casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Jun 22, 2022 22:12:13 GMT
Usage will need to be drastically reducedBeau of the 5th Column posted that the states using water from the Colorado have a pretty short window of time to reduce water usage. If the Peas were in charge,, what suggestions would you have? This is BIG.
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Post by Lexica on Jun 22, 2022 23:39:45 GMT
Wow that was eye opening. I removed the grass in my yard and replaced it with a spreading rosemary plant that doesn’t need much water. I also put in a lavender border that doesn’t need much water. The only thing that requires regular watering out front is my flower pots and the small flower bed near the sidewalk. I received a letter from the water district telling me that in doing this, I cut my water consumption by 44%. I also started doing what I call a camping shower. I turn the water on, get wet, turn it off, soap up and shampoo my hair, and turn the water back on to rinse all the soap off. I don’t know how much water it saves to shut it off like that but just the thought of water pouring down the drain while I am soaping is too wasteful for me. Plus, my shower isn’t all that large that I can get away from the spray and I don’t want the soap washed off too soon. My downfall is that I have a pool and I’m sure the evaporation is horribly wasteful. I know I have to keep an eye on the water level all the time.
Besides changing out my landscaping and changing the way I shower, I also don’t hose down the driveway anymore. I used to do that every week after I cut the grass. Not having the grass mess has cut down the need, but I would still like to hose the driveway down maybe monthly. I haven’t done it though. I sweep instead.
I guess I answered your question for what I have personally changed, not what I would come up with for the state. Well, I suppose we could all do a camping shower and get rid of our grass.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,837
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Jun 23, 2022 0:57:44 GMT
I'm thinking S. California here, but I know more than just that area uses water from the Colorado...
Quit building more homes that pull water from the Colorado.
No more golf courses- those that are there already must use desalination from the ocean (if in decent proximity) or reclaimed water to water their courses. (I live on a course that uses reclaimed water from our sewage treatment plant. It was actually designed to do so!)
Get rid of swimming pools.
Xeriscape with local native plants.
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Post by mom2jnk on Jun 23, 2022 1:48:00 GMT
"understand, the climate issues aren't waiting. They're here." 100% THIS!
I've been teaching about the impending disaster on the Colorado River watershed for years now in my Environmental Science and Sustainability classes. We knew this was coming. But the reality is worse than even the most pessimistic models, which scares the crap out of me.
Our country has willfully covered it's ears and closed it's eyes and sang lalala forever and pretended there wasn't an issue for decades. Hell, the water in the Colorado River was overallocated from the beginning in the 1920s. We ignored the warning signs, we kept building more cities and growing food crops in the desert. And now, this is going to hurt in ways that you can't imagine.
We need a fundamental change in the way we produce our food. 70% of available freshwater in this country is used for agriculture. Due to subsidies, industrial farming, concentrated animal feedlots, globalization, and many other environmentally hostile practices, we have the cheapest food in the world and can eat any type of produce in the dead of winter. I think that the latest figures that I saw were that we spend only about 6% of our income on food, among the lowest of any nation. We do not pay the true cost of producing our food. We are draining our rivers and aquifers dry producing vast quantities of low quality cheap food.
We need a wholesale fundamental change in the way we produce our food, along with a pricing structure that takes into account the environmental and social damage producing it causes.
Personal water conservation strategies like not allowing lawns or car washing and conserving water use in your home are important because every drop of water is going to count, but they pale in magnitude to the consumption of water by agriculture.
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Post by compeateropeator on Jun 23, 2022 1:58:57 GMT
I think the West coast needs to start looking at desalination plants…now…before things are past the critical point and we decide we needed them yesterday. It is not going to be an easy or cheap fix but we are going to have to do something. iMO.
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Ryann
Pearl Clutcher
Love is Inclusive
Posts: 2,620
Location: PNW
May 31, 2021 3:14:17 GMT
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Post by Ryann on Jun 23, 2022 2:10:49 GMT
"understand, the climate issues aren't waiting. They're here." 100% THIS! I've been teaching about the impending disaster on the Colorado River watershed for years now in my Environmental Science and Sustainability classes. We knew this was coming. But the reality is worse than even the most pessimistic models, which scares the crap out of me. Our country has willfully covered it's ears and closed it's eyes and sang lalala forever and pretended there wasn't an issue for decades. Hell, the water in the Colorado River was overallocated from the beginning in the 1920s. We ignored the warning signs, we kept building more cities and growing food crops in the desert. And now, this is going to hurt in ways that you can't imagine. We need a fundamental change in the way we produce our food. 70% of available freshwater in this country is used for agriculture. Due to subsidies, industrial farming, concentrated animal feedlots, globalization, and many other environmentally hostile practices, we have the cheapest food in the world and can eat any type of produce in the dead of winter. I think that the latest figures that I saw were that we spend only about 6% of our income on food, among the lowest of any nation. We do not pay the true cost of producing our food. We are draining our rivers and aquifers dry producing vast quantities of low quality cheap food. We need a wholesale fundamental change in the way we produce our food, along with a pricing structure that takes into account the environmental and social damage producing it causes. Personal water conservation strategies like not allowing lawns or car washing and conserving water use in your home are important because every drop of water is going to count, but they pale in magnitude to the consumption of water by agriculture. I'm pretty crap at articulating my answer when I'm asked why I "stopped eating meat", but your post sums it up quite nicely. The amount of natural resources used in (industrial) agriculture is astronomical and completely unsustainable. It is killing the planet and everything that lives on it. Mad Max, here we come! Guns and deserts!!
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Post by fredfreddy44 on Jun 23, 2022 2:16:50 GMT
Generally:
Stop selling the crops we grow in California to other countries.
Stop wasting food. We throw away so much food and a lot of water was used to grow it. Allow unsold food to be given away.
Stop letting companies bottle water from rivers and selling it.
Stop growing food in places that will not support it.
Personally we:
- ripped out our lawn 3 years ago and grow food instead and it uses less water (use drip irrigation). Obviously not everyone can do this.
-do if it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down (80% of the time)
-have a reverse osmosis system and take the by product water to a cistern to water our non food plants
-small things like shorter showers and turning off the water for hand washing and dish washing
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Post by bc2ca on Jun 23, 2022 2:35:13 GMT
I think the West coast needs to start looking at desalination plants…now…before things are past the critical point and we decide we needed them yesterday. Desalination plants come with their own problems as they are high energy users, contribute significantly to greenhouse gases and the increased salinity of the ocean impacts marine life. That being said, there are 12 in California right now. The largest is in Carlsbad (San Diego County) and has been up and running since 2015, providing 10% of the water used in the County. More and more of our neighbors are taking out lawns and going with drought resistant xeriscapes. Adding graywater systems to homes is another way we can more efficiently use/reuse water.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jun 23, 2022 4:06:59 GMT
Elect people who believe this is a problem and will work on it instead of bowing down to money as usual.
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Post by chaosisapony on Jun 23, 2022 4:18:23 GMT
We've been burying our head in the sand about water issues for the entire time I have been alive. I vividly remember my dad talking about being in a drought when I was 6. Well guess what, it's now been proven we've been in one for WAY longer than that and have never truly come out of it. Yet I constantly see more lawns, more swimming pools, more car washes.
Why don't we capture our rain water? Why don't we normalize wearing clothing more than once or twice before washing it? I'd be 100% ok with a ban on installation of lawns. We need drought resistant landscaping. And it can be done beautifully with native plants, it doesn't have to be ugly. Local governments and companies need to be on board too. Every single day I drive through a high school that has sprinklers watering some big medians between the school and the road. It makes me so angry. Those medians do not need to be kept green. It's incredibly wasteful.
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Post by ~summer~ on Jun 23, 2022 4:37:58 GMT
I would really raise the price of beef so that it is a once in a while treat not an every day meal. no green lawns. no big pools.
eta - I always hear that almonds use so much water, but who are these people buying so many almonds lol
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Post by Zee on Jun 23, 2022 7:44:11 GMT
I would really raise the price of beef so that it is a once in a while treat not an every day meal. no green lawns. no big pools. eta - I always hear that almonds use so much water, but who are these people buying so many almonds lol Almond milk is a big one. If your lawn can't naturally stay green, don't have one Shut down Las Vegas Don't live where the earth can't support you Stop fighting pandemics and natural disasters, the earth is clearly trying to shrug us off Just some impractical thoughts...
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Sarah*H
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Posts: 4,019
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 23, 2022 11:42:24 GMT
My brother lives in Grand County, CO (where the headwaters of the river are) and this is an every day concern for them. Obviously the original agreement needs to be revised. And it's such a complicated issue that touches so many other public policy matters. For example, I read an article about overcoming barriers to build higher density low income housing in LA to deal with the lack of affordable housing which is an important public policy concern, right? But then someone asked - where are we going to get the water for thousands of new housing units? And if you've been to Denver any time recently, you can see the thousands and thousands of new homes on the former prairie. That water all comes from the other side of the range. I've read so many articles with great ideas about measures that can be implemented, research that's being done, things that the ranchers and farmers along the Colorado are doing, etc. but I think it's going to take government mandates for real change to occur. We assume that it will take a crisis for people to act but the reality is that it's already a crisis for the people in Colorado whose water is being diverted and no one who isn't directly affected seems to care.
Anyway, this is a topic that is fascinating to me and I'm glad that there is finally some public attention to it because the crisis is about to spread fast. Maybe seeing the catastrophic drop in water levels in Lake Powell and Lake Meade will finally result in efforts to find a long term solution.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,019
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 23, 2022 11:45:05 GMT
I would really raise the price of beef so that it is a once in a while treat not an every day meal. no green lawns. no big pools. eta - I always hear that almonds use so much water, but who are these people buying so many almonds lol Almond milk is a big one. If your lawn can't naturally stay green, don't have one Shut down Las Vegas Don't live where the earth can't support you Stop fighting pandemics and natural disasters, the earth is clearly trying to shrug us off Just some impractical thoughts... So actually of all of the metropolitan areas taking the water, Vegas is doing a pretty good job of curbing usage. They have adopted a lot of innovative measures that have made a real difference.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Jun 23, 2022 12:47:01 GMT
I don't live in the effected areas, but I started doing my very small part by switching from almond milk oddly after seeing an episode of The Good Place where Chidi said it was terrible for the environment.
I think someone is going to have to step in and mandate changes, but will anyone stand up to corporations or big agriculture? The alternative is a bit of a Mad Max scenario.
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Post by Lexica on Jun 23, 2022 14:25:39 GMT
I don't live in the effected areas, but I started doing my very small part by switching from almond milk oddly after seeing an episode of The Good Place where Chidi said it was terrible for the environment. I think someone is going to have to step in and mandate changes, but will anyone stand up to corporations or big agriculture? The alternative is a bit of a Mad Max scenario. Oh crap. I drink almond milk. What is your alternative. Oat milk? Soy milk? To be fair, I don’t drink milk from a glass anymore. The only beverage I drink is ice water. I use the almond milk on my oatmeal but I will have no problem switching. I do the toilet thing with the upstairs toilets and try to avoid using the downstairs one, leaving it for guests. We have never flushed at night because I grew up in a house with a light sleeper who complained that the flush woke them. It made me learn to stop night flushing. This is another small change, but I pulled my sprinkler system and water by hand because it is less wasteful. Time consuming, but at least there isn’t the large waste. I have also noticed that my city has been redoing the medians with low water plants and a few with spots of artificial grass. I have always been curious about the maintenance of artificial grass. How do they clean it? Do they have to use a blower or a bag-containment vacuum on it?
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Post by workingclassdog on Jun 23, 2022 14:44:35 GMT
I wish ya'll quit using our Colorado River!! Colorado is so dry.
(I AM kidding about using the River...) I wish there was an easy answer to this problem though
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 23, 2022 16:47:30 GMT
we heard inklings about this last year- the water usage issues is one of the reasons I wanted to leave Arizona. Not because we used a lot of water personally, but because I knew the weather and water issues would just get worse and worse for the whole state.
off to watch his video now.
eta: we never had an entire lawn of grass (just a small patch) and the last house didn't even have that- just xeriscaping. We also didn't have a pool. I think the developers lied at least a little (probably a LOT) because supposedly, they had to show that there was a water supply for something like 50-75 years (?) in order to get a new housing development approved. But in the DESERT, I just don't believe that could be true-- not nearly enough water for the thousands of houses they built.
When we lived in Maricopa (a town south of Phoenix that experienced HUGE hypergrowth + a huge CRASH during the 2000s housing crisis) our house was serviced by a PRIVATE, FOR-PROFIT water company whose headquarters are in Canada. It cost us NINETY DOLLARS just to get the water TO OUR HOUSE! That was before we ever even flushed a toilet or turned on a faucet. And the Arizona Corporation Commission kept approving huge rate increases-- the company said they couldn't recoup their infrastructure investment because of the housing crash. (but they also had to keep their profit margin up for their shareholders.)
I think a lot of golf courses already use gray water for irrigation... they really need to look at the agricultural usage, cut down on the feed lots and stop raising cattle / feed for the cattle, and look at the water that's used during building- in those new housing developments, water trucks would drive around and spray down the dirt to keep down the dust. (because poor air quality due to high particulate counts was also a prevalent problem.)
In general, I was always amazed at the amount of commercial and residential development there was around Phoenix-- everywhere you looked, there was another housing development or commercial development going up. Even though there were PLENTY of existing houses, and empty commercial properties, they keep building more. I think they should also severely restrict that to help reduce water / utility usage.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,837
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Jun 23, 2022 18:49:51 GMT
Everyone drawing water from the Colorado River should be required to read The Cadillac Desert.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 23, 2022 19:04:14 GMT
not specifically related to the Colorado River watershed, but manufacturing clothing uses a HUGE amount of water also, I think... I follow a few people on Instagram who are very much into 'mending' (with very cool sewing, btw) and fixing their clothes instead of constantly buying new and trying to get out of the 'fast fashion / very cheap quality' clothing trap.
In addition to the 'wash it the minute you take it off' attitude that some people have about wearing clothes, as already mentioned above.
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Post by lisae on Jun 23, 2022 22:04:38 GMT
I think we should talk to our friends in Australia who have been dealing with water shortages for a long time. I'm sure they have already implemented many plans and have a better idea of what is effective and what is not. This problem will likely spread to other areas of the country. It has been very dry here in NC this year. We've had other dry years, but we need to be prepared in case the rains don't return with their usual frequency.
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Post by mom2jnk on Jun 24, 2022 1:12:47 GMT
not specifically related to the Colorado River watershed, but manufacturing clothing uses a HUGE amount of water also, I think... I follow a few people on Instagram who are very much into 'mending' (with very cool sewing, btw) and fixing their clothes instead of constantly buying new and trying to get out of the 'fast fashion / very cheap quality' clothing trap. In addition to the 'wash it the minute you take it off' attitude that some people have about wearing clothes, as already mentioned above. I don't think manufacturing clothing uses nearly as much water as you think. Now, growing conventional cotton requires significant amounts of water and a boatload of pesticides, but the only clothing manufacturing that I know of that requires moderate amounts of water is leather tanning and such. Very little clothing is made in the US, so this doesn't figure significantly into our domestic fresh water issues. But if you want an eye opening view of the environmental and social costs of clothing manufacturing in other developing nations, especially the manufacture of 'fast fashion,' I highly recommend the film "The True Cost." I love all the new emphasis on "visible mending" that I see these days. Our 21 year old DD has developed quite a talent for this type of hand embroidery and refreshing clothing that might otherwise get thrown away. So much fun!
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Post by cannes on Jun 24, 2022 15:09:30 GMT
I think the developers lied at least a little (probably a LOT) because supposedly, they had to show that there was a water supply for something like 50-75 years (?) in order to get a new housing development approved. But in the DESERT, I just don't believe that could be true-- not nearly enough water for the thousands of houses they built. They did not lie. Pinal county requires developers to show that there is enough ground water to supply the housing development for 100 years or it won’t be approved. It’s interesting to me that the call is to reduce the amount of water agriculture uses. A little research into modern farmers and ranchers and how they use water might be a good use of time. Why target agriculture? Seems to me that reducing the amount of swimming pools, fountains, lakes in housing developments and car washes would be a better place to start.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 24, 2022 17:34:55 GMT
"Irrigated agriculture is the largest user of water in Arizona, consuming about 74 percent of the available water supply." THAT is why.
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Post by cannes on Jun 24, 2022 18:36:53 GMT
"Irrigated agriculture is the largest user of water in Arizona, consuming about 74 percent of the available water supply." THAT is why.
You eat and you wear clothes, no? That makes you part of the agricultural water consumer. A nation that cannot feed its citizens is a nation that is not secure. The efforts that the Ag industry are taking to reduce their water consumption and be more efficient with their water uses are out ther if you (general you) take the time to research it, rather than relying on a general sound bite or statistic. Below are a couple to get you (general you) started. But hey, let’s make sure everyone has a pool and can use their unlimited monthly car wash pass. Because that’s more important than feeding and clothing a nation. www.azfb.org/Article/Arizona-Agricultures-Water-Technology-Advanceswww.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-statistics-charting-the-essentials/ag-and-food-sectors-and-the-economy/The first paragraph in your link supports that agriculture is making efforts to reduce their water usage. Did you miss that? Irrigated agriculture is the largest user of water in Arizona, consuming about 74 percent of the available water supply. In the past, this percentage was as high as 90 percent; reductions have been the result of both urbanization of agricultural lands and heavy investment by the irrigated agriculture industry in conservation measures both on-farm and in delivery systems.
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,295
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:46 GMT
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Post by iowgirl on Jun 24, 2022 22:51:30 GMT
I always hear that almonds use so much water, but who are these people buying so many almonds lol "Irrigated agriculture is the largest user of water in Arizona, consuming about 74 percent of the available water supply." THAT is why.Ag use is why a lot of these canals were created. Then people moved in and took the water too. It's a complicated matter for sure. But something does have to change. People waste SO much water!
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jun 25, 2022 0:17:29 GMT
My brother lives in Grand County, CO (where the headwaters of the river are) and this is an every day concern for them. Obviously the original agreement needs to be revised. And it's such a complicated issue that touches so many other public policy matters. For example, I read an article about overcoming barriers to build higher density low income housing in LA to deal with the lack of affordable housing which is an important public policy concern, right? But then someone asked - where are we going to get the water for thousands of new housing units? And if you've been to Denver any time recently, you can see the thousands and thousands of new homes on the former prairie. That water all comes from the other side of the range. I've read so many articles with great ideas about measures that can be implemented, research that's being done, things that the ranchers and farmers along the Colorado are doing, etc. but I think it's going to take government mandates for real change to occur. We assume that it will take a crisis for people to act but the reality is that it's already a crisis for the people in Colorado whose water is being diverted and no one who isn't directly affected seems to care. Anyway, this is a topic that is fascinating to me and I'm glad that there is finally some public attention to it because the crisis is about to spread fast. Maybe seeing the catastrophic drop in water levels in Lake Powell and Lake Meade will finally result in efforts to find a long term solution. Not really. Our dumbass AZ governor on the day there was press about changes to water usage due to low levels of Lake Powell was out there promoting golf in AZ.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jun 25, 2022 0:18:58 GMT
Almond milk is a big one. If your lawn can't naturally stay green, don't have one Shut down Las Vegas Don't live where the earth can't support you Stop fighting pandemics and natural disasters, the earth is clearly trying to shrug us off Just some impractical thoughts... So actually of all of the metropolitan areas taking the water, Vegas is doing a pretty good job of curbing usage. They have adopted a lot of innovative measures that have made a real difference. I was listening to an interview with a guy (can't remember his exact title) and he said actually the casinos do a good job (they are the first place people usually point fingers) - but he would make green lawns illegal.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jun 25, 2022 0:23:40 GMT
I think the developers lied at least a little (probably a LOT) because supposedly, they had to show that there was a water supply for something like 50-75 years (?) in order to get a new housing development approved. But in the DESERT, I just don't believe that could be true-- not nearly enough water for the thousands of houses they built. They did not lie. Pinal county requires developers to show that there is enough ground water to supply the housing development for 100 years or it won’t be approved. It’s interesting to me that the call is to reduce the amount of water agriculture uses. A little research into modern farmers and ranchers and how they use water might be a good use of time. Why target agriculture? Seems to me that reducing the amount of swimming pools, fountains, lakes in housing developments and car washes would be a better place to start. Because agriculture is the biggest use of water. In California towns have been sucked dry by farms drilling more wells and deeper. Almonds is a good example: About 80% of the world’s almonds are grown in California. A recent study found that between 2004 and 2015, it took an average of 12 liters of water to grow just one Californian almond, and almond farmers rely heavily on irrigation and groundwater reserves to water their crops. Almond production uses around 2 trillion liters of water per year and is contributing heavily to groundwater depletion and land degradation, according to Professor Yoshihide Wada, deputy director of the water program at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis. Groundwater levels in the Central Valley, where most almond crops are grown, dropped by almost a half-meter annually during California’s historic seven-year drought in 2011, according to a study by Cornell University. “It is unsustainable,” Wada said, adding that almond prices could rise if farmers keep pumping deeper to reach groundwater. “It’s economically unprofitable if you go too deep.” Many almond farmers are taking steps to cut water use, for example by using micro-irrigation systems, which apply water directly to tree roots. The Almond Board of California says that by 2025, the California almond community commits to reduce the amount of water used to grow a pound of almonds by an additional 20%.
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