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Post by dewryce on Dec 11, 2023 21:09:58 GMT
Let me start with saying I have little personal experience with anyone neurodivergent. So, I have read along but not commented because I did not feel informed enough to speak to that aspect of it. But I hate to deprive anyone of the benefit of my opinion - lol (a joke... honestly, just a joke), so I'm weighing in. He definitely does better with a complete list with details of things to do. I have written out MANY very detailed versions of them for different aspects of the house. But then he decides not to use them because he thinks this time he’ll remember everything. Or, he’ll use the list but not physically check everything off and misses quite a bit. That bothers me because he knows these things will happen but doesn’t want to admit it to himself sometimes. There has got to be some level of adaptation to the tasks that need to be done around the house. If we don't learn to adapt, how do we expect to function at work? I wondered about your husband at work, dewryce . Does he need those lists and that level of accountability at work? Sometimes, people don't solve a problem until we make it *their* problem to solve. And then jeremysgirl commented in basically the same direction if I am reading her right. My husband and I have very different personality types. He's a total type A workaholic and I'm waayyy more laid back and relaxed. We've had to learn to adapt to one another around the house keeping those differences in mind. Most of the time that goes smoothly but we certainly have times of getting really aggravated at each other's expectations of *how* things will get done. Communication is the key for us. He does have some issues at work, but not to the same degree. He’s an occupational therapist so his job mostly involves working with people, and paperwork. The paperwork is a struggle now, he's worked on getting better but I’m sure occasionally needs reminders. It was a lot worse when he was director. He hated it so much I encouraged him to step down. But as far as cleaning type things the only thing he has to do is pick up some of the tools they use in therapy. I used to work with in same building with him, that is definitely not his strong suit. Oh, I’ve had him write out the lists plenty of times as well. And then add to them when he invariably misses half a dozen things. I’ve stopped helping completely in the kitchen when he’s not making an effort and then it gets absolutely terrible. I used to step in at this point to help him get to a good “starting over with a clean slate” point, but he’d do the same things so I’ve stopped with that. But I agree with you, for the most he does better in the future when he’s been part of the solution, been responsible for it. The biggest issue is living in the mess in the meantime. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 11, 2023 21:17:56 GMT
Well, I think I need a break. If you think I can overcome all my challenges, then you've got me wrong. If you think I don't need sensitivity at times, then you've missed out on a lot of very vulnerable posts I've put out there including the fact that I struggle just to take a shower. If you don't think I have to prioritize what is important in life and what isn't and let some of that stuff go, I do. I even had a child that was more disabled by neurodivergent conditions than I am. I am surrounded by a family of people with different conditions and levels of ability. Your comment here about me thinking it's a personal failing to not be able to overcome your disabilities is *incorrect*. And it is a huge slap right in the face of all the freaking work I have to do to maintain the life I have. I have not overcome anything. One person’s opinion that in all likelihood does NOT reflect how the rest of us view you. One person’s opinion. If you need a break, by all means, take one. But don’t let one person be what drives you off. I would surely miss you and your raw honesty about your life. And I think she’s dead wrong in her assessment of you. Thank you but I just needed to walk away this afternoon and collect myself. That was very upsetting to me. There are other things going on in my life right now that are factoring into it. But I needed time to regain my composure. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 11, 2023 21:17:56 GMT
Well, I think I need a break. If you think I can overcome all my challenges, then you've got me wrong. If you think I don't need sensitivity at times, then you've missed out on a lot of very vulnerable posts I've put out there including the fact that I struggle just to take a shower. If you don't think I have to prioritize what is important in life and what isn't and let some of that stuff go, I do. I even had a child that was more disabled by neurodivergent conditions than I am. I am surrounded by a family of people with different conditions and levels of ability. Your comment here about me thinking it's a personal failing to not be able to overcome your disabilities is *incorrect*. And it is a huge slap right in the face of all the freaking work I have to do to maintain the life I have. I have not overcome anything. One person’s opinion that in all likelihood does NOT reflect how the rest of us view you. One person’s opinion. If you need a break, by all means, take one. But don’t let one person be what drives you off. I would surely miss you and your raw honesty about your life. And I think she’s dead wrong in her assessment of you. Thank you but I just needed to walk away this afternoon and collect myself. That was very upsetting to me. There are other things going on in my life right now that are factoring into it. But I needed time to regain my composure. |
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Post by dewryce on Dec 11, 2023 21:30:53 GMT
I believe people do need to take personal responsibility. You know you have an issue, get help, professional if needed. And if that doesn’t work, try something else. Same with me and my bipolar disorder. I totally agree that people need to take personal responsibility. As for the professional help, I've been guilty of telling people to get help myself, but the reality is that a vast majority simply can't. Mental health care is expensive, very often not covered by insurance, and even if you can afford it, the wait lists can be discouraging to say the least. I agree with that, and I can see how my post may have come across a little flippant about it like it’s just so easy to do. We have financial struggles and tons of medical costs, including psychiatric bills, so I recognize how hard it is and definitely didn't mean to be dismissive about it. I do believe though that there are people who can afford the help and refuse to get it, I personally know several. There is also a lot of free help available online and in libraries. And people (I’m looking at you husband) don’t always make use of those when they’re able to either. They see the issues they’re causing their family and don’t put in the effort to try and get better. For me, even though those efforts don’t always/often work, I’m happy when the effort is simply being made when he accepts responsibility and tries to improve. As I’ve pointed out to him, we still have issues with my bipolar disorder, but they’re easier for him to handle when he sees me putting in the work. And a big difference is that I'm the one that brings up the issues, talk about where and how I’m struggling, what I’ve tried, and ask for his input because he will notice things about my illness I don’t. I’m taking responsibility, doing research, keep trying different solutions, and asking for help when needed. As I should, it’s my illness. I’m asking for similar effort. With DH, I have offered myself as a resource countless times. Having a hard time with something? Tried and can’t figure it out? Come to me instead of just not doing something, I’d be thrilled to help. Again, because details, thinking things through, coming up with a plan of attack, resolving issues, seeing different solutions is what I do - what I’m great at and his brain just doesn’t function well in those areas. Mentally, that puts some things on me to come up with a solution, but in these type of instances I am happy to do so when he is willing to acknowledge he is having troubles and wants and will accept input, as well as give feedback on what he thinks of different ideas. Again, we are a team, and we each have different strengths and weaknesses that we help each other with, but a team doesn’t work unless all players aren’t putting in the effort. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 11, 2023 21:35:41 GMT
Well, I think I need a break. If you think I can overcome all my challenges, then you've got me wrong. If you think I don't need sensitivity at times, then you've missed out on a lot of very vulnerable posts I've put out there including the fact that I struggle just to take a shower. If you don't think I have to prioritize what is important in life and what isn't and let some of that stuff go, I do. I even had a child that was more disabled by neurodivergent conditions than I am. I am surrounded by a family of people with different conditions and levels of ability. Your comment here about me thinking it's a personal failing to not be able to overcome your disabilities is *incorrect*. And it is a huge slap right in the face of all the freaking work I have to do to maintain the life I have. I have not overcome anything. (((Hugs))) Please don't take a break due to me. I apologise -I obviously didn't do a good job of putting my thoughts into words. I KNOW from your posts here how very hard you work to achieve all you have achieved. BUT sometimes even WITH that much work, less is accomplished is what I was trying (and failing) to say. I'll back out of this thread now but please know I am sorry for insulting you Thank you for your apology. Your comments really hurt. There is a balance to be struck IMO between acceptance and pushing yourself to achieve more. There are things about me that I just don't have it in me to do battle with and there are things about me that I have to constantly work on no matter how much I want to opt out and then there are things that I actively choose to work on because they are congruent with the kind of life I want to live. I will think harder about the way I post because I am clearly misunderstood. You aren't the first person to say this to me. But when this happens I feel like my words about how hard some things really are for me get overlooked and all that is seen is me in terms of what I accomplish. It feels minimizing to not be able to recognize all the work that goes on behind the scenes to make these things happen. And I know this is probably silly but I always think someone is dismissing me like saying lucky you when some of things I've been through don't feel very lucky at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the blessings I do have, very grateful. But I'm a firm believer that our lives are a mixture of luck/blessings and the blood, sweat, and tears we put into it. Both deserve recognition. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 11, 2023 21:47:59 GMT
My perception of you is that you're very thoughtful and introspective. While you're struggling, you see other people who also struggle and want to support them. So, you share and encourage others to keep moving fwd even in the midst of your issues or grief. Your posts on this board tend to inspire me to do more to help myself and that's a great thing. I find myself very encouraged by your posts jeremysgirl. You take your experiences and share them in order to help others and you are so empathetic to others. You are a very strong woman, but that doesn't mean that you don't face daily challenges. Even so, I know that if I needed you you would put your challenge aside and be right there for me. That speaks volumes to your character and your compassion. If you left I would feel a huge void, but I would also support any decision that you made. I just adore you and consider you a good friend. I love you friend. Thank you for recognizing I was hurt. ❤️ |
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Post by dewryce on Dec 11, 2023 21:51:14 GMT
a strategy that works for us is to keep all horizontal surfaces as clear as possible. I noticed that he would keep the bathroom counter cleaned off when it was basically spotless. unfortunately at my house, a cleared off, spotless horizontal surface is an invitation to pile all things on it - I've tried clearing them off completely, I've tried clearing them off and strategically adding a couple of decorative items to indicate that it's not clear because it's not being used...nope I know how frustrating that must be for you! You could try what I finally did for a while because I was so.freaking.tired. of him leaving a trail of devastation in his wake. And nothing worked aside from following him around. Any time I found crap he left laying around I put it inside his pillowcase and/or on his side of the bed so he had to deal with it before going to bed. Clothes, dirty dishes, trash, paperwork…everything.  I'm mostly kidding about suggesting it because it’s passive aggressive, which I loathe. But, I tried a million other things before this, including just putting it all together in various places around the house and even in a basket on his side of the bed. It was super extreme, but it did help. Along with the PITA of it all, what really made an impression was to see everything he left laying around in one day all together. In his mind “it’s just a cup.” But all those “just a”s add up! |
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Post by wordyphotogbabe on Dec 12, 2023 1:38:49 GMT
This was a huge area of contention for my ex and me. We were together 14 years, and he never did housework or childcare. I could understand, although didn't like or appreciate it, him thinking it was "my job" to do the housework when I was a SAHM and he worked FT but there were periods of our lives when he was working PT and/or I was working FT and he still didn't contribute in any way.
My husband has always done more housework than I do. He enjoys and feels most accomplished when he can use his body and see the tangible product of his hard work, and he knows there are certain chores (laundry) that I absolutely loathe. I am currently working FT while he is on layoff, and he is doing most of the housework. The most important aspect of all this is that we have had numerous conversations about this topic and agreed every time as to whom was doing what. We also both have an understanding that if at any time, one of us is no longer comfortable with our current arrangement, we'll bring it up and renegotiate.
Part of the ongoing discussions and negotiations is because my children & I have ADHD (and one is also on the spectrum), and my husband does not. We work very hard as a family to appreciate everyone's neurodivergence while also not using it as an excuse; it's a constant balancing act.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,323 
Location: Colorado
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Post by snyder on Dec 12, 2023 7:07:47 GMT
Close to 50 years ago, my brother was teased by his work colleagues because when asked what he did over the weekend, he told them he baked cookies and washed windows. His wife worked retail and often worked at least one of the weekend days. He figured they both worked, so they both needed to contribute to the household chores as well.
When I was first married, my husband worked in a mine. Good money so I didn't have to work. I cooked all our meals, did the laundry, packed lunches, shopped, cleaned, the whole bit. Many of the guys would wear street clothes to work, change into dirty muddy work clothes all week and then bring their dirty clothes home that they themselves would have to wash on their days off. They carpooled often as the mine was a little ways away. Guy came to pick husband up and he had clean work clothes on every single day. He told husband his wife would tell him to get F'd if wanted clean clothes every day. Difference, husband didn't expect that from me, but I expected that of myself because I was home all day long while he worked his butt off. Some also teased him because he had a nicely packed lunch every day as well.
My sister on the otherhand complained constantly that her husband didn't do enough to help. He was a forman for our county fleet department and he worked more than 40 hours a week and was often on call. He would come home, eat dinner, and go to the garage and work on HER family and friend's vehicles to late hours for free, get up and do it all over again. She didn't work much, she would start a job, work a couple of months and quit. She did that for years, so I didn't consisder her full time working. She would cut the lawn on a weekday and complain he didn't do it, but she would never wait til the weekend when he had more time to do it. He was constantly helping others in all different ways, go drag their car home, go fix a flat in the middle of the night. He completelty remodled their home tearing out walls and putting up others. He completely landscapped their back yard with a fountain and rock garden, hot tub, enclosed patio. And yet she would get ticked off if he didn't have the trash taken out 5 minutes after she asked him to do it. We always teased that our family like him better than her. Awful, but she was awful in her way of thinking about the household chores!
I think it is whatever works for each person, but communication upfront is a huge key in it being successful.
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