peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,970 
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jan 13, 2023 16:39:05 GMT
My dd isn't engaged yet but her boyfriend has bought a ring. When they started dating years ago, I guess they had a conversation about what they would like in a wedding. Her boyfriend is Catholic but doesn't go to mass. Doesn't even have a church that he "belongs" to. His extended family is large and most of them have gotten married in the church because it is "expected". She originally said she would consider all options but now doesn't want to do the whole Catholic mass, etc.
My family is Muslim and Christian (I know Catholicism is an offshoot). DD's boyfriend is trying to stir the pot and hold her to a Catholic wedding. He said that he had to defend dd to his parents about all of this (which I know is bull. I know his parents).
My dd has convinced her bf to go to counseling with her because bf likes to create arguments just so he can win. He does this with me as well but I shut him down. He thinks counseling is stupid. Why am I saying this? Don't you have to go through counseling through the church before you get married? Do you have to convert to be able to get married in the church? My dd has zero intention of converting. I know it is in name only but she doesn't believe in their practices and I don't think she should have to do this to appease him or his family.
Also, don't you have to make a sizable donation to the church to be able to have the ceremony there? Her bf doesn't really have a grasp on how expensive weddings can be and DD wants to pay for the bulk of it. We will help but we cannot afford to pay for it alone. For example, her bf wants and open bar (which I won't pay for). DD told him that it is all on him to pay for that. DD is still getting her PhD and will be for the next 3 years so she can't really save anything. She gets a stipend but it comes out to $15/hour so we still pay for a lot for her.
Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this? I have considered talking to his mom to get some idea of what is really going on. His parents love my dd.
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Post by scrapmaven on Jan 13, 2023 16:59:14 GMT
Religion is a big deal in a marriage. If he expects her to convert and she doesn't want to that can be a deal breaker. I would think that secular counseling is mandatory in order to help them figure out their differences. If he is argumentative does she want to deal that forever? Sounds like they have things that they need to work out before getting engaged.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jan 13, 2023 16:59:58 GMT
Wow there is a whole lot to unpack here. I'm going to start by just warning you that the way you're describing your future SIL has red flags all over it - tread lightly or this marriage is going to start with serious inlaw drama! To answer a few of your questions - no you do not need to be Catholic to marry in the church. If the individual is baptized it is still a sacrament, but even if they are not baptized, they can be married in the church with a dispensation from the bishop which is typically given if the Catholic agrees to continue practicing their faith and raise any potential children Catholic. The priest does meet with the couple - termed a Pre-Cana - but I wouldn't call it counseling. The amount of any donation to the church varies tremendously by diocese from a few hundred dollars to $1000 - maybe more, but that's the most I've heard of - it is a suggestion though.
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Post by karenlou on Jan 13, 2023 17:02:24 GMT
I got married in the Catholic church, just not a mass....as the Presbyterian Church I was attending at the time was "prohibited" from marrying a Prostatant to a Catholic...thats what my pastor told me att the time.
Needless to say I never went back to that church!!!
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,640
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Post by bethany102399 on Jan 13, 2023 17:03:10 GMT
A lot of it is going to depend on the church they get married in.
It's very common to go to counseling through the church before getting married. Marriage is a sacrament in the church, and therefore they ask those who commit to it under the church roof to go in with their eyes open. It can be a good thing to force conversations between a couple.
As to conversion, it depends on the church and how they choose to do it. Back in the day, yes but now I don't know. I would think one person needs to be catholic. In some churches they do ask you to be a member, they don't want people to walk in off the street and want to get married there because it's pretty. On the flip side I had a co-worker get married in a beautiful church that completely allows people to get married there because it's pretty. They even allowed her family priest (not catholic and female) to celebrate the service with his family priest (Catholic). So it's going to depend wildly on where.
I'm sure you do have to make a donation to have a service there, sizable is in the eye of the beholder. To me, it's no more than the fee you would pay to rent a space. They have to keep the lights on and (at least here) the heat on as it's winter. Plus you're asking the priest and possibly organist for their time. They're professionals and should be compensated as such.
I'm sure others will chime in, but there are several red flags here with regard to FSIL's treatment of DD. That would concern me especially if they were getting married.
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Post by MsChiff on Jan 13, 2023 17:12:16 GMT
1. To my knowledge (I'm not Catholic but know many) the Catholic Church still requires pre-cana (counseling) before marriage.
2. Only one person of the couple needs to be Catholic. (My parents got married in a Catholic Church in the late 1950s and Mom was Catholic and Dad was not.)
3. Any 'donation is actually a fee to be married in the church; sometimes it's a set 'donation' and sometimes it's suggested. It's expensive to open a church for a single event; your 'donation' covers things like heat/AC, electricity for the lights, set up and clean up, etc.) It's really no different than any venue. You're also expected to tip the officiant, unless the officiant has a set fee for their services. In my experience, this is expected whether the officiant marries the couple in the church or elsewhere; everyone deserves payment for their time. Additionally, if you want an organist/musicians, that will be an additional charge. Any additional decorations are on you as well.
As other's have stated, I'd be far more concerned with your daughter's relationship that I would with marriage requirements. Couple's counseling is a great idea for them before they decide to get engaged.
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Post by myshelly on Jan 13, 2023 17:13:42 GMT
I can’t see your question through that forest of giant, waving red flags.
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Post by sideways on Jan 13, 2023 17:22:14 GMT
Really, it all depends on the parish. They may not have to make a sizable donation. One of them may need to be a active member, though. Depending on the parish, it may be enough if the parents are active members. I have friends where one is Catholic and the other is not and were married in a Catholic Church. My cousin (who was Catholic) was married in a Methodist church, but they also had a priest present. Yes, there is some sort of counseling that couples have to go through before getting married. That also depends on the parish.
Most importantly, I agree with there being a lot of red flags. All that you’ve shared about this guy doesn’t sound good. It points to him being very controlling. All of the above is moot compared to the issues you described. Those should be addressed before even considering getting married.
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Post by sideways on Jan 13, 2023 17:25:33 GMT
Also, counseling with the church before getting married isn’t even remotely close to couples counseling. They are not the same thing. I know people often recommend going to a priest or clergy for counseling, but they are not mental health professionals. Apples and oranges.
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Post by mags243 on Jan 13, 2023 17:25:50 GMT
My husband (Methodist) and I (Catholic) were married in my church 23 years ago. He did not have to convert. We had extensive pre-marital counseling and went to a couples' retreat, but that varies wildly from parish to parish. I think it cost $200 for the church, which wasn't unreasonable as someone had to be there to open/close the church, we used the piano, organ, etc.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about the wedding, but I would be extremely worried about the marriage. That he creates arguments just so he can win would be enough for me. We all know marriage is more stressful than dating, so what is he going to be like when life is more stressful? If they aren't on the same page with the wedding and reception, what about the big issues like fiances or children? Red flags are all over this.
I would take advantage the next time your daughter vents to you, and make sure she is aware of your thoughts. Surely she has some of the same concerns.
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on Jan 13, 2023 17:31:41 GMT
If he is argumentative does she want to deal that forever? Sounds like they have things that they need to work out before getting engaged. Your description of him/them does not sound like it's a healthy relationship that needs to head into marriage. Please tell her so that she can hear you that he will not change, she can not change him. Accept him as-is or move on! Sorry for the hi-jack but I know nothing about the Catholic church's ways. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 1, 2024 18:19:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2023 17:34:45 GMT
I think there are bigger problems here than the church.
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Post by Merge on Jan 13, 2023 17:35:39 GMT
Others have answered your questions - I'll just throw in there from experience that a family that requires the wedding to be in the church will also expect Catholic baptisms for every child (in fact, your DD will have to promise that any children will be raised and baptized Catholic before the priest will marry them). Something to consider among all those - sorry, I agree with the others - huge red flags.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,837
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Post by Just T on Jan 13, 2023 17:47:23 GMT
My family is Muslim and Christian (I know Catholicism is an offshoot). What does "an offshoot" even mean? I can't even respond to all the issues raised in your post. This sounds like a marriage destined to be quite difficult for your DD, to be honest. Starting arguments just so he can win?? YIKES. |
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,042
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jan 13, 2023 17:53:22 GMT
He does not sound marriage material, a parade of red flags. You realise you have not posted one redeeming characteristic about him.
Once they marry won't she be jointly responsible for the money spent on the open bar?
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jan 13, 2023 17:55:41 GMT
My mom & dad got married in the Catholic Church 50 years ago. My dad is Lutheran, my mom was Catholic. They had the wedding in her church, nut were not allowed to have a mass. They had the Lutheran Pastor there to bless the marriage. They were not going to continue as a Catholic couple, so they did not have to promise to raise any kids Catholic. If your DD was going to continue as Catholic, I would think there would be a lot more "rules."
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Post by flanz on Jan 13, 2023 18:00:18 GMT
I haven't read any of the responses...
To me the following quotes scream THIS IS NOT HUSBAND MATERIAL!!!
"... bf likes to create arguments just so he can win."
"DD's boyfriend is trying to stir the pot and hold her to a Catholic wedding. He said that he had to defend dd to his parents about all of this (which I know is bull. I know his parents)."
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,903
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Post by tracylynn on Jan 13, 2023 18:16:47 GMT
I can’t see your question through that forest of giant, waving red flags. In case you missed what myshelly said, repeating because this is important. This guy has red flags flying EVERWHERE. Someone upthread pointed this out too, but I want to repeat this part too - getting married in the Catholic church as a non-Catholic MAY require her to agree to allow the children to be brought up in the Catholic Church. That would be a hard no for me. Not because of the Catholic thing, just because I would never force my children into a religion. Period. And any Church that thinks that's ok is a problem for me. |
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Post by mom on Jan 13, 2023 18:32:47 GMT
If I were you, I’d slip the Priest $500 to not marry them. You’d come out ahead in the end, really.
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Post by shanniebananie on Jan 13, 2023 18:45:38 GMT
To answer some of your questions:
Only one person needs to be Catholic to marry in the Catholic Church and have your marriage blessed by a priest. However, both parties must agree to raise their family in the Catholic Church. If this is not going to happen, don't get married in the Catholic Church.
Yes, of course you will be required to make a donation to the Church to married in their facilities. Every church has operating expenses and will require a fee. "Sizable" is probably not accurate. $200-800 will probably be the range.
Couples will absolutely need to have pre-marital counseling by the Church. It is called Pre-Cana and it can be over several classes or an Engaged Encounter weekend.
Also, all Christian religions are an "offshoot" of the Roman Catholic Church, not vice-versa.
All that aside, your future son-in-law doesn't sound like a good mate for your daughter and needs to work a lot issues out, and that is much more important than what the Catholic Church will require for marriage.
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SweetieBsMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,767
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Jan 13, 2023 18:57:23 GMT
To answer some of your questions: Only one person needs to be Catholic to marry in the Catholic Church and have your marriage blessed by a priest. However, both parties must agree to raise their family in the Catholic Church. If this is not going to happen, don't get married in the Catholic Church. Yes, of course you will be required to make a donation to the Church to married in their facilities. Every church has operating expenses and will require a fee. "Sizable" is probably not accurate. $200-800 will probably be the range. Couples will absolutely need to have pre-marital counseling by the Church. It is called Pre-Cana and it can be over several classes or an Engaged Encounter weekend. Also, all Christian religions are an "offshoot" of the Roman Catholic Church, not vice-versa. All that aside, your future son-in-law doesn't sound like a good mate for your daughter and needs to work a lot issues out, and that is much more important than what the Catholic Church will require for marriage.  All of this. I was married in the Catholic Church, full mass. DH and I both Catholic. We did have to do pre-cana. We married a my parrish church: I went to the elementary school there, had first communion and confirmation there. DS was baptized there. DH's funeral was there. But from what you've said, getting married in a Catholic church is the least of their problems. As someone said, he's a walking red-flag and he sounds very immature (who starts arguments so they can win!?!?!, what a waste of energy!) |
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Post by amp on Jan 13, 2023 18:59:08 GMT
To answer some of your questions: Only one person needs to be Catholic to marry in the Catholic Church and have your marriage blessed by a priest. However, both parties must agree to raise their family in the Catholic Church. If this is not going to happen, don't get married in the Catholic Church. Yes, of course you will be required to make a donation to the Church to married in their facilities. Every church has operating expenses and will require a fee. "Sizable" is probably not accurate. $200-800 will probably be the range. Couples will absolutely need to have pre-marital counseling by the Church. It is called Pre-Cana and it can be over several classes or an Engaged Encounter weekend. Also, all Christian religions are an "offshoot" of the Roman Catholic Church, not vice-versa. All that aside, your future son-in-law doesn't sound like a good mate for your daughter and needs to work a lot issues out, and that is much more important than what the Catholic Church will require for marriage. Devout cradle Catholic here. Your response is 100% accurate and written much better than I would have done.  |
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Post by mikklynn on Jan 13, 2023 19:01:21 GMT
My nephew and his fiancee are both catholic. She wants to be married in the church. They are finding they must be members of the parish for a year and complete multiple classes before they can be married.
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Post by sideways on Jan 13, 2023 19:23:59 GMT
Couples will absolutely need to have pre-marital counseling by the Church. It is called Pre-Cana and it can be over several classes or an Engaged Encounter weekend.Also, all Christian religions are an "offshoot" of the Roman Catholic Church, not vice-versa. All that aside, your future son-in-law doesn't sound like a good mate for your daughter and needs to work a lot issues out, and that is much more important than what the Catholic Church will require for marriage. Has this changed? Is it church-wide? When we were married in 1994, we saw the priest three times. One of those times, we had to take some type of compatibility quiz. We couldn’t take it home to do it; we had to do it there. I thought it was interesting to see which things we were more compatible on than not, but other than that I don’t think that counseling did squat. We didn’t have any big issues going in, though. Not like the OP’s daughter. |
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Post by shanniebananie on Jan 13, 2023 19:35:29 GMT
Couples will absolutely need to have pre-marital counseling by the Church. It is called Pre-Cana and it can be over several classes or an Engaged Encounter weekend.Also, all Christian religions are an "offshoot" of the Roman Catholic Church, not vice-versa. All that aside, your future son-in-law doesn't sound like a good mate for your daughter and needs to work a lot issues out, and that is much more important than what the Catholic Church will require for marriage. Has this changed? Is it church-wide? When we were married in 1994, we saw the priest three times. One of those times, we had to take some type of compatibility quiz. We couldn’t take it home to do it; we had to do it there. I thought it was interesting to see which things we were more compatible on than not, but other than that I don’t think that counseling did squat. We didn’t have any big issues going in, though. Not like the OP’s daughter. I was married in 1995 and marriage preparation called Pre-Cana was a requirement in our diocese (Los Angeles). It was not conducted by a priest, but by several married couples who shared their experiences on many subjects. My own parents held lead these classes for years while I was growing up. Our discussions with our priest, which took place separately, focused mainly around our compatibility concerning religion in our marriage and making sure we were willing to raise our family in the Church. |
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Post by mom on Jan 13, 2023 20:15:10 GMT
Couples will absolutely need to have pre-marital counseling by the Church. It is called Pre-Cana and it can be over several classes or an Engaged Encounter weekend.Also, all Christian religions are an "offshoot" of the Roman Catholic Church, not vice-versa. All that aside, your future son-in-law doesn't sound like a good mate for your daughter and needs to work a lot issues out, and that is much more important than what the Catholic Church will require for marriage. Has this changed? Is it church-wide? When we were married in 1994, we saw the priest three times. One of those times, we had to take some type of compatibility quiz. We couldn’t take it home to do it; we had to do it there. I thought it was interesting to see which things we were more compatible on than not, but other than that I don’t think that counseling did squat. We didn’t have any big issues going in, though. Not like the OP’s daughter. I was married in the Catholic Church in 1999 (Texas) and while we only met with the Priest a few times, we had our counseling sessions with two couples for several weeks (months? I don’t recall) before ever meeting with the Priest. |
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Post by supersoda on Jan 13, 2023 20:26:46 GMT
Eek, what a crummy situation. But to actually answer your question, I (non Catholic) married my Catholic husband in the Catholic Church. We did not have a full mass. We did have to have counseling, which was a weekend retreat where they mostly told us not to use birth control and to raise our many children in the church.
I never intended to and did not convert. I did have to promise to raise my kids in the church, which I eventually reneged on once scandal hit our home church. My kids were all baptized in the church, though. It was important to my in laws, who are wonderful.
We paid the priest, but I don’t think we paid for the church. However, my stepfather attended the church and tithed religiously (ha!) and DHs family was very active in the diocese and friends with the priest.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jan 13, 2023 20:30:06 GMT
My dd isn't engaged yet but her boyfriend has bought a ring. When they started dating years ago, I guess they had a conversation about what they would like in a wedding. Her boyfriend is Catholic but doesn't go to mass. Doesn't even have a church that he "belongs" to. His extended family is large and most of them have gotten married in the church because it is "expected". She originally said she would consider all options but now doesn't want to do the whole Catholic mass, etc. My family is Muslim and Christian (I know Catholicism is an offshoot). DD's boyfriend is trying to stir the pot and hold her to a Catholic wedding. He said that he had to defend dd to his parents about all of this (which I know is bull. I know his parents). My dd has convinced her bf to go to counseling with her because bf likes to create arguments just so he can win. He does this with me as well but I shut him down. He thinks counseling is stupid. Why am I saying this? Don't you have to go through counseling through the church before you get married? Do you have to convert to be able to get married in the church? My dd has zero intention of converting. I know it is in name only but she doesn't believe in their practices and I don't think she should have to do this to appease him or his family. Also, don't you have to make a sizable donation to the church to be able to have the ceremony there? Her bf doesn't really have a grasp on how expensive weddings can be and DD wants to pay for the bulk of it. We will help but we cannot afford to pay for it alone. For example, her bf wants and open bar (which I won't pay for). DD told him that it is all on him to pay for that. DD is still getting her PhD and will be for the next 3 years so she can't really save anything. She gets a stipend but it comes out to $15/hour so we still pay for a lot for her. Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this? I have considered talking to his mom to get some idea of what is really going on. His parents love my dd.Sincerely curious, why would you talk to his parents? If they love your DD, they are going to encourage her to marry their son. If you think they are going to see what the son is doing is wrong/harmful, I doubt they will tell him to cut the crap or warn her to stay away. Have you had any conversations with your DD? It sounds like she is focusing on her studies, and had a conversation years ago - did another conversation happen bc he recently bought the ring? I guess my conversations would be with her, and pretty frank about expectations (hers, yours, his?) although that could backfire. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jan 13, 2023 20:34:11 GMT
To answer some of your questions: Only one person needs to be Catholic to marry in the Catholic Church and have your marriage blessed by a priest. However, both parties must agree to raise their family in the Catholic Church. If this is not going to happen, don't get married in the Catholic Church. Yes, of course you will be required to make a donation to the Church to married in their facilities. Every church has operating expenses and will require a fee. "Sizable" is probably not accurate. $200-800 will probably be the range. Couples will absolutely need to have pre-marital counseling by the Church. It is called Pre-Cana and it can be over several classes or an Engaged Encounter weekend. Also, all Christian religions are an "offshoot" of the Roman Catholic Church, not vice-versa.All that aside, your future son-in-law doesn't sound like a good mate for your daughter and needs to work a lot issues out, and that is much more important than what the Catholic Church will require for marriage. I also see it vice versa though too, those who worship Jesus Christ Christians and the Roman Catholic Church is just one type of church. But yes, it did start as Roman Catholic and then denominations broke away and formed. |
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Post by Monica* on Jan 13, 2023 20:35:48 GMT
I was married in 1995 and marriage preparation called Pre-Cana was a requirement in our diocese (Los Angeles). It was not conducted by a priest, but by several married couples who shared their experiences on many subjects. My own parents held lead these classes for years while I was growing up. Our discussions with our priest, which took place separately, focused mainly around our compatibility concerning religion in our marriage and making sure we were willing to raise our family in the Church. I was married in LA in 1995 also. October 7 at Corpus Christi Catholic Church in Pacific Palisades. Just curious where you were married! |
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All of this. I was married in the Catholic Church, full mass. DH and I both Catholic. We did have to do pre-cana. We married a my parrish church: I went to the elementary school there, had first communion and confirmation there. DS was baptized there. DH's funeral was there. 
