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Post by aj2hall on Jul 2, 2022 3:35:24 GMT
Can you imagine if he runs in 2024? We are doomed. Gift article - no paywall wapo.st/3InTmyBIn his efforts to remake higher education in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis has signed laws that alter the tenure system, remove Florida universities from commonly accepted accreditation practices, and mandate annual “viewpoint diversity surveys” from students and faculty.
DeSantis (R) also pushed through legislation he dubbed the “Stop WOKE Act” that regulates what schools, including universities, and workplaces can teach about race and identity. The legislation — which went into effect Friday — already faces a legal challenge.he noted DeSantis’s significant national clout and said scrutiny of higher education sends a clear “message to the political base during an election year that ‘we care about your priorities.’ ”
In June, DeSantis lauded work experience over “a magic piece of paper which likely would have cost too much anyway” when he signed a law allowing state agencies to substitute work experience, including military experience, for college degrees in hiring.
“Give me somebody that served eight years in the Navy or the Marine Corps. That education is going to be much more beneficial and pertinent than someone that went $100,000 in debt to get a degree in zombie studies,” DeSantis said.From the Republican with degrees from Harvard and Yale. Since when is attacking higher education a priority? In the Republican fake culture wars? |
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Post by elaine on Jul 2, 2022 3:49:09 GMT
Can you imagine if he runs in 2024? We are doomed. Gift article - no paywall wapo.st/3InTmyBIn his efforts to remake higher education in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis has signed laws that alter the tenure system, remove Florida universities from commonly accepted accreditation practices, and mandate annual “viewpoint diversity surveys” from students and faculty.
DeSantis (R) also pushed through legislation he dubbed the “Stop WOKE Act” that regulates what schools, including universities, and workplaces can teach about race and identity. The legislation — which went into effect Friday — already faces a legal challenge.he noted DeSantis’s significant national clout and said scrutiny of higher education sends a clear “message to the political base during an election year that ‘we care about your priorities.’ ”
In June, DeSantis lauded work experience over “a magic piece of paper which likely would have cost too much anyway” when he signed a law allowing state agencies to substitute work experience, including military experience, for college degrees in hiring.
“Give me somebody that served eight years in the Navy or the Marine Corps. That education is going to be much more beneficial and pertinent than someone that went $100,000 in debt to get a degree in zombie studies,” DeSantis said.From the Republican with degrees from Harvard and Yale. Since when is attacking higher education a priority? In the Republican fake culture wars? Hasn’t this been a Republican agenda item for close to a decade now? The whole “institutions of higher education as liberal indoctrination hotbeds” thing. I want to say that it started with the Tea Party and their pride in Sarah Palin’s inability to speak to basic K-12 facts. Then you have Trump’s cluelessness as to who Frederick Douglass was and that troops took over the airports during the revolutionary war. This is just one article from 2017, that cites Pew Research: www.insightintodiversity.com/survey-shows-major-decline-in-republicans-confidence-in-higher-education/ |
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Post by elaine on Jul 2, 2022 4:08:26 GMT
Let me just add that I saw my first “DeSantis 2024” bumper sticker today in a local grocery store parking lot. I find a portion of humanity so depressing these days.
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 2, 2022 4:09:56 GMT
I saw a big yard sign with DeSantis, no year. Not sure which is worse.
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Post by katlady on Jul 2, 2022 4:13:56 GMT
I feel like we are going backwards, with Florida taking the lead.  |
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Post by compeateropeator on Jul 2, 2022 5:44:45 GMT
Can’t stand the man. Do not agree with 99.9% of what he says. Do not agree with stop the woke or whatever the hell he wants to call it. Do not agree with discouraging/attacking higher education or undermining its importance.
All that said…
I do think work and military experience can provide some people with a wealth of knowledge, experience, and training that can often be equivalent to higher education for some fields and types of jobs. I think there are a lot of ways to learn.
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 2, 2022 10:39:55 GMT
Can’t stand the man. Do not agree with 99.9% of what he says. Do not agree with stop the woke or whatever the hell he wants to call it. Do not agree with discouraging/attacking higher education or undermining its importance. All that said… I do think work and military experience can provide some people with a wealth of knowledge, experience, and training that can often be equivalent to higher education for some fields and types of jobs. I think there are a lot of ways to learn. I agree with that, too. It’s just the hypocrisy of someone who attended Harvard and Yale attacking the benefits of higher education. And he’s spreading falsehoods - he knows first hand the practical benefits of a higher education but suggests that they teach zombie studies or that all you receive is a worthless piece of paper. |
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Post by Merge on Jul 2, 2022 12:05:57 GMT
He’s absolutely full of shit. Military can be great for those who want it. I’d totally support some kind of paid non-military domestic service program for young people as well.
The purpose of education is not to indoctrinate you. It’s supposed to be to give you the tools to examine whatever life experiences you have through the lens of logic and empathy, with some background awareness of the history and science that might underpin those experiences. DeSantis and his people are very opposed to anyone learning logic and empathy, because they tend to breed liberalism.
You really have to work hard to receive the excellent liberal education he supposedly did and still come out the closed-minded, racist, misogynist, xenophobe he apparently is.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 2, 2022 12:33:46 GMT
He’s absolutely full of shit. Military can be great for those who want it. I’d totally support some kind of paid non-military domestic service program for young people as well. The purpose of education is not to indoctrinate you. It’s supposed to be to give you the tools to examine whatever life experiences you have through the lens of logic and empathy, with some background awareness of the history and science that might underpin those experiences. DeSantis and his people are very opposed to anyone learning logic and empathy, because they tend to breed liberalism. You really have to work hard to receive the excellent liberal education he supposedly did and still come out the closed-minded, racist, misogynist, xenophobe he apparently is. I agree with that as well. College is not for everyone, and there are many great trades that pay well. Just ask anyone who has hired a plumber or electrician! 😁 He is running. My big issue with DeSantis-aside from disagreeing with him on policy- is how petty and vindictive he is. That is a dangerous quality in a leader. |
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by DEX on Jul 2, 2022 12:50:41 GMT
And this is a man the "Redumblicans" (recovering Republican here) are touting as an alternative to our twice impeached president in 2024.🤬
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 2, 2022 12:57:55 GMT
The point about choosing paths other than college is meant to distract you from the fact that he is eliminating the things that make universities what they are. I can tell you first-hand from my own interactions with academics at public Florida universities how many have left this year or are contacting me about job possibilities at my school. Of course, from DeSantis's perspective, losing many of the best academics from Florida is a plus, not a minus, which gives him terrible incentives.
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Post by Merge on Jul 4, 2022 12:58:15 GMT
The point about choosing paths other than college is meant to distract you from the fact that he is eliminating the things that make universities what they are. I can tell you first-hand from my own interactions with academics at public Florida universities how many have left this year or are contacting me about job possibilities at my school. Of course, from DeSantis's perspective, losing many of the best academics from Florida is a plus, not a minus, which gives him terrible incentives. A high school friend/FB friend is a tenured professor at a large Florida university, and has been for over a decade. He's one of the top academics in his field. He's looking to leave the state. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jul 4, 2022 14:35:32 GMT
DeSantis is not alone in his disturbing ideas about higher education, prestigious at that, Cruz, Hawley.. let us not forget Pompeo and we paid in full for his West Point et al!!
The uneducated are more vulnerable and compliant. Far easier to manipulate.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:36:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 14:56:57 GMT
I feel like we are going backwards, with Florida taking the lead.  Texas is saying, "Take my beer". |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:36:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 15:02:13 GMT
The dumbing down of America Part 10. Why do these people insist of curating a life for citizens that's defined by their tiny little bubble? What happened to opposing government overreach? Land of the Free and the Brave? Soon it will be just called Land. Because we certainly aren't free anymore. And these uncourageous assholes that are forcing us backwards are anything but brave.
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Post by librarylady on Jul 4, 2022 15:04:01 GMT
Pundits feel that he will be the GOP nominee in 2024.  |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 4, 2022 15:13:30 GMT
Can’t stand the man. Do not agree with 99.9% of what he says. Do not agree with stop the woke or whatever the hell he wants to call it. Do not agree with discouraging/attacking higher education or undermining its importance. All that said… I do think work and military experience can provide some people with a wealth of knowledge, experience, and training that can often be equivalent to higher education for some fields and types of jobs. I think there are a lot of ways to learn. I agree. But isn't that for the employer and the industry to decide? I don't want a doctor, engineer or many other professions only learning on the job. The dismantling of all education is disturbing. |
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luckyjune
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by luckyjune on Jul 4, 2022 15:26:11 GMT
Ruling the uneducated is so much easier than trying to corral people who have been taught to look at issues from all sides, apply logic and empathy (well put, Merge), and make decisions based on the best course for as many as possible.
So, eviscerate the public K-12 school system first. Then go after the colleges and universities. Save the private educations and university slots for the children of the wealthy/powerful and shazam! We are no longer the country we thought we were.
His base listens to his babble about the evils of education. None of them say, "But you went to Harvard and Yale..."? I rest my case.
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Post by 950nancy on Jul 4, 2022 15:44:50 GMT
As of yesterday, I have recently talked to 5 people/couples who live in Florida and are so proud of that guy. They think he did a good job with the pandemic. When I ask how they felt about their state having such high Covid rates and deaths they just stare at me like they never heard that happened. Ignorance is bliss.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:36:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2022 13:36:09 GMT
Ruling the uneducated is so much easier than trying to corral people who have been taught to look at issues from all sides, apply logic and empathy (well put, Merge), and make decisions based on the best course for as many as possible. So, eviscerate the public K-12 school system first. Then go after the colleges and universities. Save the private educations and university slots for the children of the wealthy/powerful and shazam! We are no longer the country we thought we were. His base listens to his babble about the evils of education. None of them say, "But you went to Harvard and Yale..."? I rest my case. I agree with you. Here in Texas they are doing their best to demolish decent public education. (What's left of it anyway.) What's so stupid is that they aren't thinking about the future. They want a country mostly made up of ignorant and uneducated people? And turn the clock back so we live like the 19th century? Or maybe they all want to be little Putins where the citizens are so easily controlled and manipulated and they hold all the power? As a whole, this country would go down in the crapper. I just don't get it. Someone explain this madness to me. |
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 5, 2022 13:45:00 GMT
My eldest likes him. Ugh. At least ds's gf will cancel that vote out.
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Post by compeateropeator on Jul 5, 2022 14:05:02 GMT
Can’t stand the man. Do not agree with 99.9% of what he says. Do not agree with stop the woke or whatever the hell he wants to call it. Do not agree with discouraging/attacking higher education or undermining its importance. All that said… I do think work and military experience can provide some people with a wealth of knowledge, experience, and training that can often be equivalent to higher education for some fields and types of jobs. I think there are a lot of ways to learn. I agree. But isn't that for the employer and the industry to decide? I don't want a doctor, engineer or many other professions only learning on the job. The dismantling of all education is disturbing. Absolutely agree is up to the employer and as I said “some fields and types of jobs”. I was in no way implying that I was in favor of what he is proposing. I am a true believer in education and logical/critical thinking. I just do not necessarily believe that it can only be achieved through a university degree…and I agree that the dismantling of all education is disturbing. I do think, though, that higher education needs to be made somewhat affordable so that it is accessible to all who want to pursue it. It is not reasonable or sustainable to come away tens (or 100s) of thousand dollars in debt for most people. |
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Post by cme37 on Jul 5, 2022 15:35:14 GMT
He is going to kill the standings of Florida Universities. My youngest is starting at UF this fall. We went to his orientation last week and if I had a dollar for each of the times they mentioned that UF is a top 5 public university I could have a nice chuck for his tuition.
They will lose that standing if top tier professors leave the university. Kids will start looking out of state and all those out of staters that are coming to FL won't come.
For someone that was educated at Harvard and Yale, he missed the critical thinking part. He is driving things away from the state. First his war with Disney and now the universities.
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Post by Merge on Jul 5, 2022 16:13:14 GMT
He is going to kill the standings of Florida Universities. My youngest is starting at UF this fall. We went to his orientation last week and if I had a dollar for each of the times they mentioned that UF is a top 5 public university I could have a nice chuck for his tuition. They will lose that standing if top tier professors leave the university. Kids will start looking out of state and all those out of staters that are coming to FL won't come. For someone that was educated at Harvard and Yale, he missed the critical thinking part. He is driving things away from the state. First his war with Disney and now the universities. The real indoctrination is happening among right wing media and some churches, not at universities. |
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Post by cme37 on Jul 5, 2022 16:36:15 GMT
He is going to kill the standings of Florida Universities. My youngest is starting at UF this fall. We went to his orientation last week and if I had a dollar for each of the times they mentioned that UF is a top 5 public university I could have a nice chuck for his tuition. They will lose that standing if top tier professors leave the university. Kids will start looking out of state and all those out of staters that are coming to FL won't come. For someone that was educated at Harvard and Yale, he missed the critical thinking part. He is driving things away from the state. First his war with Disney and now the universities. The real indoctrination is happening among right wing media and some churches, not at universities. Oh, I know. Maybe I wasn't clear, but my point was he is going to kill our good universities with this nonsense. |
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Jul 5, 2022 16:36:41 GMT
I never equated ability to think to higher education. I know many people who never attended college who have the best common sense and can zero in on a problem and devise a solution. I also know of college-educated people who can’t even make change and have to be guided in even the most basic functions of life. As just about most things, one can't really generalize. That said, it appears to me this legislative draft is a “solution” seeking a problem. Its true purpose is to stick it to the libs.
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 5, 2022 20:01:51 GMT
He is going to kill the standings of Florida Universities. My youngest is starting at UF this fall. We went to his orientation last week and if I had a dollar for each of the times they mentioned that UF is a top 5 public university I could have a nice chuck for his tuition. They will lose that standing if top tier professors leave the university. Kids will start looking out of state and all those out of staters that are coming to FL won't come. For someone that was educated at Harvard and Yale, he missed the critical thinking part. He is driving things away from the state. First his war with Disney and now the universities. The real indoctrination is happening among right wing media and some churches, not at universities. Exactly. Classic projection, just like Trump - accuse others of what you are guilty. The Republicans have perfected it |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jul 6, 2022 2:52:49 GMT
I never equated ability to think to higher education. I know many people who never attended college who have the best common sense and can zero in on a problem and devise a solution. I also know of college-educated people who can’t even make change and have to be guided in even the most basic functions of life. As just about most things, one can't really generalize. That said, it appears to me this legislative draft is a “solution” seeking a problem. Its true purpose is to stick it to the libs. 100% all of this. |
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Post by Merge on Jul 6, 2022 3:01:14 GMT
I wouldn't say only people with higher education *can* think, but the benefit of higher education (or even certain courses in high school) should be that it forces you *to* think, to examine different points of view, to learn to support your own views (or discard them) based on evidence rather than assumptions.
So many people never examine their own views. So many people are happy just to believe what their parents always thought and whatever soundbites they hear from the media of least resistance. It's lazy thinking. It's not thinking at all. If education doesn't reduce the prevalence of intellectual laziness in this country, I really don't know what will.
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