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Post by onelasttime on Apr 29, 2023 21:08:51 GMT
So he was warned about shooting his gun in his yard. I wondered about that.
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Post by Lurkingpea on Apr 29, 2023 22:28:47 GMT
I haven’t read that personally but I would certainly pause for thought for that reason. I *know* some will say it’s not that bad, that they’ve never seen a gun where they live or whatever but it looks pretty common from over here. The following countries have issued a travel advisory to the US: Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, and the UK. New Zealand is mainly concerned about a terrorist attack, while the others state random gun violence. travelnoire.com/amp/us-travel-warningsThank you for linking that, I was out today. I should have found the link before I posted. It is something Americans should be ashamed about.
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Post by arielsmom on Apr 29, 2023 23:02:58 GMT
We love Hawaii and while there is less gun violence there, I think we will take our chances with Mexico than with some chimpanzee on a rampage. All “legal” and illegal gun holders are lesser primates. Want to be smart? Get rid of your gun. I take exception to your sweeping generalization. What should a rancher use to get rid of coyotes, or put a broken-legged horse out of his misery? What should a person living in a secluded location have to protect himself/herself against marauding thieves? What should a wheelchair-bound person use for self-defense in the event of a break-in? I believe there is a place for responsible gun ownership. Get a shotgun, pistol, or rifle. Be a registered gun owner. Get rid of the AR 15s. Better yet, if you wish to follow our fore fathers, get a muzzle loader.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 29, 2023 23:52:35 GMT
We love Hawaii and while there is less gun violence there, I think we will take our chances with Mexico than with some chimpanzee on a rampage. All “legal” and illegal gun holders are lesser primates. Want to be smart? Get rid of your gun. How rude!! And racist you are!!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 30, 2023 0:02:29 GMT
Here is their thought!! Charlie Kirk a few dead kids are worth his having guns Nice guy.... How does he sleep at night? Real Pro-life, NOT!! Only Pro- birth! Conservative podcaster Charlie Kirk doubled down on his belief that gun deaths are "worth it" because of the liberty firearms provide.After a mass shooting at a bank in Louisville, Kentucky on Monday, Kirk reacted by defending recent remarks that were highlighted by Media Matters. "I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights," the report quoted him as saying. On his Monday broadcast, Kirk complained that media reports of the event had not focused on his proposed solutions to reduce gun deaths. Those solutions included increasing gun ownership and fathers in the home. "Now you might say, oh Charlie, I don't want to live in that kind of militarized society," he opined. "I'm afraid we're already heading towards that, and I would rather have citizens have that ability where it's decentralized than just the government have that ability where it's centralized." The right-wing host claimed that liberals were trying to reduce gun deaths to zero, which he said was impossible. "Therefore, you have to be real," he argued. "And, of course, our hearts go out to the victims in Kentucky for every one of these situations. But we cannot allow them to emotionally hijack the narrative." "You must use reason when you look at these things," Kirk added. "A free society comes with a cost, and that cost is worth it. Liberty is worth it." The Monday shooting in Louisville resulted in at least four dead and eight injured. www.rawstory.com/charlie-kirk-louisville-shooting/
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Post by epeanymous on Apr 30, 2023 0:42:48 GMT
I'm not quote tweeting all that, but my own liberty is constrained pretty seriously by having to worry that every time I turn around in a driveway, ring a doorbell, annoy someone in traffic, ask someone to keep the noise down I'm going to anger the wrong person and get shot.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 30, 2023 0:47:43 GMT
Problem is a chunk of gun owners feel that any limitations placed on their right to own a gun is an infringement. So no matter what it is, they are against it.
When the reality is the original intent of the 2nd Amendment did not give an individual the right to own a gun. The NRA in the 1970’s started to push this notion that the 2nd Amendment did in fact did give one the right to own a gun even though it was believed and accepted that it did not. Then along comes Scalia & company that changed the original intent of the 2nd Amendment in 2008.
There was some article I read where Scalia claimed he did all this reading before he came to the conclusion that he did. He dismissed the bit about the militia in the 2nd Amendment by claiming it was an “introduction” to the right to own a gun. He then went on and said everyone for the past 218 years who didn’t believe the 2nd Amendment gave one the right to own a gun was wrong. I didn’t bookmark that article and can’t find it or I would share it here.
Anyway the problem with him claiming he did all this reading was he must have missed the parts about the debates during the Constitutional Convention and that they were about if the country should have a standing army or a militia. Apparently a lot of those folks back then didn’t trust a standing army and wanted the country protected by the militia. That is why in one of his drafts of the 2nd Amendment James Madison had a conscientious objector phase as part of it. If the original intent was to give an individual the right to own guns why even add the bit about the militia? Or consider any type of conscientious objector phrase?
The country did end up getting a standing army but there is a section in the Constitution under what Congress can do that highlights the fact they still weren’t sure they wanted a standing army.
So now we have a big fat mess and more and more people keep dying by guns every year.
The way I see it until Scalia’s decision is overturn we will not get any sort of meaningful gun laws. It would have been tough going but it could have been done by challenging the Heller decision with different laws kind of like Roe v Wade. But Thomas wrote a decision last year that may have made that impossible.
So to quote @liucyg we are doomed.
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Post by babybuttoneyes on Apr 30, 2023 1:01:07 GMT
Being Canadian, I do not ever understand why Americans say it’s a “God given” right to own guns and weapons. I really don’t believe God gave a “Right” to own murder weapons.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 30, 2023 1:01:12 GMT
I did find this from cga.ct.gov. link“Majority Reasoning” After conducting an extensive review of the Second Amendment text and historical record, Scalia concluded that the individual right interpretation is supported by (1) the historical record; (2) the amendment's drafting history; Me I guess he missed the first draft of the 2nd amendment or ignored it.and (3) interpretations of the amendment by scholars, courts, and legislators through the late nineteenth century (Id., at 2802-2812). Me: Prior to Heller’s decision the general belief by judges was the 2nd A did not give the individual the right to own guns.Operative Clause. In Scalia's view, the text and history of the amendment's operative clause (i.e., “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”) is controlling. “The people” refers to all members of the political community, not an unspecified subset, such as the militia; the phrase to “keep and bear arms” means to have weapons and carry them, and not just in a military context; and “the right of the people” refers to a preexisting right. Scalia reasons that these textual elements show that the amendment “guarantee(s) the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation,” and that the amendment's text implicitly recognizes the preexistence of the right and declares only that it “shall not be infringed” (Id., at 2790-2797). Congress merely codified a widely recognized right; it did not create a new right (Id., at 2797). Prefatory Clause. According to Scalia, the prefatory clause (“well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State”) comports with the meaning of the operative clause and refers to a well-trained citizen militia as being necessary to deny Congress the power to abridge the individual right to keep and bear arms. And while the reason for codifying the prefatory clause “was to ensure the preservation of a well-regulated militia, this does not suggest that preserving the militia was the only reason Americans valued the right to bear arms; most undoubtedly thought it even more important for self-defense and hunting” (Id., at 2801). Interpretation of the Second Amendment. Scalia argues that the individual right interpretation of the Second Amendment is supported by scholars, courts, and legislators. Also, none of the Supreme Court's precedents forecloses the Court's individual right interpretation. He rejects Stevens' notion that that Miller (United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939)) held that the Second Amendment “protects the right to keep and bear arms for certain military purposes, but that it does not curtail the legislature's power to regulate the nonmilitary use and ownership of weapons” (Heller, at 2814). Miller “did not hold that and cannot possible be read to have held that. . . It is particularly wrongheaded to read Miller for more than what is said, because the case did not even purport to be a thorough examination of the Second Amendment” (Id., at 2814). Rather, the Miller holding is consistent with and “positively suggests, that the Second Amendment confers an individual right to keep and bear arms (though only arms that “have some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia”) (Id., at 2814).”
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Post by gar on Apr 30, 2023 21:15:04 GMT
I didn’t realise he was on the run 😐
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Post by Bridget in MD on May 3, 2023 1:12:14 GMT
I just saw they have him in custody! So glad he was caught.
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edie3
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,466
Jun 26, 2014 1:03:18 GMT
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Post by edie3 on May 3, 2023 1:14:56 GMT
You know the irony of him being found? He was in the town of Cut and Shoot, Texas.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 3, 2023 1:38:57 GMT
Waiting for a positive ID. "A person believed to be Francisco Oropesa, 38, was arrested in the city of Cut and Shoot, Texas, San Jacinto County District Attorney Todd Dillon said," said the report. "Authorities are awaiting fingerprints to confirm the person arrested is Oropesa, Dillon said. He has been taken to the Montgomery County Jail and is charged with first-degree murder, he said. The FBI said it was planning a news conference Tuesday evening about the case." "If confirmed to be Oropesa, the arrest brings an end to the sprawling search that involved more than 250 law enforcement officers, the FBI and a reward of $80,000 for information," sadi the report. "The arrest comes four days after the Friday night carnage in which Oropesa went to the home in the Trails End area in Cleveland, about 45 miles north of Houston, and opened fire, the San Jacinto County Sheriff's Office said." www.rawstory.com/texas-shooter-captured/
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Post by Merge on May 3, 2023 1:57:12 GMT
You know the irony of him being found? He was in the town of Cut and Shoot, Texas. And now the whole world knows of the existence of Cut and Shoot. MoCo's very best.
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Post by librarylady on May 3, 2023 2:55:44 GMT
You know the irony of him being found? He was in the town of Cut and Shoot, Texas. And now the whole world knows of the existence of Cut and Shoot. MoCo's very best. Cut and Shoot first became known because it was the hometown of a boxer, Roy Harris.
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Post by rahnee on May 3, 2023 3:21:27 GMT
We love Hawaii and while there is less gun violence there, I think we will take our chances with Mexico than with some chimpanzee on a rampage. All “legal” and illegal gun holders are lesser primates. Want to be smart? Get rid of your gun. I take exception to your sweeping generalization. What should a rancher use to get rid of coyotes, or put a broken-legged horse out of his misery? What should a person living in a secluded location have to protect himself/herself against marauding thieves? What should a wheelchair-bound person use for self-defense in the event of a break-in? I believe there is a place for responsible gun ownership. More guns are not working in the US. Less guns are working in other countries. Stop making excuses. I can count on no hands how many times I've needed a gun to protect myself. And even if I did need a gun to protect myself, they are not going to wait for me to get it out of a gun safe before attacking. And this is where it would be if I was a responsible gun owner, not loaded under my pillow. And for what reason does anyone need an AR-15. Your country is being destroyed by these excuses.
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Post by lucyg on May 3, 2023 5:14:16 GMT
I take exception to your sweeping generalization. What should a rancher use to get rid of coyotes, or put a broken-legged horse out of his misery? What should a person living in a secluded location have to protect himself/herself against marauding thieves? What should a wheelchair-bound person use for self-defense in the event of a break-in? I believe there is a place for responsible gun ownership. More guns are not working in the US. Less guns are working in other countries. Stop making excuses. I can count on no hands how many times I've needed a gun to protect myself. And even if I did need a gun to protect myself, they are not going to wait for me to get it out of a gun safe before attacking. And this is where it would be if I was a responsible gun owner, not loaded under my pillow. And for what reason does anyone need an AR-15. Your country is being destroyed by these excuses. She didn’t say “get rid of your assault weapons.” She said “get rid of your guns.” The problem isn’t so much the presence of guns in and of themselves as it is the proliferation of AK47-type assault weapons that can take out large numbers of people in a short time, coupled with the obsession with owning them that has exploded within a certain segment of the population, plus mental illness, the political divide, and the growing copycat effect every time there’s another mass shooting. Telling random peas to get rid of their guns (whether they own any or not) doesn’t solve any of these issues. Coming from people who live overseas with different laws and different customs, it’s kind of laughable. We know we have a big problem. But you really aren’t helping any here.
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Post by katlady on May 3, 2023 6:22:34 GMT
Just adding to what lucyg said, the bullet from an assault style rifle travels at a very fast speed. The bullet destroys what it hits, which is why injuries from being shot by these guns is so much worse than a slower speed gun.
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Post by rahnee on May 3, 2023 6:27:09 GMT
More guns are not working in the US. Less guns are working in other countries. Stop making excuses. I can count on no hands how many times I've needed a gun to protect myself. And even if I did need a gun to protect myself, they are not going to wait for me to get it out of a gun safe before attacking. And this is where it would be if I was a responsible gun owner, not loaded under my pillow. And for what reason does anyone need an AR-15. Your country is being destroyed by these excuses. She didn’t say “get rid of your assault weapons.” She said “get rid of your guns.” The problem isn’t so much the presence of guns in and of themselves as it is the proliferation of AK47-type assault weapons that can take out large numbers of people in a short time, coupled with the obsession with owning them that has exploded within a certain segment of the population, plus mental illness, the political divide, and the growing copycat effect every time there’s another mass shooting. Telling random peas to get rid of their guns (whether they own any or not) doesn’t solve any of these issues. Coming from people who live overseas with different laws and different customs, it’s kind of laughable. We know we have a big problem. But you really aren’t helping any here. The problem is guns. Not every shooting is an assault rifle, although I can't comprehend any reason these are available. I've just watched a video of a Little League game with children crawling off the field because there are teenagers shooting in a carpark nearby. That one made me cry. In the last few days I've read about a boy being shot because he went to the wrong address to pick up his brothers, two girls shot because they accidently got in the wrong car, another girl shot because she the car she was in turned into the wrong driveway, a man shot by his neighbour for using a leaf blower in the driveway. Its time to do something about it rather than make excuses. These responsible gun owners are shooting people because they expect that everyone has a gun and that their life is in danger. There shouldn't be that expectation. If someone knocks on my door that I don't know, I open it. I don't expect they have a gun and are there to kill me, because guns aren't prevalent. Other countries are issuing travel warnings about the US. The reason we have different laws is because we acted on it as soon as it became an issue. I can't understand why you all just haven't had enough of this. In fact it seems to be going the other way with some states making it even easier to carry concealed loaded weapons with no permits and no checks. Every country has mental illness. You're not unique. The difference is that they mentally ill have access to guns in your country.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on May 3, 2023 7:21:10 GMT
Rarely a day goes by when I don’t thank my lucky stars that we have stringent rules about guns in the UK.
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Post by Bridget in MD on May 3, 2023 11:48:26 GMT
This story mentions his wife also went to the home he was found: www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/us/cleveland-texas-shooting-fransisco-oropesa-arrest-wednesday/index.htmlLaw enforcement found the 38-year-old Mexican national stowed under a pile of laundry in the closet of a home, San Jacinto County Sheriff Greg Capers said Tuesday. Law enforcement also tracked Oropesa’s wife to the home, which is associated with one of the suspect’s family members, a law enforcement source told CNN. but then later the same article says "It’s not clear if law enforcement had tracked Oropesa’s wife to the home before or after the tip was sent to the FBI." Man, if she had anything to do with trying to help him escape, I hope she is charged too! The article mentions he had entered the US illegally several times, and been deported 4 times too. "Authorities now have 90 days to indict Oropesa, a law enforcement source involved said. Due to his status as a Mexican national, the Mexican consulate will be formally notified of his circumstances on Wednesday, the law enforcement source said. At least four times since 2009, Oropesa had entered the US unlawfully and been deported, according to an ICE source. An immigration judge first removed him in March 2009 before he was deported again in September 2009, January 2012 and July 2016, the source said. It’s unclear how long Oropesa had been in the US before last week’s attack." Does that mean Mexico has to extridit him/carry out punishment/trials, etc? Or will he serve time in the US? I was wondering what that means? I assume it means he is not a US citizen, but since he committed a really awful crime on US soil, will he be sent back to Mexico for them to handle it, or will he be tried and sentenced here? (This is NOT really an immigration debate, I am just asking a question on how the whole thing works).
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Post by epeanymous on May 3, 2023 15:47:02 GMT
Rarely a day goes by when I don’t thank my lucky stars that we have stringent rules about guns in the UK. As a person who hates guns and grew up pretty scared of my dad's gun (he had a loaded, unsecured handgun and a substance use disorder, which is not an awesome combo), I am jealous of countries that tightly restrict gun ownership. We have so many guns here now, however, that I think good regulation is the best we'd be able to do at this point.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on May 3, 2023 18:51:13 GMT
And here we go again, this time in Atlanta. Another tragedy, and nothing will be done.
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Post by onelasttime on May 3, 2023 20:22:04 GMT
I live in the United States and we have a gun problem. If every AR-15 type gun magically disappeared tomorrow we would still have a gun problem.
Let’s be clear here that the only purpose of a gun is to kill. They have no other purpose.
I get there are legitimate reasons for one to own a gun. Best reason I heard was from a pea on this board or the old one. She said they had a rifle to shoot the rattlesnake that come up her driveway. As much as I hate guns that is a reason why I would own one.
But here are some interesting facts.
* The US has 4% of the global population but have 40% of the global non military guns. The best estimate is between 30% - 40% of the US population own guns. With an estimated population of around 320,000,000 and say 40% of the population own guns that means roughly 128,000,000 residents of this country own 40% of all the non military guns in the world.
* The AFT is releasing a comprehensive study on Commerce in Firearms in the US and Diversion of Firearms to Illegal Markets for the period of 2017 to 2021. They are releasing it in parts. The first part was released in 2022 and the second part was released earlier this year. The report is called NFCTA and being released in 4 volumes two of which have already been released.
The highlights of this report include:
* Citizens aka responsible gun owners end up supplying roughly 250,000 guns a year to criminals.
* The number of guns reported stolen from parked cars on streets or public garages has increased by 70%.
* The average number of guns owned by gun owners is between 5-6.
* Study found that the people with the most guns were the ones likely to lose them.
* To add to all the guns already out there, ghost guns are becoming a big thing.
I have been checking for the last several years on the number of guns stolen from responsible gun owners and it has been between 250,000 - 300,000 a year. But the scary thing besides the number of reported stolen guns, it’s felt that number is pretty close to the number of guns stolen each year but not reported. The only number I could find for the recovery rate of reported stolen guns is 11%.
IMO the majority of gun owners fall into 2 categories. The “what if” category and the “just in case” category meaning they really don’t have a need for a gun but want to own not just one gun but multiple guns. And that is a problem. It’s from this group that guns are mostly stolen.
Besides arming criminals and I’m adding gang members to that. This group is more likely to leave loaded guns around where little fingers can find them and end up shooting themselves or another child or individual that happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong when those little fingers pull the trigger.
Then there is suicide. How many people have committed suicide with a gun because a gun was handy in the household at the time when these folks reach the lowest level that makes them think of suicide? And maybe, just maybe if a gun hadn’t been so readily available these folks would be alive getting the help they need.
Add to that the recent shootings involving road rage, going to the wrong front door by mistake, getting in the wrong car by mistake, turning into the wrong driveway. These people shot first and asked questions later.
Then we have the damage from stolen guns. Gang violence and robberies gone wrong or just some evil person who gets a kick out of killing.
And it’s becoming clear that guns from this country are helping to arm the Drug Cartels in Mexico. That makes it easier for well armed cartels to smuggle drugs into this country.
Again there are a legitimate reasons to own a gun or guns. But too many gun owners don’t have a reason. Which means there are too many guns “out there” for no reason other than I want one or two or three guns. Which means there are more chances for tragic accidents involving kids, more chances for guns to be stolen and used in a crime or gang violence and more chances for an individual to actually commit suicide instead of just thinking about it.
So yes there is a gun problem in the United States and it’s innocent people paying the ultimate price because of this problem. A problem that exists with or without AR-15 and mass shootings.
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Post by katlady on May 3, 2023 21:40:36 GMT
OMG! There was a mass shooting in Serbia. A 13-year old shot and killed 8 school mates. He had made a list of intended targets. The whole world is crazy!! www.yahoo.com/news/teenage-boy-opens-fire-school-074031270.htmlETA - I am going to say it, but I think social media has a lot to do with these shootings. Kids and young people get influenced by what they see, and they are on social media for way too many hours. The article says that Serbia has a lot of guns, but mass shooting is very rare.
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