pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,064
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on May 22, 2023 22:18:31 GMT
Ugh the Anti-TEMU/AE/WISH posts on Instagram from the cardmaking celebs and design team members are really irking me today. I get it, I really do.
I also wish there could be a civil conversation about the outrageous prices companies are charging...which was happening long before "inflation". The complaining just seems so one sided. Why is a $70 stamp and die set from SSS just accepted as reasonable?
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azcrafty
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,955
Jun 28, 2019 20:24:21 GMT
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Post by azcrafty on May 23, 2023 2:08:13 GMT
Prices will drive more ppl to the cheap sites.
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penny8909
Shy Member
Posts: 39
May 18, 2018 5:21:38 GMT
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Post by penny8909 on May 23, 2023 9:20:38 GMT
I understand and share your frustration with high prices. This is a hobby. When I see products that are too pricey I don't buy them. I am not going to pay %70 for a card and die set. But I won't spend $20 to buy a rip off of that design
the solution is to buy from legitimate sites that sell original products at prices that you find acceptable. It isn't to buy stolen property.
In my view it really is that simple.
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Post by twillerbee on May 23, 2023 14:44:50 GMT
I understand and share your frustration with high prices. This is a hobby. When I see products that are too pricey I don't buy them. I am not going to pay %70 for a card and die set. But I won't spend $20 to buy a rip off of that design the solution is to buy from legitimate sites that sell original products at prices that you find acceptable. It isn't to buy stolen property. In my view it really is that simple. I agree with you completely on this. Its really that simple. And you are also risking your information if you buy from Temu. See this article. why you need to avoid temu
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GiantsFan
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Jun 27, 2014 14:44:56 GMT
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Post by GiantsFan on May 23, 2023 15:15:29 GMT
I'm all for the PSA's lately. I don't buy from discounts sites. I want to support the original designers and companies. I don't want to lose anymore craft companies because people are buying knock-offs. I want to keep fresh designs coming from legit designers.
I do get it. The US made products are expensive. And I've complained about it here. But you (general you) can't fight for living wages for workers in the US and then complain about the cost of the products, so you buy from a foreign company who pays their workers a cheap wage. (At one point in my career I worked for a tech company and I was making 4 times as much as my counterpart at our China location. It was a high-level management position.)
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scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,449
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on May 23, 2023 16:32:25 GMT
I understand and share your frustration with high prices. This is a hobby. When I see products that are too pricey I don't buy them. I am not going to pay $70 for a card and die set. But I won't spend $20 to buy a rip off of that design. This is the way I look at it. Most designers today probably get a fairly small percentage of the products that incorporate their designs. It‘s worth it as long as they get high sales of the products made with their designs. Design work takes time, effort, and creativity, and sometimes a bit of blood, sweat, and tears. It’s not unreasonable to expect others to pay for your design work. The manufacturers who use those designs get their piece of the pie, and so do the stores, and perhaps even a few others in between. If a foreign company steals and copies their designs, the designers get nothing. If you appreciate someone’s designs, shouldn’t you buy from the legitimate companies that actually pay them for their work?
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Post by wendifful on May 23, 2023 17:15:44 GMT
Most designers today probably get a fairly small percentage of the products that incorporate their designs. It‘s worth it as long as they get high sales of the products made with their designs. Design work takes time, effort, and creativity, and sometimes a bit of blood, sweat, and tears. It’s not unreasonable to expect others to pay for your design work. The manufacturers who use those designs get their piece of the pie, and so do the stores, and perhaps even a few others in between. If a foreign company steals and copies their designs, the designers get nothing. If you appreciate someone’s designs, shouldn’t you buy from the legitimate companies that actually pay them for their work? I think another aspect that we (the general public) take for granted is the design team (as opposed to product designers, although they can sometimes be the same people). Take Simon Says Stamp's latest release on Friday. They had two days of blog hops, with a total of 27 blog posts, which each person had to be paid for. (I'm assuming SSS pays their DT and doesn't just "pay" in free product.) Here on the board, how many times have we seen people post about the upsides/downsides of being on a DT? Usually the responses to that post are that you're probably not going to get paid enough for your time, so don't do it unless you LOVE the brand and are okay with not making much money. If we want people on DTs to be compensated fairly, we have to realize that the price of a product is not just the raw material cost, it also includes design work, plus marketing, packaging, website infrastructure and so much more. I had an interesting experience last year that made me realize the value of design teams. For a while there, I was really interested in Sizzix designs. They do have some beautiful dies, especially florals, and I was quite taken with a few designs. But, aside from the samples made for the packaging, there seemed to be no design inspiration anywhere. Sizzix has in-house designers and from what I can gather, they sometimes make projects, but not for every die set and the samples can be hard to find. For several die sets I was interested in, even by googling, I could only find the packaging sample. Contrast that with a brand like SSS where the product page will often have 5+ project samples or Spellbinders, where I can google something like "glimmer of the month april 2023" and have several examples of how the kit is used. But since Sizzix didn't have samples, I ended up passing on several dies. Having said that, it's not that I think all craft companies are perfect. In their latest release, SSS is selling a set of three wooden clothespins with custom engraved designs to use for heat embossing. For three wooden clothespins, they are asking $10. In the SSS live, Heidi stressed that these are made in the USA and honestly, I don't doubt that they are and that they have the standard markup %. But I would never pay $10 for 3 clothespins, no matter how cute. And although I don't think capitalism is always right, in this case, the market is probably going to be self-correcting in that people won't buy these clothespins, SSS will end up having to mark them down and they'll learn a lesson as to what won't succeed with their consumers. I can roll my eyes at SSS thinking that these would be a hot seller at the pricepoint, but I don't think they created the product maliciously with an intent to gouge their customers, just that they made a bad judgement call.
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Post by MichyM on May 23, 2023 17:31:38 GMT
I don't want to derail the topic too much, but when I see all these pricey "hold my paper while I heat emboss tools" from the various companies I wonder: am I the only one who just uses her reverse tweezers for that? It's one less tool to try and keep track of, which is a good thing for me.
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,241
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on May 23, 2023 18:10:48 GMT
But if they were Tim Holtz distressed clothespins....
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Post by MichyM on May 23, 2023 21:05:19 GMT
But if they were Tim Holtz distressed clothespins.... Ok, I've read this three times and don't understand. Can you help a girl out?
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,064
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on May 23, 2023 21:16:04 GMT
The US made products are expensive. And I've complained about it here. But you (general you) can't fight for living wages for workers in the US and then complain about the cost of the products, so you buy from a foreign company who pays their workers a cheap wage. (At one point in my career I worked for a tech company and I was making 4 times as much as my counterpart at our China location. It was a high-level management position.) This just doesn't apply to most of the stamp companies that's why I say there needs to be a real conversation about prices. I believe almost all of the photopolymer stamps are made in the US. And for the most part, I don't have any issues with the prices of stamps. However, dies are another story. I believe most of these companies have their dies manufactured in China. According to Gina K (who says her dies are manufactured in China) the minimum order for dies from a US manufacturer is so high that most small stamp companies just simply cannot afford it. A majority of the companies get their dies manufactured in China which is why I say there needs to be a conversation about the cost of dies. I tried looking at SSS, Hero Arts and Honey Bee to see where their dies are made. I couldn't find anything on their website. Pink Fresh Studio is the only company I found that states their dies are made in China.
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GiantsFan
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Jun 27, 2014 14:44:56 GMT
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Post by GiantsFan on May 23, 2023 21:41:45 GMT
The US made products are expensive. And I've complained about it here. But you (general you) can't fight for living wages for workers in the US and then complain about the cost of the products, so you buy from a foreign company who pays their workers a cheap wage. (At one point in my career I worked for a tech company and I was making 4 times as much as my counterpart at our China location. It was a high-level management position.) This just doesn't apply to most of the stamp companies that's why I say there needs to be a real conversation about prices. I believe almost all of the photopolymer stamps are made in the US. And for the most part, I don't have any issues with the prices of stamps. However, dies are another story. I believe most of these companies have their dies manufactured in China. According to Gina K (who says her dies are manufactured in China) the minimum order for dies from a US manufacturer is so high that most small stamp companies just simply cannot afford it. A majority of the companies get their dies manufactured in China which is why I say there needs to be a conversation about the cost of dies. I tried looking at SSS, Hero Arts and Honey Bee to see where their dies are made. I couldn't find anything on their website. Pink Fresh Studio is the only company I found that states their dies are made in China. I have no idea where dies are made and honestly it doesn't matter. "Any Stamp Company" still has to design (or purchase a design), have the tool made to make the dies, purchase the end product from the manufacturer, pay for shipping (from China or US manufacturer), pay rent on their warehouse/store, utilities, labor costs to receive the products, labor costs to fulfill orders, and other general admin costs. I'm probably forgetting something because it's been a few years. My point is is that there are more costs associated with a product than just the product. (Cost accounting was one of my specialties back in the day.) I won't disagree that dies are expensive. That's why I've been going old school and doing a lot of fussy cutting lately.
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GiantsFan
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,503
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Jun 27, 2014 14:44:56 GMT
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Post by GiantsFan on May 23, 2023 21:46:00 GMT
I don't want to derail the topic too much, but when I see all these pricey "hold my paper while I heat emboss tools" from the various companies I wonder: am I the only one who just uses her reverse tweezers for that? It's one less tool to try and keep track of, which is a good thing for me. I have a small box lid that has aluminum foil in the bottom. I put my embossing in there and heat it in the box. I think having the foil on the bottom heats the back of the paper and it warps less. I use reverse tweezers if the item is small. This is not my original idea. I got this method from Ardyth.
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FurryP
Drama Llama
To pea or not to pea...
Posts: 7,280
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Jun 26, 2014 19:58:26 GMT
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Post by FurryP on May 23, 2023 21:53:43 GMT
But if they were Tim Holtz distressed clothespins....
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,241
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on May 23, 2023 22:19:44 GMT
Ok, I've read this three times and don't understand. Can you help a girl out? Just a little snide commentary on how the TH/Distress branding seems to bring out a very manic form of must have it all/full set syndrome in a subset of crafters.
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Post by papersilly on May 24, 2023 18:19:07 GMT
Ok, I've read this three times and don't understand. Can you help a girl out? Just a little snide commentary on how the TH/Distress branding seems to bring out a very manic form of must have it all/full set syndrome in a subset of crafters. i can totally understand that. watching his live product release videos you can see what a great salesman he is. talk about FOMO. you end off feeling you need to get it all because the products compliment each other. i've learned to take a breath and walk it off. otherwise i would be burning a hole through my CC.
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Post by kmage on May 25, 2023 1:51:26 GMT
Just a little snide commentary on how the TH/Distress branding seems to bring out a very manic form of must have it all/full set syndrome in a subset of crafters. i can totally understand that. watching his live product release videos you can see what a great salesman he is. talk about FOMO. you end off feeling you need to get it all because the products compliment each other. i've learned to take a breath and walk it off. otherwise i would be burning a hole through my CC. I am not even a typical TH "fangirl" and he does that to me. He seems so logical and reasonable, and his stuff is so cool that i end up wanting it. Plus I like his hands. Crafty ladies fingernails in videos eek me out.
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Post by papersilly on May 25, 2023 3:11:15 GMT
Crafty ladies fingernails in videos eek me out. Me too! Whew, thought it was just me. Lol
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,241
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on May 25, 2023 9:54:10 GMT
I am irrationally irritated and repelled by the hype and have not ever even watched him at all.
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Post by 950nancy on May 25, 2023 13:38:49 GMT
I did buy one die set from Ali years ago. It was a $7 set with three dies. Pretty expensive for them at the time. It cut perfectly and was so pretty. The original set was $75. No way I would have spent that. I haven't bought dies from there since though.
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scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,449
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on May 25, 2023 14:36:18 GMT
Back to the cost of dies and whether they are US made or not.
Queen & Co. hasn’t specifically said where they get their dies made (which are their own original designs), but from some things said on their Facebook page, I suspect that theirs are made in China. However, their dies are at least a reasonable price. If a kit is $70, it includes several dies, foam for the shakers, a custom designed paper pad, a set of photopolymer phrase stamps, and shaker fillings.
Heartfelt Creations makes matching stamps and dies. They are a family owned business, just like Queen & Co. Their stamps are red rubber, foam mounted, and they have matching dies that are the higher quality, similar to Spellbinders dies. In fact, Spellbinders originally made the dies they originally sold. They just made stamps to coordinate with the dies. They are more expensive, but the higher quality made me willing to buy from them. I think theirs are made in the US, although I don’t remember if they have ever specifically said. I expect to pay more for their stamps and dies, because of the higher quality.
Unfortunately, Heartfelt Creations will be closing their doors in the not too distant future, probably by the end of the year, according to an announcement they recently made. They said it was due to family needs, but I can’t help wonder if Chinese competition has also made it harder for them to keep going. I haven’t bought much from either of these two companies recently, but mainly because our income dropped, living needs cost more, and I have such a huge stash already. However, I am not buying Chinese knock offs even though I have less money to spend. I’d rather save up and buy from the American companies that I love. I want to help them stay in business.
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Post by scrappyem on May 25, 2023 15:50:37 GMT
I've purchased a few generic "shapes" dies from Ali but I typically forget all about them. I don't feel as guilty about generic shapes vs an actual design like some of the lovely floral dies by Altanew or somewhere. I have a tiny collection of dies but I do think part of that is because they are so expensive and I feel like I"ll get sick of the design really fast so it's not worth the $ for despite how pretty they can be. Using my Cricut & purchasing SVG files from designers works better for me personally, personality wise, and for my pocketbook.
Temu everything looks so cheap to me so I didn't order anything despite some browsing. I don't like dollar stores for the same reason (and my MIL loves to buy that stuff for the kids, which I in turn end up donating if possible but mostly throwing away because everything breaks immediately, it drives me bananas). I don't want to end up with a bunch of stuff, no matter how cheap, that I'm just going to be throwing away. I know some people find and make awesome stuff from the Dollar Stores but I've never had any luck with that and I think Temu would be the same for me. The Dollar Store goblins have never been good to me.
I do think it's important to buy American, pay artists for their work, know that you are going to pay more and I just accept that as part of my values/choice. But I come from a place of privilege so I can make that choice and this is just a hobby. I think there's a lot to unpack here and I don't know what the answer is. I wish I did and could wave a magic wand and everyone would be paid fairly from designers, to DT members, to scrapbook store owners. Heck I wish that for all of us.
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Post by marg on May 25, 2023 17:14:49 GMT
I've bought dies from AliExpress - I've bought the stitched rectangles, circles, ovals. I already owned the plain, standard shapes from Spellbinders, I bought them at least a decade ago. I do prefer the sets of nesting dies from Hero Arts or Spellbinders - you get a ton in a set and you know they're perfectly sized to layer. The rectangles I ordered from AliExpress weren't the sizes I prefer, my own fault for not checking when I ordered. I just don't find their stuff true to size, I guess.
I tried out Temu a few weeks ago on a whim - I got a Temu crafty haul video in my YouTube feed and some of the stuff did look good, like these foldable crates for die storage, among other things. I spent $20 on Temu and got a ton of stuff, stuff I didn't even want but I had to place a $20 minimum order and then kept getting automatic discounts so had to add another thing to make the minimum. I ended up ordering new scissors for my kitchen to finally make up the difference lol. They're really good scissors, actually. And I bought a circle cutter for about $3 that cuts perfectly and is small and compact, so I'm super happy with that purchase. I personally didn't come across anything on there that was proprietary, but I also didn't look. I got some labels for the backs of my cards that say "homemade with love", too.
I do prefer to support American manufacturing (even though I'm Canadian, there's no Canadian manufacturing that I know of for craft supplies), though. I'd like to rely less on China if we can, they're too enmeshed in our economy as it is.
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Post by MichyM on May 25, 2023 18:02:57 GMT
Ok, I've read this three times and don't understand. Can you help a girl out? Just a little snide commentary on how the TH/Distress branding seems to bring out a very manic form of must have it all/full set syndrome in a subset of crafters. Gotcha. I don't think I've ever watched a TH video, so it went right over my head.
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Post by Restless Spirit on May 25, 2023 18:52:35 GMT
Unpopular opinion
I’ve purchased more than my fair share of Brand name stamps and dies - TH, SU, Hero Arts, etc. I was more than happy to purchase from US companies and products. With that said, over the last few years, I have moved from scrapbooking to cardmaking and now I mostly do junk journals, and glue books.
I really do not need or want high priced paper crafting items. I am a senior citizen so economically it doesn’t make sense. Plus when I am gone everything will go to the Goodwill. There’s no point in buying expensive products. I purchase a lot of inexpensive paper crafting items from Amazon and have placed one order with Shein. The cheap products have been a few cutting dies and polymer stamps, plus washi tape, stickers, and very small pieces of crafting paper. Are any of these products dupes of higher priced manufacturers? I really don’t have any idea. I am not intentionally sourcing a cheap alternative to a US patented design. But, I really don’t have the time or energy to try to track down every single item and see if it’s a copyrighted design. It is just not feasible.
I know I sound like I’m trying to justify buying stolen designs. The fact is I really don’t have any idea if they are stolen or not. All I know is the price point is what matters the most to me knowing that all of my little journals are going to be tossed upon my death.
I am really close to wanting to buy some items from Temu. I am in a lot of junk journaling, and glue book Facebook groups, and the products seem ideal for my needs. I *am* concerned about making sure my banking information doesn’t get stolen so that’s my only hesitation.
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