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Post by monklady123 on Sept 6, 2022 19:37:20 GMT
 I subbed in the 3rd grade today and at math time one kid said "I HATE MATH!!" sigh. Rather than say "me too kid, me too" (which of course I would never say to a kid) I said instead "well, once you understand whatever it is you're working on you'll see it's just like a puzzle! I love puzzles! Do you? Let's see what the work is and see if we can figure out the puzzle." ugh. I'm such a good liar sometimes. Well...I actually do love puzzles, but not math ones.  Anyway, when I got home I thought okay maybe I need to take my own advice. I've seen a lot of people mention Khan Academy so I made an account and took a look around. I picked Basic Algebra to start with because I thought maybe the one called Arithmetic would be too basic. And back in the Dark Ages when I was in school I wasn't actually too bad in algebra. But... Right away it wants me to add, subtract, multiply, and divide using negative numbers. Okay, first of all what the heck IS a negative number anyway? I mean, in concrete terms how can we have negative of something? I know, on the thermometer we can have negative. When I think of -20 as a temperature my brain just thinks "really cold" and moves on from there. Okay, so I start the little unit test. And right away I'm asked to multiply two negative numbers, which the little unhelpful hint tells me will be positive. I vaguely remember that from when I learned it back in the dark ages. But why? How are two negatives a positive? So I click on the link where it says "why do two negatives multiplied equal a positive number". I watch the little lesson and my brain is just saying "huh?" I still have no idea WHY two negatives multiplied come out to a positive number, although of course now I can do the calculations. But that's not going to help me explain it if I end up subbing in the 5th grade, where the advanced math kids will definitely be doing algebra prep. So then I went back and chose Pre Algebra for my course. Immediately it gave me a decimal and asked me to chose which of four fractions was closest in value to that decimal. And it wasn't something easy like .25 or .75. hahaha Okay, the basic Arithmetic course it is. 
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The Birdhouse Lady
Drama Llama
Moose. It's what's for dinner.
Posts: 7,379
Location: Alaska -The Last Frontier
Jun 30, 2014 17:15:19 GMT
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Post by The Birdhouse Lady on Sept 6, 2022 19:43:27 GMT
I'm right there with you!!  I'm great with basic math and figuring out percentages. You know, I'm out shopping and the shirt is 25% off how much is it kind of math. |
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Post by katlady on Sept 6, 2022 19:46:19 GMT
I was good at math in school ... sorry!  But, I've seen the way kids do math in school now, and I just don't understand what they are doing! |
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 6, 2022 19:51:14 GMT
I'm right there with you!!  I'm great with basic math and figuring out percentages. You know, I'm out shopping and the shirt is 25% off how much is it kind of math. Yes! lol. But that type of math makes SENSE! haha I see the full price cost, then the sign says 25% off... my brain knows 25% is 1/4 so then I divide the full price by 4 to see what 1/4 of it would be, and that's the amount that's taken off the price. But negative numbers.... ? |
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,295 
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Post by iowgirl on Sept 6, 2022 19:59:34 GMT
Math. I shudder at the thought. I have no confidence in doing any of it.
I never let on to my kids though. And they all turned out to be math whizzes! Whew! LOL A couple of them love math, one just is good at it and tries to avoid it. LOL
All of my kids took college level math before they went to college. One of them was so happy that they didn't have to take a single math class in college, because they had it all done before they graduated high school! LOL The Engineer started college math with Calc 3... uck. I can't imagine. Double major - Engineering/Math. Lordy.
I chalk it up to one spectacularly amazing wonderful high school math teacher. She is an absolute treasure. My husband even had her for high school math!
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Sept 6, 2022 20:04:44 GMT
I hate math. I have legitimate issues with it. But to pass nursing school you needed basic math courses and some advanced algebra. I started about four classes behind. Found a teacher who would work with me and slowly one class at a time got the credits I needed. The last math course we were about halfway through when the teacher just stopped his lecture. He looks right at me and said…spidey I am very sorry to do this. You have done so well to this point. Please trust me to get you through this. Then he proceeded to introduce IMAGINARY numbers. I about lost it. I can’t do math with real numbers much less Imaginary ones. He was a good teacher. I have my BSN in no small part to his efforts. I was ready to quit that day. I have yet to ever need this math as a nurse.
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 6, 2022 20:09:55 GMT
I hate math. I have legitimate issues with it. But to pass nursing school you needed basic math courses and some advanced algebra. I started about four classes behind. Found a teacher who would work with me and slowly one class at a time got the credits I needed. The last math course we were about halfway through when the teacher just stopped his lecture. He looks right at me and said…spidey I am very sorry to do this. You have done so well to this point. Please trust me to get you through this. Then he proceeded to introduce IMAGINARY numbers. I about lost it. I can’t do math with real numbers much less Imaginary ones. He was a good teacher. I have my BSN in no small part to his efforts. I was ready to quit that day. I have yet to ever need this math as a nurse.  What is an imaginary number anyway? Especially for a nurse? lol. Your job is concretely right in front of you, and thing like medications and doses are good old concrete real numbers. |
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 6, 2022 20:16:48 GMT
I was good at math in school ... sorry! But, I've seen the way kids do math in school now, and I just don't understand what they are doing! In my experience with "today's" math, kids are doing the same concepts, but they are learning why numbers work the way they do. They spend a lot of time on number placement and worth and examining numbers. If they understand these things (and many more) they are able to understand the why of math and not just the "memorize the steps" kind of math I learned. From they they are much better equipped to transfer their number sense to other concepts. I taught fifth grade math and we worked on number sense for quite a while. When we got to fractions, the kids were much better equipped to understand those concepts and they transferred quickly to decimals and percents and I could finally see the reason behind the whole process of number sense. Do all kids get it? No, but all kids didn't get the just memorize the steps process either. For me, I see math a bit differently and am that person who subtracts by adding a number to both sides to make it easier in my head. I get spending a lot of time with number sense now. My favorite process for multiplying fractions used to be, "Ours is not to question why, just invert and multiply." Does it work? Yes, but understanding why you flipped the second fraction really made more sense for me. Don't ask me the reason now... I have clearly forgotten it. When I taught ten year olds math, I thought it was important to teach the number sense thoroughly and then teach them the shortcuts. The love the shortcuts (don't we all), but learning the why of numbers really helped transfer the understanding of other concepts more quickly. |
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Post by christine58 on Sept 6, 2022 20:19:35 GMT
I was good at math in school ... sorry! But, I've seen the way kids do math in school now, and I just don't understand what they are doing! In my experience with "today's" math, kids are doing the same concepts, but they are learning why numbers work the way they do. They spend a lot of time on number placement and worth and examining numbers. If they understand these things (and many more) they are able to understand the why of math and not just the "memorize the steps" kind of math I learned. From they they are much better equipped to transfer their number sense to other concepts. I taught fifth grade math and we worked on number sense for quite a while. When we got to fractions, the kids were much better equipped to understand those concepts and they transferred quickly to decimals and percents and I could finally see the reason behind the whole process of number sense. Do all kids get it? No, but all kids didn't get the just memorize the steps process either. For me, I see math a bit differently and am that person who subtracts by adding a number to both sides to make it easier in my head. I get spending a lot of time with number sense now. My favorite process for multiplying fractions used to be, "Ours is not to question why, just invert and multiply." Does it work? Yes, but understanding why you flipped the second fraction really made more sense for me. Don't ask me the reason now... I have clearly forgotten it. When I taught ten year olds math, I thought it was important to teach the number sense thoroughly and then teach them the shortcuts. The love the shortcuts (don't we all), but learning the why of numbers really helped transfer the understanding of other concepts more quickly. I thought flipping was for dividing fractions? |
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Post by scrapmaven on Sept 6, 2022 20:25:41 GMT
I love the way you presented it to your student. I have a learning disability that prohibits me from doing anything beyond 4th grade math. I am not joking. So, I am determined to take and pass algebra. I've failed it 8 times. My dh cringes when I mention it, because he's been my tutor so many times and 3 hours on one problem in beginning algebra is not fun for either of us. Still, I'm determined. Good luck w/your math course. Start w/the easier course and then go fwd. You can do this!
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 6, 2022 20:27:09 GMT
In my experience with "today's" math, kids are doing the same concepts, but they are learning why numbers work the way they do. They spend a lot of time on number placement and worth and examining numbers. If they understand these things (and many more) they are able to understand the why of math and not just the "memorize the steps" kind of math I learned. From they they are much better equipped to transfer their number sense to other concepts. I taught fifth grade math and we worked on number sense for quite a while. When we got to fractions, the kids were much better equipped to understand those concepts and they transferred quickly to decimals and percents and I could finally see the reason behind the whole process of number sense. Do all kids get it? No, but all kids didn't get the just memorize the steps process either. For me, I see math a bit differently and am that person who subtracts by adding a number to both sides to make it easier in my head. I get spending a lot of time with number sense now. My favorite process for multiplying fractions used to be, "Ours is not to question why, just invert and multiply." Does it work? Yes, but understanding why you flipped the second fraction really made more sense for me. Don't ask me the reason now... I have clearly forgotten it. When I taught ten year olds math, I thought it was important to teach the number sense thoroughly and then teach them the shortcuts. The love the shortcuts (don't we all), but learning the why of numbers really helped transfer the understanding of other concepts more quickly. I thought flipping was for dividing fractions? Yes! Sadly I can't remember THAT! I did learn it though. I remember multiply and not the process. |
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Post by hop2 on Sept 6, 2022 20:31:08 GMT
Negative numbers is like the money you owe
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Post by workingclassdog on Sept 6, 2022 20:38:34 GMT
I'm there with you.. when you start adding in letters.. what the heck? So stupid. I hate hate math with a passion. AND I worked in a damn accounting firm for 20 years. Thankfully they did not depend on me to do much math equations. Back when you balanced a checkbook. Yep, never did 90% of the time. I had a boss once said you just don't try enough. I almost bitch slapped her.
Thankfully my two oldest kids got along without me. My youngest is just like me though.. she gets so frustrated and I am right beside her. I have to call in reinforcements.
This thread is making me twitchy! lol
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Post by workingclassdog on Sept 6, 2022 20:40:24 GMT
In my experience with "today's" math, kids are doing the same concepts, but they are learning why numbers work the way they do. They spend a lot of time on number placement and worth and examining numbers. If they understand these things (and many more) they are able to understand the why of math and not just the "memorize the steps" kind of math I learned. From they they are much better equipped to transfer their number sense to other concepts. I taught fifth grade math and we worked on number sense for quite a while. When we got to fractions, the kids were much better equipped to understand those concepts and they transferred quickly to decimals and percents and I could finally see the reason behind the whole process of number sense. Do all kids get it? No, but all kids didn't get the just memorize the steps process either. For me, I see math a bit differently and am that person who subtracts by adding a number to both sides to make it easier in my head. I get spending a lot of time with number sense now. My favorite process for multiplying fractions used to be, "Ours is not to question why, just invert and multiply." Does it work? Yes, but understanding why you flipped the second fraction really made more sense for me. Don't ask me the reason now... I have clearly forgotten it. When I taught ten year olds math, I thought it was important to teach the number sense thoroughly and then teach them the shortcuts. The love the shortcuts (don't we all), but learning the why of numbers really helped transfer the understanding of other concepts more quickly. You lost me at "In my experience" the rest just went over my head.. lol.. my head just did the Exorcist spin |
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Post by katlady on Sept 6, 2022 20:42:06 GMT
Why did the quote posted by workingclassdog attribute it to me? I didn't type that! |
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Sept 6, 2022 20:42:14 GMT
I was good at math in school ... sorry! But, I've seen the way kids do math in school now, and I just don't understand what they are doing! In my experience with "today's" math, kids are doing the same concepts, but they are learning why numbers work the way they do. They spend a lot of time on number placement and worth and examining numbers. If they understand these things (and many more) they are able to understand the why of math and not just the "memorize the steps" kind of math I learned. From they they are much better equipped to transfer their number sense to other concepts. I taught fifth grade math and we worked on number sense for quite a while. When we got to fractions, the kids were much better equipped to understand those concepts and they transferred quickly to decimals and percents and I could finally see the reason behind the whole process of number sense. Do all kids get it? No, but all kids didn't get the just memorize the steps process either. For me, I see math a bit differently and am that person who subtracts by adding a number to both sides to make it easier in my head. I get spending a lot of time with number sense now. My favorite process for multiplying fractions used to be, "Ours is not to question why, just invert and multiply." Does it work? Yes, but understanding why you flipped the second fraction really made more sense for me. Don't ask me the reason now... I have clearly forgotten it. When I taught ten year olds math, I thought it was important to teach the number sense thoroughly and then teach them the shortcuts. The love the shortcuts (don't we all), but learning the why of numbers really helped transfer the understanding of other concepts more quickly. IME with DD's elementary math (she's a HS freshman now), that was NOT the case! I actually do like math - at least through algebra. But the difficulties we had were because they were trying to teach gimmicky shit instead of the real hows/whys of numbers. In particular, I remember something about a turtle - YES, in MATH. Sigh. |
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Post by workingclassdog on Sept 6, 2022 20:55:11 GMT
Why did the quote posted by workingclassdog attribute it to me? I didn't type that! Oh that is weird!! Must have been the way I 'tried' to delete some of it? 950nancy.. that is your quote.. haha |
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 6, 2022 20:57:55 GMT
In my experience with "today's" math, kids are doing the same concepts, but they are learning why numbers work the way they do. They spend a lot of time on number placement and worth and examining numbers. If they understand these things (and many more) they are able to understand the why of math and not just the "memorize the steps" kind of math I learned. From they they are much better equipped to transfer their number sense to other concepts. I taught fifth grade math and we worked on number sense for quite a while. When we got to fractions, the kids were much better equipped to understand those concepts and they transferred quickly to decimals and percents and I could finally see the reason behind the whole process of number sense. Do all kids get it? No, but all kids didn't get the just memorize the steps process either. For me, I see math a bit differently and am that person who subtracts by adding a number to both sides to make it easier in my head. I get spending a lot of time with number sense now. My favorite process for multiplying fractions used to be, "Ours is not to question why, just invert and multiply." Does it work? Yes, but understanding why you flipped the second fraction really made more sense for me. Don't ask me the reason now... I have clearly forgotten it. When I taught ten year olds math, I thought it was important to teach the number sense thoroughly and then teach them the shortcuts. The love the shortcuts (don't we all), but learning the why of numbers really helped transfer the understanding of other concepts more quickly. IME with DD's elementary math (she's a HS freshman now), that was NOT the case! I actually do like math - at least through algebra. But the difficulties we had were because they were trying to teach gimmicky shit instead of the real hows/whys of numbers. In particular, I remember something about a turtle - YES, in MATH. Sigh. I taught fifth grade math for 26 years and saw it morph. The only turtle like critter I remember was greater than less than with which number an alligator wanted to eat (the larger number) and then something with a butterfly with fractions. Those were pre 2000's material. Our book was very specific like in the above video. We spent so much time on number lines for number theory. Our kids had to show they understood dividing fractions on a number line before we went into the formula of it. I suppose it would really depend on which series your district was using, but after the Race to the Top in 2009, it seemed like most books started really focusing on number sense. I wonder if the turtle was a teacher thing. We all bring our experiences into what we taught. |
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Post by Zee on Sept 6, 2022 21:37:52 GMT
I really feel you. I have taken algebra once, twice, three times. Each time I...don't get it. I don't care to get it. It's nothing but frustration for me. I know enough basic math to be able to calculate dosages and things, but I certainly didn't become a nurse to use math, lol. So to get my BSN, I had been out of school 20 years and the test placed me into basic math which actually was much harder than I thought it would be. It covered something of everything. Even with DH, who loves math and is great at it, tutoring me, I simply could not get algebra or whatever else plotting points and making curves is--see, I already forgot it. Fortunately I did great at the parts calculating interest rates and all that practical math stuff so I passed with a B+, the only B I got (grrrr). I just barely got an A in statistics because DH helped me with the homework and I got extra points for it. I had to take all my own tests proctored online so there was no having him help me. A couple times I literally cried in frustration because I just don't think that way, whatever way makes algebra make sense. Geometry makes more sense to me and practical stuff that has an application is OK. I'm not a stupid person but I sure feel like one when I'm trying to set up a story problem or solve algebraic equations. |
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Post by belgravia on Sept 6, 2022 21:59:46 GMT
I loved math in university, but the Calculus my kid has been doing for her Engineering degree is on a whole other level 😳😳😳
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 6, 2022 22:07:59 GMT
70 years ago and I can still see the multiplication circle on the blackboard. I can draw most of the numbers out of my brain. Past 12s not so good!
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Post by workingclassdog on Sept 6, 2022 22:17:53 GMT
70 years ago and I can still see the multiplication circle on the blackboard. I can draw most of the numbers out of my brain. Past 12s not so good! never heard of the multiplication circle! I had a multiplication square.. lol |
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Post by Cupcake on Sept 6, 2022 22:19:48 GMT
I am a total math nerd and can easily make more money tutoring than at my real job 😂 I started college as a psychology major and ended up with a BS in mathematics when I realized I was taking math classes to keep my GPA up. Oops!
I come from a long line of engineers though, numbers (even imaginary ones and Greek letters!) just made sense to me. DS graduated with a degree in Computer Engineering from a top school this past spring; it was the math-heaviest engineering degree they had. DH also has 2 degrees in Finance so that probably helps too. The nerdy genes carry on!
Let me know if you get stuck solving any equations or word problems!
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Post by hopemax on Sept 6, 2022 22:20:01 GMT
I loved math in university, but the Calculus my kid has been doing for her Engineering degree is on a whole other level 😳😳😳 I graduated college in 1997 with an engineering degree, and I recently threw out the papers I had kept. Exams and some homework. I look at the Calculus and I get sad because I used to be great at it and now I can’t even remember what each of the Greek letters represent in the equations. Let alone for the rules for solving things. I love math, and it’s depressing how much I’ve forgotten. |
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Post by Merge on Sept 6, 2022 22:24:02 GMT
I really feel you. I have taken algebra once, twice, three times. Each time I...don't get it. I don't care to get it. It's nothing but frustration for me. I know enough basic math to be able to calculate dosages and things, but I certainly didn't become a nurse to use math, lol. So to get my BSN, I had been out of school 20 years and the test placed me into basic math which actually was much harder than I thought it would be. It covered something of everything. Even with DH, who loves math and is great at it, tutoring me, I simply could not get algebra or whatever else plotting points and making curves is--see, I already forgot it. Fortunately I did great at the parts calculating interest rates and all that practical math stuff so I passed with a B+, the only B I got (grrrr). I just barely got an A in statistics because DH helped me with the homework and I got extra points for it. I had to take all my own tests proctored online so there was no having him help me. A couple times I literally cried in frustration because I just don't think that way, whatever way makes algebra make sense. Geometry makes more sense to me and practical stuff that has an application is OK. I'm not a stupid person but I sure feel like one when I'm trying to set up a story problem or solve algebraic equations. I’m the same. I loved geometry and writing proofs. It was logical and visible. Algebra rarely made sense to me. I could memorize formulas and stuff but I never understood how/why it worked, which made it more difficult to see any mistakes I made. I only had to take one math course in college - a survey course - and I bombed the statistics portion of that too. There is supposedly a correlation between math ability and music theory ability, but I never saw that in myself. Music theory makes total sense to me. Algebra and trig, not at all. I didn’t have to take calculus to graduate so I didn’t. |
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Post by Restless Spirit on Sept 6, 2022 22:25:57 GMT
I feel your pain. When he was younger, I picked up my grandson from school every afternoon and did homework with him. I was OK all the way through fifth grade, then the math got just too hard for me and I had to bail. Luckily his dad is an engineer and math comes easily to him. I was always terrible at math in high school, so how in the world I got A- in Statistics in college I will never know! I think it’s a very good thing I never had to take any higher level of math after that. |
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Post by belgravia on Sept 6, 2022 22:29:12 GMT
I loved math in university, but the Calculus my kid has been doing for her Engineering degree is on a whole other level 😳😳😳 I graduated college in 1997 with an engineering degree, and I recently threw out the papers I had kept. Exams and some homework. I look at the Calculus and I get sad because I used to be great at it and now I can’t even remember what each of the Greek letters represent in the equations. Let alone for the rules for solving things. I love math, and it’s depressing how much I’ve forgotten. It disappears sooooo fast when you’re not using it regularly! It is kind of depressing, considering how hard you work to learn it! |
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 6, 2022 23:17:19 GMT
There is supposedly a correlation between math ability and music theory ability, but I never saw that in myself. Music theory makes total sense to me. Algebra and trig, not at all. I didn’t have to take calculus to graduate so I didn’t. Exactly that. lol. I play several instruments, have sung in one choir or another for most of my life, and I can read a complicated score and even talk about what key it's in. But math, not so much. |
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Post by tentoes on Sept 6, 2022 23:19:49 GMT
I almost didn't open this thread because I hate math so much! Neither of my parents were any help with homework at all. I had to do it all by myself, and I suffered through it. When I went to college (many years after I finished HS)--I was married and my husband was an engineer and didn't understand at all my fear of "math." I again suffered through it all and finally got my nursing degree!! I can see why a nurse needs to know basic math to make sure the med dosages are correct. As far as I know, I never made a mistake with any of that--in real life!
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Post by Skellinton on Sept 6, 2022 23:29:47 GMT
I love math like statistics and algebra and basic functions, but geometry makes about as much sense as chemistry to me.which is not at all.
I do cross sums for fun on my iPad, but those are just basic math.
I don’t know who said math and music go hand in hand, but I agree with the others they don’t. I know the names of the notes if I think about it (Every good boy does fine and FACE ) but
I understand music at all.
I like the way explained it your student today! The way they do math today is different, but it dies make a lot of sense and makes it easier to understand the further you go.
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But, I've seen the way kids do math in school now, and I just don't understand what they are doing! 
