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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 0:55:48 GMT
Some clarification is needed here because the implication is that the judge denied Trump a jury. There are two types of claims: equitable and legal. This was an equitable case whereby the remedies/relief sought are disgorgement and injunctions. There is no Seventh Amendment right to a jury in equitable cases. Only in “suits at common law” that require “legal remedy” is there a constitutional right to a jury trial. Notwithstanding, Trump could have submitted a request for a jury trial. However, he did not. I don’t know why he didn’t.Perhaps so he could blame the one judge and call them corrupt rather than an entire jury if/when he lost. I don’t think it matters though. At this point anyone who supports Trump will support him no matter what, and a jury declaring him guilty wouldn’t sway them. That was my first thought, too. Given how he's targeted the judge and his staff, it seems entirely possible that Trump wanted a judge to criticize. Much easier to target, smear, criticize and complain about a single judge vs a jury of 12 people. Easier and more palatable to falsely persuade his supporters of an elite judge's bias or corruption. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 0:57:06 GMT
Still making excuses and defending Trump for fraud. Take Trump out of it and look at it logically... Your neighbor is accused of running over someone and leaving the scene and the person that you supposedly ran over says no, they were not even hit, but the judge says that your neighbor is guilty anyway. You are discussing how you think that your neighbor is not guilty. Do you think that means that you are defending hit and run? Because that's exactly the absurd logic that you are applying to me. No, I'm not going to debate you on obscure analogies. Trump was convicted and found guilty of fraud on a massive scale in a court of law. And you continue to defend him and make excuses for him. Enough said. End of story. |
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Post by morecowbell on Feb 21, 2024 0:59:09 GMT
Take Trump out of it and look at it logically... Your neighbor is accused of running over someone and leaving the scene and the person that you supposedly ran over says no, they were not even hit, but the judge says that your neighbor is guilty anyway. You are discussing how you think that your neighbor is not guilty. Do you think that means that you are defending hit and run? Because that's exactly the absurd logic that you are applying to me. No, I'm not going to debate you on obscure analogies. Trump was convicted and found guilty of fraud on a massive scale. End of story. I'm talking about your flawed logic that I'm defending fraud. I'm not. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 1:03:24 GMT
No, I'm not going to debate you on obscure analogies. Trump was convicted and found guilty of fraud on a massive scale. End of story. I'm talking about your flawed logic that I'm defending fraud. I'm not. A hypothetical situation about a hit and run is completely irrelevant. Your opinion on the logic of the verdict is irrelevant. The opinion of a guy on TV is irrelevant. A duly appointed judge found Trump guilty of fraud on a massive scale in a court of law. |
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Post by morecowbell on Feb 21, 2024 1:08:54 GMT
I'm talking about your flawed logic that I'm defending fraud. I'm not. A hypothetical situation about a hit and run is completely irrelevant. Your opinion on the logic of the verdict is irrelevant. The opinion of a guy on TV is irrelevant. A duly appointed judge found Trump guilty of fraud on a massive scale in a court of law. It's completely relevant to your flawed logic that I'm defending fraud. I'm not. |
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Feb 21, 2024 1:10:29 GMT
Some clarification is needed here because the implication is that the judge denied Trump a jury. There are two types of claims: equitable and legal. This was an equitable case whereby the remedies/relief sought are disgorgement and injunctions. There is no Seventh Amendment right to a jury in equitable cases. Only in “suits at common law” that require “legal remedy” is there a constitutional right to a jury trial. Notwithstanding, Trump could have submitted a request for a jury trial. However, he did not. I don’t know why he didn’t.Perhaps so he could blame the one judge and call them corrupt rather than an entire jury if/when he lost. I don’t think it matters though. At this point anyone who supports Trump will support him no matter what, and a jury declaring him guilty wouldn’t sway them. You’re probably right. And I’ve seen clips where MAGA fans were saying they don’t care if he’s found guilty in all of them; they’d still vote for him. If there was ever any uncertainty that this is a cult, that alone should dispel all doubts. |
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Feb 21, 2024 1:25:34 GMT
First will be the challenge of how Mr. Bragg and his team present Michael Cohen, Mr. Trump’s former fixer, to the jury. Mr. Trump’s trial team will try to hammer Mr. Cohen as an admitted liar and convicted criminal who pleaded guilty to multiple federal crimes for the alleged election interference in New York. But Mr. Bragg and his own team have deep experience with putting on cooperating witnesses with complex pasts.
Mr. Cohen has not wavered in his account of the hush money payments, their election interference purpose and their cover-up. And perhaps most important, everything Mr. Cohen has said is corroborated by documentary evidence and other witnesses. Even after a tough cross-examination in the New York civil fraud case, Justice Engoron found that “Michael Cohen told the truth.” Prosecutors also have the benefit of learning from Mr. Cohen’s civil testimony and can focus on his consistency, corroboration and acceptance of responsibility.
Yes. I read Mark Pomerantz’s book, “People vs Donald Trump” about the DANY investigations under Cy Vance. Pomerantz spent many hours talking to Cohen and he thought Cohen was credible. He didn’t come away with the impression that this was vendetta; rather, he thought this was part of Cohen’s desire to rehabilitate. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 1:26:48 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 1:29:26 GMT
Not surprising. He's calling it a perfect loan, just like his perfect phone call.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Feb 21, 2024 2:00:15 GMT
That’s probably why the self-styled Biz Wiz is hocking sneakers! He should go to Jared--he's got $2B from MBS.  |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 3:23:32 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 3:25:04 GMT
The more he talks about documents, the more it sounds like he's incriminating himself. I picture his lawyers listening to him and doing the Fauci faceplant
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 21, 2024 5:06:05 GMT
Oh WOW! Donald Trump owes $87K daily interest on historic fraud.By MOLLY CRANE-NEWMAN | mcranenewman@nydailynews.com | New York Daily News PUBLISHED: February 20, 2024 at 6:58 p.m. | UPDATED: February 20, 2024 at 9:51 p.m. When most New Yorkers wake up, they might splurge by spending a few bucks on coffee and a bagel. Every morning Donald Trump wakes up, he now owes another $87,500 in interest on the massive legal penalties he received last week. The pain is set to continue until he pays off the entirety of the nearly half a billion dollars in fines and interest in his Manhattan civil fraud case. The devastating judgment handed down by Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron on Friday against the former president and his longtime Trump Organization executives will increase by 9% annually until resolved. That comes to $87,500 per day, according to the state attorney general’s office — more than most New Yorkers make in a year. On an annual basis, the interest alone puts a $32 million dent in Trump’s pocket, according to calculations by The Associated Press. www.nydailynews.com/2024/02/20/donald-trump-owes-87k-daily-interest-on-historic-fraud-penalties/ |
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Post by morecowbell on Feb 21, 2024 5:33:13 GMT
Some clarification is needed here because the implication is that the judge denied Trump a jury. There are two types of claims: equitable and legal. This was an equitable case whereby the remedies/relief sought are disgorgement and injunctions. There is no Seventh Amendment right to a jury in equitable cases. Only in “suits at common law” that require “legal remedy” is there a constitutional right to a jury trial. Notwithstanding, Trump could have submitted a request for a jury trial. However, he did not. I don’t know why he didn’t. Judge Engoron said in 2015 "juries get it wrong a lot and I'm too old to deal with that. Not using a jury is a tool I can use. Sometimes it's hard to factor out my own emotions."
That seems pretty evident here, for so many reasons. Just one example, not allowing any relevant context from Trump. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 21, 2024 5:34:33 GMT
I wonder about where he gets the money too.... A legal analyst is concerned that the damages Donald Trump was hit with in the fraud trial only compounds his financial problems — and presents a major security threat. On Monday, Allison Gill of "Mueller, She Wrote" joined with co-host Dana Goldberg on "The Daily Beans" and called the fraud trial fine of $355 million a "doozy." "All I can think though, is that there's classified documents missing," Gill cautioned. "Humm, I know. Highest bidder," agreed Goldberg. "How is he going to get this money?" asked Gill. "I mean NRC [National Republican Committee] is broke, NRA [National Rifle Association] is broke, Trump's Save America PAC is bleeding cash from legal representation not just for him but his adult children, and Jared and Ivanka. So, I mean, I guess he can borrow it from Jared?" www.rawstory.com/trump-fines-penalties-classified-documents/ |
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Post by morecowbell on Feb 21, 2024 5:39:21 GMT
Perhaps so he could blame the one judge and call them corrupt rather than an entire jury if/when he lost. I don’t think it matters though. At this point anyone who supports Trump will support him no matter what, and a jury declaring him guilty wouldn’t sway them. You’re probably right. And I’ve seen clips where MAGA fans were saying they don’t care if he’s found guilty in all of them; they’d still vote for him. If there was ever any uncertainty that this is a cult, that alone should dispel all doubts. We've seen numerous people here say they'd vote for Biden in a coma or if he was DEAD. If there was ever any uncertainty that 👆 THIS is a cult, that alone should dispel all doubts. Disclaimer: this point is about cult status, not Trump v. Biden. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 21, 2024 12:59:48 GMT
Unbelievable!
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Feb 21, 2024 20:03:33 GMT
Okay. Seems like misleading information is still ongoing.
I don’t really know 100% the reason why Trump did not request a jury. If I were the defense, I would have.
I think Alina Habba just did not know the procedures. (Habba was the one arguing for Trump during pretrial. I don’t think she has solid trial experience because she’s really not well-versed on the rules and procedures, which was painfully obvious in the Carroll trial).
Anyway, you can submit a request for a jury trial, then the judge listens to arguments for or against and decides. Let’s say Engoron says no. That ruling is appealable. The problem is during pretrial when the judge said there won’t be a jury, Habba did not object. Not objecting is the key mistake because for an appeal, you have to do what’s called preserving the record. In other words, you need an objection to the ruling to be on the record. By not objecting, that means she waived the right of the defendant to request a jury trial. Well, if you waive something, you can’t appeal an adverse ruling on that issue because you already waived!
So, blaming the judge for this, notwithstanding his personal views on juries and his emotions, is baseless.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
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Post by jayfab on Feb 21, 2024 20:46:27 GMT
You’re probably right. And I’ve seen clips where MAGA fans were saying they don’t care if he’s found guilty in all of them; they’d still vote for him. If there was ever any uncertainty that this is a cult, that alone should dispel all doubts. We've seen numerous people here say they'd vote for Biden in a coma or if he was DEAD. If there was ever any uncertainty that 👆 THIS is a cult, that alone should dispel all doubts. Disclaimer: this point is about cult status, not Trump v. Biden. Haha, I can't speak for everyone, but I really don't think most will vote for a dead Biden because they bow down to him like he's their savior. No one I know wears Biden hats, clothes and fly his flag like he's some king they adore. I know I will vote for ANY dem on the ballot because I WANT THE FACIST CULT to LOSE. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 21, 2024 20:46:50 GMT
I remember all the chatter about Habba not checking a box on the forms...
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 21, 2024 20:52:01 GMT
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 21, 2024 21:42:15 GMT
We've seen numerous people here say they'd vote for Biden in a coma or if he was DEAD. If there was ever any uncertainty that 👆 THIS is a cult, that alone should dispel all doubts. Disclaimer: this point is about cult status, not Trump v. Biden. Haha, I can't speak for everyone, but I really don't think most will vote for a dead Biden because they bow down to him like he's their savior. No one I know wears Biden hats, clothes and fly his flag like he's some king they adore. I know I will vote for ANY dem on the ballot because I WANT THE FACIST CULT to LOSE. Exactly. I just can’t imagine wearing a hat or item of clothing with a politicians name in it or flags with anything political. I regular flag yes. It’s their right to do so but I just don’t get the total admiration and god like fawning over him to me that’s sacrilegious 🤦♀️ especially considering how ungodly he is. Flaunting his many wives and boasting about how wonderful he is 🤮 |
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,892
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Post by Just T on Feb 21, 2024 23:19:39 GMT
Haha, I can't speak for everyone, but I really don't think most will vote for a dead Biden because they bow down to him like he's their savior. No one I know wears Biden hats, clothes and fly his flag like he's some king they adore. I know I will vote for ANY dem on the ballot because I WANT THE FACIST CULT to LOSE. Exactly. I just can’t imagine wearing a hat or item of clothing with a politicians name in it or flags with anything political. I regular flag yes. It’s their right to do so but I just don’t get the total admiration and god like fawning over him to me that’s sacrilegious 🤦♀️ especially considering how ungodly he is. Flaunting his many wives and boasting about how wonderful he is 🤮 It's beyond ridiculous at this point. I can't believe that people call Biden supporters cultists. Around where I live, I have seen freaking CARS wrapped like Nascar cars with Trumps picture the flag, etc. Entire cars and trucks. I have never seen one of those for Biden. Or Obama. Or George Bush. Or any president ever. To my thinking, that is total cult behavior. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2024 23:24:33 GMT
We've seen numerous people here say they'd vote for Biden in a coma or if he was DEAD. If there was ever any uncertainty that 👆 THIS is a cult, that alone should dispel all doubts. Disclaimer: this point is about cult status, not Trump v. Biden. Haha, I can't speak for everyone, but I really don't think most will vote for a dead Biden because they bow down to him like he's their savior. No one I know wears Biden hats, clothes and fly his flag like he's some king they adore. I know I will vote for ANY dem on the ballot because I WANT THE FACIST CULT to LOSE. Yes to all of this. Also, there are so many reasons President Biden is not a cult leader. Trump, on the other hand demands complete loyalty from everyone. He threatens, takes revenge and retribution if supporters, his own party, staffers and cabinet members are not sufficiently loyal to him. 1. President Biden doesn't demand loyalty from supporters. Donald Trump recently threatened Nikki Haley supporters that they would be barred from the MAGA camp. www.nytimes.com/2024/01/25/us/politics/trump-haley-donors-maga-blacklist.htmlFormer President Donald J. Trump essentially threatened Nikki Haley’s donors with excommunication from his political movement on Wednesday night, declaring that he would refuse contributions from anyone who donated to her primary campaign.
He then added, using his insulting nickname for Ms. Haley: “Anybody that makes a ‘Contribution’ to Birdbrain, from this moment forth, will be permanently barred from the MAGA camp. We don’t want them, and will not accept them, because we Put America First, and ALWAYS WILL!”
2. President Biden does not demand politicians from his own party kiss his ring. He doesn't call them names or insult them if they disagree with him. He doesn't take revenge or retribution on politicians from his party if they disagree with him. He doesn't threaten to primary them or follow through on that threat. 3. President Biden doesn't insult former staffers, cabinet members etc after they leave. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 22, 2024 1:15:31 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 22, 2024 1:17:28 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 22, 2024 1:45:03 GMT
Given that he's declared bankruptcy 6 times, this seems like a good probability. Works as a delay tactic, too. www.dcreport.org/2024/02/19/trumps-legal-delay-tactics-will-lead-to-further-self-destruction/Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones did it two years ago. Rudolph Giuliani did it just before Christmas. Now there’s a very good chance that before March 12, Donald Trump will join them in filing personal bankruptcy.
Trump would do so for the same reason as Jones and Giuliani — to delay paying court-ordered awards for defamation.
Trump has never filed personal bankruptcy, as I will show below. Doing so now might seem at first blush to ruin his brand, his polished image as a multi-billionaire, a modern Midas who turns to gold all that he touches.
But spinning a bankruptcy filing to his advantage would be easy. Trump will tell his cultish believers that he is as rich as ever, but he was forced to seek refuge in Bankruptcy Court by the Marxist-Fascist-Corrupt-Deep State-Liberal-Radical cabal he blames for his legal woes.
Filing for personal bankruptcy stops the clock on both awards. That means he won’t need to deposit cash or get bonds to appeal the Carroll and New York State civil fraud awards. The automatic stay to these and other civil proceedings would benefit Trump by getting past what he sees as the finish line: the Nov. 5 presidential election.
In the end, a bankruptcy filing won’t save Trump from paying, according to Professor Gregory L. Germain, who teaches bankruptcy law at Syracuse University College of Law.
Germain, my law school colleague for many years, says that while Trump can achieve is delays, surely enough to get past Election Day.
That strategy worked for conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. Two years after his bankruptcy filing Jones has yet to pay any of the $1.5 billion jury award for defaming the parents and relatives of the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre. That more than two years have passed suggests Trump should have no trouble getting past the election through this delaying tactic.
Trump has managed to trick tens of millions of Americans into believing he is a business genius rather than a wealth-destroying con artist. People who believe he is worth billions will believe him when he says he only filed personal bankruptcy because they made him do it. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 22, 2024 1:54:24 GMT
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 22, 2024 6:11:43 GMT
Exactly. I just can’t imagine wearing a hat or item of clothing with a politicians name in it or flags with anything political. I regular flag yes. It’s their right to do so but I just don’t get the total admiration and god like fawning over him to me that’s sacrilegious 🤦♀️ especially considering how ungodly he is. Flaunting his many wives and boasting about how wonderful he is 🤮 It's beyond ridiculous at this point. I can't believe that people call Biden supporters cultists. Around where I live, I have seen freaking CARS wrapped like Nascar cars with Trumps picture the flag, etc. Entire cars and trucks. I have never seen one of those for Biden. Or Obama. Or George Bush. Or any president ever. To my thinking, that is total cult behavior. I agree never seen anything like this before. I haven’t seen car wraps and I hope I never do. |
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 22, 2024 6:17:19 GMT
Given that he's declared bankruptcy 6 times, this seems like a good probability. Works as a delay tactic, too. www.dcreport.org/2024/02/19/trumps-legal-delay-tactics-will-lead-to-further-self-destruction/Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones did it two years ago. Rudolph Giuliani did it just before Christmas. Now there’s a very good chance that before March 12, Donald Trump will join them in filing personal bankruptcy.
Trump would do so for the same reason as Jones and Giuliani — to delay paying court-ordered awards for defamation.
Trump has never filed personal bankruptcy, as I will show below. Doing so now might seem at first blush to ruin his brand, his polished image as a multi-billionaire, a modern Midas who turns to gold all that he touches.
But spinning a bankruptcy filing to his advantage would be easy. Trump will tell his cultish believers that he is as rich as ever, but he was forced to seek refuge in Bankruptcy Court by the Marxist-Fascist-Corrupt-Deep State-Liberal-Radical cabal he blames for his legal woes.
Filing for personal bankruptcy stops the clock on both awards. That means he won’t need to deposit cash or get bonds to appeal the Carroll and New York State civil fraud awards. The automatic stay to these and other civil proceedings would benefit Trump by getting past what he sees as the finish line: the Nov. 5 presidential election.
In the end, a bankruptcy filing won’t save Trump from paying, according to Professor Gregory L. Germain, who teaches bankruptcy law at Syracuse University College of Law.
Germain, my law school colleague for many years, says that while Trump can achieve is delays, surely enough to get past Election Day.
That strategy worked for conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. Two years after his bankruptcy filing Jones has yet to pay any of the $1.5 billion jury award for defaming the parents and relatives of the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre. That more than two years have passed suggests Trump should have no trouble getting past the election through this delaying tactic.
Trump has managed to trick tens of millions of Americans into believing he is a business genius rather than a wealth-destroying con artist. People who believe he is worth billions will believe him when he says he only filed personal bankruptcy because they made him do it.And they will say he is so smart and a good business man for taking advantage of it. They think he is a genius for paying so few taxes. |
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