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Post by aj2hall on Apr 11, 2022 23:22:30 GMT
This guy seems to be suggesting that Democrats should be kinder and more accepting of conservatives/ Republicans intolerance of LGBTQ. Why should someone who is intolerant be treated with respect and kindness? I’m not suggesting that being aggressive, shouting at them etc is the answer, that’s clearly not an effective way to change anyone’s mind. But if someone is being intolerant and disrespectful, why should they be treated with respect or given a pass, as he says, silence is golden? wapo.st/3jpthU5 (Gift article - no paywall) I think he’s wrong about opinions on transgender athletes. Eta - Sadly, he’s not, according to a poll from last year. www.npr.org/2021/05/26/1000589842/americans-strongly-support-trans-rights-in-some-casesAnd why would anyone be offended if language is changed from boys and girls to children? I also think he’s misguided in his understanding of the Florida don’t say gay bill and downplaying the potential harm. And I don’t think 5-8 years olds should be expected to answer complex questions like why does he have 2 dads? This is exactly why we have teachers, to guide those conversations.
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2022 0:06:01 GMT
I’ll tolerate him as soon as he sees to it that I can’t be sued or lose my job for answering a question about a kindergartener’s family picture with a neutral, “Yes, some families have a mom and a dad and some have two moms or two dads.”
You can believe whatever you like, but you cross the line when you insist that I pretend what you don’t like doesn’t exist or else lose my job.
I also dislike the fact that so many believe that religious foundations give legitimacy to noxious beliefs. Take your religion out of it. Does your belief preference respect others’ constitutional rights? Does it respect the guiding principles of allowing everyone the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of THEIR happiness? If not, then it doesn’t matter what your religion says and you need to leave that out of the conversation.
The special protection this country has given to religious beliefs and organizations has contributed greatly to our downfall. Worship how you want, but it’s time to stop expecting the state to legitimize and even promote those beliefs for you.
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,792
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Apr 12, 2022 0:44:53 GMT
I’ll tolerate him as soon as he sees to it that I can’t be sued or lose my job for answering a question about a kindergartener’s family picture with a neutral, “Yes, some families have a mom and a dad and some have two moms or two dads.” You can believe whatever you like, but you cross the line when you insist that I pretend what you don’t like doesn’t exist or else lose my job. I also dislike the fact that so many believe that religious foundations give legitimacy to noxious beliefs. Take your religion out of it. Does your belief preference respect others’ constitutional rights? Does it respect the guiding principles of allowing everyone the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of THEIR happiness? If not, then it doesn’t matter what your religion says and you need to leave that out of the conversation. The special protection this country has given to religious beliefs and organizations has contributed greatly to our downfall. Worship how you want, but it’s time to stop expecting the state to legitimize and even promote those beliefs for you. THIS x 1,000! Spot on!
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Apr 12, 2022 1:07:42 GMT
He wants teachers to direct a student’s question about why Susie has two dads to Susie. Because Suzie’s dads have probably already coached her and she should be ready. But of course.
Good grief. I spent a ton of time coaching various Suzies about what to say when a classmate asked why she wore hearing aids. We practiced; we role played. Guess what? Susie often forgot and stammered when asked one-on-one, especially by the wrong kid or in the wrong tone. If a teacher redirected the question to Susie in a group setting and 50 seven-year-old eyes turned to her, there was a good chance she would want to fall in a giant hole. And those are the kids who then take their hearing aids off and stuff them in their hoodie pocket.
Imagine feeling like you want to stuff your parents in your hoodie pocket.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 12, 2022 1:28:01 GMT
Based on comments that I read online, it seems that the only reason people can come up with for why a teacher would need to talk about same sex couples is because they want to teach them about sex and being gay. They can't imagine that the teacher might have a picture of their spouse, or another student might have two same-sex parents, or a variety of other scenarios. People really are short-sighted.
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Loydene
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,639
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Jul 8, 2014 16:31:47 GMT
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Post by Loydene on Apr 12, 2022 1:39:25 GMT
White Christian Nationalism -- that is why there is support for the Hungarian dictator and Putin -- their actions which are so OBVIOUSLY anti-Democratic do not phase all those reptilian Republicans who WANT White Christian Nationalism.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 12, 2022 1:51:06 GMT
I can confirm that I have heard rumblings about Disney’s gender neutral language and about trans athletes. Most people will probably not use gender neutral language-at least for awhile. I think that Rs big topics heading into November will be inflation and immigration. But yeah, they are going to milk the Disney dust-up too.
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Post by epeanymous on Apr 12, 2022 1:55:15 GMT
Did he read what he wrote himself? In what possible universe is it tenable for a teacher to refer to Johnny’s “mom and dad” but if Susie has two dads, to tell Johnny “why don’t you ask Susie if you have questions about her parents”? How is that administrable? In what world can that teacher assign books with heterosexual couples and parents, but not gay couples or parents, and that’s just us being tolerant of the intolerant? What about the kids?
These are not abstract questions for me like I think they seem to be for him. In fourteen years of having kids in elementary school (!!), I don’t know that I have ever had a kid in a classroom that didn’t have at least one same-sex set of parents. And I have gotten two kids through some or all of high school, knowing their friends since early elementary; a number of them have been gay or trans. Sorry that it sounds like this dude can’t “tolerate” literal children.
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2022 2:08:54 GMT
These people who feel like their kid can’t hear from a teacher that it’s ok for same-sex parents to exist will all troop into church this weekend to hear about and look at pictures of a man who was brutally tortured and executed by the Romans.
Make it make sense.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 12, 2022 2:26:38 GMT
Starting at 2:10 is where I get my signature from
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 12, 2022 2:27:18 GMT
Lionel Tribbey : I believe, as long as Justice Dreifort is intolerant toward gays, lesbians, blacks, unions, women, poor people, and the first, fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments, I will remain intolerant toward him.
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Post by lucyg on Apr 12, 2022 3:23:14 GMT
Lionel Tribbey : I believe, as long as Justice Dreifort is intolerant toward gays, lesbians, blacks, unions, women, poor people, and the first, fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments, I will remain intolerant toward him. That was fun. I never watched West Wing. The only scene I’d ever watched prior to this one was the Butterball Turkey hotline scene. I guess I need to break down and watch the whole damn thing, don’t I?
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 12, 2022 4:27:08 GMT
Lionel Tribbey : I believe, as long as Justice Dreifort is intolerant toward gays, lesbians, blacks, unions, women, poor people, and the first, fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments, I will remain intolerant toward him. That was fun. I never watched West Wing. The only scene I’d ever watched prior to this one was the Butterball Turkey hotline scene. I guess I need to break down and watch the whole damn thing, don’t I?YES!!! I have a West Wing reference for so many things. It is a great show and still pretty relevant.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Apr 12, 2022 9:24:00 GMT
Lionel Tribbey : I believe, as long as Justice Dreifort is intolerant toward gays, lesbians, blacks, unions, women, poor people, and the first, fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments, I will remain intolerant toward him. That was fun. I never watched West Wing. The only scene I’d ever watched prior to this one was the Butterball Turkey hotline scene. I guess I need to break down and watch the whole damn thing, don’t I? Yes. Yes you do.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 12, 2022 9:46:18 GMT
This is along the same lines, and it is powerful. It contains a little something for everyone. And it’s true.
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Post by monklady123 on Apr 12, 2022 11:39:44 GMT
Lionel Tribbey : I believe, as long as Justice Dreifort is intolerant toward gays, lesbians, blacks, unions, women, poor people, and the first, fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments, I will remain intolerant toward him. That was fun. I never watched West Wing. The only scene I’d ever watched prior to this one was the Butterball Turkey hotline scene. I guess I need to break down and watch the whole damn thing, don’t I? Yes, you really do!
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,791
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Apr 12, 2022 11:45:26 GMT
Lionel Tribbey : I believe, as long as Justice Dreifort is intolerant toward gays, lesbians, blacks, unions, women, poor people, and the first, fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments, I will remain intolerant toward him. That was fun. I never watched West Wing. The only scene I’d ever watched prior to this one was the Butterball Turkey hotline scene. I guess I need to break down and watch the whole damn thing, don’t I? I think you would absolutely love it. Aaron Sorkin at his finest.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,840
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Apr 12, 2022 13:32:28 GMT
mollycoddle When 1 finger is pointed out to someone or something, there are 3 fingers that are pointing back towards the finger-pointer. Usually the thumb is keeping these 3 fingers together. Just a thought.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Apr 12, 2022 13:42:35 GMT
I continue to be amazed at how I've had conservative relatives and acquaintances post the most awful, violent, derogatory, hateful memes, diatribes, rants on social media while being many of the same people who have shady habits themselves... who at the same time will howl like a hurt dog about the intolerant left. You know, like the time I posted on January 6 that if I had family or friends thought storming the Capital and beating the tar out of police was okay, that we were done. That was the one time I drew a line in the proverbial sand with permanent marker. This after years of me saying little and what I did say was always mere facts with the receipts to back them up. I never commented in an inflammatory way, but they always took it as a challenge and an opportunity to jump down my throat. And cousins ask me why I never come to family reunion. And lucyg, you've never watched West Wing? Get thee to the boob tube!
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2022 14:07:13 GMT
I continue to be amazed at how I've had conservative relatives and acquaintances post the most awful, violent, derogatory, hateful memes, diatribes, rants on social media while being many of the same people who have shady habits themselves... who at the same time will howl like a hurt dog about the intolerant left. You know, like the time I posted on January 6 that if I had family or friends thought storming the Capital and beating the tar out of police was okay, that we were done. That was the one time I drew a line in the proverbial sand with permanent marker. This after years of me saying little and what I did say was always mere facts with the receipts to back them up. I never commented in an inflammatory way, but they always took it as a challenge and an opportunity to jump down my throat. And cousins ask me why I never come to family reunion. Yes, I've been accused of "putting politics before family." And when I explain that it's not just politics to me, and that I'm not comfortable having friendly chats with people who think that women, minorities, LGBTQ are second-class citizens, or who support the violent overthrow of our government, I'm told that I'm being "too sensitive" and "overly emotional." Same thing they said when grandpa was found to be sexually abusing some of my cousins, BTW. Nope, no family reunions for me.
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Post by cakediva on Apr 12, 2022 15:01:02 GMT
That was fun. I never watched West Wing. The only scene I’d ever watched prior to this one was the Butterball Turkey hotline scene. I guess I need to break down and watch the whole damn thing, don’t I?YES!!! I have a West Wing reference for so many things. It is a great show and still pretty relevant. If I could find a place to stream it I would totally watch the whole thing!
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2022 19:45:11 GMT
YES!!! I have a West Wing reference for so many things. It is a great show and still pretty relevant. If I could find a place to stream it I would totally watch the whole thing! It appears to be streaming on HBO Max, if you have that or want to get it.
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Post by cakediva on Apr 12, 2022 21:04:29 GMT
If I could find a place to stream it I would totally watch the whole thing! It appears to be streaming on HBO Max, if you have that or want to get it. Hmm - not something I have in my cable package and even though I subscribe to Crave, it isn't there either. Bummer!
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 12, 2022 21:35:52 GMT
Well this is creepy. I just read an article about why LDS white educated members are leaving the church. The same reasons were stated.
The non-religious, atheists, and agnostics all have a new "religion" of what seems to be progressive politics. Of course anyone who is no longer in the religion, have the same "beliefs" according to the article.
"Disaffected members critiquing our faith from within the framework of their new faith can be asked to show their cards, explain their own beliefs, and make an affirmative case for them if they want us to agree. We should stop accepting terms of debate where church members are required to justify their beliefs from within the framework of the contemporary progressive worldview, while those of the other faith can perpetually disclaim any burden of proof for theirs."
"This change in approach is hard. We have been playing defensively not because we don’t want to win but because the deck is stacked against us. But it’s possible: people can be—and have been—woken up to the fact of their unintended conversion. They must be if there is to be any reasonable hope that they will return."
Who the hell would want to return to that?
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Post by hop2 on Apr 12, 2022 22:19:44 GMT
Lionel Tribbey : I believe, as long as Justice Dreifort is intolerant toward gays, lesbians, blacks, unions, women, poor people, and the first, fourth, fifth, and ninth amendments, I will remain intolerant toward him. That was fun. I never watched West Wing. The only scene I’d ever watched prior to this one was the Butterball Turkey hotline scene. I guess I need to break down and watch the whole damn thing, don’t I? I don’t know, previously I’d have said, YES watch it! It’s great! Originally it was funny and poignant. But now it’s just a reminder of all we have lost and how far we have regressed.
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Apr 12, 2022 22:45:38 GMT
It’s typical Republican BS. They always do WTF they want but Democrats are supposed to take the high road. F them and their high horse. If they worked on acting like compassionate human beings they’d have less time to worry about the Democrats and their intolerance because that would be a full time job.
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2022 23:08:58 GMT
Well this is creepy. I just read an article about why LDS white educated members are leaving the church. The same reasons were stated. The non-religious, atheists, and agnostics all have a new "religion" of what seems to be progressive politics. Of course anyone who is no longer in the religion, have the same "beliefs" according to the article. "Disaffected members critiquing our faith from within the framework of their new faith can be asked to show their cards, explain their own beliefs, and make an affirmative case for them if they want us to agree. We should stop accepting terms of debate where church members are required to justify their beliefs from within the framework of the contemporary progressive worldview, while those of the other faith can perpetually disclaim any burden of proof for theirs." "This change in approach is hard. We have been playing defensively not because we don’t want to win but because the deck is stacked against us. But it’s possible: people can be—and have been—woken up to the fact of their unintended conversion. They must be if there is to be any reasonable hope that they will return." Who the hell would want to return to that? Yeah, their assertion that a religious text justifies or “makes a case for” inflicting their beliefs on others is hard to swallow. Yes, I was converted away from conservative Christianity to something else. From a belief system based on a text written and compiled solely by men thousands of years ago, to a belief system based on rational thought and care for the modern humans around me. The thing is that once you realize that one belief system is rational and supportable, and the other relies on superstition and mythology, you’re not going to be converted back. We have an LDS couple among our friends who have slowly moved leftward over the years we’ve known them. They were center-right when we met them. I would describe him, especially, as left-center if not outright progressive now. He’s lost friends and family members because he doesn’t support Trump or anyone in the Texas GOP. By all outward signs, they are still faithful, believing LDS. It will be interesting to see if they maintain that belief system long term, or if their kids do.
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2022 23:12:23 GMT
He wants teachers to direct a student’s question about why Susie has two dads to Susie. Because Suzie’s dads have probably already coached her and she should be ready. But of course. Good grief. I spent a ton of time coaching various Suzies about what to say when a classmate asked why she wore hearing aids. We practiced; we role played. Guess what? Susie often forgot and stammered when asked one-on-one, especially by the wrong kid or in the wrong tone. If a teacher redirected the question to Susie in a group setting and 50 seven-year-old eyes turned to her, there was a good chance she would want to fall in a giant hole. And those are the kids who then take their hearing aids off and stuff them in their hoodie pocket. Imagine feeling like you want to stuff your parents in your hoodie pocket. The very thought of putting a young child on the spot like that makes me want to retch. These people are contemptible. They know dang well that in doing that, the in message is that there’s something wrong with Susie and her family - something too shameful for the teacher to discuss. And of course that’s exactly the message they want to send.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 13, 2022 0:17:01 GMT
YES!!! I have a West Wing reference for so many things. It is a great show and still pretty relevant. If I could find a place to stream it I would totally watch the whole thing! HBO max. $15 for the month. It would be tough to do in 1, but you could totally watch the whole thing in 2.
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Post by cakediva on Apr 13, 2022 2:19:11 GMT
If I could find a place to stream it I would totally watch the whole thing! HBO max. $15 for the month. It would be tough to do in 1, but you could totally watch the whole thing in 2. We can’t get HBO Max in Canada 😭
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