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Post by auntkelly on May 17, 2022 13:58:08 GMT
If it were me, I would not write the letter for a number of reasons, including the fact that once I put down those words on paper and give it to the PA, I pretty much loose all control over who sees that letter and how my words are used. It might turn out that three years after I write that letter the PA is convicted of molesting 14 patients. On the news story about his conviction I hear the newscaster say “Despite his conviction, some patients remain fiercely loyal. Aunt Kelly, for example writes, ‘he always provided excellent treatment . . .I’ll always be grateful to him.’ “ Of course, there is no mention of the fact that I wrote the letter three years’ ago, that they cut and pasted phrases from the letter and that I now think the man is pond scum.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:32:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 14:55:34 GMT
I would absolutely write a letter outlining exactly how he treated me. She isn't doing anything other than telling the complete factual truth, right? There shouldn't be any hesitation in doing so. You never know, the person who accused him could have had a crush on him, acted on that crush, and was turned down. This accusation could be due to hurt feelings and revenge. And your friend doesn't need to wonder or worry whether he is guilty or not. She just tells the truth and that's it. Ah misogyny, it's not just for men is it?!
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 17, 2022 15:13:05 GMT
I’ll be the voice of dissent. I wouldn’t. He is being investigated for sexual misconduct against one patient; if the practice or investigating board reached out to me to ask me if he had also engaged in misconduct against me because they were seeing, assuming a possible problem, if there were other possible victims, that would be one thing. It sounds like he wants her to write a letter explaining he was professional with her to help him show that If he was professional with her, he probably was not unprofessional with this other person. So, you say that. "I can't speak to his conduct with other patients but my experience was. . ."
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 17, 2022 16:11:17 GMT
My thoughts are this NP is asking all the patients he didn't do anything inappropriate with for character references in a criminal case. the NP shouldn't be asking for this, really, should he? shouldn't it be decided only on the basis of the actual person the case is against? Or the investigators should collect impartial information from the other patients, NOT the defendant?? I mean, I agree- just because he may not have harassed 99 other people who write letters for him, then the word of those 99 people should somehow out-weigh the word of the one person he DID harass?? thinking that may influence the court's decision leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Post by sabrinae on May 17, 2022 18:24:08 GMT
I’m confused why he’s asking. These type of letters won’t be admissible in court for trial - if it’s a criminal case. They would only be allowed at the sentencing phase. If it’s a medical board I would think the investigators for the medical board or maybe the attorney for the def would reach out. I suppose it’s possible that he’s doing some of the leg work himself to save on legal fees. I wouldn’t write one for the same reasons others have stated — eg bo control of it after I wrote it, I wouldn’t want my experiences being used to disprove someone else’s experience because they’re not related. I would answer any questions from the investigators
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Post by mcjunkin on May 17, 2022 18:54:02 GMT
Just playing devil's advocate.....all of you who say you would NOT write a letter......
What if you were falsely accused of something.....100% you did not do whatever thing you were accused and arrested for. Your lawyer recommends that you get character witness statements. Would you say "no" to the lawyer's advice?
Not saying this doctor is innocent. Not really a statement on this particular case at all. Just curious as to those who say they would not give a statement.....would you ever ask for a similar statement?
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Post by bc2ca on May 17, 2022 19:11:36 GMT
I disagree. She is simply providing information and telling the truth. I don’t see that as taking a side. So, you say that. "I can't speak to his conduct with other patients but my experience was. . ." IME, a stack of letters like this is presented as evidence of good character by the defense. By providing a letter you are taking a side. The defendant's side. I wouldn't expect a judge to even read them all, but she could weigh the number of people willing to write letters about his good behavior. I referenced the Brock Turner case up thread. Many of the people that wrote glowing character references at the request of his family regretted it when the details of the case came out. But their letters were still in the stack presented to the judge during the sentencing phase. IME, an arrest for sexual misconduct doesn't get made without some sort of evidence. There is confusion as to how and where the letter would be used. Pressure the DA to throw out the case/victim to back out? Lesser charge plea deal? Sentencing after conviction? Reinstatement at work? Licensing board? And back to the how does this guy have any patient contact information if he is suspended from work? And even if he somehow legitimately has the information, contacting them for a personal request is not appropriate. I'm still a hard no on providing the requested letter.
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Post by bc2ca on May 17, 2022 19:14:12 GMT
What if you were falsely accused of something.....100% you did not do whatever thing you were accused and arrested for. Your lawyer recommends that you get character witness statements. Would you say "no" to the lawyer's advice? I would follow my lawyer's advice but I wouldn't expect everyone I ask to provide the letter. ETA DH and I were asked to provide a character letter for someone many years ago without knowing anything about the case. We did because of our relationship with her. She was 100% guilty of the charges and convicted. I'm not sure if/how the letters influenced the sentencing.
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Post by busy on May 17, 2022 19:43:15 GMT
Just playing devil's advocate.....all of you who say you would NOT write a letter...... What if you were falsely accused of something.....100% you did not do whatever thing you were accused and arrested for. Your lawyer recommends that you get character witness statements. Would you say "no" to the lawyer's advice? Not saying this doctor is innocent. Not really a statement on this particular case at all. Just curious as to those who say they would not give a statement.....would you ever ask for a similar statement? I sure as hell would not ask my business clients to do anything on my behalf as an individual if I hoped to still have a career in the future. That fact that this guy is personally, directly contacting patients and asking for something like this doesn't read "great with boundaries" to me.
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Post by Mel on May 17, 2022 19:47:24 GMT
She doesn’t know if it’s a valid or false accusation she can only speak to her own experience and I would absolutely do that. This exactly!!! There might be some underlying reason that he is being accused (maybe the person that is accusing was actually trying to get back at him for not accepting their flirting, etc.), people can be so cruel & just mean when they are "scorned". If your friend has had a good experience and been helped by him, she should definitely write the letter.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 12:32:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 19:54:36 GMT
Of course a poor man has been ruthlessly targeted by a scorned woman who's advances he rejected, what other possible explanation could there be that she's accused him? Also can anyone explain why a lot of sexual assault victims never come forward 🤔
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Post by mollycoddle on May 17, 2022 19:55:41 GMT
I disagree. She is simply providing information and telling the truth. I don’t see that as taking a side. So, you say that. "I can't speak to his conduct with other patients but my experience was. . ." IME, a stack of letters like this is presented as evidence of good character by the defense. By providing a letter you are taking a side. The defendant's side. I wouldn't expect a judge to even read them all, but she could weigh the number of people willing to write letters about his good behavior. I referenced the Brock Turner case up thread. Many of the people that wrote glowing character references at the request of his family regretted it when the details of the case came out. But their letters were still in the stack presented to the judge during the sentencing phase. IME, an arrest for sexual misconduct doesn't get made without some sort of evidence. There is confusion as to how and where the letter would be used. Pressure the DA to throw out the case/victim to back out? Lesser charge plea deal? Sentencing after conviction? Reinstatement at work? Licensing board? And back to the how does this guy have any patient contact information if he is suspended from work? And even if he somehow legitimately has the information, contacting them for a personal request is not appropriate. I'm still a hard no on providing the requested letter. Eh, we can agree to disagree. I can’t see anything wrong with providing a factual account of her interaction with him. As Jo noted, she can make it obvious that she is only speaking for herself.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 17, 2022 20:00:40 GMT
Just playing devil's advocate.....all of you who say you would NOT write a letter...... What if you were falsely accused of something.....100% you did not do whatever thing you were accused and arrested for. Your lawyer recommends that you get character witness statements. Would you say "no" to the lawyer's advice? Not saying this doctor is innocent. Not really a statement on this particular case at all. Just curious as to those who say they would not give a statement.....would you ever ask for a similar statement?I guess I figured the lawyer would be reaching out to the people to get the character statements, and not the defendant?? Me getting the statements myself just doesn't seem official, in some way... I've never thought about such a situation and how that info is collected. And back to the how does this guy have any patient contact information if he is suspended from work? And even if he somehow legitimately has the information, contacting them for a personal request is not appropriate. ^^^ that. I could see a case where you ask someone to give you a character reference based on your relationship, but once you know what the case is about, doesn't that make you somewhat biased on how you will write the content of your letter? It just doesn't feel impartial to me for someone to write a letter about their relationship with the NP after they (somehow) found out what the charges are about. It's a professional matter that should have a concrete process for how it's handled; I really don't think the person themselves contacting random other patients would/should be part of that process. (eta: I just googled 'medical professional misconduct' and the few legal websites I quickly scanned all say the information gathering process should be handled by the investigators. Not the person themselves.)
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Post by busy on May 17, 2022 20:09:34 GMT
IME, a stack of letters like this is presented as evidence of good character by the defense. By providing a letter you are taking a side. The defendant's side. I wouldn't expect a judge to even read them all, but she could weigh the number of people willing to write letters about his good behavior. I referenced the Brock Turner case up thread. Many of the people that wrote glowing character references at the request of his family regretted it when the details of the case came out. But their letters were still in the stack presented to the judge during the sentencing phase. IME, an arrest for sexual misconduct doesn't get made without some sort of evidence. There is confusion as to how and where the letter would be used. Pressure the DA to throw out the case/victim to back out? Lesser charge plea deal? Sentencing after conviction? Reinstatement at work? Licensing board? And back to the how does this guy have any patient contact information if he is suspended from work? And even if he somehow legitimately has the information, contacting them for a personal request is not appropriate. I'm still a hard no on providing the requested letter. Eh, we can agree to disagree. I can’t see anything wrong with providing a factual account of her interaction with him. As Jo noted, she can make it obvious that she is only speaking for herself. But... WHY. WHY go out of the way for someone with whom you only have a professional relationship in this kind of situation? Even if it's a "factual account of her interaction" - WHY. This is the accused asking for it, not the police or the employer or a licensing agency. It's the accused, who wants to clear his name. By giving him what he asked for, you're helping him and you have zero idea if he's guilty or not. I'm not in the habit of giving accused abusers a helping hand. They're innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn't mean I need to get involved.
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Post by mcjunkin on May 17, 2022 20:34:05 GMT
Eh, we can agree to disagree. I can’t see anything wrong with providing a factual account of her interaction with him. As Jo noted, she can make it obvious that she is only speaking for herself. But... WHY. WHY go out of the way for someone with whom you only have a professional relationship in this kind of situation? Even if it's a "factual account of her interaction" - WHY. This is the accused asking for it, not the police or the employer or a licensing agency. It's the accused, who wants to clear his name. By giving him what he asked for, you're helping him and you have zero idea if he's guilty or not. I'm not in the habit of giving accused abusers a helping hand. They're innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn't mean I need to get involved. He is being accused of inappropriate behavior in one of his professional relationships. Statements from his other professional relationships could be seen as relevant. Now, if it were inappropriate behavior outside the office, I would argue statements from patients have zero relevance.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 17, 2022 21:00:14 GMT
Statements from his other professional relationships could be seen as relevant. I *totally* agree with this. But HE shouldn't be the one requesting those statements- his lawyer or licensing agency, whoever is doing the investigating, whatever that association is called in the state where he practices- THEY should be requesting those statements on his BEHALF. NOT HIM. (in my opinion)
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Post by mollycoddle on May 17, 2022 21:15:49 GMT
But... WHY. WHY go out of the way for someone with whom you only have a professional relationship in this kind of situation? Even if it's a "factual account of her interaction" - WHY. This is the accused asking for it, not the police or the employer or a licensing agency. It's the accused, who wants to clear his name. By giving him what he asked for, you're helping him and you have zero idea if he's guilty or not. I'm not in the habit of giving accused abusers a helping hand. They're innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn't mean I need to get involved. He is being accused of inappropriate behavior in one of his professional relationships. Statements from his other professional relationships could be seen as relevant. Now, if it were inappropriate behavior outside the office, I would argue statements from patients have zero relevance. This. I would do it because she saw him a lot-at least 25 times-so she has a good idea of his professionalism. In the end, if there is evidence about him, it won’t matter. Nor should it.
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peaname
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,390
Aug 16, 2014 23:15:53 GMT
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Post by peaname on May 18, 2022 0:57:38 GMT
I think the problem is that we all know a professional can have thousands of perfectly good and professional interactions with patients AND also commit sexual assault, etc. And we all also know that it’s possible that he was falsely accused. So no, the OP’s friend’s commentary doesn’t mean he acted appropriately with other patients but what harm is there in telling her truth?
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Post by mcjunkin on May 18, 2022 12:30:34 GMT
Statements from his other professional relationships could be seen as relevant. I *totally* agree with this. But HE shouldn't be the one requesting those statements- his lawyer or licensing agency, whoever is doing the investigating, whatever that association is called in the state where he practices- THEY should be requesting those statements on his BEHALF. NOT HIM. (in my opinion) Fair point.
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