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Post by Layce on May 5, 2022 21:29:25 GMT
lol, I've had a pair of VS paisley print satiny oversize man-style pjs for like, years, that are clearly my favorites even now, even though almost threadbare in places, that I can't seem to find anywhere anymore to replace I kid you not they go everywhere with me. THAT BEING SAID, the Ramsey case is not really about suspicions of who was wearing whatever, it's about the evidence. The Ramseys never stood trial nor were they ever "exonerated by law enforcement." The FBI was not fooled by the staged crime scene. And of all the evidence, the ransom note stands out strongest. Hey. Would you believe the Grand Jury saw all the evidence?! They did! And they voted to indict. A decision based on evidence, not hearsay. The ransom note and the totality of the circumstances is actually what tips the scale to culpable. The ransom note. It is the smoking gun. The DA refused to proceed probably due to what some of you mentioned above, police bungling. All those mistakes = reasonable doubt and he just chickened out. My opinion, this was an accidental homicide followed by some crime scene staging to protect a family member.
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Post by busy on May 5, 2022 21:33:29 GMT
lol, I've had a pair of VS paisley print satiny oversize man-style pjs for like, years, that are clearly my favorites even now, even though almost threadbare in places, that I can't seem to find anywhere anymore to replace I kid you not they go everywhere with me. THAT BEING SAID, the Ramsey case is not really about suspicions of who was wearing whatever, it's about the evidence. The Ramseys never stood trial nor were they ever "exonerated by law enforcement." The FBI was not fooled by the staged crime scene. And of all the evidence, the ransom note stands out strongest. Hey. Would you believe the Grand Jury saw all the evidence?! They did! And they voted to indict. A decision based on evidence, not hearsay. The ransom note and the totality of the circumstances is actually what tips the scale to culpable. The ransom note. It is the smoking gun. The DA refused to proceed probably due to what some of you mentioned above, police bungling. All those mistakes = reasonable doubt and he just chickened out. My opinion, this was an accidental homicide followed by some crime scene staging to protect a family member. There was the DNA of an unknown male on her body. Police said the family members were ruled out. But go on with maligning a family who’s been through unspeakable tragedy because you think you know best.
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Post by refugeepea on May 5, 2022 21:46:44 GMT
I don't think it matters what clothes were worn.
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Post by hop2 on May 5, 2022 22:05:47 GMT
There are so many, many odd details about this case, I can’t say that any one of them really stands out to me. The sad fact is, the police bungled this case so badly from the beginning, I don’t think we’ll ever know who killed that poor child. This. These 2 sentences are where I’ve been at for years. There are more odd details to this case than you can count. One odd detail here doesn’t stand out to me more than any other odd detail. There’s odd details about her whole family & other people. Truly a strange case. I do hope there’s Justice but I’m not waiting for it.
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peaname
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,390
Aug 16, 2014 23:15:53 GMT
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Post by peaname on May 5, 2022 22:22:18 GMT
I think Patsy was part of a coverup in some way I don’t think she murdered her daughter. I’m not clear on John’s involvement but his behavior was strange. I don’t think there was enough evidence of anything and too many red herrings. I wonder if Burke will have any comment after John dies.
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,168
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on May 6, 2022 0:48:04 GMT
Isn’t it common to have a favorite of everything you have? Fave pair of shoes, fave pants, fave jammies. And of course grown women have jammies. No, I don’t think it’s common at all. And, as a grown-ass woman I do own pajamas, but I don’t refer to them as “jammies.”
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Post by iamkristinl16 on May 6, 2022 0:52:43 GMT
John wants the unknown male DNA tested by an outside lab. That is why the case is in the news right now.
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Post by myshelly on May 6, 2022 1:17:46 GMT
Isn’t it common to have a favorite of everything you have? Fave pair of shoes, fave pants, fave jammies. And of course grown women have jammies. No, I don’t think it’s common at all. And, as a grown-ass woman I do own pajamas, but I don’t refer to them as “jammies.” You don’t think it’s common to have favorite things? Like, you literally don’t have a favorite tshirt or favorite dress or favorite coffee mug?
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Post by pjaye on May 6, 2022 1:27:52 GMT
Some people clearly pay too much attention to crime FICTION and it's very different to what happens in actual real crimes.
Children do not accidentally kill other children and then their parents stage elaborate cover-ups. That's in TV shows and novels. That's not in real life. Real accidents happen to kids all the time, and what parents do is call for help, call the ambulance, drive to the hospital etc. They don't strangle their little girls, tie them up, tape their mouths and give them vaginal abrasions to cover up accidents.
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Post by putabuttononit on May 6, 2022 1:36:41 GMT
Some people clearly pay too much attention to crime FICTION and it's very different to what happens in actual real crimes. Children do not accidentally kill other children and then their parents stage elaborate cover-ups. That's in TV shows and novels. That's not in real life. Real accidents happen to kids all the time, and what parents do is call for help, call the ambulance, drive to the hospital etc. They don't strangle their little girls, tie them up, tape their mouths and give them vaginal abrasions to cover up accidents. Truth is often stranger than fiction. It’s true that the most obvious thing is the answer sometimes, but there is no one obvious thing in this case.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 6, 2022 2:01:13 GMT
Some people clearly pay too much attention to crime FICTION and it's very different to what happens in actual real crimes. Children do not accidentally kill other children and then their parents stage elaborate cover-ups. That's in TV shows and novels. That's not in real life. Real accidents happen to kids all the time, and what parents do is call for help, call the ambulance, drive to the hospital etc. They don't strangle their little girls, tie them up, tape their mouths and give them vaginal abrasions to cover up accidents. You must not watch much true crime shows. Yes, it does happen. Maybe it's not common, but it does happen.
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Post by pjaye on May 6, 2022 2:02:19 GMT
Truth is often stranger than fiction. No it actually isn't. Just because it's a popular saying doesn't make it true. I could cite countless stories in fiction and there is no truth you could claim it would be more strange than. People behave in certain predictable ways that's why FBI profilers is a 'thing' and they are successful. You are buying into the stereotype of fictional crimes. There are lots of obvious things in this case - a man tried to abduct a little girl, but his plan failed and he ended up killing her & leaving her there. It was Christmas and there were inexperienced police officers on, and they didn't search or secure the home as they should have. They did find DNA - but the man isn't in the database. Also obvious- loving parents with several other children and zero previous history of any sort of abuse or violence do not randomly kill their daughter one night and stage an elaborate & successful cover up. Also obvious, anything you could think up was already well and truly looked at by the myriad of professionals involved in this case and dismissed as not relevant. Random women on the internet do not know more than the FBI or police with a career in murder investigations.
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Post by pjaye on May 6, 2022 2:03:04 GMT
Yes, it does happen. Maybe it's not common, but it does happen. Name a real crime that matches this.
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,168
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on May 6, 2022 2:45:32 GMT
No, I don’t think it’s common at all. And, as a grown-ass woman I do own pajamas, but I don’t refer to them as “jammies.” You don’t think it’s common to have favorite things? Like, you literally don’t have a favorite tshirt or favorite dress or favorite coffee mug? In case it wasn’t clear enough the first time I said it… No, I don’t think it’s common at all. I don’t have a favorite of any of those things. It seems weird to me that anyone over the age of six would.
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Post by cakediva on May 6, 2022 2:52:17 GMT
Isn’t it common to have a favorite of everything you have? Fave pair of shoes, fave pants, fave jammies. And of course grown women have jammies. No, I don’t think it’s common at all. And, as a grown-ass woman I do own pajamas, but I don’t refer to them as “jammies.” Well, I’m a grown ass woman and I do have “jammies” - I call them that all the time.
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Gennifer
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,168
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on May 6, 2022 3:01:27 GMT
Well, I’m a grown ass woman and I do have “jammies” - I call them that all the time. Ah, but do you have a favorite pair? 😜
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Post by cakediva on May 6, 2022 3:02:32 GMT
You don’t think it’s common to have favorite things? Like, you literally don’t have a favorite tshirt or favorite dress or favorite coffee mug? In case it wasn’t clear enough the first time I said it… No, I don’t think it’s common at all. I don’t have a favorite of any of those things. It seems weird to me that anyone over the age of six would. And now I’ll also say I do have a favourite coffee mug - it bugs me when DH uses it on the weekend. I have a favourite summer dress I like to wear. I have a favourite pair of summer jammies and a new favourite pair of winter jammies from this past Christmas. I prefer to sleep in them over any others I own. In chatting with many of my friends they will often mention in passing “my favourite this or that” I guess I don’t understand the “of course I don’t have favourite things I’m not a child” stance….
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Post by busy on May 6, 2022 3:14:15 GMT
Just really, it boggles the mind that armchair detectives would believe that the Ramseys are such criminal masterminds that they could kill their daughter and so effectively stage a crime scene that 25 years later there's still no viable evidence against them. Quite the talent.
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Post by mimi3566 on May 6, 2022 9:58:09 GMT
You don’t think it’s common to have favorite things? Like, you literally don’t have a favorite tshirt or favorite dress or favorite coffee mug? In case it wasn’t clear enough the first time I said it… No, I don’t think it’s common at all. I don’t have a favorite of any of those things. It seems weird to me that anyone over the age of six would. It seems weird to me that you don't.....regardless of age.
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Post by mimi3566 on May 6, 2022 9:58:54 GMT
No, I don’t think it’s common at all. And, as a grown-ass woman I do own pajamas, but I don’t refer to them as “jammies.” Well, I’m a grown ass woman and I do have “jammies” - I call them that all the time. Me too.....I love my jammies!
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on May 6, 2022 10:57:35 GMT
We call them jammas. I love that this thread switches back and forth between topics so effortlessly!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:29:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2022 11:10:15 GMT
Just really, it boggles the mind that armchair detectives would believe that the Ramseys are such criminal masterminds that they could kill their daughter and so effectively stage a crime scene that 25 years later there's still no viable evidence against them. Quite the talent. And the Dad certainly wouldn't be still insisting that whatever DNA evidence there is, be re-examined by an independent lab, who are now far more advanced in DNA research than they were 25/26 ? years ago. Why are the PD reluctant to agree to this?
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 6, 2022 12:37:36 GMT
Google tells me the ”party outfit” was a turtleneck and blazer and pants. They were flying to celebrate Christmas at their second home with family, which doesn’t mean they were going straight from the plane to a party….or even that there was a party planned…or that she wouldn’t have changed out of traveling clothes.
I think there are reasons to suspect the family but this detail that the OP thinks is damning is the reason I have a long-held fear of being judged by a jury of my peers: people make assumptions based on the way THEY live and then apply it to all others. We all don’t feel the same way about pajamas; we all don’t have the same rules about laundering clothes; those of us wearing the same clothes the next day can’t be assumed to have never removed them…or to be weird or disgusting.
It’s kinda’ like saying a killer never would have left fingerprints on the toilet handle because of course he would have been a foot flusher…
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Post by dewryce on May 6, 2022 13:48:06 GMT
I foot flushed for the first time recently. Almost fell right on my ass. Should have tried learning at a younger age. Think I’ll stick with just washing my hands really well after I use the restroom.
Parents will and have done horrible, unimaginably disgusting things to their children. To suggest a situation such as this couldn’t occur seems a bit naive. That said, my gut thinks they were involved in a cover-up, not the initial crime. Of course I wouldn’t vote to convict based on that, just my personal opinion based on what I’ve read about the case.
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Post by busy on May 6, 2022 14:11:17 GMT
Parents will and have done horrible, unimaginably disgusting things to their children. To suggest a situation such as this couldn’t occur seems a bit naive No one is saying otherwise. It's not that it's impossible to believe they could have killed their daughter, in theory. Of course parents are capable of horrific acts. But a vanishingly small number of them get away with their crimes for 25 plus years when the body is found, the crime scene known, and tremendous investigative resources have been poured into the case for over two decades.
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iluvpink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,370
Location: Michigan
Jul 13, 2014 12:40:31 GMT
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Post by iluvpink on May 6, 2022 14:16:14 GMT
My gut feeling is someone in the house, or someone they know very well killed her and they covered it up. From the little I've read I don't feel it was Patsy who killed her. I really don't. I do think she helped cover it up.
But I also don't totally discount an intruder. What I don't get though is WHY an intruder would take the time to write a ransom note, hide her body there etc. Unless they WANTED to get caught (not knowing the crime scene would be so bungled). If they wanted to get caught, one would think they would have outed themselves by now. Because there are people out there that partially do things because they like the attention.
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milocat
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,570
Location: 55 degrees north in Alberta, Canada
Mar 18, 2015 4:10:31 GMT
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Post by milocat on May 6, 2022 14:26:32 GMT
I have favourite pajamas, just a pajama tshirt. Not head to toe footie jammies but they are my sleeping clothes so they are called pajamas. I'm drinking tea from one of my 2 favourite most mugs this morning. I'm grossed out by the sleeping in clothes comment 🤢
Putting on a Christmas outfit from the night before first thing in the morning is odd. Putting on some lounge clothes from last night isn't odd.
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Post by gracieplusthree on May 6, 2022 15:35:10 GMT
I’m kind of caught on the fact that people have “favorite” pajamas. 🤷🏼♀️ Do you not? I have favorite everything, pants,socks, tshirts, blanket, spoon, on and on haha
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on May 6, 2022 16:30:10 GMT
Yes, it does happen. Maybe it's not common, but it does happen. Name a real crime that matches this. I'm not going to google for you. But an example, I was watching older episodes of Snapped not long ago and the story was about a mother/daughter who were literally killing their family off one by one (started with Dad, then the 20's autistic brother and then they were working on the younger sister when they got caught), making it look like accidents. Mother covering for daughter, daughter covering for mother. Is this an EXACT match? Of course it's not. But that was never my point. My point is, weird shit happens all the time that most people can't even conceive of doing. Just because it doesn't infiltrate your circle of knowledge doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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Post by putabuttononit on May 6, 2022 19:36:05 GMT
I definitely have favorite jammies and order a few sets of them so one is always clean lol. I also have favorite mugs, shoes, fork, cereal bowl, blanket etc. 😜
I’d never convict based on one tiny detail.
(Don’t get me started on the RANSOM NOTE lol 😂)
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