QueenoftheSloths
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Member Since January 2004, 2,698 forum posts PeaNut Number: 122614 PeaBoard Title: StuckOnPeas
Posts: 5,955 
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Aug 19, 2022 18:17:41 GMT
I agree with you. That is what a work ethic is. Work life balance goes both ways. Work time is work time, life time is life time. If you're buying a machine to jiggle your mouse to make it look like you are at your desk working from home, you are a cheat. these statements all sound to me like, 'when you're at work, you should be working' aka '8 hours of uninterrupted work' ...whether that is your work, helping someone else with their work, finding busywork, etc. Not agreeing with those sentiments doesn't makes me a slacker- not every job can be like that, and not every employer is appreciative of it even if you did do it. How about if I phrase it like this: if you are being paid for 8 hours of work, you should be working for 8 hours. Just like when you go to the store and buy something, you deserve to get what you bought. If your employer is paying for 8 hours of work, don't they deserve to get what they have paid for also? |
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Post by Linda on Aug 19, 2022 18:18:29 GMT
I have been out of the workforce for over 20 years and have never held a 'career' type job so keep that in mind while reading, lol.
I think there is a difference between slacking/coasting and doing the job you were hired for and ONLY that job.
If you are hired to work 40 hrs/week - then it's not slacking to work 40 hrs/wk and leave work at the office rather than bring it home. If the job is such that it takes more than 40 hrs to complete - then the job description needs reviewing and/or you need a new coworker to cover some of the work. There should never be an expectation of doing unpaid work (hourly employees are required to be paid if working) after hours or at home etc...
If you were hired to work 40 hrs a week and you surf the internet, play solitaire, chat with co-workers, text friends/family instead of doing your assigned work - then that's slacking (exception being stuff like jobs where work is feast or famine and it's acceptable to do those things during the famine times) because the work isn't getting done or someone else is having to do it for you.
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on Aug 19, 2022 18:34:28 GMT
I don't think "quiet quitting" is something new.
I think it's been that way for many centuries.
There have always been those who do and those who don't....and everything in-between.
In every situation,> workplace, clubs, extracurricular activities, neighborhood-community, School, Social get togethers, within the confines of friends and family, Moms, etc....
Some go above and beyond, some do the basic minimum >> only what is required.
There are many who act like they "do", when in fact they really don't do...but always seem to try to take the accolades and praise for doing, when in fact all they have done is work hard at looking like they are doing something when if fact they've accomplished nothing.
Every workplace has these type of people. Every group or club has these type of people. Every School situation (1-2-3 of the Moms organize everything and the rest do nothing).
I think "quiet quitting" has become a "trending now" thing, even though in my opinion it's always been a thing.
It's currently in the news and on social media, because someone labelled it.....and bandwagon jumpers are always going jump on the "trending now" bandwagon.
But in reality, it always been >> those that do and those that don't.......and everything in-between.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 19, 2022 19:31:50 GMT
My POV as a salaried employee managing other salaried employees: Working hard for 40 hours - Good Not working hard for 40 hours - Not Good Being inflexible and refusing to ever work more than 40 hours when needed periodically - Not Good Working 40+ hours consistently - Not good if not by choice, without reward, or causing stress or burnout This. You nailed it. ETA: you nailed my feelings on it. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 19, 2022 19:55:41 GMT
these statements all sound to me like, 'when you're at work, you should be working' aka '8 hours of uninterrupted work' ...whether that is your work, helping someone else with their work, finding busywork, etc. Not agreeing with those sentiments doesn't makes me a slacker- not every job can be like that, and not every employer is appreciative of it even if you did do it. How about if I phrase it like this: if you are being paid for 8 hours of work, you should be working for 8 hours. Just like when you go to the store and buy something, you deserve to get what you bought. If your employer is paying for 8 hours of work, don't they deserve to get what they have paid for also? I agree with the sentiment that if you are paying for full time work, someone should be producing full time work. But some jobs are not always as quantifiable as others. And many jobs you can't quantify productivity either. In a factory you may have to make 20 widgets an hour. Easily quantifiable. In an information based job, you don't always shut down your brain to switch your load of laundry. My old boss told me on my very first day at my last job that he did some of his most brilliant thinking while he was washing his hair. He was bald! But the point still stands. I worked on a spend plan on Monday. I could not figure out how in one line costs went up from $9000 in June to $40000 in July. It was something I noted at the back of my brain. This morning while I was in the shower I was thinking about this again. And I was able to posit that there had to be a cost shift and I had to figure out places where the costs had shifted from. And then I came up with three other places that I expected to see the difference. And then when I sat down to work, I looked in those three places and I found the explanation I was looking for. It took me between Monday and this morning to figure out the answer. And really I figured it out while getting prepared for my day. I wasn't technically on the clock. But my employer had my brain working on work. 8 hours just isn't that simple. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 19, 2022 20:06:00 GMT
austnscrapaddict said: I'm not the generation that this relates to since my next step up the ladder will be retirement in a few years. But, I come from the " you do what you have to do " generation. I currently work a salary job and there are weeks, especially 3rd and 4th quarter, that I'll work upwards of 80 hours a week. But in Q1 and Q2 I have probably stay around 40 hours. I have 32 clients and I have to do what it takes to keep their benefits in order. That said, I have 2 coordinators( assistants) and numerous other departments doing their piece of the puzzle too. An interesting fact is that our team of 16 Account Exec's median age is 50 ish. the younger ( 20 and 30's) just don't have the dedication to make it on our team. If working 80 hours a week is what is required to do your job at times, it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people might neither want to or be able to do so. That's exactly what we are talking about. If during a busy season, I need to work an extra 5 or 8 hours, that's one thing but 80 hours is just not even in my wheelhouse and I don't think that not wanting to work those hours makes anyone lacking in dedication.
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Post by busy on Aug 19, 2022 20:14:11 GMT
I think it would better to either change careers or find a new job than slack. I don't think not wanting to put in a ton of extra hours is "slacking." If someone is fulfilling their job duties well but not going above and beyond, that should be enough. Not everyone needs to be ambitious and constantly striving to advance. There will always people who do want to advance and push hard, but it's messed up that our culture thinks that should be everyone. It's not that way in many other countries. |
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kate
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Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Aug 19, 2022 20:18:00 GMT
There was no longer any loyalty to keeping people employed and those with career ambitions were more successful if they moved out of that company. It used to be that people could rely on one job for many years, and even for their entire career, and the reward was a decent life. These were my first thoughts. My dad worked at the same company for his whole career - back in the day, you could move up the ladder, you worked hard so the company would do well, and you got a pension at the end. Now, companies have zero loyalty to employees, and vice versa. Being slaray was a drag at times because I did take my work home many a times, but I could also take an afternoon off and not be docked for those hours. YES! To me, this is appropriate for a salaried worker. My POV as a salaried employee managing other salaried employees: Working hard for 40 hours - Good Not working hard for 40 hours - Not Good Being inflexible and refusing to ever work more than 40 hours when needed periodically - Not Good That's fine if the flexibility goes both ways. I definitely put in more hours during certain times of year, and I don't complain about it (except to DH  ). In return, my employer doesn't complain about my chatting with coworkers when things are slow. If my employer looked askance at the chatting as "Not working hard for 40 hours", then I would equally look askance at extra work hours during busy seasons! |
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QueenoftheSloths
Drama Llama
Member Since January 2004, 2,698 forum posts PeaNut Number: 122614 PeaBoard Title: StuckOnPeas
Posts: 5,955
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Aug 19, 2022 20:18:25 GMT
How about if I phrase it like this: if you are being paid for 8 hours of work, you should be working for 8 hours. Just like when you go to the store and buy something, you deserve to get what you bought. If your employer is paying for 8 hours of work, don't they deserve to get what they have paid for also? I agree with the sentiment that if you are paying for full time work, someone should be producing full time work. But some jobs are not always as quantifiable as others. And many jobs you can't quantify productivity either. In a factory you may have to make 20 widgets an hour. Easily quantifiable. In an information based job, you don't always shut down your brain to switch your load of laundry. My old boss told me on my very first day at my last job that he did some of his most brilliant thinking while he was washing his hair. He was bald! But the point still stands. I worked on a spend plan on Monday. I could not figure out how in one line costs went up from $9000 in June to $40000 in July. It was something I noted at the back of my brain. This morning while I was in the shower I was thinking about this again. And I was able to posit that there had to be a cost shift and I had to figure out places where the costs had shifted from. And then I came up with three other places that I expected to see the difference. And then when I sat down to work, I looked in those three places and I found the explanation I was looking for. It took me between Monday and this morning to figure out the answer. And really I figured it out while getting prepared for my day. I wasn't technically on the clock. But my employer had my brain working on work. 8 hours just isn't that simple. I never intended for any of my statements on this or any other thread to be all encompassing statements that covered all situations. I made a simple statement (agreeing with others on this thread) and now I am no longer interested enough to continue this discussion. I am a simple person with a simple job where I perform work and am paid for the time I spend performing that work. |
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Post by busy on Aug 19, 2022 20:21:09 GMT
An interesting fact is that our team of 16 Account Exec's median age is 50 ish. the younger ( 20 and 30's) just don't have the dedication to make it on our team. Or... your team's definition of what "dedication" is needs to evolve with the times. Or compensation, benefits, etc. need to improve. A team where everyone is within a stone's throw of retirement is going to have serious succession issues if something doesn't change. |
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wellway
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Aug 19, 2022 20:21:13 GMT
It's interesting that the obligations of the employee are being discussed but not the employer.
If an employer regularly expects employees to work beyond their contract hours but does not pay them that's theft too. Theft of the employee's personal time.
A contract works both ways.
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Post by busy on Aug 19, 2022 20:25:47 GMT
I just can't let go of the idea that if you are on the clock, you SHOULD be working. You shouldn't be coasting. This is such bullshit, though. It's like the meme... if you're really good at your job, you get rewarded with more work. If you accomplish all of your responsibilities and it didn't take you a 40 hour work week, so be it. Why should that person have to take on some of someone else's work to fill the time? |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 19, 2022 20:35:01 GMT
I agree with the sentiment that if you are paying for full time work, someone should be producing full time work. But some jobs are not always as quantifiable as others. And many jobs you can't quantify productivity either. In a factory you may have to make 20 widgets an hour. Easily quantifiable. In an information based job, you don't always shut down your brain to switch your load of laundry. My old boss told me on my very first day at my last job that he did some of his most brilliant thinking while he was washing his hair. He was bald! But the point still stands. I worked on a spend plan on Monday. I could not figure out how in one line costs went up from $9000 in June to $40000 in July. It was something I noted at the back of my brain. This morning while I was in the shower I was thinking about this again. And I was able to posit that there had to be a cost shift and I had to figure out places where the costs had shifted from. And then I came up with three other places that I expected to see the difference. And then when I sat down to work, I looked in those three places and I found the explanation I was looking for. It took me between Monday and this morning to figure out the answer. And really I figured it out while getting prepared for my day. I wasn't technically on the clock. But my employer had my brain working on work. 8 hours just isn't that simple. I never intended for any of my statements on this or any other thread to be all encompassing statements that covered all situations. I made a simple statement (agreeing with others on this thread) and now I am no longer interested enough to continue this discussion. I am a simple person with a simple job where I perform work and am paid for the time I spend performing that work. I'm sorry if you thought I was picking at you. I thought we were just having a conversation where we talked about nuances. I didn't mean it as picking on you or picking apart your opinions or statements. This is just how my discussions flow. Anyway I apologize for any offense. |
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 19, 2022 20:57:59 GMT
In recent years we've seen a difference in our new teachers. They don't give up several days of their summer to set up a classroom. They follow the contract hours and they use their personal days. Some teachers have been critical of that, but I think that might be the key to longevity in our profession. I worked with four teachers in the same grade level. Each month they took a day off (so one week the grade level was short a teacher every week). They didn't care if there were enough subs. They came in when the school year started and were stressed all year because they were behind. They came on time and left on time. These were all teachers who were born in the 60s and 70s. I don't think it is so much age as a mentality. I did give up days of summer to make my school year easier. I guess you gotta choose what works for you. The building I am in now has lots of teachers in their 20's and they work pretty darn hard. I also think if you are in the same grade level for years, you can get some of your stuff done faster than those that have to switch grade levels. Switching in elementary school adds on so much extra time each year. I taught 5th grade for 26 years and had my lesson plans on sticky notes that could be printed off. The I'd just peel a sticky note with the correct lesson (obj, plan, outcome etc.) and put it in the correct square of my plan book. I could get my lesson plans done in 7 minutes week. I'd update them in my book when I changed things. Was the best thing I did as a teacher for using my time wisely. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 19, 2022 21:04:17 GMT
I'm sorry if you thought I was picking at you. I thought we were just having a conversation where we talked about nuances. I didn't mean it as picking on you or picking apart your opinions or statements. This is just how my discussions flow. Anyway I apologize for any offense. I wasn't trying to do that, either... I was trying to get the same point across-- about some jobs not being as 'quantifiable' as others-- you said it much more eloquently than I did, jeremysgirl . (not surprising, as you are much more eloquent in getting your point across). I guess I took the '8 hours of work for 8 hours pay' comments a bit personally, based on some of my previous work experiences. eta: and I *absolutely* think this is an issue more with US culture than with some other countries-- at least from what I know of companies in the EU countries, through interactions with them via work. It should not be a "point of pride" that someone never uses their vacation days or sick days. And employers should not make someone feel 'guilty' about needing / wanting a day off for personal reasons- for ANY reason- as long as the work schedule allows for it- or if they have enough notice that they can accommodate the employee somehow. But it does still happen. Each month they took a day off (so one week the grade level was short a teacher every week). They didn't care if there were enough subs. ^^^ but is this the teachers' fault / responsibility, or is the issue with the administration / upper management at that school? It could be looked at as a management responsibility, and making it mgmt's responsibility to make the positions attractive enough to fill when needed. My DH works for a trucking company. He does area-wide shuttle runs, etc. and works 4 10-12 hour days, with Fridays off. That was negotiated when he took the job. But last week the owner asked, 'does DH not want to work on Fridays, or what?' Like it was a personal failing on his part that he wanted (and negotiated) a weekday free to take care of personal things like doctor's appts, etc. |
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Post by wallyagain on Aug 19, 2022 22:45:30 GMT
I know someone that just gave their notice, as their workload has doubled in the last four years. It creeped but it still increased continuously. This person has asked for help over and over and nothing happened. This company will have a hard time filling this position for the money and the work load.
We’ve been brain washed over the years that somehow we owe the employers. With the labour shortage, employees are starting to stand up for themselves. And good on them.
Expecting anyone to work overtime for no pay is ridiculous..
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,672
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 19, 2022 23:13:22 GMT
I totally get how gen z feels. I have always been very ambitious, going for promotion after promotion. Then I got a big promotion in 2020. I worked like a dog, and was definitely underpaid. It impacted my life in a negative way. It almost broke me. The pandemic made me realize that life is too short to put a job ahead of my personal life. I am now happily in a job where the responsibility does not interfere with my family life. I never want a high stress job again.
I just realize that I could drop dead today and my job would be posting my position tomorrow. If I'm so replaceable, why should I go so far above and beyond? I'm not saying that I don't work hard to get my job done. I'm just saying I will no longer put a job first. Ever. I want peace in my life and that means focusing on my family when I'm not on the clock at work. No more jobs that require me to work 6 days, 50 hours a week.
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ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,182
Location: Valley of the Sun
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Aug 19, 2022 23:41:40 GMT
Two of my coworkers died a couple months apart a couple years ago. I remember how stressed out they were about their jobs. We had a horrible manager. And when they died, the company sent out a short email and that was it. A couple weeks later, they were both replaced. Horrible manager is still there. One had been with the company for over 20 years and the other for 10 years. Sad thinking about how the last months of their life was spent stressing about a job that didn't care about them at all. This is heartbreaking. |
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 20, 2022 1:53:31 GMT
I'm sorry if you thought I was picking at you. I thought we were just having a conversation where we talked about nuances. I didn't mean it as picking on you or picking apart your opinions or statements. This is just how my discussions flow. Anyway I apologize for any offense. I wasn't trying to do that, either... I was trying to get the same point across-- about some jobs not being as 'quantifiable' as others-- you said it much more eloquently than I did, jeremysgirl . (not surprising, as you are much more eloquent in getting your point across). I guess I took the '8 hours of work for 8 hours pay' comments a bit personally, based on some of my previous work experiences. eta: and I *absolutely* think this is an issue more with US culture than with some other countries-- at least from what I know of companies in the EU countries, through interactions with them via work. It should not be a "point of pride" that someone never uses their vacation days or sick days. And employers should not make someone feel 'guilty' about needing / wanting a day off for personal reasons- for ANY reason- as long as the work schedule allows for it- or if they have enough notice that they can accommodate the employee somehow. But it does still happen. Each month they took a day off (so one week the grade level was short a teacher every week). They didn't care if there were enough subs. ^^^ but is this the teachers' fault / responsibility, or is the issue with the administration / upper management at that school? It could be looked at as a management responsibility, and making it mgmt's responsibility to make the positions attractive enough to fill when needed. My DH works for a trucking company. He does area-wide shuttle runs, etc. and works 4 10-12 hour days, with Fridays off. That was negotiated when he took the job. But last week the owner asked, 'does DH not want to work on Fridays, or what?' Like it was a personal failing on his part that he wanted (and negotiated) a weekday free to take care of personal things like doctor's appts, etc. In a school district, subs are paid according to district policy. Non profit schools don't pay well for subs (in general)... especially before Covid. While the teachers were within their rights to take their sick days and use them every year, it was a little hard when they actually did get sick and needed days and then asked other teachers to give them their sick days. In general, teachers missing work causes a lot of other people to give up their planning period with no paybacks. If one of my teammates was ill, we always helped cover, but I never had a teammate who didn't at least send in lesson plans. The set of teachers I was referring to didn't have plans. Teaching is an incredibly draining job, but thankfully there were days that we were able to take care of personal things almost every month. |
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Post by grammadee on Aug 20, 2022 1:57:57 GMT
if you are being paid for 8 hours of work, you should be working for 8 hours. But also, if you are being paid for 8 hours of work, then you should not be expected to put in 10 or 12 hours. I think too many of this generation has seen their parents treated like my dh was: gave all of himself all of the time to the company and was laid off with no notice. I know that my work and hours were not adequately recognized by the management at the college that paid me, but I put in the extra time and energy for my students. I wouldn't call it quiet quitting. I would call it clean boundaries. When a person is at work, I would expect them to do their job to the best of their ability. When they go home, I would expect them to give their LIFE some attention. |
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Post by Clair on Aug 20, 2022 2:58:35 GMT
I think it would better to either change careers or find a new job than slack. I don't think not wanting to put in a ton of extra hours is "slacking." If someone is fulfilling their job duties well but not going above and beyond, that should be enough. Not everyone needs to be ambitious and constantly striving to advance. There will always people who do want to advance and push hard, but it's messed up that our culture thinks that should be everyone. It's not that way in many other countries. I agree with this - not wanting to put in a ton of extra hours is not slacking. But, in our current economic downturn, employees need to be keenly aware of what is going on at their company and in their industry. Not every employee needs to push hard for the next promotion but they should strive to be a solid dependable team member when they’re working. Companies look at productivity when deciding who on a team will be laid off. They’ll keep the most productive team player whether work 8 or 12 hours per day. |
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Post by imkat on Aug 20, 2022 9:51:24 GMT
Some additional thoughts:
- The Pendulum - My kids grew up with me working a lot of overtime and stressed about my job and say No Thanks.
-Job Market - I worked so much because, as the primary breadwinner, I was afraid of losing my job and not getting one with similar pay and benefits. With extra efforts, skill, and a bit of luck, I made it through many rounds of layoffs, downsizing, offshoring, etc. It’s easier to Quiet Quit when jobs are plentiful.
- Remote Work - there has always been slacking, but with the recent uptick in remote work, there is more opportunity for employees and concern by employers. It’s interesting because when remote work began around 20 years ago, the big thing was work-life integration—I can pick up my kids from school during the workday and later take a call during their soccer practice. Gradually people saw the benefit of boundaries and compartmentalizing. You can’t be available 24-7.
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rickmer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,185
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Post by rickmer on Aug 20, 2022 18:06:09 GMT
i think there has to be something in between unreasonable, unending expectations and holding firm at 40hrs/week and taking full lunch every day.
there will be busy periods that require a bit extra, work through lunch, some later evenings but if your company EXPECTS it and staffs based on that, i agree it's time to give them what they are paying for and step back a bit. i had to do that at my last job, it was a hamster wheel and would NEVER be caught up. i finally said "enough" when i found my role wasn't even bonus-able - while i had been working late hours to support those roles in our company that DID qualify for bonus who logged off at 5pm (or earlier) daily.
i have usually worked on salary so no such thing as overtime, i don't mind working some extra but also feel if i have to start an hour late because of a dental appt that i should not be asked if i will take PTO for that.
there has to be give and take on both sides.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 20, 2022 18:21:33 GMT
These employees are working their 40 hours, that's not lazy. It is saying I won't be exploited so that the CEO can buy another holiday home because it's not the employee who gets the big big bonuses. I agree. Working "only" the required 40 hours is not lazy, it's how it should be. Luckily, I've never had a job where I've had to work more than 8-5 hours and I always leave work at work. I'm not cut out for the competitive, workworkwork to get ahead mentality. I think that what is done outside of work is way more important than my job. I can be replaced at work, but not by my loved ones. Based on the jobs that DS and I have had over the years, the expectation for salaried jobs is more like 50 hours a week, not 40 now. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 20, 2022 18:23:05 GMT
In recent years we've seen a difference in our new teachers. They don't give up several days of their summer to set up a classroom. They follow the contract hours and they use their personal days. Some teachers have been critical of that, but I think that might be the key to longevity in our profession. I worked with four teachers in the same grade level. Each month they took a day off (so one week the grade level was short a teacher every week). They didn't care if there were enough subs. They came in when the school year started and were stressed all year because they were behind. They came on time and left on time. These were all teachers who were born in the 60s and 70s. I don't think it is so much age as a mentality. I did give up days of summer to make my school year easier. I guess you gotta choose what works for you. The building I am in now has lots of teachers in their 20's and they work pretty darn hard. I also think if you are in the same grade level for years, you can get some of your stuff done faster than those that have to switch grade levels. Switching in elementary school adds on so much extra time each year. I taught 5th grade for 26 years and had my lesson plans on sticky notes that could be printed off. The I'd just peel a sticky note with the correct lesson (obj, plan, outcome etc.) and put it in the correct square of my plan book. I could get my lesson plans done in 7 minutes week. I'd update them in my book when I changed things. Was the best thing I did as a teacher for using my time wisely. Why should a teacher worry about subs? Not their responsibility. It’s admin’s. If they have the days off to take, there’s no reason they shouldn’t take them. It’s GOOD they don’t care about subs. Don’t let admin convince you that’s your issue instead of theirs! |
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Post by Merge on Aug 20, 2022 18:44:04 GMT
I wasn't trying to do that, either... I was trying to get the same point across-- about some jobs not being as 'quantifiable' as others-- you said it much more eloquently than I did, jeremysgirl . (not surprising, as you are much more eloquent in getting your point across). I guess I took the '8 hours of work for 8 hours pay' comments a bit personally, based on some of my previous work experiences. eta: and I *absolutely* think this is an issue more with US culture than with some other countries-- at least from what I know of companies in the EU countries, through interactions with them via work. It should not be a "point of pride" that someone never uses their vacation days or sick days. And employers should not make someone feel 'guilty' about needing / wanting a day off for personal reasons- for ANY reason- as long as the work schedule allows for it- or if they have enough notice that they can accommodate the employee somehow. But it does still happen. ^^^ but is this the teachers' fault / responsibility, or is the issue with the administration / upper management at that school? It could be looked at as a management responsibility, and making it mgmt's responsibility to make the positions attractive enough to fill when needed. My DH works for a trucking company. He does area-wide shuttle runs, etc. and works 4 10-12 hour days, with Fridays off. That was negotiated when he took the job. But last week the owner asked, 'does DH not want to work on Fridays, or what?' Like it was a personal failing on his part that he wanted (and negotiated) a weekday free to take care of personal things like doctor's appts, etc. In a school district, subs are paid according to district policy. Non profit schools don't pay well for subs (in general)... especially before Covid. While the teachers were within their rights to take their sick days and use them every year, it was a little hard when they actually did get sick and needed days and then asked other teachers to give them their sick days. In general, teachers missing work causes a lot of other people to give up their planning period with no paybacks. If one of my teammates was ill, we always helped cover, but I never had a teammate who didn't at least send in lesson plans. The set of teachers I was referring to didn't have plans. Teaching is an incredibly draining job, but thankfully there were days that we were able to take care of personal things almost every month. Consistently calling in without leaving plans would get you written up in my district. Full time teachers are required to have emergency plans uploaded for last-minute needs, and if they have more than a few hours’ notice that they will be out, they’re required to leave detailed, rigorous plans. I agree, though, that people should be able to take their time off. It’s not teachers’ fault that the district won’t pay enough to attract enough subs. Heck, they won’t pay enough or treat us well enough to attract enough regular teachers. Last year my team and I agreed that we absolved each other from any guilt if we were out and there was no sub. We had to split the extra class when that happened. But it was what it was. The thing with a lot of jobs is that time and productivity are not necessarily linked. Some people work more quickly than others. I’d love to see corporate jobs employ people to complete certain tasks rather than to warm a seat for 8 hours. |
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Post by ~summer~ on Aug 20, 2022 18:57:12 GMT
I do a lot of coding and data manipulation - I’m super fast and definitely don’t work 8 hours a day lol. I actually think if I did this work for 8 hours a day my brain would explode. Days that I have lots of meetings I might get very little done but in general I’m very productive.
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Post by catmom on Aug 20, 2022 23:02:35 GMT
pantsonfire the only quote in this article that was about coasting came from a CEO. The rest of the quotes about this topic came from actual Gen Z and Millennial workers. The definition between the two was different. The employer used the word coasting and the employees used the words doing their job description on 40 hours a week, no more. I think it's very telling that employer and employee have different definitions of what quiet quitting is. This article was also from the Wall Street Journal which has a history of putting business owner over employees. That's interesting to me as well. As someone who has worked in white collar America I see this as being very different than the employer view. Doing what is expected of you and what you are actually getting paid for might look like coasting to an employer who is used to generations before them killing themselves in allegiance to the corporation. So basically there are two ways to look at this. I'm looking at both. In my experience in the work world, (Gen X) it looks very much to me like employers have gotten used to their employees being a whole lot more willing to put in the extra effort for the sake of the company and to the detriment of the worker. And people are finally starting to realize that no one on their deathbed says, if only I had worked 10 more hours a week uncompensated! Agree and I really noticed this in the article. That somehow working the 40 hour-week workers are paid for is coasting and 'quietly quitting'. It was telling that the partner from the consulting company low-key threatened that these people wouldn't do well in a different economic environment and that is is 'perfectly appropriate to expect workers to give their all'. I believed in giving my all and climbing the corporate ladder and I was very successful at it. I was also working 12 hour days plus weekends and was suffering from significant burnout with impacts on both my mental and physical health. I was never truly off, always available. And SO much of the extra money I made went to services to make up for the time I wasn't around - housekeeping, lawn maintenance, gardeners, food delivery etc plus the necessary wardrobe and hair for the role. I now reject that my meaning in life comes from how successful I am at making rich people even richer, especially at the expense of my health and well-being. Millennials and GenY have it right in my opinion. jeremysgirl, regarding your question about expectations for you - are your colleagues also working late? Are you getting texts from other departments in the evening? There might be an expectation to work more hours, but if you are meeting your deadlines and your work product is as-expected than it's unlikely there's a problem - unless you are looking to climb the corporate ladder. Based on my experience and the time it took to get my mental health back on track, I would recommend prioritizing work life balance over any real or perceived expectations. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 20, 2022 23:22:33 GMT
pantsonfire the only quote in this article that was about coasting came from a CEO. The rest of the quotes about this topic came from actual Gen Z and Millennial workers. The definition between the two was different. The employer used the word coasting and the employees used the words doing their job description on 40 hours a week, no more. I think it's very telling that employer and employee have different definitions of what quiet quitting is. This article was also from the Wall Street Journal which has a history of putting business owner over employees. That's interesting to me as well. As someone who has worked in white collar America I see this as being very different than the employer view. Doing what is expected of you and what you are actually getting paid for might look like coasting to an employer who is used to generations before them killing themselves in allegiance to the corporation. So basically there are two ways to look at this. I'm looking at both. In my experience in the work world, (Gen X) it looks very much to me like employers have gotten used to their employees being a whole lot more willing to put in the extra effort for the sake of the company and to the detriment of the worker. And people are finally starting to realize that no one on their deathbed says, if only I had worked 10 more hours a week uncompensated! Agree and I really noticed this in the article. That somehow working the 40 hour-week workers are paid for is coasting and 'quietly quitting'. It was telling that the partner from the consulting company low-key threatened that these people wouldn't do well in a different economic environment and that is is 'perfectly appropriate to expect workers to give their all'. I believed in giving my all and climbing the corporate ladder and I was very successful at it. I was also working 12 hour days plus weekends and was suffering from significant burnout with impacts on both my mental and physical health. I was never truly off, always available. And SO much of the extra money I made went to services to make up for the time I wasn't around - housekeeping, lawn maintenance, gardeners, food delivery etc plus the necessary wardrobe and hair for the role. I now reject that my meaning in life comes from how successful I am at making rich people even richer, especially at the expense of my health and well-being. Millennials and GenY have it right in my opinion. jeremysgirl, regarding your question about expectations for you - are your colleagues also working late? Are you getting texts from other departments in the evening? There might be an expectation to work more hours, but if you are meeting your deadlines and your work product is as-expected than it's unlikely there's a problem - unless you are looking to climb the corporate ladder. Based on my experience and the time it took to get my mental health back on track, I would recommend prioritizing work life balance over any real or perceived expectations. Thank you for asking me that question. It is one I hadn't thought of. The answer is no. My colleagues are not working a ton of overtime unless something major is going on. With that said, a lot of my colleagues take advantage of flexible work hours though. And I see that. But unless there is something odd going on (my former boss is a good example because they haven't yet filled my old position and he's been plagued with IT issues from a system changeover) people just aren't putting in a weird amount of hours. I think I am on the struggle bus just a little because my section is a 2 person unit. And my coworker has been off since two weeks before I started. Unfortunately she had a stroke. So she was the only person who I could use as a real guide really for anything going on in our unit. And she hasn't been around as long as I've been in the job. I just used to report to a middle manager who was very laid back. He worked hard but when he was off, he was off and he respected that about us as employees too. My new boss is the big director of our whole division. And he is new to the role too. I think it's awesome you asked me though to look around at what others are doing. I didn't even think about that. And others are working their 40 unless something unusual happens. I really do work in a great place. There's a reason I will be here until retirement. Hopefully not in the same role, but I won't leave my workplace. Because it's an awesome place to work. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 20, 2022 23:44:09 GMT
I think also with corporate jobs, there's a realization among low- and mid-level employees that the executives are making plenty with bonuses and other compensation, but salaries down the ladder are not going to rise along with inflation. Medical benefits are terrible to just OK, no one has any expectation of social security being there in retirement and yet they're not making enough to really save for their own retirement (or buy a house or save for their kids' college). The only way to improve your lot is to leave for another job, but then you're going to run up against the same corporate beat-down. Why would anyone kill themselves for that?
I've read elsewhere that some describe this as a silent workers' revolution. Employers are going to have to figure out that they're going to have to meaningfully reward hard work, or they're not going to get the productivity they used to rely on to increase profits and thus shareholder value. Bringing in lunch once in a while isn't going to do it. The corporation may exist to increase shareholder value, but increasingly, individual employees do not feel that is their personal reason for going to work each day. Why hustle when there's no real expectation of improving your situation?
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