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Post by myboysnme on May 15, 2022 11:02:03 GMT
I love going to crops. I go as often as I can as that is where I do my scrapping. I generally go with my friend who tunes out everyone else as much as she can.
I cannot. The discussions the women have distress me. They get into thinly veiled racist discussions, speak against disabled and children, advocate abusive practices etc. They are generally women who have had some education, are retired or working part time, and often have very old school thought processes.
At my crop Friday I spoke out about the covertly racist discussion and then at length about the child maltreatment discussion. Of course I was out on a limb and felt very vulnerable.
Look I just want to papercraft and enjoy it. I want to truly enjoy my time doing nothing but working on my stuff in an environment of good lighting and table space, which I do not have at home. It is time set aside for the hobby I love.
My son told me to just get my friend and maybe a few others and do our own crop. I used to run crops and now I just don't have the energy.
I don't understand the need of women to continually bring up topics that are political or just plain ignorant opinions about others.
I think I am probably becoming unwelcome because I do speak up. I don't like being unwelcome of course.
The crop hostesses either participate in the discussions or they condone them so I can't ask them to moderate discussion.
I really love my crops but not the people. Does that make sense? I don't know what to do anymore.
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vexedangel
Full Member
Posts: 401
Nov 4, 2018 20:14:04 GMT
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Post by vexedangel on May 15, 2022 11:06:36 GMT
Oh my gosh, that’s awful. I voted stop going. As much as it sucks, I think it’s time to find an alternative. Do you have a library nearby? There may be private rooms with good tables and lighting you can reserve with your friend.
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Post by mikklynn on May 15, 2022 11:08:16 GMT
I'd stop attending crops with that group of women.
I was only at one crop like that. It was just one older woman that I really believe had dementia or mental illness.
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Post by groovy on May 15, 2022 11:31:47 GMT
I agree with your son. Get your own group of friends together and crop.
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kitbop
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by kitbop on May 15, 2022 11:33:15 GMT
It would ruin my fun. You deserve applause for joining the conversation - they need to hear what you offered. However, they are unlikely to change their tune if they are the majority there. If you are a) ignoring but annoyed by their backwards views b) trying to correct their backwards views, you will not be able to relax and enjoy!
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 15, 2022 11:46:39 GMT
I really, really applaud you for speaking up. It's not OK to talk like that and people should have the good sense to know in this day and age that even if they believe these ugly things, society has changed and it's taboo to talk about them.
I speak up wherever I can. I feel it is my obligation. My daughter was transgender and had autism. My other daughter is engaged to a black man and I most likely will have mixed race grandkids. Every time I hear slams against these groups of vulnerable people I speak out. Every single time. I think of my children and my potential grandchildren hearing such ugliness and it infuriates me.
I understand that the crops are your free scrappy time. But can you honestly say you enjoy yourself when you're with these people?
I wish I was close to you because I would be proud to scrapbook with you. Thank you for sticking up for the vulnerable.
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Post by Citygirl on May 15, 2022 11:51:27 GMT
“I really love my crops but not the people.”
These are not your people. Find new people.
If it’s causing distress and stealing your joy then it’s time to move on or invest in some good noise canceling headphones.
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Post by Skellinton on May 15, 2022 12:46:58 GMT
Those kind of discussions cross the line, so after giving them an earful of why their conversations were completely offensive I would never go back.
There are some conversations I can find annoying and tune out, but racism and offensive comments about a person's differing abilities? No way. I would not be able to enjoy my time there at all.
I would love to attend in person crops, but not with people like that.
Thank you for speaking up, I hope you can find another group to join.
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Post by mamagidget on May 15, 2022 13:07:22 GMT
If you are an earbuds person and still want to attend, put earbuds in with music or a show and tune them out.
If that isn't an option, and you are not able to enjoy (which that is what it sounds like to me from your description), sounds like it's time to find an alternative.
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laurap
Shy Member
Posts: 35
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Post by laurap on May 15, 2022 13:18:04 GMT
If you are an earbuds person and still want to attend, put earbuds in with music or a show and tune them out. If that isn't an option, and you are not able to enjoy (which that is what it sounds like to me from your description), sounds like it's time to find an alternative. This is my opinion also. I would probably still attend, but be on the lookout for alternative crops to attend. |
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Post by boymom5 on May 15, 2022 13:33:17 GMT
I’m surprised by the type of conversation going on. I haven’t been to that many crops recently but when I have the conversation isn’t political or such. I am also one who tend to have earbuds in and music or tv, so I’d be one who wouldn’t have picked up on the uncomfortable conversation. Since this seems like a more local crop you attend more often, it doesn’t sound like a good fit.
Could you put the money it costs for the crop and put it towards nice lighting and a portable table to make a space in a hotel room you and friends could go to periodically? I don’t have friends IRL who scrap but this is probably what I’d do.
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Post by mamagidget on May 15, 2022 13:37:12 GMT
I found a few scrapbooking groups through Meetup.com, one was not my cup of tea, but the other group was fantastic. There is a third group but I haven't attended that one yet. Maybe there are some more groups in your area? 🤞
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Post by hop2 on May 15, 2022 13:43:30 GMT
“I really love my crops but not the people.” These are not your people. Find new people. If it’s causing distress and stealing your joy then it’s time to move on or invest in some good noise canceling headphones. time to move on |
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Post by scrappyem on May 15, 2022 14:28:08 GMT
I feel this so much. I attended a couple of classes at my local LSS back in Texas and found the same thing. Political discussions, how terrible immigrants are, etc. I really wish the owner of the store (who was in there) would have put a stop to the discussions. She did not. It was clear she agreed. I stopped going. I knew I didn't belong but it made me sad. Good for you for speaking up. I'm sorry that happened.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,012
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Post by pinklady on May 15, 2022 14:32:47 GMT
If you are an earbuds person and still want to attend, put earbuds in with music or a show and tune them out. If that isn't an option, and you are not able to enjoy (which that is what it sounds like to me from your description), sounds like it's time to find an alternative. This is my opinion also. I would probably still attend, but be on the lookout for alternative crops to attend. Why on earth would you willing surround yourself with these kinds of people? I will NEVER understand this. |
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Elsabelle
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Elsabelle on May 15, 2022 14:53:31 GMT
I would stop attending because if I heard those topics and continued to attend it would feel like I’m tolerating those viewpoints. I just couldn’t.
I would look into your local library or community centers for some scrap space. I’d also put the word out that you’re looking for a new place for a crop. Maybe someone in your community knows of a place.
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Ryann
Pearl Clutcher
Love is Inclusive
Posts: 2,629
Location: PNW
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Post by Ryann on May 15, 2022 14:55:57 GMT
I would be unwilling to support this small business anymore given their history of condoning the subjects you’ve listed. That would be a hard pass for me.
A friend and I no longer attend weekend retreats in our area due to similar reasons. Sometimes doing the right thing is hard.
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Post by lanena on May 15, 2022 15:08:56 GMT
If it were me, I would stop attending but would also send an email to the organizer explaining why.
I'm so sorry this has happened. I haven't been to a crop in years, but all of my experiences were positive. I'm fortunate to have lots of space to crop at home, but at one time I really needed to get away to get something done. I hope you are able to find another group.
With everything that is happening right now, there is no room for hatred. Scrapbooking should be an escape from all of the ugliness out there.
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jediannie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,074
Jun 30, 2014 3:19:06 GMT
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Post by jediannie on May 15, 2022 17:05:46 GMT
I agree with your son. Get your own group of friends together and crop. This is what I would do if you're able. My friends and I used to set up a monthly crop date pre-covid and it was so nice. We'd rotate homes so nobody had to host every time. For meals we'd just Doordash or get pizza so we could fully focus on having fun. We even did goodie bags (we'd all bring one $5 item for each person) and occasionally would have challenges/play a game and give a prize to the winner. There were only 5 of us max (usually only 3 would show regularly) so it wasn't too expensive. |
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Post by amp on May 15, 2022 19:44:08 GMT
I'm sensitive, but this is over the top. And these people are not nice. I think your son is spot on: crop with a small group of your friends.
Once I attended a crop at my LSS (back when we had a lot of LSS in the area)...and one of the attendees at my table started teasing me. About what, I can't remember. It was probably 15 to 20 years ago. We knew each other, as we attended the same church, but we weren't close. It bothered me to the point where I didn't crop at that store again. Blatant racism...that's just plain wrong and I definitely wouldn't want to be around those people. Good that you said something!
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Post by hmp on May 15, 2022 20:18:35 GMT
Like you, I wouldn’t be able to sit there & keep my mouth shut. I would leave because I wouldn’t want a group like that tainting my time with a hobby I love. Some places I’ve scrapped in include church/temple halls or class rooms, middle & high schools, libraries, Masonic lodges, VFW hall, town hall meeting room. There are lots of good, alternative choices for crop sites out there. Hope you find an option that works for you. Good luck!
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Post by cmpeter on May 15, 2022 20:25:59 GMT
I would have a really hard time continuing to attend. What area are you in? Maybe we Peas can find you an alternative crop?
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Post by kmage on May 15, 2022 20:48:03 GMT
I had to vote stop attending. I am not sure if you said this crop was at a store, I know you mentioned good lighting and tables, but there are other places to find these. I applaud you for speaking up and I would make sure that the organizer of this crop as well as the other people know that you left due to the innapropriate and hateful speach. From what you were saying, it was far beyond a "difference of opinion" and I would not recommend putting on headphones and trying to deal with it.
Can I ask what your friend thinks? If she is tolerant, I would be concerned that she was condoning the speech. If she just has earbuds in to block it out, what is the point of even being together?
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Post by CardBoxer on May 15, 2022 20:54:35 GMT
Thinking about the white supremacist shooter who killed ten people in a grocery store because he believes that blacks will replace whites, about the 86-year-old woman he shot who was shopping after visiting her husband in a nursing home, the security guard who died trying to protect the shoppers, about all of them. And about the hate that’s become more acceptable.
So being a a room with those women with their thinly veiled racism and hatred toward other groups? If I continued without standing up for the people they hate I’d be complicit. And if it was too hard to say something - and it can be extremely hard - I would not return but let the owner know why, via email or phone.
The loss of a place to crop with like-minded people is sad. But they’re not like-minded. I hope you figure out a way to get together with some other scrappers.
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Post by CardBoxer on May 15, 2022 21:39:02 GMT
Does anyone remember this? If I find it hard to speak up, I channel the young woman in this video who tells the racist shopper who was verbally assaulting two women for speaking Spanish that it was not okay to harass them. I want to be her when I grow up. Of course she‘s young enough to be my daughter and then some, but who’s counting. Imagine if everyone who was disgusted by racism and other isms stood up against it. www.denverpost.com/2018/10/05/colorado-women-defends-spanish-speakers-grocery-store/ |
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Post by wagleg on May 15, 2022 22:25:36 GMT
I feel this so much. I attended a couple of classes at my local LSS back in Texas and found the same thing. Political discussions, how terrible immigrants are, etc. I really wish the owner of the store (who was in there) would have put a stop to the discussions. She did not. It was clear she agreed. I stopped going. I knew I didn't belong but it made me sad. Good for you for speaking up. I'm sorry that happened. Would your LSS happen to have been in Corsicana? |
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Post by 950nancy on May 16, 2022 0:06:01 GMT
I would probably speak up. I might not go postal, but I usually have enough information to have a counterpoint to the issue. I have several conservative friends and have seen enough Fox News to know why they believe this stuff. If I felt like it didn't stop, I just wouldn't attend.
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edie3
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,663
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Post by edie3 on May 16, 2022 0:12:43 GMT
I would have to let them know why I was no longer attending.
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Post by scrappyem on May 16, 2022 0:47:41 GMT
I feel this so much. I attended a couple of classes at my local LSS back in Texas and found the same thing. Political discussions, how terrible immigrants are, etc. I really wish the owner of the store (who was in there) would have put a stop to the discussions. She did not. It was clear she agreed. I stopped going. I knew I didn't belong but it made me sad. Good for you for speaking up. I'm sorry that happened. Would your LSS happen to have been in Corsicana? No, it was outside of Dallas. |
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Post by myboysnme on May 16, 2022 1:04:07 GMT
Thank you everyone. I have and continue to read every comment. My friend is a woman of color. She says she has heard this stuff her entire life and it never makes anyone change their opinion to offer alternate views. She said she decides when she has heard enough and just stops attending, but she is VERY VERY good at tuning out. She said she tries to look at if they have other qualities that help her overlook their ignorance.
I on the other hand speak up not just for myself but for her and everyone else they are maligning. Now on the surface these are lovely ladies. But as soon as they get on these topics I tense up. I have never been one to just sit by silently.
Why do we still go? We have no LSS. Crops are few and far between. These are held at a new community center in a small meeting room and are free. It can fit about 12 of us and normally there are maybe 8 or so attending. That puts us in close hearing proximity of everyone else even if they are just talking to the person next to them. One crop that was like this we did stop going to and I think the hostess was glad as her "customers" were not happy with my request they refrain from their opinionated topics of conversation as it was offensive.
I messaged my friend and asked if she would be open to ceasing our attendance. I certainly am and based on my pea friends' responses, I think I would be complicit if I keep attending.
I like the idea of a room at the library. I will look into that. The other crop I go to there are 2 very very loud and constant talkers but there we can spread out as it is a large room and I can use ear buds if I want without anyone thinking I don't want to chat. Which I don't but with so few people in a small room there is less ability to separate myself.
My only other idea is for everyone on this thread to scrap with me every month. Because then I know I would have the company of intelligent people who love papercrafting and have no desire to espouse ignorant views. I live in Virginia so put that in your travel plans! Not doable I know but just putting it out in the universe!
I will come back and update what I end up doing and I think I will message the hostess no matter what. In the mean time if anyone else wants to share thoughts I will continue to take all comments into my thought processes.
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