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Post by mammajamma on Jan 28, 2023 13:35:47 GMT
I take a hard line with my kids and toy guns. That is, guns are not toys. We do not play with guns, toys or real. I was raised this way by a strict dad on gun safety who was a veteran. I only had a sister. This wasn’t a huge issue in our childhood, being girls. I have a DD and DS (age7). I don’t know many parents who take this hard line approach to toy guns. My dad is teaching my kids about gun safety with a BB gun that is stored at his house. He is very serious about how and when to use a gun, how to handle it, hold it, etc. And my kids get these lectures.
My question is — what is the common ground with parents and toy guns? My son’s classmates have been meeting at the park after school once a week. The moms bring toy guns for the boys. They march around with these guns. Sometimes wearing camo outfits and even camo face coverings. My son wants to play with his buddies. He also knows our family rules and respects those. I see the awkwardness he may feel as the boy mob marches around with guns and he just tags along. I have mentioned to a few of the moms that my kids are not allowed to play with guns of any kind. I have witnessed my son telling his buddies, “I can not play with guns of any kind.” A few moms justified to me how they were against guns, but that these were bright colored toys and they had lost that parenting battle. They told me that their only rule was not to point the guns at others.
But I see these boys marching around the park as snipers while the parents socialize. My older DD witnessed yesterday one boy pointing the gun in his own face and pulling the trigger. My DS went up to him and said, “don’t point a gun at your face or anyone else.” The boy looked at him and did it repeatedly.
Friends are hard for us to come by lately. I don’t know how to deal with this honoring our own family rules. I hate to be a snitch to the kids parents. I don’t know that I can say anything more to the parents. I have told them our own family rules. Yet each week the kids come after school and the parents have the guns in their cars and go straight to the park.
With the societal problem we have these days pertaining to violence and guns, I’m really surprised this group of families accepts this. But maybe I’m way overboard. Because we are the ones with some hard lines.
Is there some other toy that I could have my son bring that would be a hit? And maybe be fun enough for the guns to fall to the wayside?
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mich5481
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by mich5481 on Jan 28, 2023 13:45:10 GMT
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Post by smasonnc on Jan 28, 2023 13:52:36 GMT
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but little boys and guns are inseparable. I had the same rule as you did. I bought my son legos, educational toys, and the latest and coolest non-gun toys, but when I bought him a map puzzle and he used Florida to shoot with, I knew that battle was lost.
That said, letting kids march around in camo playing snipers is just weird. I would seek a different mom group. The teen years are going to be a nightmare if they've given up making the rules in elementary school.
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Post by bunnyhug on Jan 28, 2023 14:30:54 GMT
I'm Canadian, so we're different from the US in terms of guns and their acceptance as a day to day 'thing', but I don't think my kids ever had a toy gun ... except a couple of Nerf ones, I guess, but I pretty much refused to buy those because I got tired really quickly of finding Nerf darts in my hanging light fixtures! We did have a bunch of light sabres because my kids loved Star Wars, but they also loved the Justice League and other super heroes who don't really use guns. Toys that got a ton of use--cars of any variety, Lego, castle and figures, dh's old office supplies, skateboards and bikes, anything hockey--from ministicks to road hockey to their old hockey sticks that weren't used on the ice any more--and golf, baseball, and assorted other sports.
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Post by librarylady on Jan 28, 2023 14:38:55 GMT
I was determined that DS not play with guns.....even though I grew up on a farm and we had guns used to protect our dairy cows when necessary, kill snakes etc. I am pretty skilled with a gun (or was the last time I shot one).
We were taught gun safety --it was drilled into us about never pointing a gun at a person, etc.
When I was about 10 a boy in our community accidentally killed his brother, so that really made us more aware
of the danger of guns.
When DS was about 3 he chewed his toast into a shape and began to act out shooting with his toast and I realized my battle was lost.
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Post by monklady123 on Jan 28, 2023 14:48:13 GMT
I'm happy to say that where I live -- the bluest of the blue areas of Northern Virginia -- kids never had toy guns at the park and never marched around pretending to be snipers while their parents watched.  And I'm quite sure that none of ds's friends had a toy gun because no one I knew was in favor of any guns. Of course the kids pretended sometimes -- with their fingers or with Florida from the USA puzzle (lol) or whatever. But they weren't encouraged to continue with that line of play. And our school was always very strict. Any kid caught pretending to have a gun went straight to the principal to have a chat with her. As they got a bit older light sabers became the weapon of choice.  That never bothered me as much as a toy gun would have because light sabers are pretend and guns are not. As long as they didn't try using the light sabers on each other of course.  |
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Post by imkat on Jan 28, 2023 14:55:04 GMT
Sorry that you are facing this. My sons had super soakers and maybe nerf guns, all brightly colored.
I can't picture what these toy guns would look like. Do they look like the real thing?
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Post by mammajamma on Jan 28, 2023 15:19:20 GMT
OP here. A few responses to comments / questions but I’m not going to use the quotes because frankly I don’t know how to quote snippets from multiple posts. Ha.
IMO my battle would not be lost if I saw my son using a stick, toast, puzzle piece or whatever to act out a gun briefly. If it became a repeated thing, I would have a talk with him. My dad is teaching my kids to use a REAL gun and I’m fine with that. I don’t have a problem with guns, per se, used in the right context, safety, and respect for life. If my son finds some unrelated object the substitute for an imaginary gun is different than me buying or owning a toy gun….and bringing it to a public park is a completely different level… IMO.
Yes the guns the kids bring are colorful. I give them that. They are large. One has a snake mouth on the end but it’s clearly designed to be a toy gun. Trigger, etc. I just saw a wanted video for an armed burgulary and he had a lilac purple colored pistol. So, I’m not sure that just because a gun is colorful means anything these days.
The pandemic showed me a lot of people have a hard time using self restraint and will power. I’m not debating my family’s rules. I think of this as just one other test of self restraint. I tell my kids all the time, “what is right is not always popular. What is popular is not always right.” But, I would also like to give them different tools to live in this world when it’s hard to be the lone person living an ideal out.
People have been crying out for answers to our violence, mass shootings, gun accident problem in the US. I’m not sure how I can help change such a huge problem. But I can raise two children to respect boundaries and do difficult things in the midst of others who may not be doing that. I expect they make mistakes through the process. But that doesn’t mean I give up completely. We will talk about that. They will be forgiven, given a hug.
We know someone right now battling through an accidental shot to the head. A family of hunters, who presumably would know gun safety. My kids are asking daily of his progress. We talk about the things that could have gone wrong. I don’t shield them from the dangers of guns. And I’m very proud of my 7 year old that he can tell his buddy not to point the gun at himself or someone. This is the type of courage that needs to be modeled and normalized for him. Because one day, it might not be a toy gun. Or it might be a drunk friend getting behind the wheel. Or many other situations that he needs to speak up.
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by iowgirl on Jan 28, 2023 15:21:21 GMT
My kids are grown & flown, but I had some fairly strict rules where it came to guns, both toys and real. My kids were taught how to use firearms at an early age, and the strict safety that comes with it. Guns are ALWAYS locked in a safe, with ammo locked in a different safe. When in transport, ALWAYS in a case.
None of my kids really ever wanted to hunt, other than a few pheasant hunts. We are lucky enough to own a great deal of prime grass/timber land that we run cows on. They spent a great deal of their childhood running those grounds on foot and horseback, and also building fence and checking cows. I just don't think they have the 'hunting gene' in them, but they love the outdoors.
That said, toy guns always bothered me a bit. I 100% expected them to treat them as if they were real. They had to have the bright orange tip, indicating they were toys (although there were a few old cap guns from grandparents days that didn't). They were to NEVER point a toy gun at a person. Playing that you were shooting another (real) person was not OK.
My son absolutely love playing 'army', and so did his friends. Even if they had no access to a toy gun, the thumb and pointer finger worked just fine.
I guess I'd rather see them out playing pretend, with some discussion on gun safety and the realities of it all, than parked in front of a video game absolutely slaughtering everything.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,190
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Post by pilcas on Jan 28, 2023 15:26:44 GMT
I absolutely do not think boys and guns are inseparable. I think it depends on culture. I never bought toy guns for my son nor was he ever gifted one in all the childhood birthday parties he had. He did have a nerf gun. I never saw kids in the park play with toy guns either. It might very well be a matter of where you live.
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garcia5050
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Posts: 2,773
Location: So. Calif.
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Post by garcia5050 on Jan 28, 2023 16:11:17 GMT
Our city has classes for kids starting at age 4. There is also a local YMCA with different kid classes, and we put him in both the city classes and the Y. I’m talking guitar, drawing, tumbling, then swimming and basketball. DS enjoyed sports, but wasn’t into it in a way that consumed. We found a non competitive league which played different sports all year round, and he made good friends through that organization.
He did play guns at some point. Like others, we had nerf guns and super soakers. But it didn’t get weird, like wearing cammo or anything like that.
Are there no community classes available to you?
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Post by epeanymous on Jan 28, 2023 16:11:47 GMT
I absolutely do not think boys and guns are inseparable. I think it depends on culture. I never bought toy guns for my son nor was he ever gifted one in all the childhood birthday parties he had. He did have a nerf gun. I never saw kids in the park play with toy guns either. It might very well be a matter of where you live. Yeah, toy guns definitely aren't common in the groups my kids have been in and I don't know that I have seen kids playing with them at the park. I am sure a ton of this is regional/cultural. We do have soaker toys for the summer, but the ones we have look like giant push pops. OP, I don't have a strong line about things like nerf guns or whatever, but the camo wear and constant focus on toy guns you describe would be off-putting for sure. Maybe a drone or sports balls or something like that as an alternative? |
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Post by Merge on Jan 28, 2023 16:21:48 GMT
Two of my closest friends have all boys and I’ve never seen any of them play like they’re shooting a gun at someone. They have nerf guns and those are only shot away from people. I don’t think boys playing guns are an inevitability.
It sounds, unfortunately, like some of your mom group friends are raising their kids in a way that doesn’t align with your values. Only you can decide if you want to keep spending time with them. You won’t be able to change them, so it’s all on you.
One thing you can do is keep encouraging your kid to be vocal in objecting to gun play. “I don’t like playing guns; let’s do something else.” Or “Let me know when you’re done with the gun part and we can do something more fun.” A little gentle and positive peer pressure can work wonders.
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Post by Merge on Jan 28, 2023 16:26:52 GMT
Oh and you didn’t say how old your son is, but the elementary boys where I teach are most intrigued by a soccer ball or a football. What if you show up with a few of those? Or a skateboard (with appropriate safety equipment).
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Post by gillyp on Jan 28, 2023 16:38:11 GMT
I absolutely do not think boys and guns are inseparable. I think it depends on culture. I never bought toy guns for my son nor was he ever gifted one in all the childhood birthday parties he had. He did have a nerf gun. I never saw kids in the park play with toy guns either. It might very well be a matter of where you live.  UK dweller and my kids never owned a toy gun neither did any of their friends. They were just not a thing where we were. |
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Post by littlemama on Jan 28, 2023 17:06:18 GMT
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but little boys and guns are inseparable. I had the same rule as you did. I bought my son legos, educational toys, and the latest and coolest non-gun toys, but when I bought him a map puzzle and he used Florida to shoot with, I knew that battle was lost. That said, letting kids march around in camo playing snipers is just weird. I would seek a different mom group. The teen years are going to be a nightmare if they've given up making the rules in elementary school. This is 100% untrue. It is our responsibility as adults to teach them better. We did not allow our ds to play with toy guns or anything acting as a gun. The camo sniper thing is disturbing and my kid wouldnt be playing e With them |
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
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Post by RosieKat on Jan 29, 2023 0:22:03 GMT
We never bought toy guns with the exception of a couple of Nerf guns and water guns a time or two. We figured that yeah, kids will often create guns, but that's different from seeming to condone it. We don't own guns but my dad does and keeps it locked, ammo separately, etc. and also from the very beginning drilled into my kids that if they ever see one lying around anywhere, including at his house, not to touch it, tell an adult ASAP, etc.
The camo and snipers thing is a bit extreme, especially in this current environment. I love the idea of channeling it towards capture the flag or something.
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Post by disneypal on Jan 29, 2023 0:24:13 GMT
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but little boys and guns are inseparable. I agree...I've never been a fan of toy guns and made a point of not buying any for my godson, as did his parents. Yet, when we threw him a birthday party and he invited about 12 other 8 year old kids, boys and girls, after the cake and ice cream, they all went into the yard and played cops and robbers and used their fingers or sticks as guns. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jan 29, 2023 0:44:49 GMT
My DH is a hunter and had been on sport shooting leagues for years so we do have rifles in the house, all locked up with ammo locked up separately. Aside from the “push pop” type water shooters we have at the lake we have never had any toy guns. My sister’s kid destroyed their brand new flat screen tv by shooting at a bird on it with an Airsoft gun when he was 12. 🙄 Kids can be really dumb like that.
I think if the kids at the park can’t be redirected to some other game or activity (football, soccer, hackey sack, frisbee golf, parkour, whatever) then it’s time to sign your kid up to try some different activities after school where he can meet some new, hopefully more like-minded friends.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jan 29, 2023 0:57:50 GMT
I resisted gun play for a long time, including our stint on an Army base when DS was 4-6 and every little boy had some sort of gun. We bought lightsabers for others to play with and tried to channel the play into that. We did have super soakers, but it wasn't a huge thing with our kids. But DS still made a bat into a gun.
Then DS was bullied and physically assaulted when he was in middle school. We worked a lot with the guidance counselor who worked with DS with behaviors that could make him a target. DS brought his own lunch to school and it was recommended that he buy his lunches. He didn't watch TV during the week and we allowed 30 minutes of screen time a day. And we gave in to gun play.
Airsoft guns were big in the community and about once a month the boys would get together and battle it out. I didn't agree with it, but gave in to let DS be "more like the other kids" and bought a full face mask trying to make it as safe as possible. This was in a fairly affluential community just outside of Boston and in a school that I really, really liked. Even to this day, I'm amazed that this was a thing.
I have no doubt whatsoever that if this was going on now, it would never be condoned or encouraged.I know that I would never have given in in today's gun climate. I don't know if school shootings were that prevalent at the time, but this wasn't a gun loving sort of community. It really does bother me that I gave in, but I'm also happy to say that 15 years later, DS is a pacifist to the extreme and I'm positive that he turned out ok. Does that make the play ok? I don't think so. At the time, I was just trying to help my kid blend in.
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Post by katlady on Jan 29, 2023 1:04:49 GMT
So, growing up we had toy guns. I am old enough that our toy guns looked like western guns, with a holster, and some were even cap guns. I also enjoyed going to Disneyland and shooting the "rifles" at their shooting arcade. We never had real guns in the house, and my family never did anything involving guns like hunting. Even though we played with guns as a kid, I've never had a desire to own one. Maybe because I am a female, maybe because my family did not own any.
I agree with others that the camo thing is strange. Are there other group activities/classes in your area that you can enroll your son in? Does your son still want to go to the park? Maybe something like a toy drone/airplane would attract the attention of some of the other boys. I like though how your son stands up for himself and doesn't give in the peer pressure.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
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Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Jan 29, 2023 1:12:09 GMT
We have real guns in the house (properly locked up at all times) and my kids both have play guns and bows and cross bows and all that.
The play guns are brightly colored and shoot nerf darts and suction cup arrows. All the neighborhood kids have play guns. We live rural and that's just how it is around here. It doesn't bother me.
They do NOT dress in camo and paint their faces and all that tho. IMO that's a bit much.
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Post by maryland on Jan 29, 2023 1:51:41 GMT
My kids never played with toy guns and never showed an interest. Their friends didn't either. I guess just not a thing in our friend group.
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Deleted
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Nov 1, 2024 16:32:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2023 2:16:35 GMT
I never gave my boys toy guns that looked realistic. They had enough nerf guns to arm a platoon though. The closest thing to a realistic gun was a 1:32 key chain of a Colt revolver.
They did learn gun safety around 7 years old. Dad took them target shooting after they were 16 with his pistols. One kid made these ridiculous guns from Lego. They weren't functional in any shape or form, just a generic gun shape. They had nerf wars here and there but mostly enjoyed breaking my blinds and shooting Lego guys off their desks.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
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Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jan 29, 2023 2:28:23 GMT
When ods was born I was adamant no gun toys. That lasted a few years but eventually super soakers and nerf guns became a regular thing. We even have a rubberband pistol and a pop gun rifle around here somewhere (both are wood). None of those remotely resemble a real gun. By the time he was 12ish, and had already taken a hunter safety course, he wore me down and we allowed an air soft gun. But it was (and still is) kept in the family room closet and he was only allowed to use it with permission and under certain circumstances (target practice, with proper safety glasses, etc). The novelty wore off pretty quickly and it hasn’t been touched in many years. Yds has never expressed interest in either that or learning to hunt.
I do find boys dressing in camo and shooting play guns at each other at a park weird. Paintball battles I could understand (aren’t those normally done at a special place though, not a public park?), nerf wars I get, water guns seems like typical boy stuff, but it doesn’t sounds like that’s what they’re using here.
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Post by mom on Jan 29, 2023 2:33:44 GMT
My kids are grown & flown, but I had some fairly strict rules where it came to guns, both toys and real. My kids were taught how to use firearms at an early age, and the strict safety that comes with it. Guns are ALWAYS locked in a safe, with ammo locked in a different safe. When in transport, ALWAYS in a case. None of my kids really ever wanted to hunt, other than a few pheasant hunts. We are lucky enough to own a great deal of prime grass/timber land that we run cows on. They spent a great deal of their childhood running those grounds on foot and horseback, and also building fence and checking cows. I just don't think they have the 'hunting gene' in them, but they love the outdoors. That said, toy guns always bothered me a bit. I 100% expected them to treat them as if they were real. They had to have the bright orange tip, indicating they were toys (although there were a few old cap guns from grandparents days that didn't). They were to NEVER point a toy gun at a person. Playing that you were shooting another (real) person was not OK. My son absolutely love playing 'army', and so did his friends. Even if they had no access to a toy gun, the thumb and pointer finger worked just fine. I guess I'd rather see them out playing pretend, with some discussion on gun safety and the realities of it all, than parked in front of a video game absolutely slaughtering everything. I'll just copy and paste what you said. This is how we raised our boys -- though both boys were big hunters growing up. Not so much now though. One rule we had for our play guns (besides the ones you've listed) is they were never allowed to take them from away from our home. Want to play Army in the back yard? Go for it. But we aren't taking a toy gun to any park, etc. And we definitely were not dressing up in camouflage while at the park. |
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Post by natscraps on Jan 29, 2023 2:51:05 GMT
We are in a slightly similar situation with DS7. In general guns are not permitted. He does have a pair of small see through water guns. DH has an airsoft rifle locked in a gun safe in our locked detached garage with the pellets stored separately. DS doesn’t even know he has it. We have taught him gun safety though and if he sees one laying out even if looks like a toy, he is to not touch it and tell a grown up. He has also reprimanded other kids for pointing at the face.
Lately our problem is Roblox. DS is getting bullied because he isn’t allowed to play. We won’t allow him to play open online games that have chat features with other players. We feel it’s basic online safety for kids. We also do not allow games where you hurt people. He’s been fighting us hard over this.
I just don’t get parents who promote violence in today’s world.
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Post by smasonnc on Jan 29, 2023 3:09:33 GMT
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but little boys and guns are inseparable. I had the same rule as you did. I bought my son legos, educational toys, and the latest and coolest non-gun toys, but when I bought him a map puzzle and he used Florida to shoot with, I knew that battle was lost. That said, letting kids march around in camo playing snipers is just weird. I would seek a different mom group. The teen years are going to be a nightmare if they've given up making the rules in elementary school. This is 100% untrue. It is our responsibility as adults to teach them better. We did not allow our ds to play with toy guns or anything acting as a gun. The camo sniper thing is disturbing and my kid wouldnt be playing e With them We weren't draconian about toy guns because forbidding something altogether makes it more interesting to kids. Somehow, we managed to raise kids who are productive citizens and don't own guns. |
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Post by Zee on Jan 29, 2023 4:11:15 GMT
My kids had nerf guns and water guns and DS had a BB gun when he was a bit older but I would not be cool with dressing as snipers running around the park pretending to shoot people and each other. That's disturbing.
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Post by silverlining on Jan 29, 2023 4:24:21 GMT
The kids wearing camo and pretending to be snipers would creep me out. I also think that could be scary to other kids at the park. I keep thinking of that terrible shooting of Tamir Rice, a 12-year old who was holding a toy gun. A police officer shot him within 2 seconds of getting out of his patrol car without processing that he was a child with a toy weapon.
Maybe these other families just don't share your values and concern about gun safety. I would be concerned that they aren't teaching their kids about gun safety the way that you are, and might even have guns in their homes that aren't stored correctly.
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That never bothered me as much as a toy gun would have because light sabers are pretend and guns are not. As long as they didn't try using the light sabers on each other of course. 
UK dweller and my kids never owned a toy gun neither did any of their friends. They were just not a thing where we were. 
