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Post by hop2 on Feb 28, 2022 22:11:40 GMT
Another question about sanctions....are they indefinite, regardless of what happens in Ukraine at this point? Or if Russia would decide to just leave, would the sanctions be lifted? I know it Is unlikely that Putin will leave without "winning" something. But I was just curious if there are conditions on the sanctions. I think this is the crux of the problem. At any point Putin can withdraw his troops and pretend like nothing happened and what consequences if any would he suffer? Any sanctions would make the people suffer more than Putin |
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purplebee
Drama Llama
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Post by purplebee on Feb 28, 2022 22:11:47 GMT
I'm not sure if it was general " world/Europe" public criticism or Swiss public criticism that made them walk back on the decision they made Friday that the sanctions would only apply to new businesses. I'm guessing it's the latter - Swiss public criticism of their own government.
LINK
I’m just hearing about this, it’s amazingly wonderful! |
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Feb 28, 2022 22:18:20 GMT
Another question about sanctions....are they indefinite, regardless of what happens in Ukraine at this point? Or if Russia would decide to just leave, would the sanctions be lifted? I know it Is unlikely that Putin will leave without "winning" something. But I was just curious if there are conditions on the sanctions. I think this is the crux of the problem. At any point Putin can withdraw his troops and pretend like nothing happened and what consequences if any would he suffer? Any sanctions would make the people suffer more than Putin What's the normal scenario for this? I don't recall hearing many news stories beginning, "Sanctions were lifted today on such-and-such," although it obviously happens. Maybe because they're lifted in less startling situations, but, still. As for Putin, I suspect he'll face more consequences than he ever imagined. He's caused his cronies & his populace to think less of him by his actions, and there's a possibility of his facing charges of war crimes for his bombing of civilians. We shall see. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Post by pinklady on Feb 28, 2022 22:25:51 GMT
I am no fan of Marco Rubio but I agree with him on this. The longer Ukraine is able to defend themselves, the more desperate Putin will get.
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Post by onelasttime on Feb 28, 2022 22:30:31 GMT
I think he may be right..
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 28, 2022 22:33:20 GMT
I am no fan of Marco Rubio but I agree with him on this. The longer Ukraine is able to defend themselves, the more desperate Putin will get. I think that’s all of our biggest fear. I don’t see any way out for him. He needs to win or spin it into a “win” snd I don’t see that happening. He can’t just call this off at this point and not look like he lost. That’s important to him. He never thought he wouldn’t win. He is not out and about where someone could take him out- I’m thinking from one of his own at this point but don’t like what’s happening. I don’t see a way out and really fear what he will do but he also knows that if he does then everyone will really go after him but not sure how sane he is at this point. Scary freakin times. |
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 28, 2022 22:34:05 GMT
I think he may be right.. Yep. |
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Post by Merge on Feb 28, 2022 22:35:31 GMT
I think this is the crux of the problem. At any point Putin can withdraw his troops and pretend like nothing happened and what consequences if any would he suffer? Any sanctions would make the people suffer more than Putin What's the normal scenario for this? I don't recall hearing many news stories beginning, "Sanctions were lifted today on such-and-such," although it obviously happens. Maybe because they're lifted in less startling situations, but, still. As for Putin, I suspect he'll face more consequences than he ever imagined. He's caused his cronies & his populace to think less of him by his actions, and there's a possibility of his facing charges of war crimes for his bombing of civilians. We shall see. My husband thinks his own people will take him out. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 28, 2022 22:37:55 GMT
Merge your DH may be very well right! OH, oh,. They'll have a coup!! Hope former will be watching!!
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Post by lucyg on Feb 28, 2022 22:44:28 GMT
I don’t know. I seem to recall someone whose name begins with S or C. I believe Really Red ’s ex is Swiss, but she’s American? gar But I do think there was another pea from Switzerland. Can picture “her,” but can’t remember her pea name. ETA maybe carhoch? I kind of think there might be another one. |
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Feb 28, 2022 22:45:38 GMT
What's the normal scenario for this? I don't recall hearing many news stories beginning, "Sanctions were lifted today on such-and-such," although it obviously happens. Maybe because they're lifted in less startling situations, but, still. As for Putin, I suspect he'll face more consequences than he ever imagined. He's caused his cronies & his populace to think less of him by his actions, and there's a possibility of his facing charges of war crimes for his bombing of civilians. We shall see. My husband thinks his own people will take him out. Stranger things have happened. He's pretty paranoid, though. Attempts were made to take out Hitler, too. Maybe Putin will finish himself off, as Hitler eventually did. Seems odd for a megalomaniac to do, but the shame of failure may drive it. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 28, 2022 22:50:10 GMT
Gem Girl MergeI just heard, oh, Gen Honore(ret), say that Putin's generals could well take him out.
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Post by hopemax on Feb 28, 2022 23:11:36 GMT
I'm a INTJ, the first Google hit describes them as "thoughtless tacticians" others use masterminds. Traditionally, it sometimes makes it hard for empaths to watch how my mind works, people think I'm weird. So anyway, I have thought about what Putin's exit plan to failure is here. The ones everyone has talked about
Option A - He willingly retreats - VERRRRRY unlikely
Option B - Nuclear escalation - I still think this is unlikely for the traditional reasoning
Option C - Suicide - the Hitler solution
Option D - live by the sword/polonium/open window, die by the polonium/open window, a person close to him takes him out
Now here's where I wonder if I watch too much tv...
There are rumors he is unwell. Parkinson's, MS, cancer, they've all been suggested. And all the long tables have made people wonder if he is immunocompromised so Covid speeding up the process is a problem. So if you are a melomaniac, and you are facing a terminal illness, or just old age, what do you do... And then I started thinking about "suicide by cop." His preferred outcome is he restores Ukraine to the glorious empire, and if the West permits it, other former Soviet and Russian Empire areas as well. One final victory before death takes him. But if that fails, is a better death for him being taken out by someone? So now we're all trapped in his own Squid Game, to find out which one of his lieutenants or adversaries is cunning and strong enough to do it. Either in victory or defeat, he is remembered FOREVER.
And I wouldn't rule out his supposed ally in China, from being the one to arrange it. Taking Putin off the board leaves more for them. Putin served his usefulness by testing Western resolve. They probably don't like what they saw, so they need to proceed on the more economic, and diplomatic paths a little longer. Rumors of them being responsible for Putin's demise can help them with that too, with countries who turned to Russia because they don't trust the West.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 28, 2022 23:52:32 GMT
We may be doomed lucygPutin is compelled by God to take over Ukraine to join Egypt to invade and destroy Israel..The loons are all loose! Such great christians they are... www.rawstory.com/pat-robertson/ |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 28, 2022 23:59:10 GMT
So, if Putin was taken out, who would fake his place?
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Post by mom on Mar 1, 2022 0:00:58 GMT
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Post by mom on Mar 1, 2022 0:02:32 GMT
So, if Putin was taken out, who would fake his place? Mikhail Mishustin would take his place, in theory. Not sure he actually would though. He is the Prime Minister right now. Putin booted the previous PM when he decided he wanted to stay in office. |
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Post by Merge on Mar 1, 2022 0:46:18 GMT
Gem Girl MergeI just heard, oh, Gen Honore(ret), say that Putin's generals could well take him out. That’s what DH says, too. |
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Just T
Drama Llama
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Post by Just T on Mar 1, 2022 0:50:16 GMT
Someone who knows more than I do, what will happen to Putin if he does that? Is there any recourse/punishment for him? |
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Post by mom on Mar 1, 2022 0:52:40 GMT
Someone who knows more than I do, what will happen to Putin if he does that? Is there any recourse/punishment for him? im pretty sure it’s a war crime but Putin has already been committing those so I don’t think he will really care. |
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by carhoch on Mar 1, 2022 1:35:06 GMT
Good grief! That's amazing! They're freezing Russian assets - it's amazing! Do we have any Swiss peas? I would love to know how Swiss citizens are feeling about this, it's such a break from their history. I am a Swiss citizen and I am happy they are doing it and I think that most people agree with it . But it is a very big deal we have been neutral sense 1815 . |
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
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Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
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Post by carhoch on Mar 1, 2022 1:37:12 GMT
I don’t know. I seem to recall someone whose name begins with S or C. I believe Really Red ’s ex is Swiss, but she’s American? gar But I do think there was another pea from Switzerland. Can picture “her,” but can’t remember her pea name. ETA maybe carhoch ? I kind of think there might be another one. Yes I am 🇨🇭and very happy about theses sanctions. |
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Post by mom on Mar 1, 2022 2:19:29 GMT
I believe Really Red ’s ex is Swiss, but she’s American? gar But I do think there was another pea from Switzerland. Can picture “her,” but can’t remember her pea name. ETA maybe carhoch ? I kind of think there might be another one. Yes I am 🇨🇭and very happy about theses sanctions. Do you see this as the Swiss making an official change going forward and not aways be neutral or do you feel like its a one-off situation? |
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Post by mom on Mar 1, 2022 2:20:23 GMT
Well crap. There's a 40 mile long convoy going towards Kyiv now.
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Post by MichyM on Mar 1, 2022 2:41:42 GMT
I don'd exactly know why, but this statement made me gasp. This is just terrifying, and I feel horribly for those, who by no fault of their own, are targeted. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 1, 2022 2:53:25 GMT
I'm curious if people's thoughts on other countries giving military help to Ukraine has changed over the last week? If so, in what ways? Do you think that we (countries of the world) should be doing more? Especially with Putin sending in these huge convoys and talk of using thermobaric weapons? Or openly trying to kill Zelenskyy? I have mixed thoughts on this, and wondering what others are thinking.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Mar 1, 2022 3:07:02 GMT
Well crap. There's a 40 mile long convoy going towards Kyiv now. I’m going to be afraid to look at the news tomorrow morning. |
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Post by chaosisapony on Mar 1, 2022 3:22:45 GMT
I'm curious if people's thoughts on other countries giving military help to Ukraine has changed over the last week? If so, in what ways? Do you think that we (countries of the world) should be doing more? Especially with Putin sending in these huge convoys and talk of using thermobaric weapons? Or openly trying to kill Zelenskyy? I have mixed thoughts on this, and wondering what others are thinking. I have been disappointed for the entire week that we have not committed to helping Ukraine with, at a minimum, some air support. I have no doubt there are all kinds of smart people that understand why sending in planes, drones, or troops would be a bad idea but from where I sit it just seems like the right thing to do. |
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 1, 2022 3:30:18 GMT
I'm curious if people's thoughts on other countries giving military help to Ukraine has changed over the last week? If so, in what ways? Do you think that we (countries of the world) should be doing more? Especially with Putin sending in these huge convoys and talk of using thermobaric weapons? Or openly trying to kill Zelenskyy? I have mixed thoughts on this, and wondering what others are thinking. I have been disappointed for the entire week that we have not committed to helping Ukraine with, at a minimum, some air support. I have no doubt there are all kinds of smart people that understand why sending in planes, drones, or troops would be a bad idea but from where I sit it just seems like the right thing to do. World War III is the reason. Because it would turn into a conflict between the United States and Russia. IMO |
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Post by Scrapper100 on Mar 1, 2022 3:30:26 GMT
I'm curious if people's thoughts on other countries giving military help to Ukraine has changed over the last week? If so, in what ways? Do you think that we (countries of the world) should be doing more? Especially with Putin sending in these huge convoys and talk of using thermobaric weapons? Or openly trying to kill Zelenskyy? I have mixed thoughts on this, and wondering what others are thinking. I have been disappointed for the entire week that we have not committed to helping Ukraine with, at a minimum, some air support. I have no doubt there are all kinds of smart people that understand why sending in planes, drones, or troops would be a bad idea but from where I sit it just seems like the right thing to do. I thought they didn’t because that would raise it another level and lead to nukes possibly being used not that he isn’t threatening that anyway. Or that was what I thought they said. Now seeing the 40 mile convoy though it’s hard to not want them stopped at any cost but I know the big picture but dang. Im thinking will there be a city left standing in the morning? Those thermobaric or whatever just don’t seem humane to me not that war or killing someone is but those just don’t seem like they should be allowed to be used. Hoping they can keep them from making it to the city. |
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