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Post by Lurkingpea on Dec 7, 2023 1:49:46 GMT
My husband loves his job, he loves the people he works with and what he does. I love the paycheck and his benefits. Since covid he has been 95% work from home. He starts work at 530 am. When I get home at 430 he is still working. Two nights a week he has meetings from 10pm until about midnight. His company is based in Asia. They schedule these two meetings a week for their work day. The team DH primarily work with are in the Central Time Zone and Eastern Time Zone. There are 2 people on Pacific Standard Time.
Someone who used to work here is back in Japan and doesn’t want any remote workers. My DH had a 45 minute commute each way prior to covid, but did not have these twice weekly meetings. Now that he will have to go back to the office what would be reasonable for him to work? I think the person back in Japan still expects him to work his day shift and these meetings. My DH is not sure if he will be allowed to do meetings from home.
What would be reasonable time frame for DH to work and how does he lay that out without being difficult and losing his job? Prior to Covid he was home by 300 pm, but with all the changes since Covid like meetings, Zoom. the general expansion of his job he works longer hours now.
He works easily 12 hours a day plus those meetings, but since he is home it seems different. I don’t think that will be sustainable or reasonable with a 1.5 hour commute.
He is already upset because he bought his dream truck and put all these horribly expensive upgrades and customizations on it and he knows we cannot afford the gas for him to commute with it. He is already complaining about having to trade it in. I told him to cool his jets it doesn’t need to done today, but he is worked up.
Mostly venting, but wondering if anyone has any advice for DH
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hannahruth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,714 
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Post by hannahruth on Dec 7, 2023 1:58:41 GMT
My thoughts are that he needs to cool his heels a bit and then talk to someone who would actually know the answers to his problems.
No good talking now as, if he is upset/p*ssed off or whatever, it will not be a very constructive conversation and he may say things he could regret.
Has a time frame been given for these changes? If so I would been trying to find some resolution before it is in place. If it is not already.
Good luck - nothing like having major changes in the employment aspect of your life when there is not a lot you can do about them.
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Post by mom on Dec 7, 2023 2:29:37 GMT
I would think he would be able to have the meetings at night from home. He needs to ask and get concrete answers before freaking out.
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Post by dewryce on Dec 7, 2023 2:36:36 GMT
How much more is he working now than when he was in the office? Has he been compensated for it?
My first thought is that he definitely needs to cool off before he has a conversation with anyone that matters about this. Then he needs to determine if the decision has already been made. Actually, before that he should write up the changes to his job and any compensation. That way if the decision hasn’t been made he can have a calm conversation about having been willing to do these things for his company, but if he is required to go back to the office he would be unable to continue working the extra 24 hours a week as he’d not have any time at home. No way would I be willing to go in for those 10-midnight meetings. Or I would only be willing to go in for them, but not also WFH. that’s 3 hours a day in his vehicle twice a week. I’d also ask why the change is being requested. Maybe the person in Japan really just wants them in the office when he is meeting with them. Lots to find out before he goes in guns blazing.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 7, 2023 2:55:51 GMT
Am I understanding that he will be in the office 5 days a week, plus the meetings?
What hours will he be working in the office?
He could say that he willingly worked the extra hours from home because he was not driving for 3 hours a day(of course, probably illegal)..
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Post by Lurkingpea on Dec 7, 2023 3:07:34 GMT
It was decided and announced to him last week. He will be starting when they can get him an office set up. He doesn't have a space right now as his office was given away. The only space they have currently is in an open area and since he is always on screen talking with other people they are moving someone else out of a private office and having to order him what he needs to work that way at the office. He does no work with anyone actually in the office. He works primarily with the people spread across the US.
I too agree he needs to cool down. He isn't fussing at work at all. He is saving that for me.
He used to work 530-230 or so. He is salaried. Sometime during Covid his job expanded so he is now working with the global team. Prior to Covid there were no late meetings.
He is not sure what his expected hours will be. That is part of what he wants to find out but is not sure how to word it without getting testy. Frankly right now he works 70 hours a week which is doable when he isn't commuting, it won't be if they expect him to be at the office all that time.
He also doesn't want to work 5:30-230 MWF and then have late days at the office T and TH for those late night meetings. I also don't want him driving home at 1230 am twice a week knowing he has to be up at 430 am the next day.
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Post by busy on Dec 7, 2023 3:16:50 GMT
Am I understanding that he will be in the office 5 days a week, plus the meetings? What hours will he be working in the office? He could say that he willingly worked the extra hours from home because he was not driving for 3 hours a day(of course, probably illegal).. What would be illegal? I’m assuming he’s salaried. (This doesn’t mean I think working 70 hours a week indefinitely is ok, just that for a salaried person, it’s most likely legal, depending on some specidics). OP, I’d recommend he create a schedule for himself that accommodates those meetings (at home, it’s unreasonable to be at the office 5:30 am - 12:30 am the next day; also include a later start the following days - five hours between work shifts for sleep is also not reasonable). He can share it with his manager in a non-confrontational manner and with a presumptive “I wanted to let you know the hours i plan to be in the office each week, to both meet the return to office expectations but also incorporate the things that have changed since we were last in the office full-time, like the night meetings. This addresses our business needs while also giving me reasonable work-life balance.” If they push back, they can negotiate. But he’s going to be in a position of strength if he leads with a proposal rather than waiting to get instructions. |
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Post by cmpeter on Dec 7, 2023 3:17:15 GMT
I think it’s reasonable that he takes the late evening meetings from home.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 7, 2023 3:25:10 GMT
Am I understanding that he will be in the office 5 days a week, plus the meetings? What hours will he be working in the office? He could say that he willingly worked the extra hours from home because he was not driving for 3 hours a day(of course, probably illegal).. What would be illegal? I’m assuming he’s salaried. it was not mentioned that he was salaried before I posted, but was before you posted. Sorry to be wrong. |
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Post by ntsf on Dec 7, 2023 4:30:10 GMT
my dh worked at jobs where he was talking to people in london and asia from the pacific coast. your dh needs to meet with the boss and lay out a 40 hour schedule.. an occasional extra meeting should be ok.. but 70 hour weeks are no good. they are asking for it cause he has been willing to do it.
he needs to decide how to approach this.. but it is not fair to you or him for him to give all his time and energy to work. not worth it.
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Post by don on Dec 7, 2023 5:25:17 GMT
So they want to rent office space for 2 people? What about the Central and Eastern people?
It would have to be a very lucrative job for me to put up with those hours, to the point gas mileage wouldn't matter.
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Post by chaosisapony on Dec 7, 2023 5:32:40 GMT
The expectation of him doing a 70 hour work week indefinitely from home or from the office just because he is salaried is not acceptable. If I were him the first thing I would do is get a set schedule of hours of close to 40 in exchange for his commute into the office.
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Post by Zee on Dec 7, 2023 6:01:15 GMT
I agree that if he's working 70 hrs a week, is the salary really all that good once you look at the hourly rate? It can't be that wonderful if he won't be able to afford gas for his twice daily 45 minute commute. Either that or he was already overextended before buying that truck. You'll have to be realistic about that.
I really feel for him on the late night meetings--it's bullshit to have to stay awake or loose sleep to accommodate others outside of your normal work hours.
It seems I am routinely expected to make time for some stupid class or meeting that requires 2 hrs in the car to get there at times I should be sleeping. I've literally had to sleep in my car for a mandatory 30 min daytime class that was actually only 15 minutes and could have been an online module. But that's because no one cares about night shift.
Your DH should absolutely not be required to be in the office for an international meeting that's going to be by zoom anyway. That's just stupid.
DH is salaried and was recently required to go back in the office again, but he only has to do it once a week. And his international meetings can be done at home.
If I was him I'd seriously start looking elsewhere if at all feasible, or at the very least, cutting back some of the time he's giving them.
And if I was required to go in for meetings that late you can bet I wouldn't spend 70 hours working at salary.
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SweetieBsMom
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Posts: 4,785
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Dec 7, 2023 11:38:34 GMT
He needs to talk to someone at work. I wouldn't be doing the late meetings from the office, there is no need, none. Can he go back to his pre-covid hours with the caveat that the morning after the late meetings, he's coming in late?
I know I'll be working 70-80 hours a week Jan-April. Nature of the beast. I also know when I have late meetings, my boss would let me start later the next days if I wanted (I don't, dogs are up whether I have late meetings or not). And I never take the late meetings from the office (when I was in the office), I would drive home and take them from home.
He definitely needs to map out what will work for him then sit down with management and work it out.
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Post by littlemama on Dec 7, 2023 14:06:04 GMT
First, he should never have started working 70 hours a week. That is insane.
He should go back to his pre-covid hours plus the meetings, which I would not even ask about being at home. They are outside of his working hours, so there should be no expectation of him returning to the office for a Zoom meeting.
Typically, companies want people back in the office because they erroneously think people are doing less when they wfh. I wouldnt give this or any company 70 hours a week.
I work so I can live. Work is not my life.
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peppermintpatty
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Post by peppermintpatty on Dec 7, 2023 14:16:50 GMT
He absolutely should not have to be in the office for those meetings. That is outside of normal business hours. I agree he needs to outline what he has been doing and how it needs to change. As for working all those hours, did he ever talk to them about banking hours? I did that when I was salaried and I would use those banked hours when I wanted time off. My boss was fine with it and I worked so much that I got an additional couple of weeks off every year. I am back to hourly plus 1.5 for overtime and I am much happier getting paid for what I work.
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peppermintpatty
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Post by peppermintpatty on Dec 7, 2023 14:17:22 GMT
First, he should never have started working 70 hours a week. That is insane. He should go back to his pre-covid hours plus the meetings, which I would not even ask about being at home. They are outside of his working hours, so there should be no expectation of him returning to the office for a Zoom meeting. Typically, companies want people back in the office because they erroneously think people are doing less when they wfh. I wouldnt give this or any company 70 hours a week. I work so I can live. Work is not my life. Well said! |
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uksue
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Post by uksue on Dec 7, 2023 14:49:32 GMT
I can't imagine working those hours with a commute on top. Do you have a family?
Would he get mileage compensation? Could he afford an economical runaround for the commute? Really I think the truck is the least important consideration, however- especially if he'll never get time to enjoy it! I think firms are using COVID as a way of scaring people into unreasonable working hrs etc as I'm sure he's scared of losing his job. I hope he can get it sorted.Why do these things so frequently happen this time of year?
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Post by Merge on Dec 7, 2023 15:54:53 GMT
My DH dealt with this for a few years pre-Covid when he had a position that interacted globally. As I recall, he took the 5 AM meetings at home, then showered and went to the office. He also sometimes had late night meetings - again, at home. I’d say he put in 45 hours/week in the office plus an hour commute each way, then the extra meeting hours at home.
It was not ideal, but the job was a stepping stone to bigger and better things. Perhaps it’s time for your DH to start looking for his next step up? In the mean time, I agree with him presenting a proposed schedule as a basis for negotiation.
If he does plan to start looking elsewhere, maybe you guys could lease a cheap-ish, small car that is more energy efficient that he could use for the commute. Just as a temporary thing while he has to commute. There are still plenty of opportunities with companies who allow workers to be 100% remote, particularly in the tech sector. What does your DH do?
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