moodyblue
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,381
Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Dec 4, 2014 1:09:35 GMT
kinda like the word 'but' negates everything that came before it i can see that and ...if i may be a bit 'erudite' the Rainbow Connection - by Kermit. Same thing. Who have thunk? gina Yes, that's exactly it. If you leave out the "but" your first part isn't immediately negated.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Dec 4, 2014 1:34:47 GMT
thank you all for taking the time to comment i have done some introspection today and maybe i am a bit 'pedantic' - i do find most things intriguing and assume others do too
but maybe some people just like the shallow end of the pool more!
i can see where it might come off as - too much
i'll try to keep a lid on it more often...and Shanni - i'd probably have awesome conversations with your husband! gina This is similar to something my friend has said in the past. She made a comment about not all people wanting to learn. This is where people pick up on the attitude. I just took a two day dog training seminar that is 2-3 years above where me and my 4 month old puppy are. I love to learn, but I like to be able to choose when I do my learning. Maybe I just want to have a casual conversation with a friend. Maybe I’m not in the mood for them to force their knowledge of all things down my throat. I might just be in the mood for some light hearted conversation as a way of relaxing after all the other demands on my time. So although I've gone to many trainings, classes and seminars of my own free will. Just because I might want a casual non-learning conversation to unwind, I like the shallow end of the pool. Interesting.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Dec 4, 2014 3:52:52 GMT
oh =- please don't make that more than it was
someone upthread commented that some people like their conversation more shallow
that's all
gina
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Post by moveablefeast on Dec 4, 2014 4:54:52 GMT
I wonder if one problem with the statement isn't that it doesn't quite explain what an appogiatura is and why it has an effect on the listener. If you're reading that and you feel like you can't respond because you don't know what someone is saying or why - it sometimes comes out as irritation or offense.
But if you say, gosh that is lovely - the music nerd in me can't help but hear the emotional effect of the appogiatura supporting the emotional intent of the song - do you hear in this lyric where there's that subtle tension and resolution of the note? That's an appogiatura and research shows that it actually has an effect on the brain. Isn't it cool how music affects us? Check it out, here's a link. - if you say that, then you're saying something a person can actually kind of process and understand.
I have this nasty tendency to be kind of a knowitall and I have to watch when I am saying something a little esoteric like that. Because the music nerd in me loves words like appogiatura. But if I'm not careful I sound like I just want to throw out the big word I know.
Or in this case, you come across as wanting to show how it's not the content of the song that affected them, but it was some little musical trick, a little auditory sleight of hand, and it's just all psychological. Which I can see how a person would feel it comes across as dismissive.
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Loydene
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,639
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Jul 8, 2014 16:31:47 GMT
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Post by Loydene on Dec 4, 2014 4:56:14 GMT
I think the issue is much more basic --- your friend was making a religious statement. You thought she was making a musical statement and so educated. She was pissed because you diluted her spirituality with base knowledge.
I'm like Sister BBQ -- leave that song alone ... it is fabulous just as it was written!!
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Post by scrapmaven on Dec 4, 2014 4:58:55 GMT
Were it my post I would have thought that you were trying to engage in a discussion about the music and I would have found it interesting and would want others to join our discussion. I don't understand why your friend was so snappy. I'm on your side here.
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Post by Sukkii on Dec 4, 2014 8:46:37 GMT
Depending on my mood I could have taken it as an interesting point of discussion or an irritation from a know it all. That said, had it irritated me I would have not responded, had I been interested I might have discussed it further. Could it be that your friend just had one of these days when she couldn't be bothered discussing a song that gave her the warm, fuzzy feeling or could it be that you often try to educate others? I have a friend who is a know it all and for the most part I find her interesting and we have great discussions BUT sometimes she annoys me no end. The times she annoys is when she is only semi-knowledgeable on a subject that I know more about than her.... she blusters and twists and turns and eventually says what I originally said, claiming that is what she meant all along. Gah!! I had to laugh at the Pea who's husband is into U2. My husband is like that with The Joshua Tree. He would analayise to death and I would have to tell him to STFU and let me enjoy the music  He is also a huge Queen fan, as am I, but when we first met his constant yapping about what the song meant almost had me running for the hills..... 38 years later I'm glad I stayed put. I don't always want to be 'educated' especially on Facebook and the more I think of what you wrote, makes me think that maybe you were being a bit of a know it all. I mean no offence with this, I have a 20 year old son who is one. It makes him who he is but I often have to 'slap' him back into normality  ETA: I don't think you should just nod your head and smile though, you are who you are, embrace that BUT be prepared for not everyone to like it. Not everyone likes everything anyway so yeah be who you are. 
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Post by lesserknownpea on Dec 4, 2014 11:56:44 GMT
I would have found your comment educational and enjoyed it. What you wrote was helpful and positive. What the person responded with was rude and negative.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Dec 4, 2014 13:39:59 GMT
From one pedant to another: I had to look up appoggiaturas (apparently, they're more than just grace notes), and promptly slipped down the internet rabbit hole. Seems there was an "appoggiatura imbroglio" a couple years back. The Wall Street Journal and NPR both did stories explaining research that attempts to examine why songs like Adele's "Someone Like You" elicit tears and chills. In response, there's a spate of internet rebuttals from music nerds < term used lovingly> refuting the idea of a musical magic bullet for emotional response. An example: Nerdly link
So, no, your response was not inappropriate. I'm guessing I'm not the only reader who learned something because of it. But now I'm going to be late for work, so I'm blaming you for that, instead.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Dec 4, 2014 14:06:57 GMT
I don't understand why she got snippy, nor why people are not more open to learning new facts. I learned something new and I think that's amazing. It seems like so many people just shut down when people mention something beyond "ooooh look pretty". It's frustrating when you're a person who loves to learn and loves to hear and share interesting little factoids. It seriously bums me out when people think I'm pedantic because I want to share some interesting little factoid about whatever is happening at the moment. Thus my constant question, why aren't people more curious.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Dec 4, 2014 14:24:22 GMT
I say it's all in the presentation and knowing your audience. if you always get called out for being a know-it-all then you need to look at yourself and not just assume everyone around you is shallow and unwilling to learn something new.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Dec 4, 2014 14:38:59 GMT
that is exactly where I learned of this phenom...I read a NPR piece which led to the WSJ piece...which wasted another hour of my time....figuring it all out and listening to examples.
I've never been called a 'know it all' or any of the other derogatory words associated with that.
If people are annoyed they do a good job of hiding it
but I will pay more attention to my behavior around those that might feel - put off by it
but really - is my love of learning and sharing any worse then those who get pissy about people who share?
it seems that many of you are basically telling me that who I am - is annoying to people -
well -it's equally annoying to know that so many people just aren't interested in delving deeper into subjects
maybe it's a matter of finding more people like myself ... to be surrounded by
I am not going to apologize for who I am - but I will make an effort to read social cues and shut up when eyes start glazing over!
gina
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Dec 4, 2014 14:46:14 GMT
Gina,
Your last post rings so true for me. I absolutely agree, though I still think it's sad that someone would have to reign themselves in because others aren't interested in learning (and not in a lecture way) something new.
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julieb
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 3, 2014 16:02:54 GMT
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Post by julieb on Dec 4, 2014 14:52:54 GMT
"appoggiatures"
I learned a new word today. Thank you.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Dec 4, 2014 14:54:40 GMT
thank you Grinning Cat
I know I asked...but it's hard to hear that my behavior, which I thought was helpful and informative, is off putting
sometimes, a reality check can knock a person off-kilter
gina
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Post by lesleyanne on Dec 4, 2014 14:56:58 GMT
Thank you Gina. Regardless of the facebook thread, you have added to my vocabulary and got me lost in the interwebs finding out more. I truly appreciate it  Love me some pedantic trivia on subjects I don't know very well!
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Dec 4, 2014 15:08:35 GMT
I think it has far more to do with her and her possible insecurities than you being a know it all.
I am not able to put my thoughts into words as well as I would like. While I might say "this song is pretty" I mean so much more and I feel like a simpleton when someone "corrects" me and expands on my thought more eloquently than I ever could. It's my deal, because I wish I could articulate my thoughts better. I don't always have that reaction, but if I were having a bad day I could see myself being a little sensitive over your comment.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Dec 4, 2014 15:15:47 GMT
thank you Grinning Cat I know I asked...but it's hard to hear that my behavior, which I thought was helpful and informative, is off putting sometimes, a reality check can knock a person off-kilter gina I totally understand. And I'm sorry. It sucks. I've always thought you were cool... if that means anything
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Just T
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,145
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Dec 4, 2014 15:21:39 GMT
Though I don't really "know" you, I don't find you annoying at all. Overall, I think the message you wrote in response was very interesting and enlightening. I too learned a new word! I don't think you came off sounding like a "know it all" either.
I do agree with what a few others said that sometimes, when something is said followed by "but," that it can be offputting. It sounds stupid, and it is probably due to my own experiences with my mother, but she does that ALL. THE. TIME. And, it seriously drives me crazy. It feels like the "but" negates what came before, like what follows the "but" is more important if that makes sense. So, she may have felt that you were trying to "one up" her. I'm probably not saying what I mean very well.
That all said, I truly do not find you annoying at all. I rather enjoy your posts here, in fact.
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Post by apeacalledliz on Dec 4, 2014 15:27:34 GMT
that is exactly where I learned of this phenom...I read a NPR piece which led to the WSJ piece...which wasted another hour of my time....figuring it all out and listening to examples.
I've never been called a 'know it all' or any of the other derogatory words associated with that.
If people are annoyed they do a good job of hiding it
but I will pay more attention to my behavior around those that might feel - put off by it
but really - is my love of learning and sharing any worse then those who get pissy about people who share?
it seems that many of you are basically telling me that who I am - is annoying to people -
well -it's equally annoying to know that so many people just aren't interested in delving deeper into subjects
maybe it's a matter of finding more people like myself ... to be surrounded by
I am not going to apologize for who I am - but I will make an effort to read social cues and shut up when eyes start glazing over!
gina
I think that it isn't so much what you say but how you say it. I can come off as a know-it-all and I really have to watch how I phrase things so that I don't sound like a raging bitch. When you present that info like you did, it seems very blunt and "end of story" like. Its as if you are looking down on those who didn't know and patting them on the head "poor naive little peons who let themselves be manipulated by music". I KNOW that wasn't your intent but it can be read that way, especially since the post was clearly just a "oooh look pretty shiny!" post not a philosophical post about the music itself. I think if you had said, "Oh I love that song did you know that there are these things called appoggiaturas that are used in this song and here is why they make you feel that way.........." you might have not had the reaction you had. Right here in this thread you have used wording again that you didn't intend to come off as bitchy or looking down on people, "but maybe some people just like the shallow end of the pool more!" It comes off pretty holier than thou, like oh I guess some people just like wallowing in their own ignorance. There are ways to say that without sounds so judgmental, maybe "I guess sometimes people just want to appreciate stuff without delving too deep", that allows for those people to also be deep thinkers and learners at other times and it leaves out the "shallow" bit altogether which is pretty negative . And now I get to come off as the know it all! LOL
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Dec 4, 2014 15:31:37 GMT
i see what you are saying
and thank you for pointing it out so nicely
and for those of you that 'get me' - i sure do appreciate all of you
gina
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Post by marmargirl on Dec 4, 2014 15:40:06 GMT
I never knew there was a word for this phenomenon (is that the right word?) but there are definitely songs that hit me, and out of nowhere I am in tears or completely numb from the overwhelming feelings they bring up. There are certain versions of 'O Holy Night' that get me sobbing and others that do nothing. They all have the same message/lyrics so it must be something else causing me to get so emotional. I, for one, thank you for introducing this theory to me. 
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Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 4, 2014 15:40:34 GMT
thank you Grinning Cat I know I asked...but it's hard to hear that my behavior, which I thought was helpful and informative, is off putting sometimes, a reality check can knock a person off-kilter gina But again, I think you have to realize that one flawed interaction does not mean you need a wholesale change in your behavior. It may be that even this friend 99% of the time enjoys your helpful and informative information - but THIS post rubbed her the wrong way - maybe as someone above mentioned because she was feeling religious and felt you were being dismissive, maybe because she hadn't had her morning coffee, maybe because she was just in a bad mood. Every interaction isn't going to go perfectly - and that's okay. I mentioned previously that I've worked on not being pedantic - that's not the same as not sharing information or interesting facts - I still do that. It's trying to see when your information is being perceived as ostentatious and not in keeping with the discussion. I had a HORRIBLE habit of always believing that my knowledge was so freaking awesome everyone wanted to hear it. I had a great friend in my 20s that helped give me some perspective. One day we were chatting, and I went off on one of my tangents and she looked at me and said, "who the hell cares?" It was blunt, it hurt, but damn it was so true. It was the wakeup call that I needed that human interactions require more than sharing knowledge - which is frankly kind of how I saw the world. She was the same one who bluntly told me that when I corrected her she felt like an idiot. It really opened my eyes to how I was interacting with others. Now this doesn't mean that we only discuss "shallow" topics - we've had some wonderful discussions - and we disagree about a lot of topics, but are still really good friends. It's just about making sure I'm not using a discussion to "puff" myself up. But am genuinely interested in EXCHANGING ideas and LISTENING.
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Post by shanni on Dec 4, 2014 15:59:19 GMT
but really - is my love of learning and sharing any worse then those who get pissy about people who share?
it seems that many of you are basically telling me that who I am - is annoying to people -
well -it's equally annoying to know that so many people just aren't interested in delving deeper into subjects
maybe it's a matter of finding more people like myself ... to be surrounded by
I am not going to apologize for who I am - but I will make an effort to read social cues and shut up when eyes start glazing over!
gina
Aw, I hope my post didn't make you feel this way! Like I said, I married someone who loves to analyze things, so I must not find it all bad!  I completely hear you about it being annoying to you that some people don't want to delve deeper. As I teach my children, social relationships are all about give and take. Sometimes I talk to friends about things that I couldn't care less about, but it is something interesting/important to them, so we discuss it and I am engaged and polite. I'm sure there are many times that my friends do the same for me. That's just part of polite social behavior. I think your friend was rude, rude, rude to say what she did. She should have just rolled with it. I don't think that most people here are trying to say that you are annoying, I think they are just trying to help you see it from the side of your friend and why she may have been put off by the comment. It sounds like this isn't a frequent occurrence for you though, so I would probably just chalk it up to she was having a bad day and move on. Don't try to overthink it or change who you are because of one random comment. If they are your friends, they must enjoy your company, right?
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Post by BeckyTech on Dec 4, 2014 16:10:22 GMT
Gina, I'm really glad you posted this. Not only can you add me to the list of people who have learned a new word (haven't had time to delve into it more and really "grok" it yet, but thanks to those who provided links), but I've learned a bit more about Gina.
At any rate, your normal posting style is so short and abrupt; this discussion and your posts and been the most words I think I've ever seen come from you. There's a lot more to Gina than I ever knew! By the time I got to your comment about "the shallow end of the pool" I laughed and didn't take it as "bitchy or looking down on people" at all. As a matter of fact, I thought "what a great way to phrase it!"
I tend to struggle with being too wordy in my effort to convey a conversational tone, but in your case a few more words might have conveyed your interesting factoid without coming across as pedantic. So I'd encourage you not to just nod your head and smile, but continue to add to the discussion. Remember that people can't read your tone on the Internet and adding a few more words here and there can really help to convey your point in the manner in which you mean to come across.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Dec 4, 2014 17:59:49 GMT
that is exactly where I learned of this phenom...I read a NPR piece which led to the WSJ piece...which wasted another hour of my time....figuring it all out and listening to examples.
I've never been called a 'know it all' or any of the other derogatory words associated with that.
If people are annoyed they do a good job of hiding it
but I will pay more attention to my behavior around those that might feel - put off by it
but really - is my love of learning and sharing any worse then those who get pissy about people who share?
it seems that many of you are basically telling me that who I am - is annoying to people -
well -it's equally annoying to know that so many people just aren't interested in delving deeper into subjects
maybe it's a matter of finding more people like myself ... to be surrounded by
I am not going to apologize for who I am - but I will make an effort to read social cues and shut up when eyes start glazing over!
gina
I think that it isn't so much what you say but how you say it. I can come off as a know-it-all and I really have to watch how I phrase things so that I don't sound like a raging bitch. When you present that info like you did, it seems very blunt and "end of story" like. Its as if you are looking down on those who didn't know and patting them on the head "poor naive little peons who let themselves be manipulated by music". I KNOW that wasn't your intent but it can be read that way, especially since the post was clearly just a "oooh look pretty shiny!" post not a philosophical post about the music itself. I think if you had said, "Oh I love that song did you know that there are these things called appoggiaturas that are used in this song and here is why they make you feel that way.........." you might have not had the reaction you had. Right here in this thread you have used wording again that you didn't intend to come off as bitchy or looking down on people, "but maybe some people just like the shallow end of the pool more!" It comes off pretty holier than thou, like oh I guess some people just like wallowing in their own ignorance. There are ways to say that without sounds so judgmental, maybe "I guess sometimes people just want to appreciate stuff without delving too deep", that allows for those people to also be deep thinkers and learners at other times and it leaves out the "shallow" bit altogether which is pretty negative . And now I get to come off as the know it all! LOL You are not coming off as a know it all apeacalledliz - you have been very thoughtful and clear in what you've said. Thank you for expressing it so well  Delivery of info and knowledge is so often overlooked, not by you, by others.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Dec 4, 2014 18:47:59 GMT
so to add to my previous comment...the fact that you find interest in things and feel compelled to research further is not a negative. however, the need to instruct others is a delicate balance. they aren't necessarily shallow but perhaps interested in other things. you risk coming off making others feel insulted/stupid as you attempt to school them with your knowledge.
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