breetheflea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,591
Location: PNW
Jul 20, 2014 21:57:23 GMT
|
Post by breetheflea on Mar 16, 2023 19:41:14 GMT
I've been thinking of starting an Etsy store, for something to do in my spare time, and am researching angel policies...
I have been surprised by who and who doesn't allow you to do stuff.
Tim Holtz- nothing, no way, don't even think about it.
Fiskars: go you crafter, make stuff using our tools!
Cricut: I don't even know what they are trying to say. If I cut the pieces to make a die cut and sell them as "a kit you can assemble" that's not allowed, but if I glue together all the pieces that is OK is what I got out of it... for what I want to do, their policy says I can't so...
Silhouette: at least makes it easy to buy a commercial license with one click...
Penny Black-- you can make 36 things per stamp, period.
Sizzix-- I'm not sure if Craftwork is what they call a die cut image, or is a certain type of Sizzix product but they mention that word and capitalize it several times in their blurb...
And everything in between.
I just find it interesting... and complicated.
|
|
|
Post by mom on Mar 16, 2023 21:36:51 GMT
Honestly, it all sounds like a headache. I'd need a spreadsheet to keep track of who I can use/and how many I've made to keep within their guidelines. No thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Embri on Mar 17, 2023 2:11:32 GMT
One more reason I buy off AliExpress. No ridiculous limitations to what I can or can't do with my own tools.
|
|
craftgranny
Full Member
Posts: 174
Jul 30, 2020 11:56:27 GMT
|
Post by craftgranny on Mar 17, 2023 12:20:27 GMT
Stampers Anonymous changed their Angel Policy and this is what it says-Angel Policy At Stampers Anonymous, we want you to be able to use our products to create incredible items for your own personal use, but we do have a few restrictions to protect us and our art. Reproduction of any portion of our images, catalog or website is strictly prohibited. No Stampers Anonymous image may be mechanically reproduced or copied by any means including, but not limited to, photocopying, computer scanning and printing, using overhead or opaque projectors for enlarging or hand-copying images, or any other means for resale. Our stamps are NOT available in electronic form and not available as digital downloads. • Each image must hand stamped and may not be reproduced using any means other than hand stamping. • You may not photocopy, print, trace, scan, or mass produce any image. • You may not copy or rent our products, they are for your personal use only. • You may not use images for logos, trademarks or promotional materials.
Sizzix- A brief overview of our Angel Policy.
Your Craftwork must not be a direct copy of the Sizzix die design or product.
If you are using a Sizzix product or die design for personal sales, you must personally ensure you create this into a project i.e. a card, invite, homeware product and so on in order for it to work in compliance with our Angel Policy. The Die Images are proprietary and/or copyrighted by their respective owners, which means that they may not be copied without permission.
You must not use any Sizzix designs for the use of logos or branding and any projects you create should not be mass produced.
Whilst this a more simplified approach to our Angel Policy, particular care needs to be paid to ensure you are working in accordance with the full and legal version of our policy. This can be viewed here.
Nothing on Ranger's Website about Tim Holtz
Angel Policies change all the time, so I would always check to see if they have been updated before posting an item on Etsy. There is a lot of old information regarding Angel Policies out there. In regards to Tim Holtz, you have to go to the individual websites of where his items are manufactured. Stampers Anonymous, Sizzix, Ranger Ink, Advantus. Not sure where you got your information @breatheflea but it seems out of date.
|
|
breetheflea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,591
Location: PNW
Jul 20, 2014 21:57:23 GMT
|
Post by breetheflea on Mar 17, 2023 13:41:33 GMT
Stampers Anonymous changed their Angel Policy and this is what it says-Angel Policy At Stampers Anonymous, we want you to be able to use our products to create incredible items for your own personal use, but we do have a few restrictions to protect us and our art. Reproduction of any portion of our images, catalog or website is strictly prohibited. No Stampers Anonymous image may be mechanically reproduced or copied by any means including, but not limited to, photocopying, computer scanning and printing, using overhead or opaque projectors for enlarging or hand-copying images, or any other means for resale. Our stamps are NOT available in electronic form and not available as digital downloads. • Each image must hand stamped and may not be reproduced using any means other than hand stamping. • You may not photocopy, print, trace, scan, or mass produce any image. • You may not copy or rent our products, they are for your personal use only. • You may not use images for logos, trademarks or promotional materials. Sizzix- A brief overview of our Angel Policy. Your Craftwork must not be a direct copy of the Sizzix die design or product. If you are using a Sizzix product or die design for personal sales, you must personally ensure you create this into a project i.e. a card, invite, homeware product and so on in order for it to work in compliance with our Angel Policy. The Die Images are proprietary and/or copyrighted by their respective owners, which means that they may not be copied without permission. You must not use any Sizzix designs for the use of logos or branding and any projects you create should not be mass produced. Whilst this a more simplified approach to our Angel Policy, particular care needs to be paid to ensure you are working in accordance with the full and legal version of our policy. This can be viewed here. Nothing on Ranger's Website about Tim Holtz Angel Policies change all the time, so I would always check to see if they have been updated before posting an item on Etsy. There is a lot of old information regarding Angel Policies out there. In regards to Tim Holtz, you have to go to the individual websites of where his items are manufactured. Stampers Anonymous, Sizzix, Ranger Ink, Advantus. Not sure where you got your information @breatheflea but it seems out of date. But it says right there for Stamper's Anonymous "for your own personal use," and "or any other means for resale" which would mean no selling... or that's what I got out of it. Like I said, it's confusing. I wasn't actually planning on using any Tim Holtz stuff anyway, it's just one I encountered when trying to see if I could use a Sizzix die or not.
|
|
scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,451
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
|
Post by scrapnnana on Mar 17, 2023 14:54:03 GMT
It sounds to me as if the Stamper’s Anonymous angel policy’s “personal use” statement means no mass production, such as for an Etsy store or craft fairs, etc. Not all companies are that strict.
I assume that from what I’ve seen of the various angel policies that I’ve read, that the biggest issue for most companies is digital reproduction, which would allow someone to produce in large quantities, but without giving any compensation to the company that made the stamp, or whatever you are using. I don’t blame the companies for that. And as a customer, if I am paying for a hand made card, I would want it to be hand made, not made once and parts digitally copied and mass produced. Copied and printed materials aren’t going to be quite the same. The image will be slightly less defined, and the colors slightly off from the original.
For what it’s worth, I use one company more than any other when I make cards, and that is Queen & Co., because their Foundation dies make it so easy to make cards. I often add a stamped character from another company to embellish. I was curious as to what the Queen & Co. angel policy might be, and this is what their website says:
“ What is your angel policy? Queen & Co encourages our customers to use our products to create handmade cards and creations for sale. We ask that you do not digitally alter or reproduce any of our products. We ask that you do not use any of our images for promotional material. None of our stamped or die cuts images can be sold. We ask that you do not swap our stamped images or die cuts.”
So if you use their products, you need to die cut and/or stamp each piece yourself, and glue the pieces to cards you have designed yourself instead of copying one of their promotional card designs; but it would be very easy to design an easily mass produced card using their products. They only sell kits, which usually include phrase stamps. Some of their die designs are really adorable critters or items (telephone, mailbox, bunny, etc.), and most of their dies have stitch lines.
If I were selling cards using an Etsy store or craft fairs, I would probably use Queen & Co. dies, and/or Silhouette designs for most of each card. I have no affiliation with either of them, but I have bought more of the Queen & Co. dies than from any other company, and I have a Silhouette subscription (which I think also allows me to buy the commercial license at a discount). I might see if any stamp companies offer a more flexible angel policy than SA, that at least lets me hand stamp and color the stamps to go on the cards, but seriously, I could probably manage to make cards for sale just with the Q&Co. dies. You’d want an electronic die cutter like the Gemini, so you wouldn’t have to hand crank everything, though, and if you use stamped images, choose designs that you can color quickly and easily, since most policies don’t allow digital reproductions. And if the stamped images don’t have matching dies, or if you would be stamping and die cutting a lot, you might want the Brother Scan N Cut to cut out stamped and colored images. If you use Silhouette and can get the commercial license for print & cut designs, that would be an easy alternative to stamping, coloring, and cutting out images to add to cards. Not all Silhouette designs have the commercial license option, though, so I’d check before using it on a card that I want to mass produce for sale.
Another company that lets you use their products is Heartfelt Creations, and like many companies, whatever you sell must be hand made, not digitally copied. Here is their angel policy:
“Heartfelt Creations is a full-fledged "Angel" Company. This entitles the owner of Heartfelt Creations products to make projects for personal use or sell as handmade one-of-a-kind creations. Each item must be hand-made. Mechanical, electronic, digital, or any form of reproduction other than hand-made is not allowed.”
The “one of a kind” phrase suggests that they might expect you to vary the design rather than just make the same cards over and over to sell, but I’m not entirely sure about the interpretation of that.
There are a lot of companies out there that let you use their stamps, dies, etc. to make and sell cards, but most of them do require the cards to be hand made rather than mass produced with digital help. Personally, I don’t think that is an unreasonable request, and it doesn’t take that long to find out what any company's angel policy is.
I hope you figure out something that will work for you, since it sounds like you want to sell cards through an Etsy store or craft fairs. I might consider doing it someday, so this thread has been helpful. I have enough stamps, dies, and supplies that I could easily do it, if I had the time and inclination.
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Mar 21, 2023 3:00:02 GMT
“Heartfelt Creations is a full-fledged "Angel" Company. This entitles the owner of Heartfelt Creations products to make projects for personal use or sell as handmade one-of-a-kind creations. Each item must be hand-made. Mechanical, electronic, digital, or any form of reproduction other than hand-made is not allowed.” The “one of a kind” phrase suggests that they might expect you to vary the design rather than just make the same cards over and over to sell, but I’m not entirely sure about the interpretation of that. There are a lot of companies out there that let you use their stamps, dies, etc. to make and sell cards, but most of them do require the cards to be hand made rather than mass produced with digital help. Personally, I don’t think that is an unreasonable request, and it doesn’t take that long to find out what any company's angel policy is. I hope you figure out something that will work for you, since it sounds like you want to sell cards through an Etsy store or craft fairs. I might consider doing it someday, so this thread has been helpful. I have enough stamps, dies, and supplies that I could easily do it, if I had the time and inclination. I would take that to mean that it’s ok to make the same cards over and over by hand if you want to, as long as you don’t color in one stamped image or create a card using stamped/die cut images and then have it printed or photocopied repeatedly for customers. That’s how I take it anyway. Does anyone know if any companies actually go after people on Etsy? I’m sure I’ve probably broken the rules inadvertently here and there because I never checked the angel policies when I started out. They also seem a little vague and open to interpretation. I’ve never done anything that I felt was stealing or profiting from someone else’s art but some companies (I avoid buying from) seem very restrictive.
|
|
|
Post by mcjunkin on Mar 21, 2023 16:33:04 GMT
Some of Tim Holtz's "makers" have sold items that were made for some of his product line lives.
|
|
|
Post by don on Mar 23, 2023 11:47:33 GMT
I don't understand Angel Policies. Maybe they should be called Angle Policies. I buy a stamp, paper, ink, glue, etc, then make a dozen cards, but I'm not allowed to sell them? I notice the stores have no Angel Policy on selling the materials. When you buy an oven, does the manufacturer say you can't sell what you cook? Do car manufacturers require a kickback from cab companies or Uber drivers?
|
|
scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,451
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
|
Post by scrapnnana on Mar 24, 2023 1:33:53 GMT
I don't understand Angel Policies. Maybe they should be called Angle Policies. I buy a stamp, paper, ink, glue, etc, then make a dozen cards, but I'm not allowed to sell them? I notice the stores have no Angel Policy on selling the materials. When you buy an oven, does the manufacturer say you can't sell what you cook? Do car manufacturers require a kickback from cab companies or Uber drivers? Blame the lawyers. And copyright laws. And artists who design stamps that would be upset if someone else made more money using their artwork than they do. We could debate the fairness or unfairness of it, but the laws about selling for profit have come about partly due to people who took advantage of designers. I do hope to use my arsenal of stamps, dies, and papers someday to make cards to sell, but I will either create my own artwork to use, or abide by the angel policies of those who designed the stamps and dies I want to use. I’m not sure I want to spend extra time designing my own artwork, even though I do have some art ability. I’ll probably just use products made by companies that are more amenable to their products being used on products for sale.
|
|
Ryann
Pearl Clutcher
Love is Inclusive
Posts: 2,643
Location: PNW
May 31, 2021 3:14:17 GMT
|
Post by Ryann on Mar 24, 2023 1:40:40 GMT
Lots of companies have very reasonable Angel Policies that just want you to hand stamp whatever you create. You can sell your handmade creations without issues.
|
|
|
Post by riversong1963 on Mar 24, 2023 11:54:51 GMT
I don't understand Angel Policies. Maybe they should be called Angle Policies. I buy a stamp, paper, ink, glue, etc, then make a dozen cards, but I'm not allowed to sell them? I notice the stores have no Angel Policy on selling the materials. When you buy an oven, does the manufacturer say you can't sell what you cook? Do car manufacturers require a kickback from cab companies or Uber drivers? I'm with you, Don, and I don't pay attention to "angel policies." I've never sold stamped images, but I have sold cards that I've made. I've never seen any other industry make such a fuss over what you can and can't do with their products once you've purchased them (except Disney, of course, lol). These policies aren't really enforceable anyway, and I don't know of anyone who has ever been sued for making a card and selling it, regardless of the company's "policy." In any case, the company would have to clearly indicate this on packaging so the customer is aware before purchasing their products. This issue has been debated for many years, and I feel the same way now as I did back when it all started. I'm not a lawyer, and copyright law is very complicated. This is just my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by don on Mar 24, 2023 17:36:25 GMT
After browsing the web I found this; "Are angel policies legally binding? Its your choice to "abide" by the angel policy, but remember that it is only a policy and not a contract. You're not legally obligated to put their name on your cards. The cards are your work - not theirs - so the only name that really needs to go there is your own." Works for me.
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Mar 24, 2023 19:06:01 GMT
There was one company policy I seem to remember (sorry, ages ago, I can’t remember who) that seemed to be asking people not to alter their artworks by masking or partial stamping. Maybe that wasn’t what they were really trying to protect against - I would assume they didn’t want people altering the image and then selling it as a new stamp/digital artwork - but it seemed very odd to me as a crafter.
I would hope that most crafters are not taking advantage of the designers they use since it’s a mutually beneficial relationship. But the people who knock off designs for resale are not going to care about any angel policies anyway. I’ve never heard of anyone being flagged on Etsy or anywhere for selling the kinds of handmade cards most of us make.
|
|
|
Post by BSnyder on Mar 25, 2023 3:01:05 GMT
IMO stamps are tools. Does the person that designed the hammer put rules on how that hammer is used? “This hammer is for personal use only. Homes or furniture built with this hammer cannot be mass produced or sold.” Sounds ridiculous, right?
|
|
suzyuk111
Junior Member
Posts: 63
Feb 2, 2017 23:31:28 GMT
|
Post by suzyuk111 on Nov 9, 2023 17:47:28 GMT
Hi. I jumped on here to see if anyone had a better understanding of angel policies as I'd been tearing out my hair! I was thinking of making toppers to sell from my scraps with my many dies but now I might just sell bags of scraps on a stash selling site instead!
|
|
|
Post by dewryce on Nov 9, 2023 18:06:30 GMT
I don't understand Angel Policies. Maybe they should be called Angle Policies. I buy a stamp, paper, ink, glue, etc, then make a dozen cards, but I'm not allowed to sell them? I notice the stores have no Angel Policy on selling the materials. When you buy an oven, does the manufacturer say you can't sell what you cook? Do car manufacturers require a kickback from cab companies or Uber drivers? I can agree with this comparison for tools and also consumable items. Which is why the Tim Holtz thing surprised me because surely you can sell what you make with his coloring mediums? But it’s not a good comparison to images because you can’t replicate the exact shape of vehicles/ovens or some of their proprietary parts without serious legal issues. eta: Kept reading. To me, stamps fall under images in this scenario. Some dies as well.
|
|
|
Post by don on Nov 9, 2023 18:43:05 GMT
dewryce In the case of stamps and dies, artist creates and sells or licenses to a producer, who in turn sells to retailers, who sells to end user. If an artist has an Angel Policy, a written copy should be provided with each item sold.
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Nov 9, 2023 19:07:32 GMT
Hi. I jumped on here to see if anyone had a better understanding of angel policies as I'd been tearing out my hair! I was thinking of making toppers to sell from my scraps with my many dies but now I might just sell bags of scraps on a stash selling site instead! Selling the scraps would be a lot less work ...but I wouldn't worry too much about it if you want to use your dies. It's highly unlikely that anyone will identify the dies you used, and at most you'd get a cease and desist warning anyway. Given how many knock off dies there are on the market (which totally sucks) and extremely similar legit dies from different companies, I don't even see how a designer could look at a finished crafty product and think they could protest that person breaking the angel policy rules. I think we came to the conclusion that not one of us has ever heard of anyone getting in trouble for using a physical supply they bought. So if you want to make something to sell you should just go ahead
|
|
suzyuk111
Junior Member
Posts: 63
Feb 2, 2017 23:31:28 GMT
|
Post by suzyuk111 on Nov 9, 2023 19:30:29 GMT
Hi. I jumped on here to see if anyone had a better understanding of angel policies as I'd been tearing out my hair! I was thinking of making toppers to sell from my scraps with my many dies but now I might just sell bags of scraps on a stash selling site instead! Selling the scraps would be a lot less work ...but I wouldn't worry too much about it if you want to use your dies. It's highly unlikely that anyone will identify the dies you used, and at most you'd get a cease and desist warning anyway. Given how many knock off dies there are on the market (which totally sucks) and extremely similar legit dies from different companies, I don't even see how a designer could look at a finished crafty product and think they could protest that person breaking the angel policy rules. I think we came to the conclusion that not one of us has ever heard of anyone getting in trouble for using a physical supply they bought. So if you want to make something to sell you should just go ahead Thank you x
|
|