Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Mar 10, 2022 22:44:36 GMT
iamkristinl16 I'm no expert, but I've been listening to the expert talking heads on TV. What I'm hearing from them is that most of the damage being done isn't coming from Russian aircraft dropping bombs, but from ground-based artillery fire. If that's correct, then the anti-tank weapons we've been sending are the most helpful. It's possible that those enduring this horror assume the shelling is coming from the air, since it seems to drop down on them. I'm sure that more knowledgeable Peas will correct me if I'm mistaken.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 10, 2022 22:50:37 GMT
Fromer Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch just stated that "Biden has done an 'amazing job' leading the alliance in the face of crisis"
That I consider high praise.
The full interview with Nicole Wallace will air next week in Peacock.
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Post by mom on Mar 10, 2022 22:51:59 GMT
But we aren’t just sitting around. We are helping by giving them guns and ammo. We are helping by having sanctions against Russia. Just because we aren’t going in, guns blazing, doesn’t mean we aren’t helping. We are looking at the big picture because the moment the USA steps foot in Ukraine to save today, we are forever changing the world. Because what’s happening is bad but it’s not as bad what will happen when Putin is pissed and blows up the entire world. I hope that giving them guns and ammo really is helping them. The news hasn’t covered as much of the military aspect of the war (as opposed to how it is affecting civilians) but most of what I have heard is that unless they have the no fly zone, there is little hope that Ukraine will hold the country in the end. If that is the case, and it is just prolonging the inevitable and causing more deaths, how helpful was that? Well you can’t rally have it both ways. Either we sit back and do nothing and millions are killed. Or we send them what we can and at least give them a chance at survival. Absolutely no one thought they’d last this long. No one also thought Russias military would be this big of a clusterxxxx. But supplying them guns and ammo has helped millions get to safety, even if Ukraine loses in the end. While no one wants to lose their home country, making it out alive by being able to get to safety is better than dying. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 10, 2022 22:58:28 GMT
Ukraine could lose this war for now but they will never surrender to Putin.
Kherson is presently occupied by Russians (Putin's personal military police, actual police officers.. patroling the streets) 400 people have already been detained.
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MSNBC just showed Ukrainian military defusing a bomb. Big at least 9-12 inches across. Didn't see how long. So there is some bombing. Although I don't think too much yet...
We are sending more anti-tank munitions and more.
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Of course, there is a not so small group of Republicans who are stating that they will not vote for more aid for Ukraine.
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Post by mom on Mar 10, 2022 23:24:19 GMT
I just saw this on FB and it took my breath away.  |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 10, 2022 23:27:32 GMT
I hope that giving them guns and ammo really is helping them. The news hasn’t covered as much of the military aspect of the war (as opposed to how it is affecting civilians) but most of what I have heard is that unless they have the no fly zone, there is little hope that Ukraine will hold the country in the end. If that is the case, and it is just prolonging the inevitable and causing more deaths, how helpful was that? Well you can’t rally have it both ways. Either we sit back and do nothing and millions are killed. Or we send them what we can and at least give them a chance at survival. Absolutely no one thought they’d last this long. No one also thought Russias military would be this big of a clusterxxxx. But supplying them guns and ammo has helped millions get to safety, even if Ukraine loses in the end. While no one wants to lose their home country, making it out alive by being able to get to safety is better than dying. I understand that. I am not saying that we shouldn't give them any guns, ammo or other military supplies. It is just something that I was thinking about today, in terms of the long term aspects of all of this. I don't think that we should stop helping, and it is a good point that many have gotten out in this two weeks, but in the end I don't think it will be enough. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 10, 2022 23:28:24 GMT
More on Republicans Republicans may say they oppose Putin -- but they keep siding with the Russian dictator over Democrats and democracyAmanda Marcotte, Salon March 10, 2022 Even the GOP's anti-vaccine strategy is coming back to hurt the Ukrainian cause. A Navy ship the U.S. wishes to deploy, likely to support NATO defenses in European waters, is being stalled because a Republican judge won't let the Biden administration remove the commanding officer. officer lost the trust of the government and his crew by being an anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist. "Anti-vaxx nut" is apparently a protected class to Republicans now, so they're willing to tank national security in order to perpetuate this conspiracy theory.Republicans are making their priorities clear. Sure, they say they believe in Ukraine's fight for democracy and sovereignty, but they're not willing to do much to stand up for that cause, especially if doing so means playing nice with Biden or, at the very least, not giving wild-eyed Putin lovers grist for their mills. It's the same problem we've seen with Republicans and Trump for years. Sure, some of them will criticize him or, however briefly, push back against some of his nuttier ideas. But when push comes to shove, Republicans will always stand by Trump's side, even though he literally attempted to overthrow American democracy. So why shouldn't they have the same approach to Putin's attempts to overthrow Ukrainian democracy? www.rawstory.com/republicans-may-say-they-oppose-putin-but-they-keep-siding-with-the-russian-dictator-over-democrats-and-democracy/ |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 10, 2022 23:29:01 GMT
I just saw this on FB and it took my breath away. Seeing that just gave me shivers!! |
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 10, 2022 23:29:22 GMT
The next step…
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 10, 2022 23:33:05 GMT
iamkristinl16 I'm no expert, but I've been listening to the expert talking heads on TV. What I'm hearing from them is that most of the damage being done isn't coming from Russian aircraft dropping bombs, but from ground-based artillery fire. If that's correct, then the anti-tank weapons we've been sending are the most helpful. It's possible that those enduring this horror assume the shelling is coming from the air, since it seems to drop down on them. I'm sure that more knowledgeable Peas will correct me if I'm mistaken. I hope that is true. Every day I see members of the Ukrainian government on TV begging for a no-fly zone, so I assume they believe it would help them greatly. |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456 
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 10, 2022 23:37:21 GMT
iamkristinl16 I'm no expert, but I've been listening to the expert talking heads on TV. What I'm hearing from them is that most of the damage being done isn't coming from Russian aircraft dropping bombs, but from ground-based artillery fire. If that's correct, then the anti-tank weapons we've been sending are the most helpful. It's possible that those enduring this horror assume the shelling is coming from the air, since it seems to drop down on them. I'm sure that more knowledgeable Peas will correct me if I'm mistaken. That’s right. From what I understand, from much smarter people than me, that because of how the fighting is playing out, planes wouldn’t have been as much use to them, as ground artillery that shoots down projectiles and destroys ground forces will be. |
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 10, 2022 23:43:25 GMT
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 10, 2022 23:56:37 GMT
But we aren’t just sitting around. We are helping by giving them guns and ammo. We are helping by having sanctions against Russia. Just because we aren’t going in, guns blazing, doesn’t mean we aren’t helping. We are looking at the big picture because the moment the USA steps foot in Ukraine to save today, we are forever changing the world. Because what’s happening is bad but it’s not as bad what will happen when Putin is pissed and blows up the entire world. I hope that giving them guns and ammo really is helping them. The news hasn’t covered as much of the military aspect of the war (as opposed to how it is affecting civilians) but most of what I have heard is that unless they have the no fly zone, there is little hope that Ukraine will hold the country in the end. If that is the case, and it is just prolonging the inevitable and causing more deaths, how helpful was that? People throw no fly zone around like it means simply stopping planes flying over Ukraine airspace. I wasn’t sure what it would involve myself, so I asked a knowledgeable person what it would entail for it to be effective. The extreme reluctance to establish one comes from the fact it is not a purely defensive act at all. It would involve not only repelling aircraft from entering, it would involve destroying anti- aircraft installations in Belarus and Russia. Can you imagine Belarus or Russia not seeing that as direct confrontation and reason to escalate? That would be giving them exactly what they ask for. I don’t blame zelenskyy asking for it at all, he has his people (who are under attack) to answer to, and asking for that publicly means diplomatically you’re likely to get the *lesser* stuff you really do want/need. I feel sorry for them as a country. They are a country that has a nearly thousand year long history of being constantly invaded. They want to be their own country, and want to get out of the Russian influence of many things that hangs over them, they want self determination and a better future for their children, and they’re constantly having their future determined by everyone else, because of it. They’re not alone in that, but it must be absolutely maddening to be in that position repeatedly. |
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
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Post by pyccku on Mar 10, 2022 23:57:25 GMT
No one also thought Russias military would be this big of a clusterxxxx. You'd be surprised that there were people who thought they would be EXACTLY this bad. ( watch this video from April 2021) The thing with Russia is that it is incredibly corrupt. Always has been, always will be. This goes all the way from the top to the bottom and then back up from the bottom to the top. Government budget $10 million for widgets for the soldiers. Of course that means $9 million after the top guy takes his cut. He's going to award the contract to his buddy, who will take his share. Then the actual factor managers each need their little bit. By the time you get to the guy on the factory floor, it may be $5 million. You make the widgets and every guy on the floor takes a few because he's not paid enough, and who's going to notice a couple of missing widgets anyway? So $10 million for 300,000 widgets eventually becomes $5 million for 150,000 widgets. So what happens when the top guy finds out there are only 150,000 widgets? Nothing, because he doesn't find out. The floor guy reports 100 widgets (there are really only 60). The manager knows there's only 60, but he can't tell his boss that, he'll get in trouble. His boss knows - but can't tell the regional guy, so he lies as well. Pretty much everyone up the chain lies to cover for what they don't want to admit - there aren't as many widgets and they're not as good quality as they are supposed to be. But who cares? It's not like any of them will be relying on the widgets in the field. This goes for every. single. thing. that Russia produces. Add into that the fact that many soldiers are conscripts who don't want to be there and their training isn't great. Add in the lack of maintenance. Add in all of those things and Russia sounds good (because the top guys go with what they have been told - and they will NEVER tell the truth because then Putin will get mad at them!) but isn't really that great. It doesn't matter what the truth is - they will believe what they are told, or pretend to believe it. The government will tell the people whatever it wants. In the old USSR there were civilian plane crashes all the time - remember, cheap production, poor training, poor maintenance. A plane would take off in one city, crash, but there would be no news report. Loved ones who showed up at the airport to pick up their people would be told "there's no plane scheduled, I'm not sure why your relative told you that! Maybe they just decided to leave you?" Nobody would ever admit the truth and who's to say what is true and what isn't? It's just the way it is. It takes a reallllllllly long time to get over this assumption of corruption. My husband has been living here now for nearly 40 years (he's from Poland). When we went to Los Angeles to get Polish passports for him and the kids, he wanted to bring a bottle of vodka for the passport official because otherwise they may process the applications. That was not the case, everything was processed, and we got the passports with no trouble - but this system was so prevalent in the Poland he grew up in (1980's) that it was still his knee-jerk reaction 35 years later. |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 11, 2022 0:12:45 GMT
No one also thought Russias military would be this big of a clusterxxxx. You'd be surprised that there were people who thought they would be EXACTLY this bad. ( watch this video from April 2021) The thing with Russia is that it is incredibly corrupt. Always has been, always will be. This goes all the way from the top to the bottom and then back up from the bottom to the top. Government budget $10 million for widgets for the soldiers. Of course that means $9 million after the top guy takes his cut. He's going to award the contract to his buddy, who will take his share. Then the actual factor managers each need their little bit. By the time you get to the guy on the factory floor, it may be $5 million. You make the widgets and every guy on the floor takes a few because he's not paid enough, and who's going to notice a couple of missing widgets anyway? So $10 million for 300,000 widgets eventually becomes $5 million for 150,000 widgets. So what happens when the top guy finds out there are only 150,000 widgets? Nothing, because he doesn't find out. The floor guy reports 100 widgets (there are really only 60). The manager knows there's only 60, but he can't tell his boss that, he'll get in trouble. His boss knows - but can't tell the regional guy, so he lies as well. Pretty much everyone up the chain lies to cover for what they don't want to admit - there aren't as many widgets and they're not as good quality as they are supposed to be. But who cares? It's not like any of them will be relying on the widgets in the field. This goes for every. single. thing. that Russia produces. Add into that the fact that many soldiers are conscripts who don't want to be there and their training isn't great. Add in the lack of maintenance. Add in all of those things and Russia sounds good (because the top guys go with what they have been told - and they will NEVER tell the truth because then Putin will get mad at them!) but isn't really that great. It doesn't matter what the truth is - they will believe what they are told, or pretend to believe it. The government will tell the people whatever it wants. In the old USSR there were civilian plane crashes all the time - remember, cheap production, poor training, poor maintenance. A plane would take off in one city, crash, but there would be no news report. Loved ones who showed up at the airport to pick up their people would be told "there's no plane scheduled, I'm not sure why your relative told you that! Maybe they just decided to leave you?" Nobody would ever admit the truth and who's to say what is true and what isn't? It's just the way it is. It takes a reallllllllly long time to get over this assumption of corruption. My husband has been living here now for nearly 40 years (he's from Poland). When we went to Los Angeles to get Polish passports for him and the kids, he wanted to bring a bottle of vodka for the passport official because otherwise they may process the applications. That was not the case, everything was processed, and we got the passports with no trouble - but this system was so prevalent in the Poland he grew up in (1980's) that it was still his knee-jerk reaction 35 years later. I’ve read a lot of this too. That a lot of the money that was supposed to be dedicated to modernize the Russian military was skimmed off the top by corrupt generals etc. And I’ll be honest the state of their military, actually makes me *more* concerned about provoking their nuclear capabilities. We all know they have it, but what if it’s as poorly built and maintained (through corruption) as the military seems to be? These are precision, world ending weapons. Launching one and having it potentially not go where you’d intended, because that is as equally a horrifying thought as them using them at all. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 11, 2022 0:17:42 GMT
No one also thought Russias military would be this big of a clusterxxxx. You'd be surprised that there were people who thought they would be EXACTLY this bad. ( watch this video from April 2021) The thing with Russia is that it is incredibly corrupt. Always has been, always will be. This goes all the way from the top to the bottom and then back up from the bottom to the top. Government budget $10 million for widgets for the soldiers. Of course that means $9 million after the top guy takes his cut. He's going to award the contract to his buddy, who will take his share. Then the actual factor managers each need their little bit. By the time you get to the guy on the factory floor, it may be $5 million. You make the widgets and every guy on the floor takes a few because he's not paid enough, and who's going to notice a couple of missing widgets anyway? So $10 million for 300,000 widgets eventually becomes $5 million for 150,000 widgets. So what happens when the top guy finds out there are only 150,000 widgets? Nothing, because he doesn't find out. The floor guy reports 100 widgets (there are really only 60). The manager knows there's only 60, but he can't tell his boss that, he'll get in trouble. His boss knows - but can't tell the regional guy, so he lies as well. Pretty much everyone up the chain lies to cover for what they don't want to admit - there aren't as many widgets and they're not as good quality as they are supposed to be. But who cares? It's not like any of them will be relying on the widgets in the field. This goes for every. single. thing. that Russia produces. Add into that the fact that many soldiers are conscripts who don't want to be there and their training isn't great. Add in the lack of maintenance. Add in all of those things and Russia sounds good (because the top guys go with what they have been told - and they will NEVER tell the truth because then Putin will get mad at them!) but isn't really that great. It doesn't matter what the truth is - they will believe what they are told, or pretend to believe it. The government will tell the people whatever it wants. In the old USSR there were civilian plane crashes all the time - remember, cheap production, poor training, poor maintenance. A plane would take off in one city, crash, but there would be no news report. Loved ones who showed up at the airport to pick up their people would be told "there's no plane scheduled, I'm not sure why your relative told you that! Maybe they just decided to leave you?" Nobody would ever admit the truth and who's to say what is true and what isn't? It's just the way it is. It takes a reallllllllly long time to get over this assumption of corruption. My husband has been living here now for nearly 40 years (he's from Poland). When we went to Los Angeles to get Polish passports for him and the kids, he wanted to bring a bottle of vodka for the passport official because otherwise they may process the applications. That was not the case, everything was processed, and we got the passports with no trouble - but this system was so prevalent in the Poland he grew up in (1980's) that it was still his knee-jerk reaction 35 years later. I was listening to a podcast today and they said that Russians had a certain type of tank (I don't remember the full name, or know if it was a newer, expensive tank or an older one) that were being outfitted with American made hobby store GPS systems. And they are not using secure communication, etc. I really wish they didn't have nuclear or biological/chemical weapons. I think it is more likely that they will use them if the other more conventional tactics of war aren't working for them. |
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
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Post by pyccku on Mar 11, 2022 0:48:52 GMT
And I’ll be honest the state of their military, actually makes me *more* concerned about provoking their nuclear capabilities. We all know they have it, but what if it’s as poorly built and maintained (through corruption) as the military seems to be? These are precision, world ending weapons. Launching one and having it potentially not go where you’d intended, because that is as equally a horrifying thought as them using them at all. It's also entirely likely that they won't launch at all, or will blow up on launch. |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 11, 2022 0:52:34 GMT
And I’ll be honest the state of their military, actually makes me *more* concerned about provoking their nuclear capabilities. We all know they have it, but what if it’s as poorly built and maintained (through corruption) as the military seems to be? These are precision, world ending weapons. Launching one and having it potentially not go where you’d intended, because that is as equally a horrifying thought as them using them at all. It's also entirely likely that they won't launch at all, or will blow up on launch. Yep, that too. 🥴 Edit- just had a chance to watch the video you posted, thanks for that. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 4:34:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 3:15:52 GMT
"U.S. Rep. Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina told supporters he thought Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was a "thug"—a comment that runs counter to the overwhelming share of Republicans with a favorable view of the leader fending off a military invasion from Russia. "Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug," Cawthorn said in a video obtained by WRAL. "Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."" www.wral.com/us-rep-madison-cawthorn-calls-zelensky-thug/20180199/"Not shocked that #PutinPropagandist Madison Cawthorn has labeled President Zelensky a “thug”. This coming from the guy who was setup with his wife by a random stranger he met in an underground Russian casino." - The Lincoln Project |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 4:34:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 3:21:13 GMT
Are you going to stand in line for a charge station if your electric car dies during your commute? How long does it take to charge your car? Are there going to be electric airplanes, helicopters or aircraft carriers, tanks or other military vehicles? Do you really think people are going to never travel from state to state or across country ever again? Are we just going to stop using boats, ocean liners/cruise ships? I’m sure there are circumstances where EV’s are practical. Plain common sense dictates that EV’s are NOT practical for everyone or everything or every situation. It sounds like some of your ideas are based on outdated information on the very first EV stats. The science behind them has come so far since then and will continue to progress. I would encourage you to read more about where EVs are now and how fast the technology is progressing. 🙂 (For example there already is an electric cruise ship that can hold 1300 passengers. ) Unfortunately she is not intellectually curious enough to actually get current and correct information about anything. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 11, 2022 3:50:01 GMT
Deutsche Bank says it would be unfair to to it's clients etc On Thursday, CNBC reported that Deutsche Bank, the longtime lender for former President Donald Trump, is defending its decision to not cease operating in Russia amid the invasion in Ukraine, calling such an action not "practical." "Speaking to CNBC, the German bank’s chief financial officer defended the decision, saying it hinged on its duty of care to clients that still operate in the country," reported Karen Gilchrist. "It comes as other major banks make moves to pull out of Russia. In Wall Street’s first departure, Goldman Sachs said Thursday that it was winding down its business in the country, while HSBC on Monday told staff to begin ceasing their dealings with Russian banks." www.rawstory.com/deutsche-bank-russia/ |
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 11, 2022 11:27:34 GMT
Could this turn into the latest “reason” for Putin to invade Ukraine?
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Post by mollycoddle on Mar 11, 2022 15:02:28 GMT
Ian Bremmer is a good follow on Twitter
ETA:
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 11, 2022 15:43:22 GMT
It appears someone is not happy.
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 11, 2022 16:12:38 GMT
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Post by gar on Mar 11, 2022 16:18:01 GMT
I have little doubt that chemical weapons will follow. If you want to know what he's going to do just see what he's accusing others of doing.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 11, 2022 16:28:02 GMT
I have little doubt that chemical weapons will follow. If you want to know what he's going to do just see what he's accusing others of doing. Sounds like someone else we know and his buddies. |
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Post by gar on Mar 11, 2022 16:35:18 GMT
I have little doubt that chemical weapons will follow. If you want to know what he's going to do just see what he's accusing others of doing. Sounds like someone else we know and his buddies. The same occurred to me but I resisted going there  |
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 11, 2022 17:02:32 GMT
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 11, 2022 17:04:23 GMT
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