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Post by lucyg on Jul 7, 2022 3:44:21 GMT
You had previously said that it makes no sense to tip one and not the other. I gave you a reason why it does make sense. But you do you. What they get paid has nothing to do with me. They are both providing the same service, so they deserve the same tip, none. I don’t consider their employment circumstances a reason for me to tip. A tip is for a service I am getting. OK |
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Post by chaosisapony on Jul 7, 2022 3:52:25 GMT
The act of simply bringing you a plate of food does not deserve a tip in and of itself so I would not have tipped in the situation the OP described. I live in a state where servers make the same minimum wage that everyone else does, not the super low tipped wage so I admit I get a bit eye rolly about giving tips sometimes. I don't drink alcohol so I have no idea what bar tipping etiquette is.
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,079
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 7, 2022 4:28:01 GMT
The act of simply bringing you a plate of food does not deserve a tip in and of itself so I would not have tipped in the situation the OP described. I live in a state where servers make the same minimum wage that everyone else does, not the super low tipped wage so I admit I get a bit eye rolly about giving tips sometimes. I don't drink alcohol so I have no idea what bar tipping etiquette is. Yes. I also live in a state with servers are paid at least minimum wage and ours is the highest actually of all states. I also think “why exactly are we tipping?” Since the “reason” people state for tips (low wage) doesn’t apply. |
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Post by its me mg on Jul 7, 2022 4:38:09 GMT
The act of simply bringing you a plate of food does not deserve a tip in and of itself so I would not have tipped in the situation the OP described. I live in a state where servers make the same minimum wage that everyone else does, not the super low tipped wage so I admit I get a bit eye rolly about giving tips sometimes. I don't drink alcohol so I have no idea what bar tipping etiquette is. Yes. I also live in a state with servers are paid at least minimum wage and ours is the highest actually of all states. I also think “why exactly are we tipping?” Since the “reason” people state for tips (low wage) doesn’t apply. Minimum wage is hitting $16 soon in CA. It's not enough to get by, even though we probably have one of the highest minimum wages in the country. The cost of living is astronomical and tips supplement it. This is a tough one - they made it clear there was no service, you definitely got no service, and tips are for .... well .... service. I work in the industry so I would have left something, but I don't know if it would be 20%. |
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,079
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 7, 2022 4:42:49 GMT
Yes. I also live in a state with servers are paid at least minimum wage and ours is the highest actually of all states. I also think “why exactly are we tipping?” Since the “reason” people state for tips (low wage) doesn’t apply. Minimum wage is hitting $16 soon in CA. It's not enough to get by, even though we probably have one of the highest minimum wages in the country. The cost of living is astronomical and tips supplement it. This is a tough one - they made it clear there was no service, you definitely got no service, and tips are for .... well .... service. I work in the industry so I would have left something, but I don't know if it would be 20%. I get that cost of living is high - here, too. But with that argument, do we tip everyone making minimum wage -like at target and McDonald’s? |
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Post by guzismom on Jul 7, 2022 14:55:38 GMT
I would have tipped the bartender who prepared the drinks.
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Post by alsomsknit on Jul 7, 2022 15:24:14 GMT
Having waitressed for a period of time, I tip well. There is an amazing take out place, that began as a food truck shortly before COVID hit, and the local coffee shop which are both mom & pop places. The Grille was our take out food through out COVID. Drove my husband batty with how well I would tip them.
I don’t drink, so I will defer to the others who say the bartender should have been tipped. I would have never entertained tipping for the food. You did everything but retrieve the food.
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,295 
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Post by iowgirl on Jul 7, 2022 15:45:48 GMT
I think this is something that is going to need to be addressed.
If I do all the work, sans carrying a plate to my table - is it worth 20%
If my food total was $50, is it worth $10 to only carry a plate or two to my table? I know server positions pay crap, and they use the tips to make a more decent wage - but this is nuts.
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Post by its me mg on Jul 7, 2022 17:03:49 GMT
Minimum wage is hitting $16 soon in CA. It's not enough to get by, even though we probably have one of the highest minimum wages in the country. The cost of living is astronomical and tips supplement it. This is a tough one - they made it clear there was no service, you definitely got no service, and tips are for .... well .... service. I work in the industry so I would have left something, but I don't know if it would be 20%. I get that cost of living is high - here, too. But with that argument, do we tip everyone making minimum wage -like at target and McDonald’s? No, because there is no one forced to be sharing their tip pool in those situations. A full service server has to use those tips to pay out the bartender, food runner, host/busser. It literally costs them money to serve you if you stiff them. At Starbucks or any of those little cafes that you go to the tips definitely help - that's going to go to a college kid who only works 20 hours a week while doing summer school or to a mom with a part time job looking for some extra cash ... and usually to someone whose shift is only a couple hours a day. Is it your problem to supplement someone's income? no, but that's just a societal norm. You've seen food costs rising everywhere, including going out to eat. There's no easy answer. |
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,079
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 7, 2022 17:37:01 GMT
I get that cost of living is high - here, too. But with that argument, do we tip everyone making minimum wage -like at target and McDonald’s? No, because there is no one forced to be sharing their tip pool in those situations. A full service server has to use those tips to pay out the bartender, food runner, host/busser. It literally costs them money to serve you if you stiff them. At Starbucks or any of those little cafes that you go to the tips definitely help - that's going to go to a college kid who only works 20 hours a week while doing summer school or to a mom with a part time job looking for some extra cash ... and usually to someone whose shift is only a couple hours a day. Is it your problem to supplement someone's income? no, but that's just a societal norm. You've seen food costs rising everywhere, including going out to eat. There's no easy answer. Yeah, this still doesn’t apply to the specific scenario I am discussing where servers and other staff are making at least minimum wage in my state. Any tip they have to split still leaves them with at least minimum wage + any tip which is more than Target, Starbucks, etc. which is what I was getting at. In MY state I’m trying to determine why there is a different standard? Of course what you are saying is accurate for states where servers do not get minimum wage. For the record, even though are servers get minimum wage I am not “stiffing” anyone. I do tip at restaurants - NOT Starbucks, fast food because of “expectations” I guess. Im just saying I think it doesn’t make sense in our state, especially with expectations at 20% + for tip but I do. It was more of a side conversation about states where it’s different. So with that, I’m stepping out.  |
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my3freaks
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,206
Location: NH girl living in Colorado
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Post by my3freaks on Jul 7, 2022 20:58:46 GMT
I think this is something that is going to need to be addressed. If I do all the work, sans carrying a plate to my table - is it worth 20% If my food total was $50, is it worth $10 to only carry a plate or two to my table? I know server positions pay crap, and they use the tips to make a more decent wage - but this is nuts. I don't think this instance, or instances like it necessarily warrant 20%, but I do think they warrant a tip of some kind. Fast food is different to me- even if you eat at the location, in the majority of them you order your food, pick it up at the counter, get your own drink & condiments, and clean up after yourself. If it's a location that has signs saying they will clear your table for you (I still feel rude leaving my trash on a table!), I leave a dollar or two on the table if I have cash on me. |
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my3freaks
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,206
Location: NH girl living in Colorado
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Post by my3freaks on Jul 7, 2022 21:18:48 GMT
Yeah, this still doesn’t apply to the specific scenario I am discussing where servers and other staff are making at least minimum wage in my state. Any tip they have to split still leaves them with at least minimum wage + any tip which is more than Target, Starbucks, etc. which is what I was getting at. In MY state I’m trying to determine why there is a different standard? Of course what you are saying is accurate for states where servers do not get minimum wage. A server is generally doing more for you and for a longer period of time than an employee at Target, Starbucks, etc. There are people that wait tables through college or when they have kids, because they can get flexible hours and make more money. Sometimes cash, same day. It's a tough job, and servers are often treated like servants (at best) by a lot of people. How many times have I read, just on this board about people who say the amount they tip goes down if their glass is ever empty? Like the server doesn't have multiple tables they're trying to keep track of, who are at various stages of their ordering/eating/lingering. God forbid they speak to another server/busser/employee. There's another reason to dock their tip. They could be passing on a request to them from one of their tables, asking them to bring water/coffee/whatever around because they're so busy, or any number of work related things . People don't know for sure, but they automatically assume they're lazy and gossiping. It's great that there are states paying servers minimum wage. I don't think that means tipping is not required at all though in sit down restaurants. |
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Jul 7, 2022 21:30:06 GMT
I think this is something that is going to need to be addressed. If I do all the work, sans carrying a plate to my table - is it worth 20% If my food total was $50, is it worth $10 to only carry a plate or two to my table? I know server positions pay crap, and they use the tips to make a more decent wage - but this is nuts. I don't think this instance, or instances like it necessarily warrant 20%, but I do think they warrant a tip of some kind. Fast food is different to me- even if you eat at the location, in the majority of them you order your food, pick it up at the counter, get your own drink & condiments, and clean up after yourself. If it's a location that has signs saying they will clear your table for you (I still feel rude leaving my trash on a table!), I leave a dollar or two on the table if I have cash on me. At our Culver's we place our order with an actual person. We get our own drinks and condiments. They bring our food to us. If staff are in the dining room and wiping tables they have asked if they could take our garbage if we were done. So at Culver's I feel they actually did more than this winery. If servers are expecting a tip then I better get some actual service. Walking my food out to me, does not count as serving me. As for the bartenders, it is really not that hard to get a tap beer. If it was a mixed drink/cocktail I would understand, but a tap beer or glass of wine is really pretty easy. I was a server for many years when the standard tip was 10%, when did 20-25% become the norm? Normally people threw down $1 or $2 dollars no matter what their bill was. Tipping based on the price of the meal makes no sense to me. Just because you charge more for a burger does not mean I am getting better service. Also, we often go to Applebee's for 1/2 price apps. If we get water our bill is around $15. Our server did not work less then if we had ordered 2 actual meals, but if we go by the amount on the bill her tip would be much less. She did not work less, so we often base our tip on what an actual meal would be. As someone said earlier, tipping in the US has gotten completely out of hand. As actual wages go up and actual less service, tipping will change. I don't think some servers are going to really like this because they could actually make less money. Stepping off my soap box now. |
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Post by Merge on Jul 7, 2022 21:46:39 GMT
I almost always tip if there’s an option to do so. Even if I feel like they didn’t do much to earn it. Most everyone is struggling right now, and a few extra bucks one way or the other doesn’t hurt me. I’d rather eat out/order in less often so I can afford to tip without reservation when I do go out. That just feels right to me.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 7, 2022 22:03:24 GMT
I don't think this instance, or instances like it necessarily warrant 20%, but I do think they warrant a tip of some kind. Fast food is different to me- even if you eat at the location, in the majority of them you order your food, pick it up at the counter, get your own drink & condiments, and clean up after yourself. If it's a location that has signs saying they will clear your table for you (I still feel rude leaving my trash on a table!), I leave a dollar or two on the table if I have cash on me. At our Culver's we place our order with an actual person. We get our own drinks and condiments. They bring our food to us. If staff are in the dining room and wiping tables they have asked if they could take our garbage if we were done. So at Culver's I feel they actually did more than this winery. If servers are expecting a tip then I better get some actual service. Walking my food out to me, does not count as serving me. As for the bartenders, it is really not that hard to get a tap beer. If it was a mixed drink/cocktail I would understand, but a tap beer or glass of wine is really pretty easy. I was a server for many years when the standard tip was 10%, when did 20-25% become the norm? Normally people threw down $1 or $2 dollars no matter what their bill was. Tipping based on the price of the meal makes no sense to me. Just because you charge more for a burger does not mean I am getting better service. Also, we often go to Applebee's for 1/2 price apps. If we get water our bill is around $15. Our server did not work less then if we had ordered 2 actual meals, but if we go by the amount on the bill her tip would be much less. She did not work less, so we often base our tip on what an actual meal would be. As someone said earlier, tipping in the US has gotten completely out of hand. As actual wages go up and actual less service, tipping will change. I don't think some servers are going to really like this because they could actually make less money. Stepping off my soap box now. Honest question, why did you even ask the peas? Obviously you went into this with your mind made up. The bottom line is, if you don’t want to tip in this situation, you don’t have to. But you asked the peas, and now you’re telling us why we’re wrong. Also: I started waitressing in college at 19. I am quite a bit older than you. The standard was 15% back then. |
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Post by chaosisapony on Jul 8, 2022 1:23:59 GMT
Minimum wage is hitting $16 soon in CA. It's not enough to get by, even though we probably have one of the highest minimum wages in the country. The cost of living is astronomical and tips supplement it. This is a tough one - they made it clear there was no service, you definitely got no service, and tips are for .... well .... service. I work in the industry so I would have left something, but I don't know if it would be 20%. I get that cost of living is high - here, too. But with that argument, do we tip everyone making minimum wage -like at target and McDonald’s? That's my issue. I have lived in California for my entire life and had plenty of minimum wage jobs. They've never been enough to get by on, it's minimum wage not a living wage. If simply making minimum wage means they get tips then we're going to be tipping all retail and fast food workers too. |
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my3freaks
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,206
Location: NH girl living in Colorado
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Post by my3freaks on Jul 8, 2022 4:16:42 GMT
it's minimum wage not a living wage. It's unfortunate because the minimum wage was intended to be the minimum amount needed to live on. It's too bad that our government hasn't raised it over the years to keep up with the cost of living. |
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Post by its me mg on Jul 8, 2022 6:31:30 GMT
No, because there is no one forced to be sharing their tip pool in those situations. A full service server has to use those tips to pay out the bartender, food runner, host/busser. It literally costs them money to serve you if you stiff them. At Starbucks or any of those little cafes that you go to the tips definitely help - that's going to go to a college kid who only works 20 hours a week while doing summer school or to a mom with a part time job looking for some extra cash ... and usually to someone whose shift is only a couple hours a day. Is it your problem to supplement someone's income? no, but that's just a societal norm. You've seen food costs rising everywhere, including going out to eat. There's no easy answer. Yeah, this still doesn’t apply to the specific scenario I am discussing where servers and other staff are making at least minimum wage in my state. Any tip they have to split still leaves them with at least minimum wage + any tip which is more than Target, Starbucks, etc. which is what I was getting at. In MY state I’m trying to determine why there is a different standard? Of course what you are saying is accurate for states where servers do not get minimum wage. For the record, even though are servers get minimum wage I am not “stiffing” anyone. I do tip at restaurants - NOT Starbucks, fast food because of “expectations” I guess. Im just saying I think it doesn’t make sense in our state, especially with expectations at 20% + for tip but I do. It was more of a side conversation about states where it’s different. So with that, I’m stepping out.  I didn't mean to imply you were stiffing anyone - I was speaking as the general "you". My bad! But if someone chooses to not tip a full service waiter they really do end up in the hole because the food runners still did their job and so did the bartender and their tips outs are determined based off sales. Doesn't sound like this was the case at the winery simply because they were very clear they didn't want to serve you (but seemingly expected money for non-service). I can see why you thought I was accusing you of that, my apologies. Even in a state with minimum being high, those tips earned are declared at the end of every shift (in both full service and quick service counter places) - and the taxes are taken from the hourly wage. If a server is accurately declaring tips, then the $$$ to put towards those taxes come out of those checks. When I was a waitress working full time (no other job whatsoever) and I was declaring my tips, my net check for 2 weeks pay was what I would earn in tips on a Friday night alone. It was definitely not a huge fat check supplementing all sorts of untraceable cash. I wish! These days 99% of transactions feel like they're done via CC. CC tips are easily tracked with reporting and employers have reporting thresholds and make sure their team is adequately declaring tips. If Uncle Sam suspects you're not being 100% honest with him and didn't declare enough then you get an audit and they "allocate your tips" for you aka guestimate what they THINK you made and then they tax you accordingly. It's not fun! |
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,295
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Post by iowgirl on Jul 8, 2022 12:30:23 GMT
I don't think this instance, or instances like it necessarily warrant 20%, but I do think they warrant a tip of some kind. I agree that some tip is warranted. But even the usual minimum of 15% seems high - and those are the options on the automatic. OP said it was 18%,20%, 25%. I am assuming you can enter your own amount - or as OP did, just leave a cash tip. It's a tough job, and servers are often treated like servants (at best) by a lot of people. Ummm... 'server's treated as servants" That's kind of their job!  But I think I get where you are coming from. They shouldn't be treated poorly as servants. I can realize when someone serving me is just slammed. It is beyond their control. At our Culver's we place our order with an actual person. We get our own drinks and condiments. They bring our food to us. If staff are in the dining room and wiping tables they have asked if they could take our garbage if we were done. Culvers. That's a whole different ballgame. Even the drive through workers are amazingly nice! They really train their employees well. I hope they have a higher pay scale than most fast food, because they really step up the game! |
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Jul 8, 2022 12:41:58 GMT
At our Culver's we place our order with an actual person. We get our own drinks and condiments. They bring our food to us. If staff are in the dining room and wiping tables they have asked if they could take our garbage if we were done. So at Culver's I feel they actually did more than this winery. If servers are expecting a tip then I better get some actual service. Walking my food out to me, does not count as serving me. As for the bartenders, it is really not that hard to get a tap beer. If it was a mixed drink/cocktail I would understand, but a tap beer or glass of wine is really pretty easy. I was a server for many years when the standard tip was 10%, when did 20-25% become the norm? Normally people threw down $1 or $2 dollars no matter what their bill was. Tipping based on the price of the meal makes no sense to me. Just because you charge more for a burger does not mean I am getting better service. Also, we often go to Applebee's for 1/2 price apps. If we get water our bill is around $15. Our server did not work less then if we had ordered 2 actual meals, but if we go by the amount on the bill her tip would be much less. She did not work less, so we often base our tip on what an actual meal would be. As someone said earlier, tipping in the US has gotten completely out of hand. As actual wages go up and actual less service, tipping will change. I don't think some servers are going to really like this because they could actually make less money. Stepping off my soap box now. Honest question, why did you even ask the peas? Obviously you went into this with your mind made up. The bottom line is, if you don’t want to tip in this situation, you don’t have to. But you asked the peas, and now you’re telling us why we’re wrong. Also: I started waitressing in college at 19. I am quite a bit older than you. The standard was 15% back then. Why did I ask the peas, because they are a great group of people with multiple perspectives that allow me to see a situation like this from many views. It seems even the peas are kind of all over the place with this one. I certainly did not feel right now tipping, but it juts seemed odd because there was so little service for us. Also, not sure how old you think I am, but I think we are pretty close in age. Also, coming from a small town (hence my name) we may have been a little behind on what tipping should be. As I said, a $30 tab would often get me maybe $2-$3, so maybe 10%. An 80 cent cup of coffee was the best. They would drop a $1, so that was a full on 20% tip. I waitressed either where the farmers hung out, or the drunks came after the bar, so never knew what I was going to get. |
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But I think I get where you are coming from. They shouldn't be treated poorly as servants. I can realize when someone serving me is just slammed. It is beyond their control.