claims, writing that the Constitution “constrains me from claiming unilateral authority to determine which electoral votes should be counted and which should not.” On Sunday, Mr. Trump falsely claimed that Mr. Pence could have “overturned the election” in a statement denouncing a bipartisan push to rewrite the Electoral Count Act of 1887. The former president and his allies misinterpreted that century-old law in their failed bid to persuade Mr. Pence to throw out legitimate election results. And on Tuesday, Mr. Trump said that the congressional committee investigating the role of his administration in the violent Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol should instead examine “why Mike Pence did not send back the votes for recertification or approval.” Mr. Trump’s attempts to influence his vice president have become a focus of the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack, with some members seeing the participation of Mr. Pence’s team as vital to deciding whether it has sufficient evidence to make a criminal referral of Mr. Trump to the Justice Department. Two of Mr. Pence’s aides testified privately before the committee this week and Mr. Pence’s lawyer and the panel have been talking informally about whether the former vice president would be willing to speak to investigators. The Justice Department has also been examining the ways in which Mr. Trump’s attacks on Mr. Pence influenced the mob. In recent plea negotiations in some Jan. 6 cases, prosecutors have asked defense lawyers whether their clients would admit in sworn statements that they stormed the Capitol believing that Mr. Trump wanted them to stop Mr. Pence from certifying the election. As the attackers raided the Capitol that day, some chanted “Hang Mike Pence.” Mr. Trump initially brushed aside calls from aides and allies to call them off. Since then, Mr. Trump has defended the chants as understandable because, as he said in an interview with Jonathan Karl of ABC News, “the people were very angry” about the election.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 5, 2022 1:08:10 GMT
Any thoughts on why today Pence finally spoke up. I have a few myself. What I find interesting is the timing of it all.
NYT "Trump is wrong" Pence saysFormer Vice President Mike Pence said in a speech on Friday that he had no right to overturn the 2020 election, as the former president has falsely claimed.
Former Vice President Mike Pence on Friday offered his most forceful rebuke of Donald J. Trump, saying the former president is “wrong” that Mr. Pence had the legal authority to change the results of the 2020 election and that the Republican Party must accept the outcome and look toward the future. Speaking to a gathering of conservatives near Orlando, Fla., the former vice president said he understands “the disappointment so many feel about the last election” but repudiated Mr. Trump’s false claims that Mr. Pence could reject the Electoral College results and alter the outcome last year. “President Trump is wrong,” said Mr. Pence, in his remarks before the Federalist Society, a conservative legal organization. “I had no right to overturn the election.” The comments marked the strongest rejection of Mr. Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election by his former vice president. Mr. Pence refused to give in on Jan. 6 to Mr. Trump’s pressure campaign to change the results. Since then, he has remained relatively quiet about that decision, largely declining to directly attack Mr. Trump or assign him any blame for inciting the deadly siege on the Capitol. In public appearances last year, Mr. Pence defended his role in resisting Mr. Trump but did not go further than saying that the two men will never “see eye to eye about that day.” But tensions between them have been rising in recent days. As Mr. Pence positions himself for a possible presidential bid in 2024, Mr. Trump has pushed more intensely a false narrative aimed at blaming his former vice president for failing to stop President Biden from taking office. Mr. Pence cast his opposition on Friday as larger than the immediate political moment, implying that the false claims pushed by Mr. Trump and his followers threatened to undermine American democracy. “The truth is there’s more at stake than our party or our political fortunes,” he said. “If we lose faith in the Constitution, we won’t just lose elections — we’ll lose our country.” In a speech that largely focused on attacking the policies and record of the Biden administration, Mr. Pence described Jan. 6 as a “dark day” in Washington. Such a description runs counter to an attempt by some on the right to rewrite history by describing the siege as a peaceful rally and by calling the rioters “political prisoners.” And he urged Mr. Trump and his party to accept the results of the last election. “Whatever the future holds, I know we did our duty that day,” Mr. Pence said. “I believe the time has come to focus on the future.” But Mr. Pence stopped short of completely breaking with the right-wing base that remains deeply influenced by Mr. Trump. Mr. Pence did not explicitly say that Mr. Trump lost the election and he declined to address the false claims of election fraud still being pushed by the former president and his supporters. The carefully constructed wording of his rebuke shows an effort by Mr. Pence to defend his own actions on Jan. 6, while not completely alienating a Republican base that remains animated by conspiracy theories of a stolen election. Their support could be crucial in any 2024 primary contest. His comments came just hours after the Republican Party voted to censure two Republican lawmakers for taking part in the House investigation of the Jan. 6 attack. The lawmakers, Representatives Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, were censured for participating in what the party’s resolution described as the “persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse.” Legal scholars and officials from both parties say the vice president does not have the power to overturn elections. Mr. Pence agrees with that interpretation of the law: In a letter to Congress sent the morning of the Capitol attack, Mr. Pence rejected the president’s claims, writing that the Constitution “constrains me from claiming unilateral authority to determine which electoral votes should be counted and which should not.” On Sunday, Mr. Trump falsely claimed that Mr. Pence could have “overturned the election” in a statement denouncing a bipartisan push to rewrite the Electoral Count Act of 1887. The former president and his allies misinterpreted that century-old law in their failed bid to persuade Mr. Pence to throw out legitimate election results. And on Tuesday, Mr. Trump said that the congressional committee investigating the role of his administration in the violent Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol should instead examine “why Mike Pence did not send back the votes for recertification or approval.” Mr. Trump’s attempts to influence his vice president have become a focus of the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack, with some members seeing the participation of Mr. Pence’s team as vital to deciding whether it has sufficient evidence to make a criminal referral of Mr. Trump to the Justice Department. Two of Mr. Pence’s aides testified privately before the committee this week and Mr. Pence’s lawyer and the panel have been talking informally about whether the former vice president would be willing to speak to investigators. The Justice Department has also been examining the ways in which Mr. Trump’s attacks on Mr. Pence influenced the mob. In recent plea negotiations in some Jan. 6 cases, prosecutors have asked defense lawyers whether their clients would admit in sworn statements that they stormed the Capitol believing that Mr. Trump wanted them to stop Mr. Pence from certifying the election. As the attackers raided the Capitol that day, some chanted “Hang Mike Pence.” Mr. Trump initially brushed aside calls from aides and allies to call them off. Since then, Mr. Trump has defended the chants as understandable because, as he said in an interview with Jonathan Karl of ABC News, “the people were very angry” about the election. I’m wondering if he’s going to try to get the R nomination for 2024. And if Trump were to get indicted, that might help Pence. Who knows, but that seems plausible.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 13:43:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 1:27:15 GMT
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Post by hop2 on Feb 5, 2022 2:06:25 GMT
They aren't going to stop until/unless the main characters within the GOP are arrested and in jail. Then they will move from denial to disingenuous shock at what the bad guys did. Joe Walsh had an interesting tweet yesterday. Either he’s right OR our democracy is dying/dead
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Post by hop2 on Feb 5, 2022 2:13:20 GMT
They were”tourists.” “They were “Democrats.” They were citizens engaging in “legitimate public discourse.” Then, pray tell, what were the bear spray and the noose for? Do Republicans think that “legitimate public discourse” includes smearing feces on walls and beating policemen? Stealing things? What a steaming pile of dung. Hey, no worries, Trump recently brought up the subject of Pence’s ‘treason’ on 1/6/21 and yet if you ask Pence he will double down on his support of the man who is once again egging his supporters to do something about Pence. Hey, Pence, did you never hear the quote “once people show you who they are, believe them?” Dude, the gallows was for you on 1/6/21 wake the fuck up.
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 5, 2022 2:27:44 GMT
Any thoughts on why today Pence finally spoke up. I have a few myself. What I find interesting is the timing of it all. His people were talking to the Jan 6th committee this week and I think Pence is feeling comfortable that TFG will be too busy with his legal problems to run for the nomination. IIRC, the RNC has also been making noise about no longer sending TFG money for legal bills. Pence has no hope of being on the GOP ticket unless he runs himself and he wants to be on the top of the ticket. If TFG is out of the picture, the field will be pretty crowded and I personally don't think he has a hope of getting anywhere.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 5, 2022 2:34:43 GMT
Any thoughts on why today Pence finally spoke up. I have a few myself. What I find interesting is the timing of it all. His people were talking to the Jan 6th committee this week and I think Pence is feeling comfortable that TFG will be too busy with his legal problems to run for the nomination. IIRC, the RNC has also been making noise about no longer sending TFG money for legal bills. Pence has no hope of being on the GOP ticket unless he runs himself and he wants to be on the top of the ticket. If TFG is out of the picture, the field will be pretty crowded and I personally don't think he has a hope of getting anywhere. Me either, TBH. It’s looking like DeSantis would be the frontrunner-for now.
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 5, 2022 2:54:56 GMT
Me either, TBH. It’s looking like DeSantis would be the frontrunner-for now. I'm hoping he gets caught up in the Matt Gaetz fall out and am curious to see where the story about his emails with Clarence Thomas goes. So many GOP itching to run and will happily abandon TFG when the dam breaks. Some, like Cruz, Cotton & Hawley, I hope get caught up with insurrection charges and others like Pompeo, Christie and Haley will not hesitate to destroy Pence for their own ambitions. And then you have a couple hopefuls that do speak out against TFG like Kasich and Hogan and the guys have been trying to sit out this GOP chapter quietly like Sasse and Ryan.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 5, 2022 3:00:34 GMT
Me either, TBH. It’s looking like DeSantis would be the frontrunner-for now. I'm hoping he gets caught up in the Matt Gaetz fall out and am curious to see where the story about his emails with Clarence Thomas goes. So many GOP itching to run and will happily abandon TFG when the dam breaks. Some, like Cruz, Cotton & Hawley, I hope get caught up with insurrection charges and others like Pompeo, Christie and Haley will not hesitate to destroy Pence for their own ambitions. And then you have a couple hopefuls that do speak out against TFG like Kasich and Hogan and the guys have been trying to sit out this GOP chapter quietly like Sasse and Ryan. It’s going to be so interesting. I don’t think-right now-that Cruz, Cotton or Hawley have a prayer. Likewise, none of the rest are likely unless something changes. But who knows what will happen in the next couple of years. Whats-her-name from South Carolina would also like to be President. I just blanked on her name.
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 5, 2022 3:15:32 GMT
Whats-her-name from South Carolina would also like to be President. I just blanked on her name. Haley - she is on my list. I don't think Cruz, Cotton or Hawley have a prayer either, but they all have ambition. And, good lordy, I didn't think TFG had a prayer so what do I know.
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Post by hop2 on Feb 5, 2022 4:53:02 GMT
His people were talking to the Jan 6th committee this week and I think Pence is feeling comfortable that TFG will be too busy with his legal problems to run for the nomination. IIRC, the RNC has also been making noise about no longer sending TFG money for legal bills. Pence has no hope of being on the GOP ticket unless he runs himself and he wants to be on the top of the ticket. If TFG is out of the picture, the field will be pretty crowded and I personally don't think he has a hope of getting anywhere. Me either, TBH. It’s looking like DeSantis would be the frontrunner-for now. Yeah, that’s what so many people were saying about Chris Christie in 2014, that didn’t work out well. Too much can happen. I’m hoping the result is better than it was then though.
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Post by sideways on Feb 5, 2022 5:16:16 GMT
Whats-her-name from South Carolina would also like to be President. I just blanked on her name. Nikki Haley. Another trump ass-kisser. No fucking way.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 5, 2022 10:16:10 GMT
Whats-her-name from South Carolina would also like to be President. I just blanked on her name. Haley - she is on my list. I don't think Cruz, Cotton or Hawley have a prayer either, but they all have ambition. And, good lordy, I didn't think TFG had a prayer so what do I know. Yeah, 2016 was maybe the worst surprise-or should I say shock?- of my life. That’s why I generally add qualifiers like “for now”. Too much can happen in the next couple of years. I still can’t believe that Trump was actually elected. It feels like a horrible dream. 😖
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 5, 2022 13:27:17 GMT
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,525
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Feb 5, 2022 13:58:47 GMT
I would like to say the 2 chuckleheads who aren't bothered by what the GOP is doing can offer their tribute to Hitler now. Democracy goes down, we all go down.
GOP enablists aren't special and unless you are an elite, you'll suffer along with all those you want to suffer.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 5, 2022 13:59:08 GMT
Can you tell that I am fixated on this topic, lol? But there is a lot of great information about it out there, and it is worth paying attention to. Greg Sargent makes a good point here. In essence, the GOP does not want Trump to be held accountable for Jan 6th. “The censure resolution is explicit on why Cheney and Kinzinger are seen as such heretics. It declares that they want to “destroy” Trump rather than help Republicans win the majority and that their committee is engaged in the “persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse.” This is an extraordinary and revealing set of claims. The Republican Party’s official, openly declared position is that its long-term prospects are inextricably bound up with securing total impunity for an effort to overthrow our political order at its very foundations. Not only that, the official party position is that those who sought to achieve this — including through mob intimidation and violence — are now to be seen as martyrs and heroes. Trump has succeeded in making this party orthodoxy.” “Republicans, of course, will protest that characterization. Oozing with phony piety, they will insist that of course they condemn the violence and believe it deserves prosecution; they object only to the committee’s onerous treatment of the nonviolent. We don’t have to accept this dodge. The official position being articulated here is that there’s no need for any national political accounting with regard to the role that Trump and his co-conspirators played in inciting that violence. In essence, Republicans want to decouple the violence from the orchestrators of it. The GOP’s official party position has become that the orchestrators of insurrection are above accountability entirely.” www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/04/gops-vile-new-punishment-liz-cheney-shows-trumps-true-impact/
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