|
Post by aj2hall on Aug 20, 2023 17:56:49 GMT
It seems almost inevitable that Trump will be the Republican nominee. A few political threads have discussions about a possible re-match in 2024. I thought it might be helpful to consolidate them in one place. I thought this was an interesting analysis of 2024. There's a lot more at the link simonwdc.substack.com/p/democrats-are-having-a-very-goodSimon Rosenberg, the long-time Democratic strategist who was proven right as the most prominent public skeptic of the “red wave” theory in 2022, argues that Trump, in particular, is unlikely to match his 47% of the vote from 2020 if the GOP nominates him again. “We are starting at a place where it is far more likely in my mind that he gets to 45% than he gets to 49%,” Rosenberg said. “And if he gets to 45%, we have the opportunity to get up to 55%. The key for Democrats is we have to imagine growing and expanding our coalition for it to happen.”
Another change since 2020 is the broad public backlash, especially in Democratic-leaning and swing states, against the 2022 Supreme Court decision ending the constitutional right to abortion, which Trump has directly claimed credit for engineering through his nominations to the court. Finally, compared to 2020, the electorate in 2024 will likely include significantly more young people in Generation Z, a group that is preponderantly supporting Democrats, and fewer Whites without a college degree, now the GOP’s best group.
All of these factors, Rosenberg said, create “an opportunity” for Democrats to amass a bigger majority next year than most consider possible. But to get there, he argues, the party will need to think bigger, particularly in its efforts to mobilize younger voters aging into the electorate. “It’s a man on the moon kind of mindset,” Rosenberg said. “We have to want to go there to get there. We have to build a strategy to take away political real estate from the Republicans because they are giving us the opportunity to take it away from them.”
Many Republican strategists privately agree that the combined effect of the January 6 insurrection and the court’s abortion decision will make it difficult for Trump to expand his support from 2020 if the GOP nominates him again.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Aug 20, 2023 17:58:08 GMT
A third party candidate could really throw a wrench into the works. But, I don't think Kennedy as a 3rd party candidate will have much of an impact. Kennedy's favorability rating has dropped among Democrats and is much higher for Republicans. Kennedy as a 3rd party candidate is more likely to pull votes from the Republican nominee. A serious 3rd party candidate might be problematic for Biden/ Harris, but it's not likely Kennedy will change anything. fivethirtyeight.com/features/rfk-jr-democrat-republican-primary-favorability/Running against an incumbent president, Kennedy already faced extremely long odds in the Democratic primary. In terms of support, he has actually held steady around 15 percent all year long, according to FiveThirtyEight’s national polling average. But in order to improve upon that, he needs Democratic voters to like him, and that doesn’t seem to be the case — plus, things are moving in the wrong direction for him. Based on these numbers, if Kennedy is serious about wanting to become president, he should consider switching parties.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Aug 20, 2023 18:02:35 GMT
The impact of young voters In 2022, young voters turned out big time in the swing states. If the election comes down to Trump vs Biden again, I think young voters will turn out again. In 2024, there will be more young voters than in 2016 and I think they will help the Democrats win the swing states in 2024. I think Biden has a good chance of keeping the blue wall blue and winning PA, Michigan and Wisconsin again. Young voters are more motivated by issues like climate change and abortion. Democrats just need to focus on the issues. The sh&t storm that is coming for Republicans with Trump's trials should provide a clear contrast and reality for independent and moderate voters. www.npr.org/2022/11/15/1136563709/young-voters-helped-democrats-win-the-senate-and-other-midterm-elections
circle.tufts.edu/2022-election-centerTop Turnout States: Michigan had the highest youth turnout in the country (37%), with Minnesota, Maine, Oregon, and Colorado also above 30%.
Four States Surpassed 2018: Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, and Arkansas were the only states to have a higher youth turnout in 2022 than in 2018. In those first three states, Democrats won competitive statewide races for governor and/or U.S. Senate.
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Aug 20, 2023 18:07:14 GMT
The trouble for Biden is, lots of younger and Democratic voters have also been sucked in by the stumbling videos. I can’t tell you how many people (who aren’t as politically obsessed as we are) have told me he’s losing it. *sigh*
Watch the REAL news, people! Not just clips on tik-tok.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Aug 20, 2023 18:10:55 GMT
Republican narrative of Biden as the worst president are pushing Republican voters to Trump and might be an opportunity for Democrats. www.nytimes.com/2023/08/20/us/politics/biden-trump-republican-primary.html How G.O.P. Views of Biden Are Helping Trump in the Republican Primary In interviews and polling, many Republican voters believe President Biden is so weak that picking the most electable candidate to beat him no longer matters.
For months, Republican voters have consumed such a steady diet of clips of Mr. Biden stumbling, over words and sandbags, that they now see the 80-year-old Democratic incumbent as so frail that he would be beatable by practically any Republican — even a four-times-indicted former president who lost the last election.
Some Republicans worry that their voters have been lulled into a false sense of complacency about the challenge of beating a Democratic incumbent president. The last one to lose was Jimmy Carter more than four decades ago.Another analysis from Simon Rosenberg about how the Republican talking points on the worst presidency in history (Biden's )are collapsing. Some of this might be wishful thinking, this guy is saying what I want to hear, but he has some really valid points. There's a lot more, these are just the highlights. simonwdc.substack.com/p/the-right-wing-narrative-about-bidenAs we discussed last week (here, here), we are witnessing what may be a historic meltdown on the right side of the American political spectrum. Let’s review:
Republican leaders are choosing to once again excuse and embrace Trump’s epic malevolence and ongoing betrayal of the country McCarthy has lost control of the House, and may never get it back the backlash to DeSantis’ extremist agenda in Florida is growing, as it should a war has broken out between Fox News and Musk/Twitter/Tucker Carlson, just weeks after Fox was essentially found guilty of lying and helping stoke a domestic insurrection in the United States the leader of CPAC, one of the right’s most influential organizations, has been accused of sexual assault and financial improprieties by his own staff one of the right’s most important allies in the UK, Boris Johnson, just resigned from Parliament in disgrace Rs are losing in the early 2023 elections, as they did in the battlegrounds in 2022 The corruption of the Roberts Court is now undeniable
But of the all GOP’s challenges, and there are so, so many, the most consequential may be the clear across-the-board success of the Biden Presidency. It is making the fictional “worst President in history” narrative the right-wing noise machine has invested so much in impossible to maintain. Let’s revisit some of their attacks/memes given recent events:
Republicans are in serious trouble right now. MAGA is an electoral dead-end; the House is ungovernable under their leadership; their standing by Trump the betrayer is going to cause them serious brand damage; the corruption in their ranks has become a serious problem; the venality of their noise machine has been exposed for all to see, and its leaders are turning on each other; their association with Putin, a genocidal maniac, is no longer tenable; and the fictions they’ve created about Biden are collapsing due to his strong leadership and smart, successful Presidency.
I started Hopium Chronicles in part because I wanted to more aggressively challenge the tornado of right-wing bullshit in our daily discourse that I think is doing so much harm to the country. It is in that vein that I think we need to recognize that MAGA is in a form of narrative collapse right now. The stories they’ve been telling us and themselves are being increasingly exposed as rancid, red wavy fictions. What they are saying is literally less true today than it was a few weeks ago, and that is going to make it harder and harder for them to distract the American people from how ugly their project has become.
All of this gives us a huge opportunity to go on offense now, be loud and proud about what we’ve done and who we are, far more aggressively challenge them in the daily info wars, and strive together next year to get to 55 and turn the election into a clear repudiation of their historic awfulness.
We are at an important moment. We need to seize it, together.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Aug 20, 2023 18:20:00 GMT
Sorry, one more opinion by Simon Rosenberg. He correctly called the 2022 election, I'm hoping he's right about 2024. simonwdc.substack.com/p/poll-roundup-some-thoughts-on-3rd2024 - Biden Leads In Recent Polling, Some Early Thoughts on 3rd Party/Rogue Party Efforts We have two events next week - RSVP today!
SIMON ROSENBERG AUG 11, 2023
Happy Friday all! A few things for you today:
Presidential Poll Roundup - Part of the reason Tom Bonier and I got the election right last year was that we dismissed a lot of the junk polling out there and kept focused on higher quality, independent polls. Those polls showed a close, competitive election, not a wave. Applying that technique to our current moment, here is where the Presidential race stands today among polls I consider to be more reliable:
Monmouth 47-40 Quinnipiac 49-44 Yahoo/You Gov 47-43 NBC News 49-45 Economist/You Gov 44-40 Morning Consult 43-42 NYT/Siena 43-43 This averages out to a 3-4 point lead for Biden. An AARP poll done in the House battlegrounds - not a national sample - also had Biden up 4, 47-43. So give Biden a slight advantage now.
I’m happy with this polling. Many voters have not checked in on the 2024 race yet, which is particularly true on our side as we have no primary campaign right now to engage people. So if anything Biden’s support may be a bit soft right now, meaning he’s got a bit more upside in the coming months. If we are to get to 55 in 2024 this is where I would expect the race to be right now. To get there Biden needs to keep improving his standing on the economy and his job approval overall (a doable thing), and we need to further degrade Trump and the GOP brand (also a doable thing).
It is also core to my understanding of the moment that given our really strong performance in the battleground states in both 2022 and early 2023, the battleground states are a little harder now for the Rs than they were in 2020, meaning it will be harder for Trump to squeak by with a 2-3 point Dem popular vote lead as he did in 2016. The battleground is tougher for them this time; we have many strong Dem govs in these states now; and our campaigns and grassroots are stronger, more mature, and more sophisticated than in 2020. It is also true that millions of young voters have turned 18 since 2020, making many of these states a bit more Dem than 4 years ago.
Putting all this together I am good with where we are now and will continue to argue that our path to victory is much clearer than theirs. Joe Biden has been a good President and will have a strong case to make. We keep winning critical elections, they keep struggling. They will be running Trump, a serial criminal, sex offender and someone who has repeatedly betrayed his country. As I often say 15 months out I would much much rather be us than them.
|
|
|
Post by Scrapper100 on Aug 20, 2023 20:12:24 GMT
The whole attacking his health reminds me of what they did to Hillary in 16. They attacked her health among other things.
|
|
|
Post by lisae on Aug 20, 2023 20:42:04 GMT
The trouble for Biden is, lots of younger and Democratic voters have also been sucked in by the stumbling videos. I can’t tell you how many people (who aren’t as politically obsessed as we are) have told me he’s losing it. *sigh* Watch the REAL news, people! Not just clips on tik-tok. I don't believe he is losing it but I do believe his aging is far more visible than we would like to admit. I wanted to deny it for a long time but I just can't anymore and I do watch the real news. Right now I can see no path in which I would not vote for Biden if he is on the ticket. However, another year in a high stress job can really take an even more visible toll on a nearly 81 year old man. While there is a high likelihood of a Biden/Trump rematch, it would not surprise me a bit if either party had to replace their likely nominee by this time next year.
|
|
scrappinmama
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,672
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
|
Post by scrappinmama on Aug 20, 2023 20:53:27 GMT
Of course Biden is old and slowing down. He has the most demanding job in the country and he's 80 years old. But an 80 year old Biden is 100% better than a deranged Trump. I will vote for Biden. And I would hope that young voters are reminded what happened when people stayed home and skipped voting rather than vote for Hillary. Sometimes you pick the best candidate, even when it isn't your ideal candidate. Biden is doing a good job, despite being 80 years old! And how he has that kind of energy is beyond me.
|
|
|
Post by dewryce on Aug 20, 2023 21:17:48 GMT
Of course Biden is old and slowing down. He has the most demanding job in the country and he's 80 years old. But an 80 year old Biden is 100% better than a deranged Trump. I will vote for Biden. And I would hope that young voters are reminded what happened when people stayed home and skipped voting rather than vote for Hillary. Sometimes you pick the best candidate, even when it isn't your ideal candidate. Biden is doing a good job, despite being 80 years old! And how he has that kind of energy is beyond me. Exactly. I don’t understand how anyone, but especially young voters and Democrats, could use this as a reason to not vote for him. Even if he dies first day in office Harris will still be 100% better than Trump. If his age is a concern, I get it. Vote for someone else in the Primary. But we know what happened in 2016 and 2020 and everywhere in between and following. There is no excuse for not voting for him when he’s the Democrat nominee.
|
|
|
Post by jackietex on Aug 21, 2023 1:19:58 GMT
Biden with a heartbeat is better than Trump any day.
|
|
Gennifer
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,444
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
|
Post by Gennifer on Aug 21, 2023 2:32:19 GMT
Zombie Biden would still be better than Trump. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
|
|
|
Post by BSnyder on Aug 21, 2023 5:01:03 GMT
Why, even when not considering the 4 indictments and 91 charges against him, isn’t the age of a 77 year old Trump an issue for those on the other side that are so focused on Biden’s age? Biden does more in one day than Trump did in a month…and I’m being generous to Trump.
|
|
RosieKat
Drama Llama

PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,690
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
|
Post by RosieKat on Aug 21, 2023 13:17:06 GMT
Why, even when not considering the 4 indictments and 91 charges against him, isn’t the age of a 77 year old Trump an issue for those on the other side that are so focused on Biden’s age? For. Real. My dad, an Old White Guy (TM) has said that he wishes we'd find anyone other than an OWG that people would vote for, but we just don't seem to be able to do it as a party, nor has he found any new suggestions. (There are people he'd vote for that aren't OWGs, but not ones that seem to be able to get the vote, as we've discussed countless times here as well.) But when even the OWGs want some non-OWGs, things are really messed up even on paper.
|
|