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Post by cmpeter on Sept 26, 2023 0:01:32 GMT
I'm not seeing why that is an issue. Most companies that file for patents have attorneys that know the law and rules inside and out.
Providing poor customer service and being nasty on a message board, those would be major turn offs for me too though. I wish my TH mini-platform worked as well as my Misti since I bought that one first and could have saved myself some money.
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Post by cmpeter on Sept 26, 2023 2:44:52 GMT
I’m making my way thru the 17 page thread from 2015 (I think) and am getting a better understanding of what happened.
I’m happy to see that even after her threats, Don’s picture of his DIY version is still up :-)
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,241
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Sept 26, 2023 14:14:54 GMT
I couldn't see Don's picture! I wonder what I did wrong.
I started looking back, too. It's funny to see that there were Peas at the time who'd been thinking about one and didn't get one because of the kerfuffle, similar to my finding the thread while researching platforms.
Finally saw the Klingon!
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Post by jill8909 on Sept 26, 2023 21:59:01 GMT
She got the patent because it met the requirements of the patent law. If I produced something like that I'd file for a patent too, and enforce it.
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Post by jill8909 on Sept 26, 2023 22:58:05 GMT
Applied for and was granted a patent many believe was unwarranted. Used it extremely litigiously to quash any and all competition, including threatening hobbyists who made DIY platforms and dared to share how they did it online. Our own pea Don may have been one (I’m not fully clear about that point—before my time). I believe if it has a rectangular platform and any sort of hinge, it has been ruled to infringe her patent, even something seemingly very different like the SU Stamparatus. The fact that "many believe" the patent was unwarranted is based on speculation and no knowledge of the law or most of the facts. At least I think so. I apologize if I am incorrect. It just seems like folks dislike the way she behaved on social media and therefore jump to the idea that there was no basis for the patent. She got a patent. End of that story.
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,241
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Sept 27, 2023 0:25:25 GMT
IF the Stamparatus was found to violate her patent, and I don't think it has been, then I think the patent is too broad. The Stamparatus is much less like the MISTI than Tim Holtz and others I've seen. But if I understand the situation correctly, that final court case between SU and MSP has not happened. Stamparatus was pulled from the market without having been ruled infringing. I'm not sure what to make of that fact, but I still think it has some sort of significance.
And there are patents that are granted and overturned because they are found to be invalid/overly broad/incorrectly granted. It may not happen often, but it happens. The law is not an exact science; it's a liberal art.
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azcrafty
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,955
Jun 28, 2019 20:24:21 GMT
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Post by azcrafty on Sept 27, 2023 1:31:25 GMT
If I understood right, the hinges what its part of the patent. Thats why the weR makers and the Altenew stamping tools should be safe.
Not sure why SU pulled theirs of the market. Maybe they didn't want to spend money on manufacturing more before they know its safe to do or potentially redesign it without hinges.
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,241
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Sept 27, 2023 8:57:52 GMT
Does the Stamparatus have a hinge? Sort of, I guess.
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azcrafty
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,955
Jun 28, 2019 20:24:21 GMT
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Post by azcrafty on Sept 27, 2023 13:48:57 GMT
Does the Stamparatus have a hinge? Sort of, I guess. Definitely a hinged one. They improved on the design and you can do more with it , but bottom line it is a hinged one. If the TH is one than the Stamparatus one too.
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scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,449
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on Sept 27, 2023 15:16:58 GMT
I read her patent application. In it, MSP showed that a letterpress was a similar device. Stampers used a craft letterpress for a stamp platform long before MSP made her stamp platform. It could be where she got her idea.
The reason that I feel the patent shouldn’t have been granted is that her stamp platform seems to be basically an adapted letterpress. A letterpress is very, very old technology (late 1400’s). Anyone can legally adapt a letterpress, which is why she could create her adapted version and apply for a patent. I felt that the Tim Holtz version was closer to an actual letterpress than like MSP’s platform, but it also had features that were unique (such as the plate that could be removed and turned around for rubber or clear stamps). But even baseless lawsuits can cause such financial damage that the ones being sued choose not to continue. If the husband of MSP is a lawyer, she’s presumably not paying hefty legal fees, while those she sued probably had to pay huge costs to defend themselves. In the end, those costs could easily have turned what had been profitable sales into a loss.
I don’t think that the companies who made other stamp platforms backed down because they couldn’t win. I think they gave up because to keep defending themselves through the court system would cost them more in the long run than they would be able to make selling their stamp platforms.
However, I don’t think that MSP can do anything legally about Chinese knock offs. It was bound to happen eventually. I’m just surprised it took this long, and I’m also sure she isn’t happy about it.
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MDscrapaholic
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,633
Location: Down by the bay....
Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Sept 27, 2023 15:25:38 GMT
Since the husband of MSP is a lawyer, she’s presumably not paying hefty legal fees, while those she sued probably had to pay huge costs to defend themselves. In the end, those costs could easily have turned what had been profitable sales into a loss. I don’t think that the companies who made other stamp platforms backed down because they couldn’t win. I think they gave up because to keep defending themselves through the court system would cost them more in the long run than they would be able to make selling their stamp platforms. She definitely has an unfair advantage.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,064
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Sept 27, 2023 15:33:02 GMT
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 27, 2023 16:18:56 GMT
I wish they could/would ship to the US.
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Post by paperlovinggal on Sept 27, 2023 18:53:18 GMT
Hi, I think the original Hinged Stamp Positioner was developed by Mostly Animals for wood mounted stamps.
It was over 30 years ago. Of course, at that time, there were no clear stamps. I still have it. Haven't used it much over the years.
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Post by cbet on Sept 27, 2023 21:19:59 GMT
I ~~think~~ the settlement with Tonic/Tim Holtz was that they would not sell them in North America. If you look at european craft sites, they still have the Tim Holtz platform available (but won't ship to the US).
There was also a stamp company (See-Dee's, I think - something like that) that had instructions for using the DVD cases that their stamps shipped in as a stamp positioner wayyyyy before the Misti was ever a thing. And the Lifestyle Crafts letterpress had a very detailed blog post on how to use it as a hinged positioner, again wayyy before the Misti. Thats a big part of the reason so many people feel the patent should not have been granted.
Regardless of whether it should have been granted or not, it was. And she apparently has nearly unlimited resources to fight any company that tries releasing their own. That still doesn't mean that I have to buy hers.
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scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,449
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on Sept 28, 2023 0:25:29 GMT
I ~~think~~ the settlement with Tonic/Tim Holtz was that they would not sell them in North America. If you look at european craft sites, they still have the Tim Holtz platform available (but won't ship to the US). There was also a stamp company (See-Dee's, I think - something like that) that had instructions for using the DVD cases that their stamps shipped in as a stamp positioner wayyyyy before the Misti was ever a thing. And the Lifestyle Crafts letterpress had a very detailed blog post on how to use it as a hinged positioner, again wayyy before the Misti. Thats a big part of the reason so many people feel the patent should not have been granted. Regardless of whether it should have been granted or not, it was. And she apparently has nearly unlimited resources to fight any company that tries releasing their own. That still doesn't mean that I have to buy hers. I think her nearly unlimited resources probably have a lot to do with her husband reportedly being a patent lawyer. I assume he is doing the legal stuff for free, and/or perhaps they write off some or all of the legal costs on their taxes, but she certainly seems lawsuit happy. My dad was a lawyer. It really bothers me to see her suing all her competition out of the market, especially since the others are as different (or more) from hers as hers is different from a letterpress. Just my opinion.
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Post by jill8909 on Sept 28, 2023 1:04:29 GMT
you all make some good points. thanks
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,241
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Oct 2, 2023 11:08:19 GMT
My Ali Express knock-off arrived. I used it to stamp a couple sentiments yesterday and for that purpose, it seemed superior to my Stamparatus. Both stamped very cleanly on the first try. The feel of stamping with it is also very different. On the other hand, Saturday I made two identical cards with multiple stamps and I wouldn't have wanted to do that without the Stamparatus' four different plate surfaces for stamps. And the comparisons I read when I was shopping for a platform did say it was the best tool for that exact application. I don't think I'll regret spending the $27 including shipping (as long as I can find somewhere to store it -- badly outgrowing my space now!).
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,241
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Oct 2, 2023 12:35:02 GMT
Oops. Also meant to say that if you start reading all of her references to "my attorneys" or "my legal team" etc as "my husband" it's much funnier!
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Post by gmcwife1 on Oct 2, 2023 15:01:01 GMT
Oops. Also meant to say that if you start reading all of her references to "my attorneys" or "my legal team" etc as "my husband" it's much funnier! This made me smile
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