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Post by onelasttime on Dec 2, 2023 21:55:02 GMT
There you have it. trump just admitted he/they are waging a war against American Democracy. He’s speaking someplace and this popped up on twitter along with the video Acyn…. ”Trump: We’ve been waging an all out war on American democracy” So I listened to the video. And dang if he isn’t saying it. One thing he mumbles so much it’s not crystal clear if he is saying “on American Democracy “ or “in American Democracy “. Also let’s be honest trump rarely makes sense so who knows if he understood what said or even what it means. But let’s be clear about one thing. trump and his supporters feel only white straight men should have the power in this country. x.com/antitoxicpeople/status/1731064604695114175?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nw
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 2, 2023 22:06:06 GMT
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Post by lucyg on Dec 3, 2023 5:01:11 GMT
He is losing his mind worse every day. I think the pressure is getting to him.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Dec 3, 2023 15:30:46 GMT
He is losing his mind worse every day. I think the pressure is getting to him. I hope it is, and I hope he cracks before the primary.
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Post by paulao on Dec 3, 2023 17:54:31 GMT
Please let the Democrats publish and post this everywhere on every media platform.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Dec 4, 2023 0:55:25 GMT
Please let the Democrats publish and post this everywhere on every media platform. Yeah but all of the sheeple will just say that’s the mainstream media lying to everyone. 🙄
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 4, 2023 9:35:53 GMT
There you have it. trump just admitted he/they are waging a war against American Democracy. He’s speaking someplace and this popped up on twitter along with the video Acyn…. ”Trump: We’ve been waging an all out war on American democracy” So I listened to the video. And dang if he isn’t saying it. One thing he mumbles so much it’s not crystal clear if he is saying “on American Democracy “ or “in American Democracy “. Also let’s be honest trump rarely makes sense so who knows if he understood what said or even what it means. But let’s be clear about one thing. trump and his supporters feel only white straight men should have the power in this country. x.com/antitoxicpeople/status/1731064604695114175?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nwEven in that extremely clipped video, he very clearly says IN democracy. Also that video clips the context before that statement and immediately following. Context that does not support the claim being made about what he is conveying in that speech.
SNOPES: No, Trump Did Not Say 'We've Been Waging an All-Out War on American Democracy'
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 4, 2023 16:44:16 GMT
There you have it. trump just admitted he/they are waging a war against American Democracy. He’s speaking someplace and this popped up on twitter along with the video Acyn…. ”Trump: We’ve been waging an all out war on American democracy” So I listened to the video. And dang if he isn’t saying it. One thing he mumbles so much it’s not crystal clear if he is saying “on American Democracy “ or “in American Democracy “. Also let’s be honest trump rarely makes sense so who knows if he understood what said or even what it means. But let’s be clear about one thing. trump and his supporters feel only white straight men should have the power in this country. x.com/antitoxicpeople/status/1731064604695114175?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nwEven in that extremely clipped video, he very clearly says IN democracy. Also that video clips the context before that statement and immediately following. Context that does not support the claim being made about what he is conveying in that speech.
SNOPES: No, Trump Did Not Say 'We've Been Waging an All-Out War on American Democracy'What does “in” American Democracy mean? He claims they are waging an all out war in American Democracy. What kind of war can one wage “in” American Democracy? Come up with a viable explanation with what kind of war one can wage “in” American Democracy. Otherwise I’m sticking with the title as to what he meant, because I believe he meant to say “on” but it came out “in”. And it wouldn’t be the first time he got his words mixed up.
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Post by don on Dec 4, 2023 16:58:43 GMT
But let’s be clear about one thing. Let's be clear about a mid sentence sound bite? Off twitter?
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 4, 2023 17:36:34 GMT
But let’s be clear about one thing. Let's be clear about a mid sentence sound bite? Off twitter? “But let’s be clear about one thing. trump and his supporters feel only white straight men should have the power in this country.”That is my belief/opinion after watching the actions and listening to words of trump, his supporters and a fairly large chunk of today’s crop of Republican elected officials since trump came down the escalator at trump towers in 2015.
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 4, 2023 21:44:55 GMT
What does “in” American Democracy mean? He claims they are waging an all out war in American Democracy. What kind of war can one wage “in” American Democracy? Come up with a viable explanation with what kind of war one can wage “in” American Democracy. Otherwise I’m sticking with the title as to what he meant, because I believe he meant to say “on” but it came out “in”. And it wouldn’t be the first time he got his words mixed up. It becomes obvious that he's not saying what you claim when you hear the entire thought spoken vs. a mid sentence clip. Go ahead and do what makes you happy, but your video deliberately clips the context before that statement and immediately following. Context that does not support the claim you're making about what he is conveying in that speech. Something you would not allow to stand if it came from the other side. So you can listen to the entire thought and come to an INFORMED opinion vs. the fantasy Acyn Torabi is spoon feeding you.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 4, 2023 23:49:41 GMT
What does “in” American Democracy mean? He claims they are waging an all out war in American Democracy. What kind of war can one wage “in” American Democracy? Come up with a viable explanation with what kind of war one can wage “in” American Democracy. Otherwise I’m sticking with the title as to what he meant, because I believe he meant to say “on” but it came out “in”. And it wouldn’t be the first time he got his words mixed up. It becomes obvious that he's not saying what you claim when you hear the entire thought spoken vs. a mid sentence clip. Go ahead and do what makes you happy, but your video deliberately clips the context before that statement and immediately following. Context that does not support the claim you're making about what he is conveying in that speech. Something you would not allow to stand if it came from the other side. So you can listen to the entire thought and come to an INFORMED opinion vs. the fantasy Acyn Torabi is spoon feeding you. 1. I listened to trump’s speech to try and find the sentence in question. I try not to listen to him because I get angry. And boy did I get angry listening to him. Man I wanted to reach through my ipad and slap his face. God that man tells lies. Just lie after lie after lie. 2. I couldn’t handle listening to the entire speech so I didn’t hear the sentence in question. Next I looked for a written transcript. Couldn’t find one. Next I read why Snoopes doesn’t think dumpster don meant what he said. Now I understand why some on twitter got upset. “ Given the context of the remark (he was talking about Democrats), Trump presumably meant to say, "They've been waging an all-out war on democracy," but flubbed the sentence such that he actually said, per the audio recording, "We've been waging an all-out war in democracy."
“Presumably” or a “Freudian slip “? When one listen to all the things the Republicans claim the Democrats are doing and in between all the lies you find they describe their own actions as something the Democrats are doing. I was reminded of that while listening to trump’s speech. And talk about rewriting history. So the question becomes did he “presumably mean to say” its was the Democrats or was it a Freudian slip and he spoke the truth but got “on” & “in” mixed up? Well it is a fact that trump and more than a few Republicans are “attacking” this country’s democracy. I mean look at what the Republicans are trying to do when it comes to voting. Marc Elias’s law firm has something like 40 pending lawsuits trying to stop the Republicans from making it harder for some people to vote. He puts out a newsletter called Democracy Docket that lists the various lawsuits and what’s involved. You can find it on twitter. Seriously you should check it out. It’s a real eye opener to what the Republicans are trying to do. Back to the intent of what dumpster don meant, I’m going with a Freudian slip and confused “on” with “in”.
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 5, 2023 1:15:19 GMT
It becomes obvious that he's not saying what you claim when you hear the entire thought spoken vs. a mid sentence clip. Go ahead and do what makes you happy, but your video deliberately clips the context before that statement and immediately following. Context that does not support the claim you're making about what he is conveying in that speech. Something you would not allow to stand if it came from the other side. So you can listen to the entire thought and come to an INFORMED opinion vs. the fantasy Acyn Torabi is spoon feeding you. 1. I listened to trump’s speech to try and find the sentence in question. I try not to listen to him because I get angry. And boy did I get angry listening to him. Man I wanted to reach through my ipad and slap his face. God that man tells lies. Just lie after lie after lie. 2. I couldn’t handle listening to the entire speech so I didn’t hear the sentence in question. Next I looked for a written transcript. Couldn’t find one. Next I read why Snoopes doesn’t think dumpster don meant what he said. Now I understand why some on twitter got upset. “ Given the context of the remark (he was talking about Democrats), Trump presumably meant to say, "They've been waging an all-out war on democracy," but flubbed the sentence such that he actually said, per the audio recording, "We've been waging an all-out war in democracy."
“Presumably” or a “Freudian slip “? When one listen to all the things the Republicans claim the Democrats are doing and in between all the lies you find they describe their own actions as something the Democrats are doing. I was reminded of that while listening to trump’s speech. And talk about rewriting history. So the question becomes did he “presumably mean to say” its was the Democrats or was it a Freudian slip and he spoke the truth but got “on” & “in” mixed up? Well it is a fact that trump and more than a few Republicans are “attacking” this country’s democracy. I mean look at what the Republicans are trying to do when it comes to voting. Marc Elias’s law firm has something like 40 pending lawsuits trying to stop the Republicans from making it harder for some people to vote. He puts out a newsletter called Democracy Docket that lists the various lawsuits and what’s involved. You can find it on twitter. Seriously you should check it out. It’s a real eye opener to what the Republicans are trying to do. Back to the intent of what dumpster don meant, I’m going with a Freudian slip and confused “on” with “in”. TLDR: Onelasttime: There you have it. I just listened to a fraction of a sentence, with the beginning AND end cut off, and the person that posted it tells me it means that trump just admitted he/they are waging a war against American Democracy. Me: Snopes, the previous context, and his very next sentence debunks that claim. Onelasttime: Well, I've decided to believe the false claim. Me: Got it.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 5, 2023 2:35:19 GMT
1. I listened to trump’s speech to try and find the sentence in question. I try not to listen to him because I get angry. And boy did I get angry listening to him. Man I wanted to reach through my ipad and slap his face. God that man tells lies. Just lie after lie after lie. 2. I couldn’t handle listening to the entire speech so I didn’t hear the sentence in question. Next I looked for a written transcript. Couldn’t find one. Next I read why Snoopes doesn’t think dumpster don meant what he said. Now I understand why some on twitter got upset. “ Given the context of the remark (he was talking about Democrats), Trump presumably meant to say, "They've been waging an all-out war on democracy," but flubbed the sentence such that he actually said, per the audio recording, "We've been waging an all-out war in democracy."
“Presumably” or a “Freudian slip “? When one listen to all the things the Republicans claim the Democrats are doing and in between all the lies you find they describe their own actions as something the Democrats are doing. I was reminded of that while listening to trump’s speech. And talk about rewriting history. So the question becomes did he “presumably mean to say” its was the Democrats or was it a Freudian slip and he spoke the truth but got “on” & “in” mixed up? Well it is a fact that trump and more than a few Republicans are “attacking” this country’s democracy. I mean look at what the Republicans are trying to do when it comes to voting. Marc Elias’s law firm has something like 40 pending lawsuits trying to stop the Republicans from making it harder for some people to vote. He puts out a newsletter called Democracy Docket that lists the various lawsuits and what’s involved. You can find it on twitter. Seriously you should check it out. It’s a real eye opener to what the Republicans are trying to do. Back to the intent of what dumpster don meant, I’m going with a Freudian slip and confused “on” with “in”. TLDR: Onelasttime: There you have it. I just listened to a fraction of a sentence, with the beginning AND end cut off, and the person that posted it tells me it means that trump just admitted he/they are waging a war against American Democracy. Me: Snopes, the previous context, and his very next sentence debunks that claim. Onelasttime: Well, I've decided to believe the false claim. Me: Got it. How is it a false claim? He said it? Right? How do you specifically know he didn’t mean what he said? How does Snoopes know for sure what he meant? At some point you will grasp that “assumptions” are not facts. And that is what Snoopes did, they presumed which when you get right down to it is an assumption.
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 5, 2023 2:46:52 GMT
TLDR: Onelasttime: There you have it. I just listened to a fraction of a sentence, with the beginning AND end cut off, and the person that posted it tells me it means that trump just admitted he/they are waging a war against American Democracy. Me: Snopes, the previous context, and his very next sentence debunks that claim. Onelasttime: Well, I've decided to believe the false claim. Me: Got it. How is it a false claim? He said it? Right? How do you specifically know he didn’t mean what he said? How does Snoopes know for sure what he meant? At some point you will grasp that “assumptions” are not facts. And that is what Snoopes did, they presumed which when you get right down to it is an assumption. The fact is that the previous context, and his very next sentence debunks your claim of the meaning. That's exactly WHY it was purposely removed by your source. Your OPINION is based on assumptions and ignoring the rest of his words.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 5, 2023 20:00:07 GMT
How is it a false claim? He said it? Right? How do you specifically know he didn’t mean what he said? How does Snopes know for sure what he meant? At some point you will grasp that “assumptions” are not facts. And that is what Snopes did, they presumed which when you get right down to it is an assumption. The fact is that the previous context, and his very next sentence debunks your claim of the meaning. That's exactly WHY it was purposely removed by your source. Your OPINION is based on assumptions and ignoring the rest of his words. Assumption: “something that you accept as true without question or proof:” Presume: Making an informed guess Fact: Something that is known to have happen or exist, especially something for which proof exists. Proof: Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or a truth of a statement. Fact: trump said the sentence in question. The proof is a video of him saying it. What Snopes said about the sentence was trump “presumably meant to say”. Based on the definitions above Snopes made a guess. An informed guess but still a guess. Which means they don’t know for sure if trump meant to say what he did or that he meant to say something else. Now you are making the assumption that Snopes “informed guess” was correct. And the definition of assumption is accepting what Snopes is presuming without proof that he intended to say something else. Snopes did not provide any proof to establish a “fact or truth of statement”. Here is my opinion based on observation of trump, his supporters and a huge chunk of today’s Republicans. What trump said was a true statement. And if it should turn out that my opinion is correct and it becomes a fact then this country will cease to exist as we know it and the grand experiment started by the Framers will end in failure. The only way to prove Snopes assessment of trump’s sentence is for his campaign to make a statement that dumpster don misspoke and he meant to say whatever. Which as far as I know they haven’t. .
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 5, 2023 20:12:32 GMT
The fact is that the previous context, and his very next sentence debunks your claim of the meaning. That's exactly WHY it was purposely removed by your source. Your OPINION is based on assumptions and ignoring the rest of his words. Assumption: “something that you accept as true without question or proof:” Presume: Making an informed guess Fact: Something that is known to have happen or exist, especially something for which proof exists. Proof: Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or a truth of a statement. Fact: trump said the sentence in question. The proof is a video of him saying it. What Snopes said about the sentence was trump “presumably meant to say”. Based on the definitions above Snopes made a guess. An informed guess but still a guess. Which means they don’t know for sure if trump meant to say what he did or that he meant to say something else. Now you are making the assumption that Snopes “informed guess” was correct. And the definition of assumption is accepting what Snopes is presuming without proof that he intended to say something else. Snopes did not provide any proof to establish a “fact or truth of statement”. Here is my opinion based on observation of trump, his supporters and a huge chunk of today’s Republicans. What trump said was a true statement. And if it should turn out that my opinion is correct and it becomes a fact then this country will cease to exist as we know it and the grand experiment started by the Framers will end in failure. The only way to prove Snopes assessment of trump’s sentence is for his campaign to make a statement that dumpster don misspoke and he meant to say whatever. Which as far as I know they haven’t. . They made an educated guess based on the context/words before and after. The context/words that your video clip doesn't include. If they have to clip the context from the statement to make the claim you're sharing, it's not true. It's propaganda. If you have to ignore the words/context that surround what he said in order form your opinion, your opinion is not based in reality. It's based on wishful thinking only.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 6, 2023 19:33:29 GMT
No need to worry guys. He will only be a dictator on day one, and surely only to close the border and drill baby, drill”.
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 7, 2023 20:49:42 GMT
No need to worry guys. He will only be a dictator on day one, and surely only to close the border and drill baby, drill”. Trump mocking the extremist claim that he's a dictator, with actions that are nowhere near dictatorship, does not show him to be a dictator.
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Post by lucyg on Dec 8, 2023 21:43:22 GMT
No need to worry guys. He will only be a dictator on day one, and surely only to close the border and drill baby, drill”. Trump mocking the extremist claim that he's a dictator, with actions that are nowhere near dictatorship, does not show him to be a dictator. And you, making unending excuses for his horrific statements AND actions, does nothing to show him NOT to be a potential dictator.
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 9, 2023 0:15:22 GMT
Trump mocking the extremist claim that he's a dictator, with actions that are nowhere near dictatorship, does not show him to be a dictator. And you, making unending excuses for his horrific statements AND actions, does nothing to show him NOT to be a potential dictator. Pointing out absolute proven lies said about someone, anyone... is not making excuses for them making horrific statements or actions. If they didn't say it or do it, you can't make excuses for them saying/doing it. That's reality. I know you want so badly for those lies to be true, but they just aren't. Many of them have even been debunked by Left leaning news sources. I'm sorry you are so disappointed that the lies are not true and that anyone would dare say so.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 9, 2023 7:41:12 GMT
Trump has admitted he will be a dictator, just on day 1. All of the other actions that he’s said he will do if re-elected, going after the media, retaliation against his enemies etc are promises of an authoritarian dictatorship. Anyone who denies that or refuses to see it is delusional. He’s talked about suspending the constitution, vastly expanding executive powers, increasing the military’s role at home, invoking the Insurrection Act. What more evidence do you need? apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 9, 2023 21:27:18 GMT
Trump has admitted he will be a dictator, just on day 1. All of the other actions that he’s said he will do if re-elected, going after the media, retaliation against his enemies etc are promises of an authoritarian dictatorship. Anyone who denies that or refuses to see it is delusional. He’s talked about suspending the constitution, vastly expanding executive powers, increasing the military’s role at home, invoking the Insurrection Act. What more evidence do you need? apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72Securing the border and working on energy independence is part of national security, which is in the job description. I know you want so badly for him to be a dictator, but that's not dictatorship by any stretch of the imagination. Thats why it was nothing more than Trump mocking this absurd extremist claim. The title of this thread remains untrue. He did not admit any such thing.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 9, 2023 22:29:15 GMT
Trump has admitted he will be a dictator, just on day 1. All of the other actions that he’s said he will do if re-elected, going after the media, retaliation against his enemies etc are promises of an authoritarian dictatorship. Anyone who denies that or refuses to see it is delusional. He’s talked about suspending the constitution, vastly expanding executive powers, increasing the military’s role at home, invoking the Insurrection Act. What more evidence do you need? apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72Securing the border and working on energy independence is part of national security, which is in the job description. I know you want so badly for him to be a dictator, but that's not dictatorship by any stretch of the imagination. Thats why it was nothing more than Trump mocking this absurd extremist claim. The title of this thread remains untrue. He did not admit any such thing. You can believe what you want. But you can’t tell us what to believe. And your attitude above suggests that is exactly what you are trying to do. Here is what I think, if this country is stupid enough to elect dumpster don president and give him a majority in Congress this country will cease to be a democracy. And what is currently playing out in Texas will become a lot more common and not just for abortions but other issues that affect Americans as well. I’m basing this opinion by what trump and company have been saying the last couple of years. Do you know trump wants any migrants coming in this country to pass a religious test. If it’s not the right religion they won’t be allowed in. I guess he forgot that one of the main reasons the Pilgrims came to this country was religious freedom. Kind of what the country was founded on, the choice of religion or no religion at all. We know you don’t think this will happen and that is your choice, But here’s the thing, if I’m right then it will have happened because of people like yourself who refuse to see what’s in front of them and therefore allowing it to happen. I guess we will have and wait to see how this plays out.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 9, 2023 23:05:56 GMT
Democracy Docket…. ” Donald Trump’s Plot Against America”
By Marc Elias December 6, 2023 “Donald Trump is plotting to overthrow American democracy. It is not a secret, and he is not subtle. The only question is whether enough people will care enough to stop it.
Trump is not hiding his intentions for a second term. Echoing Hitler’s rise to power, he has called his political enemies “vermin” and promised his supporters that, if elected, he would be their “retribution.” Trump’s enablers have outlined a plan for him to replace tens of thousands of career civil servants with MAGA loyalists and to take personal control of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) to prosecute his political rivals. He is almost certain to use an old law — the Insurrection Act — to convert the military into his personal domestic police force. Since his power comes from a bottomless capacity to lie, he has contempt for the free press, which he calls the “enemy of the people.” He recently suggested that the government should censor or shut down media platforms he dislikes. His most brazen attacks on democracy manifested in the aftermath of 2020. Since his loss to President Joe Biden, Trump has advocated for discarding lawful ballots, tampering with election certification and throwing out entire states’ results. He supports voter intimidation and voter suppression, often with a racist dimension. Recently, he unveiled a new “guard the vote” strategy, urging his supporters to monitor the vote-counting process in blue cities like Atlanta, Detroit and Philadelphia. If Trump regains power, these abuses would just be the beginning. Though state laws generally govern elections, Trump would assuredly use the federal government to seize voting machines and ballots. Anyone who thinks that a re-elected President Trump would not insist on controlling ballot counting and certification has simply not been paying attention. Trump’s attack on the legal system would not be confined to spurious criminal prosecutions of others. He would also use it to personally benefit himself and his most violent supporters. He would almost certainly pardon all the Jan. 6 insurrectionists. Worse, he would abuse his office to block his own criminal prosecutions. Regardless of the law, he would immediately take steps to fire all the prosecutors in the two federal cases against him. Who would dare stop him? The DOJ and the military would become a weapon to end all four criminal cases in which he is a defendant, while initiating retaliatory criminal investigations against others If all of this sounds terrifying, it is. If this sounds unrealistic, then you have learned little from history of how democracies are replaced by despotic regimes. Hitler did not come to power in a coup, but rather from democratic elections. The same is true with many of the authoritarians today. Even if you doubt that this is correct, it is not a risk worth taking. Blaise Pascal, the 17th century mathematician, is responsible for the foundation of modern risk theory. In his famous “wager” he argues that even non believers should live a life as if God exists. If God does not exist, the downside of living a pious life is relatively small; but, if God does exist, the consequences of living a lavish life are infinitely bad. The lesson: measuring risk requires one to consider not only the likelihood that an event will occur but also the consequences if it does. You may believe that the likelihood of Trump destroying democracy is low. You may think he will lose the election, or that our system of checks and balances will hold him back.
But what if you are wrong? Pascal’s wager teaches that we must also consider the consequences of Trump abusing power and ending American democracy. Even if you consider the odds low, the consequences are what matter. We are not powerless to stop Trump from being elected, but we must act now and with purpose. There is no guarantee we will succeed. It is possible that our constitutional system simply cannot handle a threat like Trump. It is possible that the divisions in this country are too deep to rally against him. But we need to try. We need to begin by speaking honestly about the existential threat Trump poses to democracy. He is not a normal candidate. There are no both sides in this election. There can be no false equivalencies.
Trump will do anything to win in 2024 and the Republican Party will aid and abet him at every turn. To stay in the White House in 2020, Trump was prepared to denigrate voting and election officials, tamper with the vote counting, organize fake electors and file dozens of frivolous lawsuits. When that failed, he incited a violent insurrection and insisted that his congressional supporters continue to fight the certification.Four years later, he has learned from his failures and his supporters are better organized, financed and disciplined. Most importantly, he is more desperate. With four criminal cases hanging over him, the stakes include his personal freedom. We can expect that in 2024 he will insist his supporters be more aggressive, more ruthless and more violent. We need to accept that he will literally do anything necessary to win this election.We must be as aggressive in defending free and fair elections as Trump is in undermining them. We need to think imaginatively and creatively to combat misinformation, voter suppression, and election subversion. No gesture is too large or small, we must all pitch in. Most importantly, we must vote. The only candidate who can defeat Donald Trump is President Joe Biden, who will be the nominee of the Democratic Party. A vote for No Labels, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Cornel West or any other third-party candidate is effectively a vote for Trump. Not voting is as well. The task before us requires everything all at once with more resources and people than ever before. This will not be easy. In her 2020 acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention, Vice President Kamala Harris summed up the era in which we still find ourselves. “Years from now, this moment will have passed. And our children and our grandchildren will look in our eyes and ask us: Where were you when the stakes were so high? They will ask us, what was it like? And we will tell them. We will tell them, not just how we felt. We will tell them what we did.“ What we must do is nothing less than protect democracy from Donald Trump” x.com/marceelias/status/1733475337655198163?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nw
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 9, 2023 23:08:49 GMT
Securing the border and working on energy independence is part of national security, which is in the job description. I know you want so badly for him to be a dictator, but that's not dictatorship by any stretch of the imagination. Thats why it was nothing more than Trump mocking this absurd extremist claim. The title of this thread remains untrue. He did not admit any such thing. You can believe what you want. But you can’t tell us what to believe. And your attitude above suggests that is exactly what you are trying to do. Here is what I think, if this country is stupid enough to elect dumpster don president and give him a majority in Congress this country will cease to be a democracy. And what is currently playing out in Texas will become a lot more common and not just for abortions but other issues that affect Americans as well. I’m basing this opinion by what trump and company have been saying the last couple of years. Do you know trump wants any migrants coming in this country to pass a religious test. If it’s not the right religion they won’t be allowed in. I guess he forgot that one of the main reasons the Pilgrims came to this country was religious freedom. Kind of what the country was founded on, the choice of religion or no religion at all. We know you don’t think this will happen and that is your choice, But here’s the thing, if I’m right then it will have happened because of people like yourself who refuse to see what’s in front of them and therefore allowing it to happen. I guess we will have and wait to see how this plays out. I'm not telling you what to believe, I'm telling you that the facts don't support your belief. It is of course your choice not to consider facts and only rely on your feelings for what to believe. Although that is something you once told me not to do. GemGirl once said: "It's impossible to negotiate successfully unless both parties are dealing in factual reality." To which you enthusiastically agreed. Funny how you so often dismiss factual reality after making such an effort to insist on it from others.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 9, 2023 23:24:31 GMT
linkFrom the Washington Post Opinion… ” Opinion A Trump dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. We should stop pretending.”By Robert Kagan Editor at large “Let’s stop the wishful thinking and face the stark reality: There is a clear path to dictatorship in the United States, and it is getting shorter every day. In 13 weeks, Donald Trump will have locked up the Republican nomination. In the RealClearPolitics poll average (for the period from Nov. 9 to 20), Trump leads his nearest competitor by 47 points and leads the rest of the field combined by 27 points. The idea that he is unelectable in the general election is nonsense — he is tied or ahead of President Biden in all the latest polls — stripping other Republican challengers of their own stated reasons for existence. The fact that many Americans might prefer other candidates, much ballyhooed by such political sages as Karl Rove, will soon become irrelevant when millions of Republican voters turn out to choose the person whom no one allegedly wants. For many months now, we have been living in a world of self-delusion, rich with imagined possibilities. Maybe it will be Ron DeSantis, or maybe Nikki Haley. Maybe the myriad indictments of Trump will doom him with Republican suburbanites. Such hopeful speculation has allowed us to drift along passively, conducting business as usual, taking no dramatic action to change course, in the hope and expectation that something will happen. Like people on a riverboat, we have long known there is a waterfall ahead but assume we will somehow find our way to shore before we go over the edge. But now the actions required to get us to shore are looking harder and harder, if not downright impossible. The magical-thinking phase is ending. Barring some miracle, Trump will soon be the presumptive Republican nominee for president. When that happens, there will be a swift and dramatic shift in the political power dynamic, in his favor. Until now, Republicans and conservatives have enjoyed relative freedom to express anti-Trump sentiments, to speak openly and positively about alternative candidates, to vent criticisms of Trump’s behavior past and present. Donors who find Trump distasteful have been free to spread their money around to help his competitors. Establishment Republicans have made no secret of their hope that Trump will be convicted and thus removed from the equation without their having to take a stand against him. All this will end once Trump wins Super Tuesday. Votes are the currency of power in our system, and money follows, and by those measures, Trump is about to become far more powerful than he already is. The hour of casting about for alternatives is closing. The next phase is about people falling into line. In fact, it has already begun. As his nomination becomes inevitable, donors are starting to jump from other candidates to Trump. The recent decision by the Koch political network to endorse GOP hopeful Nikki Haley is scarcely sufficient to change this trajectory. And why not? If Trump is going to be the nominee, it makes sense to sign up early while he is still grateful for defectors. Even anti-Trump donors must ask whether their cause is best served by shunning the man who stands a reasonable chance of being the next president. Will corporate executives endanger the interests of their shareholders just because they or their spouses hate Trump? It’s not surprising that people with hard cash on the line are the first to flip. The rest of the Republican Party will quickly follow. Rove’s recent exhortation that primary voters choose anyone but Trump is the last such plea you are likely to hear from anyone with a future in the party. Even in a normal campaign, intraparty dissent begins to disappear once the primaries produce a clear winner. Most of the leading candidates have already pledged to support Trump if he is the nominee, even before he has won a single primary vote. Imagine their posture after he runs the table on Super Tuesday. Most of the candidates running against him will sprint toward him, competing for his favor. After Super Tuesday, there will be no surer and shorter path to the presidency for a Republican than to become the loyal running mate of a man who will be 82 in 2028. Republicans who have tried to navigate the Trump era by mixing appeals to non-Trump voters with repeated professions of loyalty to Trump will end that show. As perilous as it is for Republicans to say a negative word about Trump today, it will be impossible once he has sewn up the nomination. The party will be in full general-election mode, subordinating all to the presidential campaign. What Republican or conservative will be standing up to Trump then? Will the Wall Street Journal editorial page, which has been rather boldly opposing Trump, continue to do so once he is the nominee and it is a binary choice between Trump and Biden? There will be no more infighting, only outfighting; in short, a tsunami of Trump support from all directions. A winner is a winner. And a winner who stands a reasonable chance of wielding all the power there is to wield in the world is going to attract support no matter who they are. That is the nature of power, at any time in any society. But Trump will not only dominate his party. He will again become the central focus of everyone’s attention. Even today, the news media can scarcely resist following Trump’s every word and action. Once he secures the nomination, he will loom over the country like a colossus, his every word and gesture chronicled endlessly. Even today, the mainstream news media, including The Post and NBC News, is joining forces with Trump’s lawyers to seek televised coverage of his federal criminal trial in D.C. Trump intends to use the trial to boost his candidacy and discredit the American justice system as corrupt — and the media outlets, serving their own interests, will help him do it. Trump will thus enter the general-election campaign early next year with momentum, backed by growing political and financial resources, and an increasingly unified party. Can the same be said of Biden? Is Biden’s power likely to grow over the coming months? Will his party unify around him? Or will alarm and doubt among Democrats, already high, continue to increase? Even at this point, the president is struggling with double-digit defections among Black Americans and younger voters. Jill Stein and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. have already launched, respectively, third-party and independent campaigns, coming at Biden in the main from the populist left. The decision by Sen. Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.) not to run for reelection in West Virginia but instead to contemplate a third-party run for the presidency is potentially devastating. The Democratic coalition is likely to remain fractious as the Republicans unify and Trump consolidates his hold. Biden, as some have pointed out, does not enjoy the usual advantages of incumbency. Trump is effectively also an incumbent, after all. That means Biden is unable to make the usual incumbent’s claim that electing his opponent is a leap into the unknown. Few Republicans regard the Trump presidency as having been either abnormal or unsuccessful. In his first term, the respected “adults” around him not only blocked some of his most dangerous impulses but also kept them hidden from the public. To this day, some of these same officials rarely speak publicly against him. Why should Republican voters have a problem with Trump if those who served him don’t? Regardless of what Trump’s enemies think, this is going to be a battle of two tested and legitimate presidents. Trump, meanwhile, enjoys the usual advantage of non-incumbency, namely: the lack of any responsibility. Biden must carry the world’s problems like an albatross around his neck, like any incumbent, but most incumbents can at least claim that their opponent is too inexperienced to be entrusted with these crises. Biden cannot. On Trump’s watch, there was no full-scale invasion of Ukraine, no major attack on Israel, no runaway inflation, no disastrous retreat from Afghanistan. It is hard to make the case for Trump’s unfitness to anyone who does not already believe it. Trump enjoys some unusual advantages for a challenger, moreover. Even Ronald Reagan did not have Fox News and the speaker of the House in his pocket. To the degree there are structural advantages in the coming general election, in short, they are on Trump’s side. And that is before we even get to the problem that Biden can do nothing to solve: his age. Trump also enjoys another advantage. The national mood less than a year before the election is one of bipartisan disgust with the political system in general. Rarely in American history has democracy’s inherent messiness been more striking. In Weimar Germany, Hitler and other agitators benefited from the squabbling of the democratic parties, right and left, the endless fights over the budget, the logjams in the legislature, the fragile and fractious coalitions. German voters increasingly yearned for someone to cut through it all and get something — anything — done. It didn’t matter who was behind the political paralysis, either, whether the intransigence came from the right or the left. Today, Republicans might be responsible for Washington’s dysfunction, and they might pay a price for it in downballot races. But Trump benefits from dysfunction because he is the one who offers a simple answer: him. In this election, only one candidate is running on the platform of using unprecedented power to get things done, to hell with the rules. And a growing number of Americans claim to want that, in both parties. Trump is running against the system. Biden is the living embodiment of the system. Advantage: Trump. Which brings us to Trump’s expanding legal battlefronts. No doubt Trump would have preferred to run for office without spending most of his time fending off efforts to throw him in jail. Yet it is in the courtroom over the coming months that Trump is going to display his unusual power within the American political system. It is hard to fault those who have taken Trump to court. He certainly committed at least one of the crimes he is charged with; we don’t need a trial to tell us he tried to overturn the 2020 election. Nor can you blame those who have hoped thereby to obstruct his path back to the Oval Office. When a marauder is crashing through your house, you throw everything you can at him — pots, pans, candlesticks — in the hope of slowing him down and tripping him up. But that doesn’t mean it works. Trump will not be contained by the courts or the rule of law. On the contrary, he is going to use the trials to display his power. That’s why he wants them televised. Trump’s power comes from his following, not from the institutions of American government, and his devoted voters love him precisely because he crosses lines and ignores the old boundaries. They feel empowered by it, and that in turn empowers him. Even before the trials begin, he is toying with the judges, forcing them to try to muzzle him, defying their orders. He is a bit like King Kong testing the chains on his arms, sensing that he can break free whenever he chooses. And just wait until the votes start pouring in. Will the judges throw a presumptive Republican nominee in jail for contempt of court? Once it becomes clear that they will not, then the power balance within the courtroom, and in the country at large, will shift again to Trump. The likeliest outcome of the trials will be to demonstrate our judicial system’s inability to contain someone like Trump and, incidentally, to reveal its impotence as a check should he become president. Indicting Trump for trying to overthrow the government will prove akin to indicting Caesar for crossing the Rubicon, and just as effective. Like Caesar, Trump wields a clout that transcends the laws and institutions of government, based on the unswerving personal loyalty of his army of followers. I mention all this only to answer one simple question: Can Trump win the election? The answer, unless something radical and unforeseen happens, is: Of course he can. If that weren’t so, the Democratic Party would not be in a mounting panic about its prospects. If Trump does win the election, he will immediately become the most powerful person ever to hold that office. Not only will he wield the awesome powers of the American executive — powers that, as conservatives used to complain, have grown over the decades — but he will do so with the fewest constraints of any president, fewer even than in his own first term. What limits those powers? The most obvious answer is the institutions of justice — all of which Trump, by his very election, will have defied and revealed as impotent. A court system that could not control Trump as a private individual is not going to control him better when he is president of the United States and appointing his own attorney general and all the other top officials at the Justice Department. Think of the power of a man who gets himself elected president despite indictments, courtroom appearances and perhaps even conviction? Would he even obey a directive of the Supreme Court? Or would he instead ask how many armored divisions the chief justice has? Will a future Congress stop him? Presidents can accomplish a lot these days without congressional approval, as even Barack Obama showed. The one check Congress has on a rogue president, namely, impeachment and conviction, has already proved all but impossible — even when Trump was out of office and wielded modest institutional power over his party. Another traditional check on a president is the federal bureaucracy, that vast apparatus of career government officials who execute the laws and carry on the operations of government under every president. They are generally in the business of limiting any president’s options. As Harry S. Truman once put it, “Poor Ike. He’ll say ‘do this’ and ‘do that’ and nothing at all will happen.” That was a problem for Trump is his first term, partly because he had no government team of his own to fill the administration. This time, he will. Those who choose to serve in his second administration will not be taking office with the unstated intention of refusing to carry out his wishes. If the Heritage Foundation has its way, and there is no reason to believe it won’t, many of those career bureaucrats will be gone, replaced by people carefully “vetted” to ensure their loyalty to Trump. What about the desire for reelection, a factor that constrains most presidents? Trump might not want or need a third term, but were he to decide he wanted one, as he has sometimes indicated, would the 22nd Amendment block him any more effectively from being president for life than the Supreme Court, if he refused to be blocked? Why should anyone think that amendment would be more sacrosanct than any other part of the Constitution for a man like Trump, or perhaps more importantly, for his devoted supporters? A final constraint on presidents has been their own desire for a glittering legacy, with success traditionally measured in terms that roughly equate to the well-being of the country. But is that the way Trump thinks? Yes, Trump might seek a great legacy, but it is strictly his own glory that he craves. As with Napoleon, who spoke of the glory of France but whose narrow ambitions for himself and his family brought France to ruin, Trump’s ambitions, though he speaks of making America great again, clearly begin and end with himself. As for his followers, he doesn’t have to achieve anything to retain their support — his failure to build the wall in his first term in no way damaged his standing with millions of his loyalists. They have never asked anything of him other than that he triumph over the forces they hate in American society. And that, we can be sure, will be Trump’s primary mission as president.“ There is a lot more and I made this a gift article if you want to read the rest.
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 9, 2023 23:34:35 GMT
The opinion piece by Richard Kagan prompted this Letter to the Editor “Opinion Robert Kagan’s terrifying warning about a looming dictatorship”December 8, 2023 at 2:12 p.m. EST In his Dec. 3 Opinions Essay, “A Trump dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. We should stop pretending.,” Robert Kagan shone a bright light on the plausible path to a Trump dictatorship. I suspect we will hear little in response from the many senators who declined to convict former president Donald Trump in his second impeachment. They tracked the rationale of Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), who said during his first impeachment that he had surely learned his lesson. Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said, in response to the question of whether Republicans would hold Mr. Trump responsible for Jan. 6, 2021: “My personal view is that the president touched the hot stove on Wednesday and is unlikely to touch it again.” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) assured Americans that though refusing to convict Mr. Trump would not impair his continued eligibility for reelection as president, he could and should be held accountable in a court of law for any crimes he might have committed. The premise of the dark picture illuminated by Mr. Kagan is that the process of determining the 2024 Republican Party nominee for president is being treated as “politics as usual” by the party and the media. In unwitting confirmation, we were treated in the same section of the paper to George F. Will’s assessment that former South Carolina governor Nikki Haley is strategically biding her time to strike a devastating blow to Mr. Trump’s candidacy, perhaps after a successful showing in the New Hampshire primary almost two months away. Mr. Will dependably provides sage historical context with which to reflect on today’s politics. We would have been better served if Mr. Will had instead described the similarities of the current situation, as described by Mr. Kagan, to when Paul von Hindenburg, who won democratic reelection as president of the Weimar Republic in 1932, appointed defeated presidential candidate Adolf Hitler as chancellor. Hitler had absolute power in less than two months.”And this by that idiot Vance… From Senator Vance Press Office… ”NEW: Senator @jdvance1 in letter to Biden admin accuses WaPo writer of encouraging ‘open rebellion’ against US Vance gave Garland and Blinken a Jan. 6 deadline to answer several questions, including whether the DOJ will open an investigation into Kagan.” x.com/senvancepress/status/1732488874486534166?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nw
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Post by sunshine on Dec 9, 2023 23:44:38 GMT
If biden loses, the left can blame their own--the left wingers taking to the streets chanting "Genocide Joe has got to go" and vowing they'll never vote for him. It appears a lot of young folks are vowing not to vote for him either.
Point fingers at the right all you all want, but his demise would come from the lefties.
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Post by morecowbell on Dec 9, 2023 23:50:12 GMT
onelasttime , you routinely dismiss opinion pieces coming from the Right as meaningless, and now you want to ignore facts in favor of opinion pieces.🤔 Got it. 🙄 I'll say it again: GemGirl once said: "It's impossible to negotiate successfully unless both parties are dealing in factual reality." 👉To which you enthusiastically agreed. You repeatedly change your rules whenever they don't work in your favor. 🙃
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