craftywendy
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May 29, 2018 14:56:21 GMT
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Post by craftywendy on Feb 6, 2023 17:23:30 GMT
Another store is closing, this time its the Paper Bunny in Las Vegas, the store owner who is super lovely was not able to secure a buyer for the store and unfortunately the store is now closing. I sit here wondering what the root cause of physical stores closing is and what we as crafters can do to save these wonderful places? Personally I visited her shop a few times, I am not a local but tried to visit when possible and the store was very nice and stocked. I guess it just made me sad to see another store go since it makes me feel like, is this a sign of the times? It seems more and more I am seeing more posts about having too much stuff or everything looking the same or are we just becoming disinterested as crafters? Anyway just wanted to hear your opinions on this?  |
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Post by mom on Feb 6, 2023 17:33:22 GMT
It's hard to make rent ($$$$) selling paper at .99/sheet, much less make a profit. Add in $15/hr wage and more, then there is no profit.
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craftywendy
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May 29, 2018 14:56:21 GMT
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Post by craftywendy on Feb 6, 2023 17:36:51 GMT
It's hard to make rent ($$$$) selling paper at .99/sheet, much less make a profit. Add in $15/hr wage and more, then there is no profit. Yeah but that is part of doing business. Stores back in the day had the same overhead and did just fine. I recently visited a store in Iowa that has 10 employees.... |
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Post by mom on Feb 6, 2023 17:45:27 GMT
It's hard to make rent ($$$$) selling paper at .99/sheet, much less make a profit. Add in $15/hr wage and more, then there is no profit. Yeah but that is part of doing business. Stores back in the day had the same overhead and did just fine. I recently visited a store in Iowa that has 10 employees.... There's not a chance they had the same overhead. Rent is sky rocketing. Wages are higher. Taxes are higher. Yes, they had overhead but it's not like it is today and while paper has gone up in price, it hasn't gone up at the same rate as other expenses. They can't pay rent, pay employees, utilities and keep all the lines that everyone wants and only charge $1.00/paper. It's mathematically impossible. And then customers are used to getting deals from Hobby Lobby, Michaels and Joanns for the exact same paper the LSS is selling. If a customer can get the exact same paper 10/$1 at Joanns then they aren't going to want to pay $1/sheet at the LSS. Places like ACOT and SB.COM can make a profit because they have a wider client base than just a local store selling to its residents and they most likely get better costs on their products by ordering more. |
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Post by kmage on Feb 6, 2023 17:45:32 GMT
I recently visited a store in Iowa that has 10 employees.... I've wondered this myself...is it where the market is more robust? Eau Claire, WI boasts 2 thriving scrapbook stores, and unless things have changed, San Diego CA has none. Metro Twin Cities MN-ish has 1 (Anchor Paper) and it's great, but it's part of a larger business and they don't offer crops. It just seems really hit or miss. I sometimes get the Scrapbook and Cards today magazine and it seems like the addresses of stores in the back is so small. I know it is who chooses to advertise in there but still. |
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Post by kmage on Feb 6, 2023 17:48:11 GMT
There's not a chance they had the same overhead. Rent is sky rocking. Wages are higher. Yes, they had overhead but it's not like it is today and while paper has gone up in price, it hasn't gone up at the same rate as other expenses. Totally true. I was friends with a store owner that closed not that long ago and she (the owner) had to also work at Target nights to make extra $$, as she literally could not pay herself a living wage. |
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craftywendy
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May 29, 2018 14:56:21 GMT
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Post by craftywendy on Feb 6, 2023 17:50:10 GMT
Yeah but that is part of doing business. Stores back in the day had the same overhead and did just fine. I recently visited a store in Iowa that has 10 employees.... There's not a chance they had the same overhead. Rent is sky rocketing. Wages are higher. Taxes are higher. Yes, they had overhead but it's not like it is today and while paper has gone up in price, it hasn't gone up at the same rate as other expenses. They can't pay rent, pay employees, utilities and keep all the lines that everyone wants and only charge $1.00/paper. It's mathematically impossible. And then customers are used to getting deals from Hobby Lobby, Michaels and Joanns for the exact same paper the LSS is selling. If a customer can get the exact same paper 10/$1 at Joanns then they aren't going to want to pay $1/sheet at the LSS. Places like ACOT and SB.COM can make a profit because they have a wider client base than just a local store selling to its residents and they most likely get better costs on their products by ordering more. My point was that overhead has always been a presence for a physical business, that part of doing business has not changed. A lot of products have skyrocketed in price - I remember when thinlits Tim Holtz dies used to be $12.99 and $14.99 now they are $34.99. So products have gone up in price, perhaps also our industry is stagnant and to your response regarding pricing, I think that is exactly my point. Us as crafters love a deal - yet we want to still have a place like a LSS and crop/take classes but prefer to pay 10/$1 instead of buying it at the store itself. Not saying everyone does but most do, and in turn is this killing the LSS? Making it harder for stores to survive and in turn we end up with just big box? |
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craftywendy
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May 29, 2018 14:56:21 GMT
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Post by craftywendy on Feb 6, 2023 17:51:57 GMT
I recently visited a store in Iowa that has 10 employees.... I've wondered this myself...is it where the market is more robust? Eau Claire, WI boasts 2 thriving scrapbook stores, and unless things have changed, San Diego CA has none. Metro Twin Cities MN-ish has 1 (Anchor Paper) and it's great, but it's part of a larger business and they don't offer crops. It just seems really hit or miss. I sometimes get the Scrapbook and Cards today magazine and it seems like the addresses of stores in the back is so small. I know it is who chooses to advertise in there but still. Rents may be slightly less in the mid-west perhaps than in say California or Nevada, but even then I do think that if this industry is still a billion dollar industry - where is the money going? Are people just buying stuff online? |
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craftymom101
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Post by craftymom101 on Feb 6, 2023 17:56:36 GMT
I think fewer people are scrapbooking now than pre-recession ('08-'09). I lived in a small town in the PNW from 2005-2009 that had four scrapbook stores within 45 minutes (driving); now that area has zero scrapbook stores. The recession reduced discretionary spending for a lot of people and hobbies are the first thing to go... and I think a lot of people gave up the hobby permanently. I'm certainly not an expert in finance, and I think a lot of the factors others have mentioned are certainly contributing to the decline in scrapbook stores, as well.
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Post by grammadee on Feb 6, 2023 18:04:43 GMT
It's hard to make rent ($$$$) selling paper at .99/sheet, much less make a profit. Add in $15/hr wage and more, then there is no profit.
One problem is that the manufacturers and big online giants are underselling the local stores. If we want to keep them in business, we need to be prepared to pay more than 99 cents per sheet of paper. Every time a crafter looks away from one of these small brick & mortar shops and orders from a cheaper source on line , that crafter is putting another nail in the boards across the doors and windows of a LSS> |
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scrappymeg
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Sept 18, 2020 22:59:35 GMT
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Post by scrappymeg on Feb 6, 2023 18:14:32 GMT
While I'm sure there are scrapbooking/crafting industry specific reasons for this as well, in general, I think it is just a further reflection of the changes in people's shopping habits. I went to the mall for the first time in a long time yesterday, and I was really surprised by the number of empty storefronts and the departure of some major, major retailers. This is not a mall in an area of decline, either. It's a wealthy area. People have become accustomed to shopping online, and this was just further fueled by the pandemic. Unless I absolutely need something that same day, I will wait a couple of days to have something dropped off at my door.
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Post by Linda on Feb 6, 2023 18:20:51 GMT
It seems more and more I am seeing more posts about having too much stuff or everything looking the same or are we just becoming disinterested as crafters? I think, like any hobby, as people stay involved longer, they acquire a stash. And many of those who continued to scrap through and post-recession, have now been scrapping for 20-ish or more years. That's a lot of stash. And that group is getting older also...when I started in 2002, I had a toddler and a schoolkid. I now have 2 adult children (22 and 31) and a teen (16). We're not retirement age yet but many scrappers are or will be soon -that group is starting to downsize their houses and belongings -they are often also on more fixed incomes with less discretionary spending money. We're also more aware of how much space albums take up. And of course digital scrapbooking has taken off in popularity. Back in its heyday, loads of people were discovering scrapbooking and entering the hobby. They didn't have tools or stash and so they bought and bought and bought...but now there are many less people starting to scrap - especially paper scrapping. And I agree with everyone who has mentioned increased overhead and the big blockstores/big online stores undercutting prices |
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craftywendy
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May 29, 2018 14:56:21 GMT
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Post by craftywendy on Feb 6, 2023 18:22:07 GMT
It's hard to make rent ($$$$) selling paper at .99/sheet, much less make a profit. Add in $15/hr wage and more, then there is no profit.
One problem is that the manufacturers and big online giants are underselling the local stores. If we want to keep them in business, we need to be prepared to pay more than 99 cents per sheet of paper. Every time a crafter looks away from one of these small brick & mortar shops and orders from a cheaper source on line , that crafter is putting another nail in the boards across the doors and windows of a LSS> This is exactly what I am referring to, thanks for saying this grammadee. We all love a deal but we refuse to support LSS. I have been in crops/classes at LSS where people will leave the store to go to Michaels/HL to buy adhesives, brushes etc. just to save a few bucks while the store literally has it all. It drives me nuts. |
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jediannie
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Jun 30, 2014 3:19:06 GMT
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Post by jediannie on Feb 6, 2023 18:25:41 GMT
What mom said is absolutely correct. There is no way you can make money selling $1 paper with store rents, employee costs, utilities, etc. I know my local stores are owned by people who are not reliant on the income generated from the store, they have a spouse that has a very well paying job so they don't have to worry if the store makes money. Their ideal month is when they break even. I'm in the SF Bay Area and our local minimum wage is $15.50/hour depending on where you are in the Bay Area. My city is $17.95. The store in my city is a combo handmade craft store and they sell stuff mostly for card making. The people who make crafts to sell in the store have to work a minimum amount of hours in order to have a booth in the store. That's how the owner gets around paying the workers. She does have one part time employee that doesn't have a booth and she gets paid minimum wage. |
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Post by Linda on Feb 6, 2023 18:52:00 GMT
We all love a deal but we refuse to support LSS I would love to support a LSS - there just aren't any left to support. I switched to the big box stores and online shopping when they all closed (I did shop at Lifetime Moments online as well back then but that was also a small business). There's a HL here but it didn't open until after the LSSes both closed. I think M's came in right before the 2nd one closed - but it's gone already also. |
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Post by judyc on Feb 6, 2023 19:49:40 GMT
I'm with Linda - I would support a LSS if we had one. We've had around 8 in the metropolitan area since 1999, with the last one closing 2 or 3 years ago. Now I primarily support scrapbook.com, occasionally other online SB sites as well. I have occasionally purchased at HL and M's over the years, but they were never my first choice for scrapbook supplies because they don't sell brands I like, but I can pick up adhesive, stamp pads, etc. rather than place an online order for one or two items. I do agree with the theory that it's hard for a LSS to thrive due to factors such as the (low) cost of their merchandise compared to the overhead to keep a brick and mortar store in business, as well as the number of scrapbookers currently scrapbooking (I know a few that took up the hobby, but later dropped it), and the fact that active scrapbookers, especially those that have been scrapbooking for years (like me)  have a large inventory of supplies (AKA stash) |
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Post by honeypea on Feb 6, 2023 19:58:41 GMT
I think there’s a lot going on with this situation, a lot already mentioned.
- I think scrapping population has declined. I jumped in the game circa 1996, a couple years before marriage and several years before kids. In this time period I had a lot of in person friends (10+) also scrapbooking avidly. All these years later, I’m the only one still going.
- I think the digital age booming impacted memory keeping. Digital cameras led to photo books being a really easy way to document physically. Most of my friends transitioned to just ordering photo books from Shutterfly, Chat Books, etc.
- Social Media made memory keeling just fully online really easy. So many people don’t even bother to order physical prints of photo books, they’re perfectly happy with Instagram and Facebook holding their memories.
- lots of people think scrapbooking is something you do “for the kids” and as their kids grow up they drop the hobby. I bet a lot of people who came into scrapbooking during that 90s boom, if they hung in there, are drifting away as their kids are now leaving.
- even within that “for the kids” demographic, people are having kids later and fewer of them. I was starting to have kids during the “four is the new three” era, and it definitely seems that young families are choosing to have fewer kids these days. Less kids, less scrapbooking stuff overall? I dunno, this one could be reaching. When I think of younger moms who scrapbook - like Krystal Idunate, they all have just two kids. I can’t think of many young families with 4+ kids who scrapbook.
- economic stuff is absolutely a contributor. My husband works in a niche industry, a sales rep for a large corporation, he travels all over the west coast through to Montana/Idaho range - do a LARGE area, representing very urban to very rural areas - and the crunch of raising costs affects them all. The competition with big box online sellers is HARD. A lot of them eek by, and the ones who manage the best have been in their locations for so long they own the building. If they had early string success they’re positioned to ride this current storm, but the folks who don’t have that advantage can’t make it work.
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breetheflea
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Location: PNW
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Post by breetheflea on Feb 6, 2023 20:42:43 GMT
Between moving to my city in 2004 and when I started really scrapbooking (2009) all the scrapbook stores closed... We had one briefly in 2010-2012ish maybe, but the owner's son was diagnosed with something, and she was trying to raise money having used supply garage sales ( I donated!), but she couldn't do it.
I'd support a physical store if we had one... Craft Warehouse (local chain) is less than a mile from my house, but they aren't a dedicated LSS, and only carry a few brands (Echo Park and Doodlebug mostly.) I used to buy OA there... those were the days.
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Post by AussieMeg on Feb 6, 2023 21:15:54 GMT
I can only speak about what's happening in my country, so I'm not sure if it's relevant there. My SIL owns her own business (not craft related) and her rent has increased an insane amount over the last few years. She just moved to a new shop that will save her $70,000 per year. Add to that the insanely rising costs of electricity, and it makes it hard (in some cases impossible) to make a profit.
Someone else close to me owns a business that is in the craft industry, and she barely makes enough to pay herself a living wage. That's mainly due to the rising rents and utilities, as well as other non-work related living expenses such as food and petrol and mortgage rates. In most cases, craft items have not increased at the same rate as rent/electricity/rates etc, so that eats into their profit margin. If craft products did increase by the same percentage as everything else, nobody would be buying.
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Post by 950nancy on Feb 6, 2023 21:18:42 GMT
Our LSS has limited hours. I think she is open 4 hours/6 days a week except Friday she's open 12-6. She's almost always there by herself. She's been open for 28 years, I believe. She does a FB live every Tuesday and will put new product online and probably has 50+ items each week with the quantity. Then people respond to the live in comments and she sells a ton this way. One lady will put her name in for at least 20 items per week. So she does a mix of online and in store sales. She is probably 10-15% higher than other stores online, but I like to support her anyway.
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Post by mbanda on Feb 6, 2023 21:25:23 GMT
I would also support a LSS if I had one near me. I live in the Dallas area and I have to drive an hour if I want to go to a physical store. I usually only go to that store twice a year when I am at my retreat as the retreat is in the same outlying town. Otherwise I only have Michael's, Joann, Hobby Lobby or Tuesday Morning within 30 minutes of me - none of these would be my first choice for supplies. I end up buying most of my paper from conventions. We have the two major ones that come through our area each year and I get a lot of my stash from there. I've moved to online shopping from scrapbook.com, Simon says stamp or Amazon. I also agree with craftymom101 that less new people are coming to the hobby. As long time scrapbookers we likely already have so much stuff so we're probably buying less. |
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Post by AussieMeg on Feb 6, 2023 21:45:24 GMT
Well this is quite timely..... I'm currently listening to a talkback radio station at the moment, and they are talking about rising costs for business owners. A man who owns a pizza shop said that the price of a box of cheese had increased by $35 over 20 years up until 2020. But in the last three years it has increased by $59. And shop rent has gone up too.
Another business owner said that there have been four price increases for key ingredients in the last year, but they have only increased prices once. They have had to absorb those price rises. He said that he owns the shop, and if he was having to pay rent he would have closed by now. He is surrounded by empty shops, so many businesses have closed.
Another business owner said that his electricity bill used to be $1500, his last two bills have been around $2300. How many extra pieces of cardstock or stamps would you have to sell to cover that increase?
And of course all of those increases are hitting households as well, so our discretionary spending decreases.
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caangel
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Location: So Cal
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Post by caangel on Feb 6, 2023 22:49:46 GMT
I think the fact that Costco has closed it's photo service completely shows the lack of interest people have in printing and preserving photos. The market is really small.
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craftywendy
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May 29, 2018 14:56:21 GMT
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Post by craftywendy on Feb 6, 2023 23:37:56 GMT
Thanks everyone for sharing your insights and thoughts. Just honestly sad to see another store go. For my part I will continue to support LSS in person or even online if they have an online store, I know how hard it has to be in this day and age to keep the doors open.
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on Feb 7, 2023 1:03:49 GMT
I think it's a combination of things.
Volume of shoppers and shopping options.
Not as many people are scrapbooking anymore.
When scrapbooking was in it's prime, the online shopping options were not available like they are today. The majority of shoppers went to the actual store back then. Nowadays, many shop online.
Product availability.
I've shopped at many stores(in my city and out of state when traveling) back when scrapbooking was in it's prime, and currently if there are stores available.
The one thing I've noticed is >> stock at actual scrapbook stores, is usual based on and reflects the owners style and preference s of scrapbooking.
Meaning...
If an owner uses stickers, there will be a lot of stickers in that store.
If an owner likes a certain brand, the full lines of that brand will be available.
If the owner likes vintage, then all the vintage lines be available.
There used to be a store in my city, then rarely had stickers, it was all about die cuts and cardstock.
There was another store, the owner didn't like messy look look of Basic Grey so no Basic Grey was available.
Etc, etc, etc....
For a store to appease and accommodate each individual scrapbookers style and taste in products, a store would have to invest a substantial amount of money into the inventory on hand. Some small businesses cannot afford to do that.
Overhead costs.
Guaranteed that a small (say 1200 square foot store) these days is triple or quadruple the cost per square foot rental, than it was when scrapbooking was in its prime, as well as utility costs have probably tripled or quadrupled as well. Especially it a business is located in a busy shopping center or plaza.
The volume of "in store" shoppers, is probably half or 1/4 of was it was when scrapbooking was in it's prime.
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Shakti
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Troubled, complicated, and constant
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Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Feb 7, 2023 1:42:43 GMT
I was out of the hobby for a decade, decade and a half or so. In that time, all my LSSs closed. And we had a great stamp/scrap ecosystem in greater Boston -- some little niche stamp companies like Inkadinkado.
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pinklady
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Post by pinklady on Feb 7, 2023 3:06:51 GMT
I’ll be the voice of descent. First and foremost I have to support me and that means getting the most bang for my buck.
Back in the day, brick and mortar mom & pop craft stores got most of my money simply because there were less online retailers.
Online stores have essentially made brick & mortar stores obsolete. I just cannot pay more at a brick and mortar mom & pop craft store if I can get it cheaper online or even at a big box store. I know that is going to be frowned upon by some but it’s the truth.
Specifically referring to the card making industry, online selling has enabled a wide variety of new businesses (The Greetery, The Stamp Market, etc) to open. These companies are basically run out of their garages and never could have existed if it weren’t for online selling.
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scrapnnana
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Post by scrapnnana on Feb 7, 2023 5:15:04 GMT
I think it is far more complicated, and every answer has contributed a piece of the puzzle, but there are more pieces. Rent is less expensive in some areas than others, but any LSS that is going to survive needs to find a place that is within reasonable driving distance of a major city, but in a location that isn’t going to be too expensive to make it impossible to make a profit selling paper. They also need to offer a lot of incentive for customers, treat their customers like friends/family, offer fun classes, crops, and everything else that was already suggested above, and more. It’s incredibly challenging, especially with Big Box craft stores and TM selling papers cheaper than the LSS can.
I taught classes at the first LSS that opened and both worked and taught classes for the second LSS (which was much closer to my home), back when I lived in Northern Virginia. The owner of the second store lived in my neighborhood. I was friends with one of the owners of the first LSS, but I knew the owner of the second LSS better. I heard a lot about the challenges of both stores, and watched what they went through, especially the owner of the second LSS. At one point, there were 5 LSS within reasonable driving distance, but eventually, only the second LSS was still surviving. Then the owner’s parents needed help, and she knew that she needed to sell the store to be free to move near her parents. The only offer she got was from someone trying to get an established store for pennies on the dollar, so the owner put everything on sale and got what she could out of the stock, and closed up shop. So many LSS owners go through challenges that most of us can only guess at.
If you still have a decent LSS to shop at, you are very lucky. I have none near me. Thankfully, I do have a decent stash, even if it’s almost all older products and all older papers.
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Post by tinksmommy on Feb 7, 2023 6:15:01 GMT
I recently visited a store in Iowa that has 10 employees.... I've wondered this myself...is it where the market is more robust? Eau Claire, WI boasts 2 thriving scrapbook stores, and unless things have changed, San Diego CA has none. You are correct. San Diego still has zero LSS’s. Shocking a big city like ours with not one store when there was once so, so many. I have to drive 1.5 hours to go to a beautiful store in Upland. Everything is exorbitantly high here in Southern California. So many businesses are leaving. I planned on opening my own store but the rent, taxes and wages prevent that. Sadly, not a possibility any longer. Scrapbooking is still popular here. Retreats are always full. The largest one I go to is 80-100 attendees. These are monthly retreats. |
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artbabe
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,388
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Post by artbabe on Feb 7, 2023 11:28:42 GMT
Columbus used to have 8 stores, now it has none.
Scrapbooking is a dying industry. Less and less people are scrapping. Everyone has had good insights but I just think it is that simple. There aren't a lot of people buying scrapbook products now.
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