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Post by busy on May 27, 2023 18:27:34 GMT
A good friend's child who is about to graduate from high school was just diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. It took some time to get to this diagnosis - she'd been on anxiety meds but they weren't helping. The daughter had seen a few therapists over the years, but didn't really connect with anyone, so it's not been very consistent. Her GP is who put her on the anxiety meds. When nothing was improving, my friend asked for advice about and I suggested seeing a psychiatrist, and that's where this diagnosis came from. (I also suggested getting a second opinion after receiving the diagnosis.) They're feeling a bit overwhelmed and both parents come from families that are more "stiff upper lip" kinds - they're open to treatment for their daughter, of course, but talking about it and admitting it's needed is hard for them. This is all very new to them and at their core, I think they're having a hard time thinking this isn't their fault somehow.
Anyway, she's asked me for some help because I've dealt with varying degrees of depression for a long time, and DS has anxiety. So I guess she thinks I know something, but I know nothing about BPD (and have said that). I'd still like to help her with information, though.
Does anyone with experience with it have resources they could suggest that I could pass along? Anything at all that might be useful? She's afraid to Google - and I think it's best she doesn't right now - but would love to point her in the direction of some quality information/groups/etc.
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Post by whipea on May 27, 2023 19:50:58 GMT
Full disclosure, I am not a psychologist or therapist, but this is from personal experience, my close friend's wife has BPD.
To be honest, his situation is brutal. His wife is unpredictable, screams at him, sometimes calls him at work 20-30 times a day, calls his friends and screams at us about him being stupid and ugly and why do we remain his friend. She is delusional and totally self-involved (apparently narcissistic personality component is common in Borderlines) and pushes him away yet is terrified of him leaving. But that is his situation with this disorder. Also, it is my understanding that since it is a Personality Disorder, it is not treatable but can be somewhat managed.
There is a good book about BPD, "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me", gave me perspective of his experiences. He does not socialize with her and his his friends as no one wants to subjected to her behavior. Interpersonal relationships are a struggle with Borderlines. I can provide dozens of examples of her behavior, some I have seen and heard, very disturbing and I really wonder why he stays with her.
The one time we tried to support my friend in his relationship and invited them over for dinner. Apparently due to her behavior before they left home they were 2 hours late. When they finally arrived the first thing she said, not hello, apologies for being late or anything else just, "when I walk into a department store, the clerks all stop and stare and tell me I am the perfect size zero". We provided special food for her which she refused and spent the evening in the bathroom texting her husband.
She is pretty deep end, cannot maintain employment or relationships. From what I have witnessed it is an insidious disorder.
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 27, 2023 20:12:51 GMT
My ex-MIL had this disorder. It was brutal being in a relationship with her. I second the recommendation for the book I Hate You, Don't Leave Me. I was in an outpatient group treatment program for 2.5 weeks in 2018, one of the participants had this disorder and she was being referred to DBT following her discharge. So I know at least that the doctors and therapists in the program there (I received excellent treatment too) recommended this course of action.
That's my limited experience with this disorder. I don't think it's healthy to place blame. So I would stress to them that there will never be any way of knowing what caused this. With that said, I placed a whole lot of blame on myself for passing down bipolar to my kids. I do believe my family is a case study in genetic mental illness. I was not diagnosed when I had my kids and I'm unclear on whether diagnosis would have impacted my decision to have children. But I am the parent and of course, I spent some time blaming myself.
I recommend that they get some counseling too.
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Post by busy on May 27, 2023 20:19:05 GMT
Thank you for sharing whipea That sounds just awful My friend's daughter is outwardly charming and delightful - well liked, polite, lots of friends who she has been able to maintain friendships with, excellent student until this year. Above a 4.0 GPA going into her senior year, and this year - when it seems like this has really shown itself - her grades are in the toilet. She's graduating but she has to retake two classes in summer school. Most of her behavior is directed inward - she's engaged in cutting and other self-harm, has an eating disorder, panic attacks, extreme anxiety, etc. She is emotionally volatile but lashes out at herself, not others. I don't live close by and I suspect I'm not hearing the even more troubling things. I love them all and am sad for them. I hope they find excellent care providers and manage this well. It's got to be very scary.
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Post by busy on May 27, 2023 20:23:08 GMT
Thank you jeremysgirl I just sent her the book you both recommended. I already suggested they (the parents) get counseling as well - it was helpful for DH and I when DS was diagnosed with anxiety quite young. I hope the follow through, as I know it's not something they are comfortable with.
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Post by lanena on May 27, 2023 20:52:08 GMT
Has your friend been in touch with NAMI? They offer lots of resources for parents of children with a mental illness. I took a class from them years ago that was very helpful, and it also put me in touch with other parents going through a lot of the same things.
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 27, 2023 20:58:46 GMT
Thank you for sharing whipea That sounds just awful My friend's daughter is outwardly charming and delightful - well liked, polite, lots of friends who she has been able to maintain friendships with, excellent student until this year. Above a 4.0 GPA going into her senior year, and this year - when it seems like this has really shown itself - her grades are in the toilet. She's graduating but she has to retake two classes in summer school. Most of her behavior is directed inward - she's engaged in cutting and other self-harm, has an eating disorder, panic attacks, extreme anxiety, etc. She is emotionally volatile but lashes out at herself, not others. I don't live close by and I suspect I'm not hearing the even more troubling things. I love them all and am sad for them. I hope they find excellent care providers and manage this well. It's got to be very scary. I highly highly recommend a second opinion. I'm unfortunately related to someone with BPD and the narcissism and lack of empathy makes sustaining long term relationships extremely difficult. The last few years have been brutally difficult for young people. One of my kid's colleges did a survey and an astonishing number are suffering from depression and anxiety. I also know too many with eating disorders, anxiety and cutting and most do NOT have BPD - best of luck to your friend's family, it is not easy to get the correct diagnosis and treatment. Senior year is INCREDIBLY difficult - really incredibly for many high performance kids - many self sabotage to avoid the stress and anxiety around what comes next. I truly hope they can find a good therapist who can connect with their daughter.
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Post by busy on May 27, 2023 21:06:15 GMT
Has your friend been in touch with NAMI? They offer lots of resources for parents of children with a mental illness. I took a class from them years ago that was very helpful, and it also put me in touch with other parents going through a lot of the same things. No - she just found out yesterday. I’ll suggest it to her though. Thank you!
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Post by busy on May 27, 2023 21:07:45 GMT
Thank you for sharing whipea That sounds just awful My friend's daughter is outwardly charming and delightful - well liked, polite, lots of friends who she has been able to maintain friendships with, excellent student until this year. Above a 4.0 GPA going into her senior year, and this year - when it seems like this has really shown itself - her grades are in the toilet. She's graduating but she has to retake two classes in summer school. Most of her behavior is directed inward - she's engaged in cutting and other self-harm, has an eating disorder, panic attacks, extreme anxiety, etc. She is emotionally volatile but lashes out at herself, not others. I don't live close by and I suspect I'm not hearing the even more troubling things. I love them all and am sad for them. I hope they find excellent care providers and manage this well. It's got to be very scary. I highly highly recommend a second opinion. I'm unfortunately related to someone with BPD and the narcissism and lack of empathy makes sustaining long term relationships extremely difficult. The last few years have been brutally difficult for young people. One of my kid's colleges did a survey and an astonishing number are suffering from depression and anxiety. I also know too many with eating disorders, anxiety and cutting and most do NOT have BPD - best of luck to your friend's family, it is not easy to get the correct diagnosis and treatment. Senior year is INCREDIBLY difficult - really incredibly for many high performance kids - many self sabotage to avoid the stress and anxiety around what comes next. I truly hope they can find a good therapist who can connect with their daughter. Agree with you 100% and already recommended pretty strongly that the get a second opinion.
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Post by Merge on May 27, 2023 21:53:53 GMT
So this is my daughter's primary diagnosis now. They're moving away from bipolar and more strongly toward BPD. This is the the daughter who recently attempted suicide and spent five days in the hospital, but on the other hand managed to graduate from college in all of that. There's more, so much more that I haven't shared here and don't intend to. Suffice to say that our lives are constant emotional chaos because we never know when the next crisis will occur or how bad it will be.
I'll be honest: when we first got this tentative diagnosis and I read more about it, and got involved with a couple of online support groups, I cried for days. This is not a struggle anyone wants for their child. BPD patients have high rates of suicide, substance abuse, and self harm. They often have trouble making and maintaining lasting relationships and many have difficulty maintaining employment. I found the books that were supposed to be helpful were actually very discouraging and made these kids out to be monsters, which was not something I wanted to read, but your friend may feel differently.
There's also a strong stigma attached to the disorder, as it was believed for years that it was caused by neglectful/abusive parenting. The psychiatric community now leans towards this being a genetic disorder that is often exacerbated by certain traumatic events or types of parenting that would be considered "good" parenting for any other child, like setting boundaries and loss of privileges for poor behavior. BPD kids and young people need to be parented in a very different way.
My daughter is currently on an anti-psychotic which seems to help with the negative behaviors and the lies her brain tells her (BPD patients often believe that everyone hates them, that their family and best friends don't want to see them, and other stuff). She also takes buspar for anxiety and that seems to help as well. Really, though, the gold standard treatment for BPD is dialectical behavior therapy, and it may take more than one "round" for it to really be helpful. Ours did a six-week intensive outpatient therapy session for BPD back in 2021 and she did find the exercises helpful, but we're all feeling that it's time for her to go back and do it again as she starts this new, adult phase of her life.
The most positive thing I've read/been told is that most BPD patients, with therapy, improve as they age and mature. I'm hopeful that will be the case.
I love my daughter dearly, and when she is feeling well, she's a sweet, funny, charming young woman. I can't quite express what it feels like to get a diagnosis in your child's early adulthood that forces you to entirely change what you imagine for your kid's life in terms of her basic safety and happiness. My best advice to your friend is to find a therapist for herself who has experience with BPD, because she will need someone to talk to who "gets it" and isn't emotionally involved.
ETA: she has also spoken with her psychiatrist about the possibility of an autism diagnosis as well, but I don't know where they are on that. She had to start over with a new psych after she was hospitalized - her old one "dumped" her after that - so we're back to square one on some things.
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lesley
Drama Llama
My best friend Turriff, desperately missed.
Posts: 7,294
Location: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland
Jul 6, 2014 21:50:44 GMT
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Post by lesley on May 27, 2023 22:01:03 GMT
Back in the bad old days when my DD was very unwell, a psychiatrist who had spoken to her for 15 minutes, diagnosed her with BPD. (As an aside, I believe it shouldn’t be diagnosed in someone under the age of 18, because many of the signs are very similar to classic teenage behaviours.) That diagnosis was completely wrong, but omg, it gave DD some very bad treatment over the years from medical staff. Example - she had a ruptured ovarian cyst, and before surgery confirmed it, the consultant thought she was exaggerating/fabricating the pain for attention - because of the BPD diagnosis. She wanted to discharge her without any treatment. 🤬
Anger is a big component of BPD, and DD almost never showed any anger that wasn’t directed at herself. I have read many accounts over the years of women who were diagnosed with BPD, when in fact they had autism or ADHD. DD's crap psychiatrist later admitted he was unfamiliar with autism in teenage girls. (DD is autistic.) Your comments about the girl's behaviour, and her issues with anxiety, self harming, eating disorder, etc could absolutely be my DD at that age.
My niece was also diagnosed with BPD when she was in her 20s, and has only recently, at the age of 50, found out she has ADHD.
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Post by busy on May 27, 2023 23:58:17 GMT
So this is my daughter's primary diagnosis now. They're moving away from bipolar and more strongly toward BPD. This is the the daughter who recently attempted suicide and spent five days in the hospital, but on the other hand managed to graduate from college in all of that. There's more, so much more that I haven't shared here and don't intend to. Suffice to say that our lives are constant emotional chaos because we never know when the next crisis will occur or how bad it will be. I'll be honest: when we first got this tentative diagnosis and I read more about it, and got involved with a couple of online support groups, I cried for days. This is not a struggle anyone wants for their child. BPD patients have high rates of suicide, substance abuse, and self harm. They often have trouble making and maintaining lasting relationships and many have difficulty maintaining employment. I found the books that were supposed to be helpful were actually very discouraging and made these kids out to be monsters, which was not something I wanted to read, but your friend may feel differently. There's also a strong stigma attached to the disorder, as it was believed for years that it was caused by neglectful/abusive parenting. The psychiatric community now leans towards this being a genetic disorder that is often exacerbated by certain traumatic events or types of parenting that would be considered "good" parenting for any other child, like setting boundaries and loss of privileges for poor behavior. BPD kids and young people need to be parented in a very different way. My daughter is currently on an anti-psychotic which seems to help with the negative behaviors and the lies her brain tells her (BPD patients often believe that everyone hates them, that their family and best friends don't want to see them, and other stuff). She also takes buspar for anxiety and that seems to help as well. Really, though, the gold standard treatment for BPD is dialectical behavior therapy, and it may take more than one "round" for it to really be helpful. Ours did a six-week intensive outpatient therapy session for BPD back in 2021 and she did find the exercises helpful, but we're all feeling that it's time for her to go back and do it again as she starts this new, adult phase of her life. The most positive thing I've read/been told is that most BPD patients, with therapy, improve as they age and mature. I'm hopeful that will be the case. I love my daughter dearly, and when she is feeling well, she's a sweet, funny, charming young woman. I can't quite express what it feels like to get a diagnosis in your child's early adulthood that forces you to entirely change what you imagine for your kid's life in terms of her basic safety and happiness. My best advice to your friend is to find a therapist for herself who has experience with BPD, because she will need someone to talk to who "gets it" and isn't emotionally involved. ETA: she has also spoken with her psychiatrist about the possibility of an autism diagnosis as well, but I don't know where they are on that. She had to start over with a new psych after she was hospitalized - her old one "dumped" her after that - so we're back to square one on some things. ❤️❤️❤️ So much love. Thinking of your whole family. Thank you for sharing, I really appreciate it. I’m very worried about how they’re going to handle this. I love the whole family and they love their kids but they also worry too much about the opinions of others and im afraid it could lead to some really negative unintended consequences. Even if it turns out that BPD isn’t the correct diagnosis for her, there IS something serious going on.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 1:21:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2023 0:00:18 GMT
A long time ago, a doctor (not a psychiatrist) decided I had BPD and suggested I go on lithium. He even suggested to my mom that she support giving my ex full custody of my kids. (she used to work for him) The truth was I had depression and not too long ago, diagnosed with ADHD. Counseling helped with the depression and recognizing what triggered the BPD-like symptoms. I was told that ADHD can present as BPD. Today, I have a healthy marriage and a few close friends. I'm very anti-social at times so I don't have a large social circle.
I strongly suggest a second opinion before doing any medical treatment and multiple sessions.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on May 28, 2023 1:00:59 GMT
I recommend that she get into therapy with a provider who has experience with personality disorders. That therapist will get to know here and determine if BPD is an accurate diagnosis, but also work on the personality characteristics and symptoms that are causing impairment. DBT is well-known for being a treatment for BPD but it can also be used for other disorders. So getting into a DBT group or provider who uses DBT techniques could be helpful.
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mamapeaah
Full Member
Posts: 326
Sept 30, 2021 4:39:02 GMT
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Post by mamapeaah on May 28, 2023 2:41:21 GMT
I know 2 people who have it and they have such a hard time with it. They realize their outburst are seriously affecting their friendships and they really agonize over it. It's really sad because they just can't control it :-( One of them is disabled and the other is low income, so on top of the general stress, they also can't afford to seek better treatment.
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Post by berty on May 28, 2023 3:02:25 GMT
I’m not a trained therapist, but I know someone who works with BPD clients. I highly recommend DBT, or dialectical behavior therapy. It’s based on the work of Marsha Linehan. There are quite a few books and websites about it. In my opinion, it’s a program that helps patients understand why they feel the way they do and teaches practical skills for how to deal with everything. It can really be helpful.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 1:21:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2023 4:49:36 GMT
A good friend's child who is about to graduate from high school was just diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. It took some time to get to this diagnosis - she'd been on anxiety meds but they weren't helping. The daughter had seen a few therapists over the years, but didn't really connect with anyone, so it's not been very consistent. Her GP is who put her on the anxiety meds. When nothing was improving, my friend asked for advice about and I suggested seeing a psychiatrist, and that's where this diagnosis came from. (I also suggested getting a second opinion after receiving the diagnosis.) They're feeling a bit overwhelmed and both parents come from families that are more "stiff upper lip" kinds - they're open to treatment for their daughter, of course, but talking about it and admitting it's needed is hard for them. This is all very new to them and at their core, I think they're having a hard time thinking this isn't their fault somehow. Anyway, she's asked me for some help because I've dealt with varying degrees of depression for a long time, and DS has anxiety. So I guess she thinks I know something, but I know nothing about BPD (and have said that). I'd still like to help her with information, though. Does anyone with experience with it have resources they could suggest that I could pass along? Anything at all that might be useful? She's afraid to Google - and I think it's best she doesn't right now - but would love to point her in the direction of some quality information/groups/etc. two bits of information you provided stand out to me. How long has she seen the psychiatrist? Personality disorders are difficult to diagnose given there could be underyling trauma that has affected personality development. Also understanding one's personality is difficult to do in a few sessions. As a result I have seen many people cycle through a diagnosis of BPD, bipolar and schizophrenia. Stiff upper lift parents + a change in her behaviour. I think there is lots to explore here outside of any clinical diagnosis.
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Post by auntkelly on May 28, 2023 19:25:46 GMT
I recommend that she get into therapy with a provider who has experience with personality disorders. That therapist will get to know here and determine if BPD is an accurate diagnosis, but also work on the personality characteristics and symptoms that are causing impairment. DBT is well-known for being a treatment for BPD but it can also be used for other disorders. So getting into a DBT group or provider who uses DBT techniques could be helpful. I have a lifelong friend who had to be hospitalized briefly a few years’ ago and was diagnosed w/ BPD. She was referred to a provider for treatment, and the provider eventually determined that my friend was suffering from depression and PTSD rather than BPD. She still sees the therapist and is doing great.
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penny8909
Shy Member
Posts: 39
May 18, 2018 5:21:38 GMT
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Post by penny8909 on May 28, 2023 20:27:36 GMT
My son was diagnosed with schizophrenia at age 12. He was diagnosed by a child psychiatrist affiliated with a major teaching children's hopsital in our area. They wanted to put him on antipsychotics and hospitalize initially. I declined and the doc acted like I was guilty of child abuse.
Turns out the "voices" he was hearing were nonexistent. He made them up because he was terrified of going to middle school. He knew he would be bullied because he was already being bullied.
After 2 months of calling around, We ended up getting an appointment with a doctor who works at the National Institutes of Mental Health in Bethesda MD. The doctor did consulting on the side. It cost us $2000 and was the best $$ we ever spent. She got through the situation in one session. "Your kid is bright and scared but he isn't crazy. Find a small private safe school for him and I can help if you need advice on schools."
That was 20 years ago and I feel we dodged a HUGE bullet. He's fine.
Get a 2nd opinion from a true expert if at all possible.
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Post by Merge on May 28, 2023 20:38:49 GMT
So this is my daughter's primary diagnosis now. They're moving away from bipolar and more strongly toward BPD. This is the the daughter who recently attempted suicide and spent five days in the hospital, but on the other hand managed to graduate from college in all of that. There's more, so much more that I haven't shared here and don't intend to. Suffice to say that our lives are constant emotional chaos because we never know when the next crisis will occur or how bad it will be. I'll be honest: when we first got this tentative diagnosis and I read more about it, and got involved with a couple of online support groups, I cried for days. This is not a struggle anyone wants for their child. BPD patients have high rates of suicide, substance abuse, and self harm. They often have trouble making and maintaining lasting relationships and many have difficulty maintaining employment. I found the books that were supposed to be helpful were actually very discouraging and made these kids out to be monsters, which was not something I wanted to read, but your friend may feel differently. There's also a strong stigma attached to the disorder, as it was believed for years that it was caused by neglectful/abusive parenting. The psychiatric community now leans towards this being a genetic disorder that is often exacerbated by certain traumatic events or types of parenting that would be considered "good" parenting for any other child, like setting boundaries and loss of privileges for poor behavior. BPD kids and young people need to be parented in a very different way. My daughter is currently on an anti-psychotic which seems to help with the negative behaviors and the lies her brain tells her (BPD patients often believe that everyone hates them, that their family and best friends don't want to see them, and other stuff). She also takes buspar for anxiety and that seems to help as well. Really, though, the gold standard treatment for BPD is dialectical behavior therapy, and it may take more than one "round" for it to really be helpful. Ours did a six-week intensive outpatient therapy session for BPD back in 2021 and she did find the exercises helpful, but we're all feeling that it's time for her to go back and do it again as she starts this new, adult phase of her life. The most positive thing I've read/been told is that most BPD patients, with therapy, improve as they age and mature. I'm hopeful that will be the case. I love my daughter dearly, and when she is feeling well, she's a sweet, funny, charming young woman. I can't quite express what it feels like to get a diagnosis in your child's early adulthood that forces you to entirely change what you imagine for your kid's life in terms of her basic safety and happiness. My best advice to your friend is to find a therapist for herself who has experience with BPD, because she will need someone to talk to who "gets it" and isn't emotionally involved. ETA: she has also spoken with her psychiatrist about the possibility of an autism diagnosis as well, but I don't know where they are on that. She had to start over with a new psych after she was hospitalized - her old one "dumped" her after that - so we're back to square one on some things. ❤️❤️❤️ So much love. Thinking of your whole family. Thank you for sharing, I really appreciate it. I’m very worried about how they’re going to handle this. I love the whole family and they love their kids but they also worry too much about the opinions of others and im afraid it could lead to some really negative unintended consequences. Even if it turns out that BPD isn’t the correct diagnosis for her, there IS something serious going on. One thing DD's current doctor said that stood out to me is that he's less concerned about labels and diagnoses than the behaviors that are keeping the patient from living life the way they want to. BPD-type behaviors, whether that is the right label or not, are very challenging for the patient and the family. My best wishes to your friend and her daughter.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,538
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on May 29, 2023 13:47:11 GMT
One thing DD's current doctor said that stood out to me is that he's less concerned about labels and diagnoses than the behaviors that are keeping the patient from living life the way they want to. I think this is so important and agree 1000%. (The following is a VAST oversimplification.) There are problems to be dealt with primarily with medication, and those to be dealt with primarily with therapies. If a person has behaviors that they are wishing to modify, then they can address them. For day-to-day purposes for most of us, it doesn't really matter what label they "belong to," except in the possible sense of giving you ideas of how to resolve other things that may be causing difficulties.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on May 29, 2023 14:06:37 GMT
❤️❤️❤️ So much love. Thinking of your whole family. Thank you for sharing, I really appreciate it. I’m very worried about how they’re going to handle this. I love the whole family and they love their kids but they also worry too much about the opinions of others and im afraid it could lead to some really negative unintended consequences. Even if it turns out that BPD isn’t the correct diagnosis for her, there IS something serious going on. One thing DD's current doctor said that stood out to me is that he's less concerned about labels and diagnoses than the behaviors that are keeping the patient from living life the way they want to. BPD-type behaviors, whether that is the right label or not, are very challenging for the patient and the family. My best wishes to your friend and her daughter. I agree. Sometimes people get too focused on a label, when in terms of mental health treatment that isn’t as concrete as it is with other health issues. The symptoms are really what is treated, not the specific diagnosis. Also, it isn’t usually BPD or another diagnosis. Depression, anxiety, PTSD can and do often go along with personality disorders.
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Post by danalz on May 30, 2023 14:49:35 GMT
I've had several clients with BPD and they can be challenging to work with. I've found that having strict boundaries really helps. I had one client who was very successful using DBT therapy; however, the person has to really want to make changes in their life and be dedicated to it as a lifelong set of skills that they will need to utilize in their day to day life.
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Post by Sorrel on May 30, 2023 15:08:22 GMT
My husband’s ex-wife is diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. Dealing with her over the last 12 years has been…. difficult. I try to have empathy as she is clearly a miserable person, but she has been so revolting in her behavior that it is a challenge. I also have a close friend whose young adult daughter is diagnosed with BPD. My experience has been that while they certainly direct lots of things at themselves, they lash out constantly at those around them… interesting that your friend’s daughter is not like that. I found the website BPD Family helpful in learning more, and there are support forums for all stages/forms of BPD relationship situations.
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