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Post by roundtwo on Mar 4, 2023 20:17:51 GMT
(I think it is a symbol, not actually transforming into body & blood). I don't even go up to receive a blessing. I feel I don't need a blessing from someone who doesn't fully welcome me. There is a feeling of being a 2nd class citizen. The ex and his family are Catholic and this is how I often felt when I attended church with them. I have attended many services of various denominations, including a service at a Mosque, and I have never ever felt as unwelcome as I did at the Catholic churches. I know how to behave at a new place and would never presume to participate in any part of a service unless welcomed to do so. However there is a much better way to convey that message than I have heard at every one of the Catholic churches I attended. |
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Post by wezee on Mar 4, 2023 20:34:37 GMT
Interesting. I was raised Catholic. Now I attend an Evangelical church. In our church the pastor includes in our weekly mass , ‘As we pass our collection plate, if you do not consider our church your home church let the plate passed by. Communion is done twice a month. Usually there is a short time for reflection. Communion is encouraged as a sign of your belief as a Christian. ‘if you are not there yet that’s ok’ There is no shame or judgement in not taking communion.
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hannahruth
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Post by hannahruth on Mar 4, 2023 21:02:52 GMT
I attended a funeral in the early 1990's and heard this instruction for the first time then.
As I wasn't a Catholic I assumed that this is how things were done in the Catholic church. I certainly took no offence and thought it was nice to be included with the blessing.
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Post by KiwiJo on Mar 4, 2023 21:18:43 GMT
I am struggling to understand what is offensive with the Priest’s explanation.
Every group, whether religious or not, has their own way of doing things and are likely to get upset if others do something contrary to what is acceptable to them.
I think it’s great that the priest explained things thoroughly, otherwise there are going to be people who later complain “But how was I expected to know that”.
Ok, other denominations have different expectations with communion - so what? The priest was making it very clear that EVERYONE IS WELCOME to approach the altar. He explained what is then expected according to their beliefs. How can that be offensive?
It’s no different to the local outdoor bowling club having a sign that only flat shoes with no heels at all are allowed on the green; or the fast food outlet having a sign that only food purchased there can be eaten there. The explanation by the priest was spoken and not written on a sign, but otherwise it’s surely just same type of explanation of what’s acceptable or expected.
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Post by birukitty on Mar 4, 2023 21:27:58 GMT
So glad I became Protestant where everyone is welcome. I just feel like it's fair to point out that it's not because of unwelcomeness, or because the Catholic church doesn't believe other religions take communion or religious celebration seriously - it is because of different theological beliefs. In general, Protestant churches believe communion is symbolic, while the Catholic church believes in transsubstantiation - the bread and wine literally becoming the Body and Blood of Christ. We can argue the validity of those beliefs all you want elsewhere, but it's not because Catholics are big meanies. The blessing offered is actually an attempt to be conciliatory to those who are not in good theological standing with the Catholic church. For the original question, I've heard it said at funerals, Easters, Christmas, etc. where you are likely to have a lot of non-Catholics or Catholics who are not in "good standing." I've also heard it at the occasional regular Mass if it is celebrated by one of the more theologically strict priests. I agree, it doesn't sound very nice, but I'm not sure how else you convey something that is a theological rule. You can say it apologetically, I suppose, but then, should someone have to apologize for the rules within their own "home?" If I visit a mosque, do I argue that I shouldn't have to take off my shoes just because I'm taking it seriously and really am respectful? I assume that most people with a religious practice take it at least moderately seriously, but you follow the rules of the practice you are sharing in. If you don't believe something, such as transubstantiation, you should not participate in that ritual or part of the celebration. You simply respectfully observe, share in the celebration, and participate in any prayers, etc. that you theologically agree with. This 100% . As a Catholic I don't consider myself "in good standing" if I haven't been to confession before I'm attending the Mass when communion is offered. If that happens I too come up with my arms crossed. It's based on the teaching of the Catholic Church. As for the OP's question-yes I have heard these instructions many times at Mass. It isn't meant to offend those who aren't Catholic at all. It's meant to let those folks know that communion in the Catholic Church has these rules, and if you aren't Catholic and in "good standing" you may still come up and receive a blessing from the priest. By crossing your arms you are signaling to the priest non-verbally what it is you are there to do-receive communion or a blessing. In this way all are included. |
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Mar 4, 2023 22:02:13 GMT
I’ve heard it several times so not uncommon.
Though the priest at my grandmother’s funeral seemed rather miffed when he went through blessing all the grandkids (pall bearers) and none were good standing Catholics taking communion. So it did feel judgy and exclusionary. But maybe the sigh and eye roll was for something else. 🤷♀️
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jayfab
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Post by jayfab on Mar 4, 2023 22:11:38 GMT
If you are not a catholic in good standing, meaning you do not go to mass regularly and in a state of grace, you may also place your arms over your chest for a blessing. Former Catholic, and the "state of grace" thing can really be up to interpretation, according to what I see in my still practicing friends. Divorce, birth control, IVF, pre-marital sex, homosexuality, etc. can remove you from "a state of grace" ... but some priests/churches look the other way. Some come down hard on it. And for many, it depends on who you are. If they actually forbade all women who are on BC hardly any women would be able to participate. State of grace - just ugh. |
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Post by peasapie on Mar 5, 2023 0:22:41 GMT
I’m a non practicing Catholic and find nothing wrong with what the priest said. I’m married, divorced and remarried and that makes me someone who shouldn’t receive, and I don’t. I’ll tell you what bothers me: when nearly everyone in the church at weddings and funerals goes up to receive communion, including non Catholics and other people like myself who are divorced and remarried. Follow the rules of the religion. Catholics believe you are receiving the body of Christ in that communion and that you should have first received the sacraments of baptism, penance and Eucharist and should be in a state of grace. Receiving communion isn’t a handshake - it’s the most important part of the Catholic religion.
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anniebeth24
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Post by anniebeth24 on Mar 5, 2023 0:53:51 GMT
It's not just a Catholic "thing." We visited a Lutheran church for an Easter service a few years ago. The pastor made it very clear that only confirmed Lutherans were to partake in communion.
This was a Missouri Synod church, which I believe to be the most Catholic-like of the variations of Lutherans. For instance, women are not allowed to be ordained.
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Post by kachilyn on Mar 5, 2023 1:07:17 GMT
semi practicing Catholic here - but also gluten free so haven't taken communion in years. I remain in my pew kneeling and don't go up to communion unless it is somewhere I feel I must - family funeral, wedding, other rite that I need to follow everyone out of my pew and back. Then I just cross my arms and receive a blessing. I haven't heard it said out loud at Mass but I also haven't been in person aside from weddings/funerals since pre covid. I think it could be perceived as unwelcoming or not depending on how it is said...
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Post by monklady123 on Mar 5, 2023 1:23:03 GMT
It's not just a Catholic "thing." We visited a Lutheran church for an Easter service a few years ago. The pastor made it very clear that only confirmed Lutherans were to partake in communion. This was a Missouri Synod church, which I believe to be the most Catholic-like of the variations of Lutherans. For instance, women are not allowed to be ordained. Yes, those are the extremists. lol. If you go to a regular Lutheran church -- the ELCA, Evangelical Lutheran Church of America -- you'll find the more open table Lutherans. |
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kate
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Post by kate on Mar 5, 2023 2:09:59 GMT
I have not heard this - and I am a practicing Catholic. I have seen it printed in programs for services where a large number of non-Catholics might be expected, but I have never heard anyone's "state of grace" (or lack thereof) mentioned. I'm a little horrified.
I admit that I tend toward more progressive parishes, where Pope Francis is widely quoted as saying the Eucharist is the bread of sinners, not the reward for saints.
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garcia5050
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Post by garcia5050 on Mar 5, 2023 2:21:34 GMT
I’ve heard it stated exactly like the OP heard, at many recent funerals and one recent wedding. But not at a regular Sunday mass.
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mamallama
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Post by mamallama on Mar 5, 2023 4:17:55 GMT
I was at a funeral this summer where this happened. I grew up Lutheran and my dad was Catholic so I know that you don’t take communion at either church unless you have been confirmed. I go to a nondenominational church now and our pastor talks about the significance of communion and why believers do it but there is no gatekeeping. If someone takes communion that “shouldn’t” it’s not our place to judge.
I do find it odd that people were put out by it. If they aren’t Catholic what would be their motivation for taking communion? At the church I was at the priest still puts the wafer on your tongue and they drink from a communal cup. No thanks. Lol
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Mar 5, 2023 8:47:23 GMT
I was at a funeral this summer where this happened. I grew up Lutheran and my dad was Catholic so I know that you don’t take communion at either church unless you have been confirmed. I go to a nondenominational church now and our pastor talks about the significance of communion and why believers do it but there is no gatekeeping. If someone takes communion that “shouldn’t” it’s not our place to judge. I do find it odd that people were put out by it. If they aren’t Catholic what would be their motivation for taking communion? At the church I was at the priest still puts the wafer on your tongue and they drink from a communal cup. No thanks. Lol Motivation for taking communion would be those who believe it’s a Christian rite not a Catholic exclusionary rite. I’ve got no skin in the game either way but there are many denominations where communion is open to all vs those in good standing so there’s issues of who is deemed worthy. |
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Mar 6, 2023 21:48:05 GMT
I am struggling to understand what is offensive with the Priest’s explanation. Every group, whether religious or not, has their own way of doing things and are likely to get upset if others do something contrary to what is acceptable to them. I think it’s great that the priest explained things thoroughly, otherwise there are going to be people who later complain “But how was I expected to know that”. Ok, other denominations have different expectations with communion - so what? The priest was making it very clear that EVERYONE IS WELCOME to approach the altar. He explained what is then expected according to their beliefs. How can that be offensive? It’s no different to the local outdoor bowling club having a sign that only flat shoes with no heels at all are allowed on the green; or the fast food outlet having a sign that only food purchased there can be eaten there. The explanation by the priest was spoken and not written on a sign, but otherwise it’s surely just same type of explanation of what’s acceptable or expected. This response isn't just to you, but to anyone who is asking why it is a big deal or how it could be stated differently. For me, personally, it isn't a big deal. I was part of a conversation by two non-Catholics who were annoyed--not majorly, but they thought it was pretty heavy handed/rude sounding, and I agree that is was as well as a bunch of other non-practicing/no longer Catholics I spoke to after the funeral. Someone up-thread wrote it in a way that sounded better. I think the key is to say it in a positive/welcoming way vs. a negative/excluding way. And yes, I think that a good leader/speaker should be able to do that. Sometimes less is better, so I think something like, "Now we prepare to receive Jesus Christ in Holy Communion. Those who are not practicing Catholics may stay seated, but I also welcome all those gathered to join the procession and receive a blessing. Please cross your arms as you approach." Honestly, I don't know that it is a lot different, but people who speak to the public on a regular basis and lead, should be able to find a way to not make numerous people feel uncomfortable/excluded/feel defensive. If the priest really doesn't give a crap about making non-Catholics feel welcome, then I think they forgo the "blessing" and just say, "We now invite all practicing Catholics to accept communion." Thanks for everyone's responses. This must be regional and newer in this area. It is a very large church in Southern Minnesota, and it definitely gives off the "we are the real Catholics/old school" vibe. I was married, 27 years ago, in a Catholic church 15 miles away, and that was definitely NOT part of the mass at that point, and although I have not been a practicing Catholic for a very long time, my DH and I both grew up Catholic and have been to many Catholic weddings and funerals over the years for family and friends, and I photographed a few Catholic weddings over a ten year period of time (2005-2015ish), and that was not said at any of those masses at that time either-- around here (Central MN). I definitely believe you all that you have had different experiences, so I am glad I asked. |
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Post by amp on Mar 7, 2023 13:09:42 GMT
I knew it growing up, but I don't remember hearing it. For the past 15 to 20 years, I've heard it all the time...Mass, weddings, etc. I can understand how it may be offputting to some. but my church goes out of their way to make everyone feel welcome, and I've never noticed anyone to be bothered by it.
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Post by MissBianca on Mar 7, 2023 13:51:30 GMT
My kids went to Catholic school even though we are not Catholic. They only went to mass when the classes were required, but they would get a blessing. I wouldn’t say they were forced to get a blessing but my kids always ended up strategically placed in the center of the pew so they had to get up or be climbed over. It was just easier to get up.
What I found hypocritical was the state of Grace part, my friend was divorced so she was not allowed to take communion even though it was her husband that had an affair that led to the divorce yet another couple I know, the husband was currently having an affair with his 40 days of life co-chair and the whole church knew. The wife was basically run out of church while the husband and his married mistress were able to still partake in communion and all other aspects of church life.
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Post by Linda on Mar 7, 2023 14:05:36 GMT
being divorced in and of itself isn't an issue Catholic wise - remarrying after a divorce without an annulment IS. I'm sorry that your friend was made to think otherwise. |
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Post by workingclassdog on Mar 7, 2023 14:09:44 GMT
I'm a former Catholic and I can remember them saying this over 30 years ago.. so I would say this has been a common practice. (I don't agree with it but honor their wishes)
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Post by kmcginn on Mar 7, 2023 15:23:30 GMT
As a proud practicing Catholic myself, I couldn't have said it better!!
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Mar 7, 2023 19:48:00 GMT
I was at a funeral this summer where this happened. I grew up Lutheran and my dad was Catholic so I know that you don’t take communion at either church unless you have been confirmed. I go to a nondenominational church now and our pastor talks about the significance of communion and why believers do it but there is no gatekeeping. If someone takes communion that “shouldn’t” it’s not our place to judge. I do find it odd that people were put out by it. If they aren’t Catholic what would be their motivation for taking communion? At the church I was at the priest still puts the wafer on your tongue and they drink from a communal cup. No thanks. Lol Motivation for taking communion would be those who believe it’s a Christian rite not a Catholic exclusionary rite. I’ve got no skin in the game either way but there are many denominations where communion is open to all vs those in good standing so there’s issues of who is deemed worthy. ^^^. Yea, that. I’m a non-practicing ELCA Lutheran, and I didn’t know that Catholics felt like this about “their” communion being somehow more special than the communion we received at our church. |
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Post by Merge on Mar 7, 2023 21:55:21 GMT
Motivation for taking communion would be those who believe it’s a Christian rite not a Catholic exclusionary rite. I’ve got no skin in the game either way but there are many denominations where communion is open to all vs those in good standing so there’s issues of who is deemed worthy. ^^^. Yea, that. I’m a non-practicing ELCA Lutheran, and I didn’t know that Catholics felt like this about “their” communion being somehow more special than the communion we received at our church. It’s not a matter of being more special. Martin Luther explicitly rejected the doctrine of transubstantiation, which is the core of Catholic doctrine for the Eucharist. Catholics believe the bread literally becomes the body of Christ. There’s a group of wacky people on the internet who claim to have found human cardiac tissue in the consecrated host, which, ew, but to each their own. Anyway, yes. Catholics don’t allow non-Catholics to receive communion, and based on my 34 years of experience in the church they also believe they’re the only true church and the rest of y’all are on thin ice with the Lord with all that symbolic bread and wine. Lol. I don’t believe in or agree with any of this - I’m just very familiar with the teachings. As with most things, there’s the official teachings from canon law and the catechism, and then there’s what individuals actually believe and practice, so you’ll find that many practicing Catholics are iffy on certain aspects of that, too. |
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AllieC
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Post by AllieC on Mar 7, 2023 22:09:48 GMT
I am a lapsed Catholic but have gone to probably one mass a year for various reasons. The non-Catholic thing is not an issue for me but I have never heard this part "If you are not a catholic in good standing, meaning you do not go to mass regularly and in a state of grace, you may also place your arms over your chest for a blessing. Catholics in good standing are encouraged to take communion" it has always been that if you are Catholic and have taken the Communion rite then you are welcome to participate.
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Post by MissBianca on Mar 7, 2023 22:26:16 GMT
being divorced in and of itself isn't an issue Catholic wise - remarrying after a divorce without an annulment IS. I'm sorry that your friend was made to think otherwise. She is not remarried. Both the priest and the bishop told her she couldn’t take communion anymore. There is such a double standard especially within this particular parish depending on where you fall in the pecking order and sadly money talks. |
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Post by Linda on Mar 7, 2023 22:45:44 GMT
it has always been that if you are Catholic and have taken the Communion rite then you are welcome to participate UNLESS you have an unconfessed mortal sin on your conscience (which is the 'in good standing bit') She is not remarried. Both the priest and the bishop told her she couldn’t take communion anymore. There is such a double standard especially within this particular parish depending on where you fall in the pecking order and sadly money talks. that is 100% wrong in so many ways. I'm so sorry that your friend's clergy is so misinformed (and I'm being charitable and assuming it's ignorance not malice)  |
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Post by disneypal on Mar 7, 2023 22:48:19 GMT
Yes, it's very common. I refer to myself as a recovering Catholic. I've belonged to Lutheran churches for over 40 years, but as my entire family are practicing Catholics, I am at mass fairly often. It's one of the things I dislike about the Catholic church. My Lutheran church says it's Christ's table and all are welcome. That is what our Presbyterian church says too..."This is Christ's table and all are welcome" |
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Post by amp on Mar 7, 2023 22:55:48 GMT
Motivation for taking communion would be those who believe it’s a Christian rite not a Catholic exclusionary rite. I’ve got no skin in the game either way but there are many denominations where communion is open to all vs those in good standing so there’s issues of who is deemed worthy. ^^^. Yea, that. I’m a non-practicing ELCA Lutheran, and I didn’t know that Catholics felt like this about “their” communion being somehow more special than the communion we received at our church. We don't feel it is more special, just different. Prior to my marriage, we talked to both a priest and a Methodist minister (my husband was Protestant). Both sides gave us pre-marital counseling, but it was the Methodist minister who discussed the differences between the faiths to make sure we were Ok with it. One of the major differences is that Protestants (or at least Methodists in 1985) believe that the bread is a symbol of the body of Christ. We believe it is the actual body of Christ (Transubstantiation). That's always been a hard one for me to wrap my mind around, but I think that has something to do with it. Again, we are not better, just different. I don't take communion at Protestant churches, and I'm totally OK with that. I just try to get any good message out of the service that I can.  |
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Post by amp on Mar 7, 2023 23:00:04 GMT
^^^. Yea, that. I’m a non-practicing ELCA Lutheran, and I didn’t know that Catholics felt like this about “their” communion being somehow more special than the communion we received at our church. It’s not a matter of being more special. Martin Luther explicitly rejected the doctrine of transubstantiation, which is the core of Catholic doctrine for the Eucharist. Catholics believe the bread literally becomes the body of Christ. There’s a group of wacky people on the internet who claim to have found human cardiac tissue in the consecrated host, which, ew, but to each their own. Anyway, yes. Catholics don’t allow non-Catholics to receive communion, and based on my 34 years of experience in the church they also believe they’re the only true church and the rest of y’all are on thin ice with the Lord with all that symbolic bread and wine. Lol. I don’t believe in or agree with any of this - I’m just very familiar with the teachings. As with most things, there’s the official teachings from canon law and the catechism, and then there’s what individuals actually believe and practice, so you’ll find that many practicing Catholics are iffy on certain aspects of that, too. True about transubstantiation, but we don't think you all are on thin ice with the Lord. I checked into this after my beloved former husband passed away. I talked to a couple of priests that I trusted, and they all told me that he is in Heaven if he was a good person. They said that God judges people on their acts and what is in their hearts...not what church they attend on Sunday. That having been said, nobody really knows how it works. But since Catholicism is all I know, I have Mass intentions said twice a year for his soul, and will do it for the rest of my life. It can't hurt. |
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Post by amp on Mar 7, 2023 23:20:59 GMT
being divorced in and of itself isn't an issue Catholic wise - remarrying after a divorce without an annulment IS. I'm sorry that your friend was made to think otherwise. She is not remarried. Both the priest and the bishop told her she couldn’t take communion anymore. There is such a double standard especially within this particular parish depending on where you fall in the pecking order and sadly money talks. IMHO, that is a problem with that priest and bishop!! That is *not* how it is supposed to work. I'm divorced, all my priests know it, and are fine with it. That's really bad. I'm your friend is dealing with this. And her ex-husband should not be with his mistress unless he has obtained an annullment. Money or no many, that's how it is supposed to work. Linda is absolutely correct. |
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