|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 6:03:35 GMT
Kevin O ‘Leary also thought there was zero chance Trump would not get re-elected in 2020. So yeah, not too worried about what he thinks. And no, not every company inflates the value of their properties. And not to the extent that Trump did. He valued the Westchester county property at nearly 10 times what it was actually worth. He tripled the size of his condo in Trump tower. He inflated Mar-a-Lago from $28 million to $612 million. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/27/trump-property-inflated-values/“A discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades,” the judge wrote, “can only be considered fraud.”
Here are your Trump-inflated values. If we were to inflate the value to the extent that the value of Trump Tower was inflated, your $400,000 swells to $1,091,306, an increase of $691,306.
If we apply the level of inflation used for Mar-a-Lago, we get a range from $6,181,589 to $13,602,455. Even if we use the New York Post's generous assessment, the value was still inflated, lifting your $400,000 to $816,147.
If we use the level of inflation applied to the property at Seven Springs, your $400,000 becomes $3,880,000. Using the inflation applied to the property at 40 Wall Street, we get an inflated value ranging from $1,049,400 in 2011 to $544,741 in 2015.
Then there are the golf clubs. Inflating your $400,000 to the same degree as the inflation applied to the club at Briarcliff, your investment jumps to $1,780,126. The inflation used for the club in Los Angeles raises your $400,000 to $1,415,397.
Congratulations on your sudden surge in net worth. And good luck in court.
Everyone does it and it’s not a crime if no one gets hurt are not justifications for committing crimes.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 6:08:45 GMT
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 6:26:31 GMT
Trump is finally and justifiably paying the consequences for his unethical and illegal business practices slate.com/business/2022/09/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-appraisal-taxes-seven-springs.htmlProperty values are difficult to assess absent a sale. Appraisers are notorious for valuing properties in ways that benefit their clients. Practically speaking, there’s some wiggle room. But at some point, valuations can be so high or low that no reasonable person could believe them to be accurate. On Wednesday, James alleged, and seems to have clear proof, that Trump and his organization routinely increased the value of his properties with no basis in fact to gain a variety of benefits, including both the ability to get loans and to get them with very low interest rates. While Trump might argue that the dispute over the values offered simply reflects a difference of opinion or was done without the intent to deceive, the attorney general has also asserted that Trump and his organization misrepresented cold, hard facts, like the square footage of his own apartment. As I like to tell my law students, there is always a tax angle, and this case is no exception. As detailed in the complaint, some of the strongest evidence that Trump intentionally inflated the value of his properties—and hence his net worth—are found in claims he contemporaneously made for state property tax purposes. Not surprisingly, he gave low valuations to tax authorities, while giving much higher ones to his possible lenders. As the attorney general sees it, either he committed tax fraud by using unreasonably low valuations when dealing with tax authorities, or he committed fraud on his lenders and insurers by using valuations significantly higher than those he reported to the state and federal governments. And there is some evidence in the complaint that Trump was fully aware of the difficulties of claiming one value for tax purposes and another for financial purposes. For instance, he apparently took the position that Trump Tower in Chicago was worthless, creating a substantial loss that could lower his tax liability. Not wanting to contradict that claim, he excluded the value of that building from his Statements of Financial Condition, which he provided to lenders. He was apparently less careful with his Las Vegas property, tinkering with assumptions and the discount rate to provide one lower valuation to Clark County, and a much higher one to potential investors and bankers. Tax issues also come into play with his Trump Seven Springs property in Westchester County, New York. He represented that estate was worth almost $300 million, based on the notion that the property could be developed into a number of $23 million estates, despite the fact that he did not have approval from various towns to do that. At the same time, he was working on creating a conservation easement for the land that would preclude the very development he described in his valuation. A conservation easement binds current and future owners from developing property, which arguably creates a public benefit and reduces the value of the property in question. To compensate taxpayers for creating such easements, Congress permits them to deduct the value of a conservation easement as a charitable donation. As such, this is one of the few times when a higher valuation is good for tax purposes, because it increases the value of the easement created. According to the complaint, contemporaneous valuations done for tax purposes yielded a number much lower than the almost $300 million asserted in financial documents, and even that smaller number overstated the property’s value, leading to an improperly high tax deduction. Inflating the value of the property for lenders induces them to make loans they might not otherwise have made and to charge less in interest rates, on the theory that they were taking less risk. As it stands, many of those loans are coming due in the next few years, and it is not clear whether or how Trump and his organization will be able to repay them. Meanwhile, understating the value of property for tax purposes allows Trump to pay less in taxes than he otherwise should, leaving the rest of us to make up the difference in the form of higher taxes or reduced government services.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Feb 19, 2024 7:12:04 GMT
If anything, the claim of “everybody does it” is even more reason to go after fraud. The rationale behind laws like these is it’s in the public interest to have an honest marketplace. Without the risk of legal jeopardy, businesses would have the absolute freedom to be as dishonest as they want. Additionally, just because there’s no victim now does not guarantee there won’t be a future victim should the fraudulent practice be allowed to continue.
As to whether the banks, lending cos, insurance cos, etc relied or did not rely on the fraudulent valuations and statements is neither here nor there. Reliance is not an element of the crime.
Despite this, having read Engoron’s ruling, he clearly states (p. 75, bolding mine, SFC=Statement of Financial Condition): 'However, the Court notes that, although not required, there is ample documentary and testimonial evidence that the banks, insurance companies, and the City of New York did, in fact, rely on defendants to be truthful and accurate in their financial submissions. The testimony in this case makes abundantly clear that most, if not all, loans began life based on numbers on an SFC, which they interpreted in their own unique way. The testimony confirmed, rather than refuted, the overriding importance of SFCs in lending decisions."
(The SFCs were also used to ascertain whether Trump Org was maintaining its obligations for securing the loans. There were instances when it wasn’t, and there were witnesses who testified that had they known the figures were fraudulent, they would have altered their decisions.)
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 19, 2024 7:14:03 GMT
Kevin O ‘Leary also thought there was zero chance Trump would not get re-elected in 2020. So yeah, not too worried about what he thinks. He knows way more than you do about the real estate industry and what he thinks about it holds more weight than what aj2hall on 2 peas refugees thinks about it.
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 19, 2024 7:27:29 GMT
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 12:17:50 GMT
Kevin O ‘Leary also thought there was zero chance Trump would not get re-elected in 2020. So yeah, not too worried about what he thinks. He knows way more than you do about the real estate industry and what he thinks about it holds more weight than what aj2hall on 2 peas refugees thinks about it. I’m not relying on my opinion. I trust the judge and the prosecutors know what they’re doing. They are more trustworthy and knowledgeable than a guy whose credentials are being on TV. And no one else except this guy and maybe Fox have come out and said the judgement will be a problem for the real estate industry. If the real estate industry truly is at risk from the judgement that knowingly inflating property values on a massive scale is fraudulent, then maybe the real estate industry needs a shake up. The judgement is only a problem for Trump and the Republicans. I’m not surprised, but the fact that you’re defending Trump over criminal activity is kind of telling. He was found guilty of fraud on a massive scale. At some point, I hope that you and Republicans will do some soul searching and really examine just how far you’re willing to go to defend this guy. Apparently, if there is a line or a bridge too far where you will stop defending Trump, he hasn’t crossed it yet. He incited an insurrection, tried to overturn the results of an election, threatened to withdraw from NATO, invited Putin to invade Europe, was found guilty of fraud on a massive scale and was found guilty of sexual assault in court. And you continue to defend him. Your excuses for Trump are really weak- there was no victim and everyone does it just don’t hold up. Here’s an extensive list of the properties where Trump inflated the value. ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 19, 2024 14:16:46 GMT
When they say the quiet part out loud. @amuse @amuse New York’s Democrat governor assures real estate developers that they won’t be targeted for real estate valuations like Trump. She just admitted it was a purely partisan political prosecution of Trump. h/t @jrobfrommn x.com/amuse/status/1759222317694013507?s=20
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 14:51:02 GMT
You left out important context again. Businesses have nothing to fear if they are honest, disclose assets and follow the rules and the law. Just like Trump's faulty logic that Americans should be afraid because of the search at Mar-a-Lago, if the FBI can search his place, they could search anyone's. No, not true. Most Americans do not have access to classified documents nor do they refuse to return them to the National Archives. Most businesses do not hide assets, massively inflate them and break the rules and the law. thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4474774-hochul-tells-ny-businesses-not-to-fear-about-trump-verdict-nothing-to-worry-about/ “I think that this is really an extraordinary, unusual circumstance that the law-abiding and rule-following New Yorkers who are business people have nothing to worry about, because they’re very different than Donald Trump and his behavior,” Hochul responded.
The governor provided reassurance to New York businesses after the ruling. “By and large, they are honest people and they’re not trying to hide their assets and they’re following the rules,” she said of the people who own and conduct business in the New York City area.
“And so this judge determined that Donald Trump did not follow the rules. He was prosecuted and truly, the governor of the state of New York does not have a say in the size of a fine, and we want to make sure that we don’t have that level of interference,” she said.
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 19, 2024 15:37:43 GMT
You left out important context again. Businesses have nothing to fear if they are honest, disclose assets and follow the rules and the law. Just like Trump's faulty logic that Americans should be afraid because of the search at Mar-a-Lago, if the FBI can search his place, they could search anyone's. No, not true. Most Americans do not have access to classified documents nor do they refuse to return them to the National Archives. Most businesses do not hide assets, massively inflate them and break the rules and the law. thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4474774-hochul-tells-ny-businesses-not-to-fear-about-trump-verdict-nothing-to-worry-about/ “I think that this is really an extraordinary, unusual circumstance that the law-abiding and rule-following New Yorkers who are business people have nothing to worry about, because they’re very different than Donald Trump and his behavior,” Hochul responded.
The governor provided reassurance to New York businesses after the ruling. “By and large, they are honest people and they’re not trying to hide their assets and they’re following the rules,” she said of the people who own and conduct business in the New York City area.
“And so this judge determined that Donald Trump did not follow the rules. He was prosecuted and truly, the governor of the state of New York does not have a say in the size of a fine, and we want to make sure that we don’t have that level of interference,” she said. Per the NY Times: the bank says his exaggerated net worth did NOT affect his loans. They said, they enjoyed doing business with him and are looking forward to doing more business with him. THIS is the reality. NOT the narrative being fed to you. Kevin O’Leary: "What developer doesn’t ask for the highest price valued for any building they built? If this judgment sticks. Every developer must be jailed. They must be found guilty. They must be put out of business. You can’t do this to one and not another. It’s not about Trump. It’s appalling. It’s unjust. I would go as far to say it’s un-American. We’re just stunned. You have no idea. The shock wave sent through the real estate industry. Insane." So the fact that Kathy Hochul is saying she is not going after other real estate developers is suspect. Either she must, or she's showing that this was clearly just a weapon against Trump.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 22:30:04 GMT
You left out important context again. Businesses have nothing to fear if they are honest, disclose assets and follow the rules and the law. Just like Trump's faulty logic that Americans should be afraid because of the search at Mar-a-Lago, if the FBI can search his place, they could search anyone's. No, not true. Most Americans do not have access to classified documents nor do they refuse to return them to the National Archives. Most businesses do not hide assets, massively inflate them and break the rules and the law. thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4474774-hochul-tells-ny-businesses-not-to-fear-about-trump-verdict-nothing-to-worry-about/ “I think that this is really an extraordinary, unusual circumstance that the law-abiding and rule-following New Yorkers who are business people have nothing to worry about, because they’re very different than Donald Trump and his behavior,” Hochul responded.
The governor provided reassurance to New York businesses after the ruling. “By and large, they are honest people and they’re not trying to hide their assets and they’re following the rules,” she said of the people who own and conduct business in the New York City area.
“And so this judge determined that Donald Trump did not follow the rules. He was prosecuted and truly, the governor of the state of New York does not have a say in the size of a fine, and we want to make sure that we don’t have that level of interference,” she said. Per the NY Times: the bank says his exaggerated net worth did NOT affect his loans. They said, they enjoyed doing business with him and are looking forward to doing more business with him. THIS is the reality. NOT the narrative being fed to you. Kevin O’Leary: "What developer doesn’t ask for the highest price valued for any building they built? If this judgment sticks. Every developer must be jailed. They must be found guilty. They must be put out of business. You can’t do this to one and not another. It’s not about Trump. It’s appalling. It’s unjust. I would go as far to say it’s un-American. We’re just stunned. You have no idea. The shock wave sent through the real estate industry. Insane." So the fact that Kathy Hochul is saying she is not going after other real estate developers is suspect. Either she must, or she's showing that this was clearly just a weapon against Trump.Given Trump's indictments and the fines, I doubt banks are looking forward to doing more business with him. He put up his own collateral in the E Jean Carroll case. Repeating the same guy's opinion and bolding it does not make it a fact. The governor isn't going after other developers because investigating and prosecuting real estate developers is not one of her roles or responsibilities. She specifically said that her office was not involved in determining the fines. She was only trying to reassure law abiding real estate developers that they had nothing to fear. thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4474774-hochul-tells-ny-businesses-not-to-fear-about-trump-verdict-nothing-to-worry-about/Hochul said there was no way she would overrule Engoron’s decision because “we need a clear separation of powers.” She added that “that’s what was envisioned by our Founding Fathers.” "the governor of the state of New York does not have a say in the size of a fine, and we want to make sure that we don’t have that level of interference,”
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 22:58:08 GMT
Even a host on Fox disagrees with Trump's false claims that if they're coming after me, you'll be next.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 23:04:55 GMT
This is your "real estate expert"
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 19, 2024 23:24:43 GMT
For most of Trump's adult life, he falsely inflated his wealth. It's just catching up to him now. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/17/trump-hubris-family-empire-new-yorkTrump bloated his holdings, emblazoning his name in gold letters on everything he could get his hands on. He bought the Eastern airline shuttle and renamed it the Trump shuttle. He started the United States Football League. He built the Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City. He dumped Ivana for an actress, Marla Maples.
And he floated his greatest scheme of all, a multibillion-dollar complex over the West Side railyards, “a new mini-city on the Hudson River … containing thousands of luxury apartments, the world’s tallest building, a huge shopping mall and a television studio complex that he said would be ‘the largest and most spectacular’ in the world,” according to the New York Times. He called it Television City. In his plan, NBC would relocate from Rockefeller Center. Then he changed its name to Trump City. He would rebrand New York in his own image.
After seeming to approve the deal, Koch killed it in 1987. He wouldn’t become in effect Trump’s partner through tax abatements and zoning. The Television City debacle was the reverse of the Commodore bonanza. Trump called Koch “a moron”, and Koch called him “greedy, greedy, greedy”, and said that if he was “squealing like a stuck pig, I must have done something right”. The house of cards began to crumble.
Trump tried to cover his financial crisis with stories about his sex life. He leaked to the New York Post a fake quote, supposedly Maples’ statement about his sexual prowess, timed for just after Valentine’s Day 1990, splashed on the front page: Best Sex I Ever Had.
Spy magazine, edited by Kurt Andersen and Graydon Carter, had pegged Trump as “a short-fingered vulgarian” from the start. Along with the Village Voice, Spy pointed out Trump’s financial trickery for years. In April 1991, it published a compendium: How to Fool All of the People, All of the Time: How Donald Trump Fooled the Media, Used the Media to Fool the Banks, Used the Banks to Fool the Bondholders, and Used the Bondholders to Pay for the Yachts and Mansions and Mistresses.
Trump’s Atlantic City properties were leveraged with debt to the hilt. In November 1991, he failed to meet the debt payment. Fred dispatched a lawyer to buy $3.35m in chips at the Trump Castle casino to give Donald cash to meet the bill. The New Jersey gaming authorities found him guilty of violating the Casino Control Act and fined him $33,000. In 1998, the US Treasury fined Donald’s casino $477,000.
Trump filed six bankruptcies. He was forced to sell his airline, the Plaza Hotel on Fifth Avenue and his yacht, named Princess for his daughter Ivanka. The Taj Mahal and the Castle went belly up. Fortune dumped him from its list of billionaires. Forbes reported he had a negative net worth. The New York banks cut him off from future loans. They put him on an allowance to give him a chance to repay part of his debts. His casino company filed for bankruptcy protection in 2014 for the fifth time.
Trump eventually found a new lender to guarantee loans in Deutsche Bank. Its records were subpoenaed in the New York state financial fraud case. “The bank did not trust all of Trump’s numbers, but it underestimated the depth of Trump’s lies,” Forbes reported in 2023.
During the 2016 campaign, Donald lied that he was a self-made man who started with a measly $1m loan from Fred. But the New York Times, after reviewing his tax records, determined in 2018 that he had “received the equivalent today of at least $413m from his father’s real estate empire”.
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 20, 2024 2:19:38 GMT
Per the NY Times: the bank says his exaggerated net worth did NOT affect his loans. They said, they enjoyed doing business with him and are looking forward to doing more business with him. THIS is the reality. NOT the narrative being fed to you. Kevin O’Leary: "What developer doesn’t ask for the highest price valued for any building they built? If this judgment sticks. Every developer must be jailed. They must be found guilty. They must be put out of business. You can’t do this to one and not another. It’s not about Trump. It’s appalling. It’s unjust. I would go as far to say it’s un-American. We’re just stunned. You have no idea. The shock wave sent through the real estate industry. Insane." So the fact that Kathy Hochul is saying she is not going after other real estate developers is suspect. Either she must, or she's showing that this was clearly just a weapon against Trump.Given Trump's indictments and the fines, I doubt banks are looking forward to doing more business with him. You can doubt it all you want. That's what they testified to. Under oath.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 20, 2024 2:44:10 GMT
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 20, 2024 6:08:26 GMT
Hang on,..
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 20, 2024 12:32:07 GMT
www.publicnotice.co/p/engoron-trump-new-york-fraud-victims-explainedWe are all victims of Trump's fraud Stealing a little bit from everyone is still stealing.
LIZ DYE FEB 19, 2024
Is lying on your loan application to get better terms a victimless offense? Donald Trump and his supporters claim it is, but in damning detail, Justice Authur Engoron sketched out who was wronged in his 92-page verdict.
And it turns out, it’s not just lenders; it’s all of us.
On Friday afternoon, Engoron, after finding that the former president and his company submitted dozens of false financial reports to lenders and insurers, ordered them to disgorge $355 million in ill-gotten gains to the state of New York, plus a boatload of pre-judgment interest.
Trump and his sons are barred from serving as officers or directors of any New York corporation, including their own, for at least a couple of years. And the Trump Organization will get a full-time babysitter, in case whichever sock puppet the Trump boys get to stand in for them decides to engage in even more fraud.
“My father built the skyline of New York City, and this is the thanks he gets?” Eric Trump wailed on Fox News.
Eric’s dad was angrier and even less coherent, spending much of the weekend calling the judge a “communist” on Truth Social, in between posts hawking his new Payless Metallix sneaker line.
“This Election Interference and tyrannical Abuse of Power by a Crooked Judge and Crooked Attorney General cannot be tolerated,” Trump fulminated.
This Election Interference and tyrannical Abuse of Power by a Crooked Judge and Crooked Attorney General cannot be tolerated. My case was already won in the Appellate Division, and more than 80% of the frivolous claims were wiped out. Yet, as I suspected, and in order to hurt me and the Republican Party politically, Crooked and Corrupt Judge Arthur Engoron ignored his loss at the Appellate Division, and came up with an outrageous $355 Million Dollar fine against me. Using a statute that has never been applied like this before, the Corrupt Judge conspired with the Crooked Attorney General, Letitia James, and punished a liquid and beautiful Corporate Empire that started in New York, and has been successful all around the world….. There were no victims, and not one person testified there was any fraud. The actual witnesses established my Net Worth exceeded that reported in my Financial Statements as those Statements never included my most valuable Asset - the TRUMP Brand. The Highly Respected Expert Witness said my Financial Statements were among the best he has ever seen. I paid over $300 Million Dollars in taxes to New York City and State, and they want me gone. They are Crazed Lunatics who are destroying everything in their way. It all starts with Biden’s attacks on his Political Opponent! Source: Truth Social “There were no victims, and not one person testified there was any fraud,” Trump went on, adding that “The actual bankers who were involved in the loan transactions testified I was a highly sought-after ‘whale’ of a client with ‘one of the strongest personal balance sheets’ they had ever seen, and I was overqualified for the loans. Those banks earned more than $100 Million Dollars in profits doing business with me and my companies.”
Debunking Donald Trump’s lies is like trying to catch raindrops with your bare hands. But the most insidious lie here is that “there were no victims” — a talking point that quickly became canon in right-wing media and among Trump supporters.
In fact, as Engoron explained in his verdict, there were two categories of victims: The parties involved in the transactions with him, and all the rest of us.
The corporate victims The court found that Donald Trump, his sons, and the Trump Organization’s top executives conspired to pass off false statements of financial condition (SFCs) to lenders every single year. Most egregiously, they claimed that Trump’s condo in Trump Tower in Manhattan was 30,000 square feet, instead of 10,996 square feet — a fudge which increased his reported net worth by some $200 million. But fraud was a way of life for the Trump family.
For instance, Eric Trump testified that he had little understanding of the finances of the business he runs and is more of a “construction guy.” He also testified that he had no idea “until this case came into fruition” that the SFCs even existed. In reality, he was responsible for a Trump property known as “Seven Springs,” and repeatedly vouched — for the purpose of the SFCs — that it was worth $161 million, despite multiple appraisals valuing it somewhere between $5 million and $21 million.
In a normal world, we would have to rely on expert testimony to figure out what Trump got for telling so many lies about his net worth. But here, as the state’s expert witness Michiel McCarty pointed out, Deutsche Bank ran what was functionally a real-time control group by making loan offers from two separate departments.
For years, Trump went in what was essentially the front door, dealing with Deutsche’s Commercial Real Estate Division which would finance a loan based on the underlying value of the property itself (more or less). But in 2011, Jared Kushner introduced Trump to his family banker, Rosemary Vrablic, who worked in Deutsche’s Private Wealth Management Division.
Vrablic was in the business of “whales,” as Trump put it, and her deals were less about a single asset being used as collateral and more about the individual borrower. Vrablic and her bosses were willing to lend Trump money on extremely favorable terms, but he had to personally guarantee the notes.
The Commercial Division was offering non-recourse loans — that is, loans where the bank could take the mortgaged property in case of a default, but not Trump’s other assets. Meanwhile, the Private Wealth Division was offering much better rates on full recourse loans where Trump had to personally guarantee that the bank would get paid.
How much better? From Engoron’s verdict: In calculating the interest rate differentials for the perceived credit risks with and without a personal guarantee on the Doral loan, McCarty took the competing loan proposal terms that Deutsche Bank’s commercial real estate group had offered (which was LIBOR + 8% with a floor of LIBOR + 2%, or 10%) and compared them to the terms extended by Deutsche Bank’s Private Wealth Management Division that were contingent upon a personal guarantee from Donald Trump (which was between 1.8% and 4.1%, depending on whether it was pre- or post-renovation). [Emphasis added.]
All he had to do to get those sweet low rates was show that he was rich enough to be worth the risk. And that is where the SFCs come in, because Trump would never have qualified for those preferential rates if he’d been honest about his wealth and the real value of his cash reserves.
The Doral note, which was issued in 2011 from the Private Wealth Division, required him to maintain a net worth of $2.5 billion, not including his brand. It also required him to submit annual SFCs attesting that he was still wealthy enough to be worth the risk — an ongoing fraud that required the Trump Organization to spend an inordinate amount of time massaging the books to keep the bankers happy.
Applying McCarty’s calculations, Justice Engoron came up with a savings of $10 million per year on the Doral note alone because Trump got the lower rate:
In 2020 the Doral loan was $125,000,000. Applying the non-recourse rate of 10% (or .01) results in an interest payment of $12,500,000. Applying the recourse rate of 1.9348% (or .019348) results in an interest payment of $2,418,500. Subtracting the latter from the former yields a saving of $10,081,500.
And that’s just one loan!
Using McCarty’s formula and circumscribing the time period to comply with the statute of limitations, the court calculated a “reasonable approximation of the ill-gotten interest rate savings” for four loans:
$72,908,308 from 2014-2022 on the Doral loan; $53,423,209 from 2015-2022 on the Old Post Office loan; $17,443,359 from 2014-2022 on the Chicago loan; and $24,265,291 from 2015-2022 on the 40 Wall Street loan. And whether Deutsche Bank and the other lenders are complaining about it or not, that is money that Trump got from them by committing fraud. So if the question is, “Who was harmed here?” the answer is very clearly the lenders, who missed out on tens of millions of dollars they would have collected had Trump paid an interest rate commensurate with the actual level of risk the banks took when they loaned money to him.
More tangibly, if Trump hadn’t lied, someone else would have gotten these deals. And that person didn’t get the profit that he or she would have reaped if Trump hadn’t lied about his financial situation to make himself look more attractive.
For instance, in 2010, Trump won the concession from NYC Parks to run a golf course at Ferry Point, based in part on his claim that his net worth exceeded $3 billion and that he had $200 million in cash reserves. He then submitted fraudulent SFCs annually, along with a letter from his accountant stating that there had been no material adverse change in his financial position. In June 2023, he sold the concession to Bally’s, netting $60 million.
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 20, 2024 15:36:13 GMT
Although aj2hall you said it far better then I did!!! Otherwise .... think of how TFG claims he undervalued everything. On his state, and presumably federal taxes. He sure screwed every person in NYS by not paying taxes and we know one year he only paid $700+/- federal taxes and others zero, and he bragged about it. But specifically in NYS he hurt millions of people by claiming everything undervalued!!!
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 20, 2024 15:36:35 GMT
Bravo!!
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 20, 2024 19:04:52 GMT
Fani Willis has her own lies to worry about now.
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 20, 2024 19:14:53 GMT
Steve Cortes @cortessteve Superb legal and financial analysis of the NY vs Trump civil case from esteemed attorney Richard Porter. None of the “victims” allege any fraud, private asset values are always subject to debate, and you can’t “save Democracy” by destroying it. Analysis link "Engoron glosses over the most salient fact of this case – there was no victim –"Judge Engoron "Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that defendants have made all required payments on time." " The judge held that Trump and his affiliates overstated the value of certain of his assets, and therefore suggests (without corroborating testimony in his 92-page opinion) that Deutsche would not have offered the full recourse loans but for the overstatement of these particular assets." "Deutsche Bank’s witnesses testified that the bank assumed the value of the assets and liabilities were “broadly accurate,” then assumed Trump’s aggregate asset portfolio was worth one half of its stated value (and one asset, which the judge also held was significantly overvalued, was only worth 25% of its stated value) before agreeing to proceed with the full recourse loan."" The judge held that the New York AG (who campaigned on going after Trump) was not required to show either that the overstatement of particular assets was material to the lender or to the overall value of his assets, or that the lenders actually relied on the statements. On the other hand, the judge asserts that “the frauds found here leap off the page and shock the conscience” – his conscience, but not the banks’."" Remember: No one in these deals alleged fraud; the loans were paid off and everyone in the deal made money; Trump still had billions in assets backing his guaranty after writing down asset values that were misstated; and the bank assumed the value was half what he said anyway.""It shocks millions of Americans that a Democrat who ran for attorney general promising to go after a Republican president of the United States is allowed to use the power of the state to go after political opponents, and then take nearly half a billion dollars without proving any financial harm from the misstatements."
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 20, 2024 21:25:31 GMT
Steve Cortes @cortessteve Superb legal and financial analysis of the NY vs Trump civil case from esteemed attorney Richard Porter. None of the “victims” allege any fraud, private asset values are always subject to debate, and you can’t “save Democracy” by destroying it. Analysis link "Engoron glosses over the most salient fact of this case – there was no victim –"Judge Engoron "Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that defendants have made all required payments on time." " The judge held that Trump and his affiliates overstated the value of certain of his assets, and therefore suggests (without corroborating testimony in his 92-page opinion) that Deutsche would not have offered the full recourse loans but for the overstatement of these particular assets." "Deutsche Bank’s witnesses testified that the bank assumed the value of the assets and liabilities were “broadly accurate,” then assumed Trump’s aggregate asset portfolio was worth one half of its stated value (and one asset, which the judge also held was significantly overvalued, was only worth 25% of its stated value) before agreeing to proceed with the full recourse loan."" The judge held that the New York AG (who campaigned on going after Trump) was not required to show either that the overstatement of particular assets was material to the lender or to the overall value of his assets, or that the lenders actually relied on the statements. On the other hand, the judge asserts that “the frauds found here leap off the page and shock the conscience” – his conscience, but not the banks’."" Remember: No one in these deals alleged fraud; the loans were paid off and everyone in the deal made money; Trump still had billions in assets backing his guaranty after writing down asset values that were misstated; and the bank assumed the value was half what he said anyway.""It shocks millions of Americans that a Democrat who ran for attorney general promising to go after a Republican president of the United States is allowed to use the power of the state to go after political opponents, and then take nearly half a billion dollars without proving any financial harm from the misstatements." Again - Per NY state law there does not need to be a victim to determine fraud. So this "superb legal analysis " pointing out there was no victim is clearly questionable. However, as the judge pointed out in his ruling there were victims- taxpayers and other potential lenders that missed out on loans because money was given to Trump based on false valuations. The fines were not just numbers pulled out of thin air, it was interest and profit that Trump received from loans where he lied and falsely inflated the value of his assets. Trump received lower interest rates based on the inflated valuations. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/16/trump-verdict-judge-new-york-fraud-case In his verdict, Engoron said that Trump profited by paying lower interest rates when working with lenders such as Deutsche Bank who, because of the fudged financial statements, believed Trump had a higher net worth.
Michiel McCarty, an expert witness who testified at the trial for prosecutors, calculated that Trump saved $168m with lower interest rates because he inflated the value of his net worth. Engoron agreed to this amount, saying that “defendants’ fraud saved them” from having to pay a higher interest.
Another $126m of the fine came from calculating the “ill-gotten profits” Trump received when he sold the Old Post Office building in 2022. Trump was able to purchase the building, which he turned into a hotel, through the use of inflated financial statements.
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 20, 2024 22:27:35 GMT
Steve Cortes @cortessteve Superb legal and financial analysis of the NY vs Trump civil case from esteemed attorney Richard Porter. None of the “victims” allege any fraud, private asset values are always subject to debate, and you can’t “save Democracy” by destroying it. Analysis link "Engoron glosses over the most salient fact of this case – there was no victim –"Judge Engoron "Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that defendants have made all required payments on time." " The judge held that Trump and his affiliates overstated the value of certain of his assets, and therefore suggests (without corroborating testimony in his 92-page opinion) that Deutsche would not have offered the full recourse loans but for the overstatement of these particular assets." "Deutsche Bank’s witnesses testified that the bank assumed the value of the assets and liabilities were “broadly accurate,” then assumed Trump’s aggregate asset portfolio was worth one half of its stated value (and one asset, which the judge also held was significantly overvalued, was only worth 25% of its stated value) before agreeing to proceed with the full recourse loan."" The judge held that the New York AG (who campaigned on going after Trump) was not required to show either that the overstatement of particular assets was material to the lender or to the overall value of his assets, or that the lenders actually relied on the statements. On the other hand, the judge asserts that “the frauds found here leap off the page and shock the conscience” – his conscience, but not the banks’."" Remember: No one in these deals alleged fraud; the loans were paid off and everyone in the deal made money; Trump still had billions in assets backing his guaranty after writing down asset values that were misstated; and the bank assumed the value was half what he said anyway.""It shocks millions of Americans that a Democrat who ran for attorney general promising to go after a Republican president of the United States is allowed to use the power of the state to go after political opponents, and then take nearly half a billion dollars without proving any financial harm from the misstatements." Again - Per NY state law there does not need to be a victim to determine fraud. So this "superb legal analysis " pointing out there was no victim is clearly questionable. However, as the judge pointed out in his ruling there were victims- taxpayers and other potential lenders that missed out on loans because money was given to Trump based on false valuations. The fines were not just numbers pulled out of thin air, it was interest and profit that Trump received from loans where he lied and falsely inflated the value of his assets. Trump received lower interest rates based on the inflated valuations. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/16/trump-verdict-judge-new-york-fraud-case In his verdict, Engoron said that Trump profited by paying lower interest rates when working with lenders such as Deutsche Bank who, because of the fudged financial statements, believed Trump had a higher net worth.Another thing Deutsche Bank testified to was that the bank assumed Trump’s aggregate asset portfolio was worth one half of its stated value ( and one asset, which the judge also held was significantly overvalued, was only worth 25% of its stated value) BEFORE agreeing to proceed with the full recourse loan." There were times when Trump may have needed to be shut down, but there were also times when the judge would not allow trump to give relevant context. When you don’t allow relevent context, you can easily shape the narrative to your predetermined outcome. This case was decided by a single person. There was no jury. Judge Engoron said in 2015 "juries get it wrong a lot and I'm too old to deal with that. Not using a jury is a tool I can use. Sometimes it's hard to factor out my own emotions." Letitia James also campaigned on taking Trump down. Way too many people are rightly suspect of this "decision".
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 20, 2024 23:06:31 GMT
Still making excuses and defending Trump for fraud.
You can slam the judge and the prosecutors all you want, but Engoron is not some hack. He has a distinguished career on the bench, more than 20 years, he graduated from Columbia, worked as a law clerk for 11 years and worked as a litigator.
Trump's lawyers chose not to oppose the prosecution's request for a non-jury hearing.
You can post all of the opinions that you want, but the fact remains Trump was found guilty of fraud in a court of law. Nothing you post changes that fact.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 20, 2024 23:25:34 GMT
The Supreme Court just released its orders list for this week. The Trump immunity case was not on the list. This itself means little. The case is at the Supreme Court in an emergency stay posture, and so the court can act anytime. I suspect we will know whether the court will hear the case within the next 72 hours or so.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
|
Post by lizacreates on Feb 20, 2024 23:44:34 GMT
Some clarification is needed here because the implication is that the judge denied Trump a jury.
There are two types of claims: equitable and legal. This was an equitable case whereby the remedies/relief sought are disgorgement and injunctions. There is no Seventh Amendment right to a jury in equitable cases. Only in “suits at common law” that require “legal remedy” is there a constitutional right to a jury trial.
Notwithstanding, Trump could have submitted a request for a jury trial. However, he did not. I don’t know why he didn’t.
|
|
|
Post by dewryce on Feb 21, 2024 0:46:15 GMT
Some clarification is needed here because the implication is that the judge denied Trump a jury. There are two types of claims: equitable and legal. This was an equitable case whereby the remedies/relief sought are disgorgement and injunctions. There is no Seventh Amendment right to a jury in equitable cases. Only in “suits at common law” that require “legal remedy” is there a constitutional right to a jury trial. Notwithstanding, Trump could have submitted a request for a jury trial. However, he did not. I don’t know why he didn’t.Perhaps so he could blame the one judge and call them corrupt rather than an entire jury if/when he lost. I don’t think it matters though. At this point anyone who supports Trump will support him no matter what, and a jury declaring him guilty wouldn’t sway them.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 0:51:55 GMT
An interesting perspective on the hush money case. It doesn't answer the important question that lizacreates raised - what is the predicate crime? They do make an interesting point that I hadn't considered. If Stormy Daniels told her story before the election, would it have changed the results of the 2016 election? www.nytimes.com/2024/02/20/opinion/trump-alvin-bragg-manhattan.htmlG UEST ESSAY There Is Much More at Stake in Trump’s Manhattan Case Than Just Hush Money Feb. 20, 2024
With Justice Juan Merchan’s proclamation last week that jury selection in the Manhattan prosecution of Donald Trump will begin on March 25, it is time for a reappraisal of the case. The charges brought by Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney, have been overshadowed by the three other criminal prosecutions of Mr. Trump, but the 34 felony counts constitute a strong case of election interference and fraud in the place where Mr. Trump lived and conducted business for decades.
Mr. Bragg will face tough challenges ahead, fueled by lingering skepticism that critics have harbored about the strength of the evidence and whether Mr. Trump has been unfairly targeted.
But we think he can overcome those hurdles and, by seeking to secure a conviction, reinforce the principle that in Manhattan — as across the country — playing by the rules is critical to the integrity of both our businesses and our democracy.
To understand why this case matters, think about a precedent, an earlier episode of an election-related felony and its cover-up. That was the Watergate scandal, which hung over Richard Nixon’s re-election campaign in 1972. Voters did not have the information then to make an informed decision about Mr. Nixon, partly because the criminal investigation and trials of “the plumbers” had not concluded before the election and the majority of the evidence remained concealed. Because the investigation was unresolved, Mr. Nixon’s nefarious conduct worked; he was in the White House when the full revelations came out later, to devastating effect.
The salaciousness of the details in Mr. Trump’s case obscures what it is actually about: making covert payments to avoid losing an election and then further concealing it. Indeed, that is how Mr. Bragg has described the case, that it is “about conspiring to corrupt a presidential election and then lying in New York business records to cover it up.”
It is entirely possible that the alleged election interference might have altered the outcome of the 2016 contest, which was decided by just under 80,000 votes in three states. Coming, as it might have, on the heels of the “Access Hollywood” disgrace, the effort to keep the scandal from voters may have saved Mr. Trump’s political prospects.
The charges against Mr. Trump are also a deterrence against business fraud and a support of legitimate business in Manhattan. They target the essence of Mr. Trump’s identity and reputation, as a businessman, before his entrance into the political arena.
For decades, Mr. Trump lived and ran his businesses in New York City. We now know as a result of multiple New York court proceedings that fraud appeared to have been a regular part of his dealings. The Trump Organization and Allen Weisselberg, its chief financial officer, were both criminally convicted of fraud (before Justice Merchan) in 2022. In the New York attorney general’s civil fraud suit, Justice Arthur Engoron ruled last week that the former president is liable as a result of fraudulently manipulating his net worth and ordered him to pay a staggering $355 million penalty — over $400 million with interest.
Mr. Bragg’s prosecution is the next step in probing — and, however much possible, deterring — this pattern of conduct by Mr. Trump and his display of contempt for the rule of law that every other New York business and Manhattan executive has to follow.
To succeed, Mr. Bragg will need to overcome the first impressions of the case from its critics. In this view, it is nothing more than a years-old, stale case about hush money payments to a porn star on shaky legal ground. But since the indictment in April 2023, the legal foundations of the case have been revealed to be much stronger than the naysayers suggested. A particularly strong endorsement, for example, came from federal Judge Alvin Hellerstein, who rebuffed efforts from Mr. Trump’s lawyers to move the case to federal court.
In his opinion sending the case back to state court, Judge Hellerstein seemed to endorse Mr. Bragg’s theory of the case. He noted that the evidence against Mr. Trump appeared to support Mr. Bragg’s “allegations that the money paid to [Michael] Cohen was reimbursement for a hush money payment.”
For the trial itself, Mr. Bragg has that strong evidence and a favorable jury pool in Manhattan, but he will have to overcome two major challenges in order to prevail: one each for the jury and the judge.
First will be the challenge of how Mr. Bragg and his team present Michael Cohen, Mr. Trump’s former fixer, to the jury. Mr. Trump’s trial team will try to hammer Mr. Cohen as an admitted liar and convicted criminal who pleaded guilty to multiple federal crimes for the alleged election interference in New York. But Mr. Bragg and his own team have deep experience with putting on cooperating witnesses with complex pasts.
Mr. Cohen has not wavered in his account of the hush money payments, their election interference purpose and their cover-up. And perhaps most important, everything Mr. Cohen has said is corroborated by documentary evidence and other witnesses. Even after a tough cross-examination in the New York civil fraud case, Justice Engoron found that “Michael Cohen told the truth.” Prosecutors also have the benefit of learning from Mr. Cohen’s civil testimony and can focus on his consistency, corroboration and acceptance of responsibility.
Second, Mr. Bragg and his team will be confronted with the challenge of working with Justice Merchan to prevent Mr. Trump from acting out in front of the jury and thereby disrupting the case or introducing irrelevant information to try to prejudice the outcome. We all saw the spectacle that Mr. Trump created in the New York State civil fraud trial. But we also saw Mr. Trump reined in by federal Judge Lewis Kaplan in the E. Jean Carroll case, which, unlike the civil fraud one, featured a jury watching every move.
Justice Merchan is cut more from the cloth of Judge Kaplan. He is a widely respected and experienced jurist. Moreover, criminal trial rules and practice give him even more latitude than Judge Kaplan had in the E. Jean Carroll civil matter. With a jury in the box, Justice Merchan is unlikely to tolerate repeated outbursts. We got a taste of that at the hearing last week, when he repeatedly and summarily shut down frivolous objections from Mr. Trump’s counsel.
The seriousness of the prosecution can also be conveyed at sentencing. If Mr. Trump is convicted, Mr. Bragg should seek jail time. Each count of document falsification carries a term of up to four years in prison. Many individuals, including first-time offenders, are sentenced to imprisonment for this crime in New York.
Whether it comes to American business or constitutional democracy, individuals who flamboyantly and persistently flout the rules of a system must be deterred for that system to endure. That principle underlines the gravity of the forthcoming case in Manhattan and the cases elsewhere, against Mr. Trump.
Norman Eisen, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, was special counsel to the House Judiciary Committee for the first impeachment and trial of Donald Trump. Joshua Kolb is an attorney who served as a law clerk on the Senate Judiciary Committee. Barbara McQuade is a professor from practice at the University of Michigan Law School, a former U.S. attorney and the author of the forthcoming book “Attack From Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America.”
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 21, 2024 0:55:32 GMT
Still making excuses and defending Trump for fraud. Take Trump out of it and look at it logically... Your neighbor is accused of running over someone and leaving the scene and the person that you supposedly ran over says no, they were not even hit, but the judge says that your neighbor is guilty anyway. You are discussing how you think that your neighbor is not guilty. Do you think that means that you are defending hit and run? Because that's exactly the absurd logic that you are applying to me.
|
|