jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,617
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Apr 11, 2024 22:29:57 GMT
Apparently she has me on ignore because she is ignoring the Washington Fact Check article. 😀 No, I think she just ignores facts in general that don't fit her narrative. She ignored facts that I posted, too. And she falsely claimed that Lucy and I said tax cuts are only going to help the rich. Neither of us actually said that. If she doesn't directly it from her orange god then it is a lie.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,617
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Apr 11, 2024 22:35:42 GMT
It has nothing to do with my sources. I've been a little busy lately and have not paid attention to all of the news. Except for the actual evidence they provided in the article. And yet aj2hall has provided you with expert economic analysis that proves otherwise. But let’s go with what the Trump-humper says instead, right? OMG the images in my head! I needed that laugh today.
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Post by aj2hall on Apr 11, 2024 23:01:25 GMT
1. Your article is ALSO from 2017. 2. "All I can tell you is that no one can make real detailed analysis of the plan yet, because it's not finished," White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said Sunday on CNN's State of the Union." Even your article admits that. "The Tax Policy Center analysts acknowledge having to make some assumptions as they did their review." 3. You're using NPR as your source for "facts". Even someone AT npr says they aren't reliable when covering things about Trump and his administration. From an editor at NPR: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him." I was going to just let your post go and not respond, because it's like talking to a brick wall. I will probably regret this, but I wanted to explain where I was coming from. I quoted an article from 2017 to show you the projected tax cuts. They were intentionally designed to skew towards the top 1 % and increase over time. I was trying to explain why your opinion from 2019 was different from every other more recent non partisan source that we have shown you. Even if I agree with you about NPR (I don't but thats another issue) and we exclude that article, we have shown you a number of other articles from non partisan sources showing how the Trump tax cuts benefit the top 1% disproportionately. In comparison, you quoted 1 opinion piece based on 2017 data. Yes, these are older articles. I'm trying to show you that the one opinion you quoted was the exception, not the rule. Even back then, analysis showed that the tax cuts disproportionately benefitted the top 1% www.brookings.edu/articles/the-middle-class-needs-a-tax-cut-trump-didnt-give-it-to-them/The new tax law—known as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA)—will exacerbate this trend. The benefits of the law tilt toward the well-off both now and in the future, according to the distributional analysis of the Tax Policy Center. By 2027, benefits of the tax law flow entirely to the rich. (The Joint Committee on Taxation finds similar results using a different measure.)
December 18, 2017 In general, higher income households receive larger average tax cuts as a percentage of after-tax income, with the largest cuts as a share of income going to taxpayers in the 95thto 99th percentiles of the income distribution. On average,in 2027 taxes would change little for lower-and middle-income groups and decrease for higher-income groups
This one is a more recent analysis and shows again how the top 1-5% benefitted disproportionately from the tax cuts. www.americanprogress.org/article/biden-tax-proposals-would-correct-inequities-created-by-trump-tax-cuts-and-raise-additional-revenues/REPORT APR 14, 2023 The TCJA made sweeping changes to the nation’s tax laws—including some for low- and middle-income households—that provided the largest tax cuts to the wealthy.9 The law included four major changes expiring at the end of 2025 that were overwhelmingly tilted to high-income Americans: Cutting the top tax rate: Creating a new pass-through loophole: The TCJA allows owners of partnerships, limited liability companies, and other so-called pass-through businesses to escape tax on 20 percent of their income Dramatically reducing the alternative minimum tax (AMT): The AMT was designed to ensure that higher-income people who claim certain tax breaks pay at least some minimal amount of personal income tax. Lowering taxes on inherited wealth:
Taken as a whole, the TCJA slashed the taxes of the wealthiest 0.1 percent of Americans by an average of $193,380 in its first year of implementation—more than 200 times the average $930 reduction for households in the middle fifth of the income distribution.
Making the 2017 changes permanent would also compound the damage done to the fairness of the tax code by extending large tax breaks for the wealthy and exacerbating inequities that enable them to shelter large shares of their income from taxation. The top 0.1 percent of households would receive an average tax cut more than 175 times the size of that received by middle-income families, on average—$175,710 as compared with $990, respectively, in 2026—and the poorest fifth of households would receive, on average, just $100. Moreover, high-income households would continue to benefit from the already permanent corporate tax cuts discussed above.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 12, 2024 13:38:14 GMT
1. Your article is ALSO from 2017. 2. "All I can tell you is that no one can make real detailed analysis of the plan yet, because it's not finished," White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said Sunday on CNN's State of the Union." Even your article admits that. "The Tax Policy Center analysts acknowledge having to make some assumptions as they did their review." 3. You're using NPR as your source for "facts". Even someone AT npr says they aren't reliable when covering things about Trump and his administration. From an editor at NPR: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him." From the nonpartisan CBPP, written last month: Uh, no they aren't. "The group is widely regarded as being aligned with progressive and liberal positions. David Callahan of Inside Philanthropy once wrote, “No think tank commands more respect among liberal policy wonks and Capitol Hill Democrats than the D.C-based Center for Budget and Policy Priorities.”4 The organization receives financial support from progressive foundations and labor unions. CBPP bills itself as nonpartisan, but a look at the center’s stance on issues indicates a left-of-center view. In 2011, the Daily Signal argued the group skewered statistics to benefit liberal talking points. While a chart from CBPP claimed the next decade’s deficits were the result of two recent tax cuts, the recession, bailouts, wars, and the economic stimulus, Daily Signal argued that CBPP’s “methodology fails statistics 101.”5 Megan McArdle, then of The Atlantic, needled CBPP as well, calling the charts a “dog-whistle where we pick out the programs we don’t like and show that without them, things wouldn’t be so bad!” The publication noted CBPP labeled a large section of the deficit as “Bush-Era Tax Cuts” when, in reality, the effect of those cuts would be much smaller.6 CBPP was a major contributor to and supporter of President Barack Obama’s healthcare plan.7 “As the principal organization focused both on extending coverage to the uninsured and finding ways to pay for health reform, the Center helped shape many of the laws’ provisions,” the website Guidestar reported.8 CBPP opposed the George W. Bush administration’s tax cuts in 2001, but later worked to make sure more low-income families could take advantage of the expanded child-care tax credit.9 CBPP also opposed President Bill Clinton’s efforts to enact bipartisan welfare reform, predicting 1 million Americans would become impoverished.10 The predictions largely did not come to pass, and poverty rates fell after the law’s enactment.11 CBPP has tangled with right-leaning American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), arguing that ALEC’s annual “Rich States, Poor States” report on state-by-state economic freedom pushes policies that benefit businesses and investors at the expense of middle- and lower-income earners. ALEC countered that the economic opportunity offered by low-tax and limited-government policies better enables those earners to find good jobs or open their own businesses. “In numerous studies, the consensus of academic experts shows that economic opportunity is best advanced by a competitive tax policy and an efficient government that provides core public services — not a high-tax, ever-growing government,” ALEC wrote in its criticism of CBPP.12"
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 12, 2024 13:47:05 GMT
3. You're using NPR as your source for "facts". Even someone AT npr says they aren't reliable when covering things about Trump and his administration. From an editor at NPR: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him." I happen to have read that opinion piece about NPR as well. It was published in a right-wing forum started by Bari Weiss. www.thefp.com/p/npr-editor-how-npr-lost-americas-trustNews media can falter, no matter their best intentions. Individuals can have differing opinions and views of situations. But when a supposedly experienced, competent, and honest media figure makes a statement like this: ”But when the Mueller report found no credible evidence of collusion, NPR’s coverage was notably sparse.” … all bets are off. A reading of the Mueller Report disproves the claim that he found no credible evidence of collusion. This opinion piece is full of OPINIONS, not all of which are supported by the FACTS. It’s not the first time this has happened with your sources. These are the words from the editor at NPR, himself: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him."
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 12, 2024 13:51:10 GMT
Bwahhaahha I guess you just read headlines. Your news sources and your Democrats lied to you then, and they're lying to you now. Especially when you do exactly as they expect of you and only read the headlines. Um, going by personal experience. No need to read headlines. The statement you're doubting is: "Trump’s 2017 tax cut reduced income tax rates for the vast majority of Americans, including top earners and most lower-income workers." That is directly quoted from ajhall's NBC News article that she posted. So you can laugh and doubt it all you want.
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Post by lucyg on Apr 12, 2024 15:05:52 GMT
I happen to have read that opinion piece about NPR as well. It was published in a right-wing forum started by Bari Weiss. www.thefp.com/p/npr-editor-how-npr-lost-americas-trustNews media can falter, no matter their best intentions. Individuals can have differing opinions and views of situations. But when a supposedly experienced, competent, and honest media figure makes a statement like this: ”But when the Mueller report found no credible evidence of collusion, NPR’s coverage was notably sparse.” … all bets are off. A reading of the Mueller Report disproves the claim that he found no credible evidence of collusion. This opinion piece is full of OPINIONS, not all of which are supported by the FACTS. It’s not the first time this has happened with your sources. These are the words from the editor at NPR, himself: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him." I heard you the first time. I can still see that he is saying things that are easily disproven.
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Post by lucyg on Apr 12, 2024 15:07:58 GMT
Um, going by personal experience. No need to read headlines. The statement you're doubting is: "Trump’s 2017 tax cut reduced income tax rates for the vast majority of Americans, including top earners and most lower-income workers." That is directly quoted from ajhall's NBC News article that she posted. So you can laugh and doubt it all you want. Small reductions in tax rates for middle/working class citizens that were designed to sunset in a few years, versus massive, permanent tax savings for corporations. That sounds fair.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 12, 2024 15:36:42 GMT
These are the words from the editor at NPR, himself: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him." I heard you the first time. I wasn't sure, since it was a direct quote from the NPR editor, himself and in response you felt the need to discredit someone else. The NPR editor or Bari Weiss?
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,883
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Apr 12, 2024 15:44:24 GMT
The statement you're doubting is: "Trump’s 2017 tax cut reduced income tax rates for the vast majority of Americans, including top earners and most lower-income workers." That is directly quoted from ajhall's NBC News article that she posted. So you can laugh and doubt it all you want. Small reductions in tax rates for middle/working class citizens that were designed to sunset in a few years, versus massive, permanent tax savings for corporations. That sounds fair. I don't need any articles glorifying the Trump tax cuts or denying them. I am solidly middle class, probably considered lower middle class based on my income, and I remember my first paycheck after the "beautiful" tax cuts. My paycheck for 2 weeks had a whopping $7 extra on it. Woo hoo. I thought to myself, "Whatever shall I DO with this huge $14 a month windfall I received?!"
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2024 15:51:15 GMT
From the nonpartisan CBPP, written last month: Uh, no they aren't. "The group is widely regarded as being aligned with progressive and liberal positions. David Callahan of Inside Philanthropy once wrote, “No think tank commands more respect among liberal policy wonks and Capitol Hill Democrats than the D.C-based Center for Budget and Policy Priorities.”4 The organization receives financial support from progressive foundations and labor unions. CBPP bills itself as nonpartisan, but a look at the center’s stance on issues indicates a left-of-center view. In 2011, the Daily Signal argued the group skewered statistics to benefit liberal talking points. While a chart from CBPP claimed the next decade’s deficits were the result of two recent tax cuts, the recession, bailouts, wars, and the economic stimulus, Daily Signal argued that CBPP’s “methodology fails statistics 101.”5 Megan McArdle, then of The Atlantic, needled CBPP as well, calling the charts a “dog-whistle where we pick out the programs we don’t like and show that without them, things wouldn’t be so bad!” The publication noted CBPP labeled a large section of the deficit as “Bush-Era Tax Cuts” when, in reality, the effect of those cuts would be much smaller.6 CBPP was a major contributor to and supporter of President Barack Obama’s healthcare plan.7 “As the principal organization focused both on extending coverage to the uninsured and finding ways to pay for health reform, the Center helped shape many of the laws’ provisions,” the website Guidestar reported.8 CBPP opposed the George W. Bush administration’s tax cuts in 2001, but later worked to make sure more low-income families could take advantage of the expanded child-care tax credit.9 CBPP also opposed President Bill Clinton’s efforts to enact bipartisan welfare reform, predicting 1 million Americans would become impoverished.10 The predictions largely did not come to pass, and poverty rates fell after the law’s enactment.11 CBPP has tangled with right-leaning American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), arguing that ALEC’s annual “Rich States, Poor States” report on state-by-state economic freedom pushes policies that benefit businesses and investors at the expense of middle- and lower-income earners. ALEC countered that the economic opportunity offered by low-tax and limited-government policies better enables those earners to find good jobs or open their own businesses. “In numerous studies, the consensus of academic experts shows that economic opportunity is best advanced by a competitive tax policy and an efficient government that provides core public services — not a high-tax, ever-growing government,” ALEC wrote in its criticism of CBPP.12" Ok. Can you provide credible evidence to counter any of what they say? The article I posted contains links to all their source data. You must have access to some other data that disproves theirs, right? (ALEC, btw, is funded primarily by wealthy corporations looking out for their shareholders, and is still pushing ludicrous trickle down policies that have been failing for 40 years. I don’t know why anyone would listen to them.) Your source there makes the mistake of presuming that anyone who disagrees with far-right policy is a radical leftist communist. By any normal standards, the policies preferred by CBPP are moderately liberal and typical of other advanced societies. Being criticized by far-right, anti-democracy groups like ALEC and the Daily Signal (Heritage Foundation owned) hardly discredits them. The bit about poverty rates falling after the Clinton welfare reform is a nice bit of cherry-picking, too. Poverty rates initially fell, but when the economy took a downturn in 2008, they increased again to rates higher than before. Oh wait, there’s more - Influence Watch was started by and is funded by the CRC, a right-wing group started by a Heritage Foundation member. Sure, that’s a reliable source. 🙄
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Post by lucyg on Apr 12, 2024 16:15:03 GMT
I heard you the first time. I wasn't sure, since it was a direct quote from the NPR editor, himself and in response you felt the need to discredit someone else. The NPR editor or Bari Weiss? Not only am I merely repeating what I’ve already said about the NPR editor (whose actual name is Uri Berliner), but he is a man. Bari Weiss is a woman. I said he, therefore you may infer that I was referring to him. I said nothing to discredit Bari Weiss, unless you find the term “right wing” to be discrediting, that is. I think I’m about done going in circles with you for the moment, thanks.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 12, 2024 16:25:54 GMT
I wasn't sure, since it was a direct quote from the NPR editor, himself and in response you felt the need to discredit someone else. The NPR editor or Bari Weiss? Not only am I merely repeating what I’ve already said about the NPR editor (whose actual name is Uri Berliner), but he is a man. Bari Weiss is a woman. I said he, therefore you may infer that I was referring to him. I said nothing to discredit Bari Weiss, unless you find the term “right wing” to be discrediting, that is. When it's used here way too often, as a means to discredit, what else am I supposed to think?
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 12, 2024 16:31:10 GMT
1. Your article is ALSO from 2017. 2. "All I can tell you is that no one can make real detailed analysis of the plan yet, because it's not finished," White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said Sunday on CNN's State of the Union." Even your article admits that. "The Tax Policy Center analysts acknowledge having to make some assumptions as they did their review." 3. You're using NPR as your source for "facts". Even someone AT npr says they aren't reliable when covering things about Trump and his administration. From an editor at NPR: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him." I was going to just let your post go and not respond, because it's like talking to a brick wall. I will probably regret this, but I wanted to explain where I was coming from. Even if I agree with you about NPR (I don't but thats another issue) Even someone AT NPR says they aren't reliable when covering things about Trump. From an editor at NPR: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him." It does not rely on your agreeing with ME or not. That is what he said.
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2024 16:34:18 GMT
I was going to just let your post go and not respond, because it's like talking to a brick wall. I will probably regret this, but I wanted to explain where I was coming from. Even if I agree with you about NPR (I don't but thats another issue) Even someone AT NPR says they aren't reliable when covering things about Trump. From an editor at NPR: "But after a while we started covering Trump in a way that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him." It does not rely on your agreeing with ME or not. That is what he said. What’s the context?
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 12, 2024 16:38:32 GMT
Uh, no they aren't. "The group is widely regarded as being aligned with progressive and liberal positions. David Callahan of Inside Philanthropy once wrote, “No think tank commands more respect among liberal policy wonks and Capitol Hill Democrats than the D.C-based Center for Budget and Policy Priorities.”4 The organization receives financial support from progressive foundations and labor unions. CBPP bills itself as nonpartisan, but a look at the center’s stance on issues indicates a left-of-center view. In 2011, the Daily Signal argued the group skewered statistics to benefit liberal talking points. While a chart from CBPP claimed the next decade’s deficits were the result of two recent tax cuts, the recession, bailouts, wars, and the economic stimulus, Daily Signal argued that CBPP’s “methodology fails statistics 101.”5 Megan McArdle, then of The Atlantic, needled CBPP as well, calling the charts a “dog-whistle where we pick out the programs we don’t like and show that without them, things wouldn’t be so bad!” The publication noted CBPP labeled a large section of the deficit as “Bush-Era Tax Cuts” when, in reality, the effect of those cuts would be much smaller.6 CBPP was a major contributor to and supporter of President Barack Obama’s healthcare plan.7 “As the principal organization focused both on extending coverage to the uninsured and finding ways to pay for health reform, the Center helped shape many of the laws’ provisions,” the website Guidestar reported.8 CBPP opposed the George W. Bush administration’s tax cuts in 2001, but later worked to make sure more low-income families could take advantage of the expanded child-care tax credit.9 CBPP also opposed President Bill Clinton’s efforts to enact bipartisan welfare reform, predicting 1 million Americans would become impoverished.10 The predictions largely did not come to pass, and poverty rates fell after the law’s enactment.11 CBPP has tangled with right-leaning American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), arguing that ALEC’s annual “Rich States, Poor States” report on state-by-state economic freedom pushes policies that benefit businesses and investors at the expense of middle- and lower-income earners. ALEC countered that the economic opportunity offered by low-tax and limited-government policies better enables those earners to find good jobs or open their own businesses. “In numerous studies, the consensus of academic experts shows that economic opportunity is best advanced by a competitive tax policy and an efficient government that provides core public services — not a high-tax, ever-growing government,” ALEC wrote in its criticism of CBPP.12" Ok. Can you provide credible evidence to counter any of what they say? The article I posted contains links to all their source data. You must have access to some other data that disproves theirs, right? (ALEC, btw, is funded primarily by wealthy corporations looking out for their shareholders, and is still pushing ludicrous trickle down policies that have been failing for 40 years. I don’t know why anyone would listen to them.) Your source there makes the mistake of presuming that anyone who disagrees with far-right policy is a radical leftist communist. By any normal standards, the policies preferred by CBPP are moderately liberal and typical of other advanced societies. Being criticized by far-right, anti-democracy groups like ALEC and the Daily Signal (Heritage Foundation owned) hardly discredits them. The bit about poverty rates falling after the Clinton welfare reform is a nice bit of cherry-picking, too. Poverty rates initially fell, but when the economy took a downturn in 2008, they increased again to rates higher than before. Oh wait, there’s more - Influence Watch was started by and is funded by the CRC, a right-wing group started by a Heritage Foundation member. Sure, that’s a reliable source. 🙄 Why would I bother? You don’t acknowledge ANYTHING that doesn't support your narrative. Among other things, I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that the facts on the marketing and advertising of the drag show absolutely, did not, to anyone with a functioning brain, support your claim that "the drag show expose was fake news" after all. Even after I acknowledged your point and conceded to you and said that reporter SHOULD be sued into oblivion. But then, after a while the facts didn't add up to the claims being made. As I remember, even the other reporter trying to take her down for her "expose" didn't support some of your claims. Your response to that was to pile-on and demonize.
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Post by Merge on Apr 12, 2024 16:45:12 GMT
Ok. Can you provide credible evidence to counter any of what they say? The article I posted contains links to all their source data. You must have access to some other data that disproves theirs, right? (ALEC, btw, is funded primarily by wealthy corporations looking out for their shareholders, and is still pushing ludicrous trickle down policies that have been failing for 40 years. I don’t know why anyone would listen to them.) Your source there makes the mistake of presuming that anyone who disagrees with far-right policy is a radical leftist communist. By any normal standards, the policies preferred by CBPP are moderately liberal and typical of other advanced societies. Being criticized by far-right, anti-democracy groups like ALEC and the Daily Signal (Heritage Foundation owned) hardly discredits them. The bit about poverty rates falling after the Clinton welfare reform is a nice bit of cherry-picking, too. Poverty rates initially fell, but when the economy took a downturn in 2008, they increased again to rates higher than before. Oh wait, there’s more - Influence Watch was started by and is funded by the CRC, a right-wing group started by a Heritage Foundation member. Sure, that’s a reliable source. 🙄 Why would I bother? You don’t acknowledge ANYTHING that doesn't support your narrative. Among other things, I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge that the facts on the marketing and advertising of the drag show absolutely, did not, to anyone with a functioning brain, support your claim that "the drag show expose was fake news" after all. Even after I acknowledged your point and conceded to you and said that reporter SHOULD be sued into oblivion. But then, after a while the facts didn't add up to the claims being made. As I remember, even the other reporter trying to take her down for her "expose" didn't support some of your claims. Your response to that was to pile-on and demonize. So I’ll take that bit of nonsense to mean that no, you do not have credible evidence to disprove anything the CBPP said.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,617
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Apr 12, 2024 21:28:29 GMT
Small reductions in tax rates for middle/working class citizens that were designed to sunset in a few years, versus massive, permanent tax savings for corporations. That sounds fair. I don't need any articles glorifying the Trump tax cuts or denying them. I am solidly middle class, probably considered lower middle class based on my income, and I remember my first paycheck after the "beautiful" tax cuts. My paycheck for 2 weeks had a whopping $7 extra on it. Woo hoo. I thought to myself, "Whatever shall I DO with this huge $14 a month windfall I received?!" Yup, same for me.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 12, 2024 21:38:26 GMT
From the Free Press…. link“ I’ve Been at NPR for 25 Years. Here’s How We Lost America’s Trust.” Uri Berliner, a veteran at the public radio institution, says the network lost its way when it started telling listeners how to think. By Uri Berliner April 9, 2024 You know the stereotype of the NPR listener: an EV-driving, Wordle-playing, tote bag–carrying coastal elite. It doesn’t precisely describe me, but it’s not far off. I’m Sarah Lawrence–educated, was raised by a lesbian peace activist mother, I drive a Subaru, and Spotify says my listening habits are most similar to people in Berkeley. I fit the NPR mold. I’ll cop to that. So when I got a job here 25 years ago, I never looked back. As a senior editor on the business desk where news is always breaking, we’ve covered upheavals in the workplace, supermarket prices, social media, and AI. It’s true NPR has always had a liberal bent, but during most of my tenure here, an open-minded, curious culture prevailed. We were nerdy, but not knee-jerk, activist, or scolding. In recent years, however, that has changed. Today, those who listen to NPR or read its coverage online find something different: the distilled worldview of a very small segment of the U.S. population. If you are conservative, you will read this and say, duh, it’s always been this way. But it hasn’t. For decades, since its founding in 1970, a wide swath of America tuned in to NPR for reliable journalism and gorgeous audio pieces with birds singing in the Amazon. Millions came to us for conversations that exposed us to voices around the country and the world radically different from our own—engaging precisely because they were unguarded and unpredictable. No image generated more pride within NPR than the farmer listening to Morning Edition from his or her tractor at sunrise. Back in 2011, although NPR’s audience tilted a bit to the left, it still bore a resemblance to America at large. Twenty-six percent of listeners described themselves as conservative, 23 percent as middle of the road, and 37 percent as liberal. By 2023, the picture was completely different: only 11 percent described themselves as very or somewhat conservative, 21 percent as middle of the road, and 67 percent of listeners said they were very or somewhat liberal. We weren’t just losing conservatives; we were also losing moderates and traditional liberals. An open-minded spirit no longer exists within NPR, and now, predictably, we don’t have an audience that reflects America. That wouldn’t be a problem for an openly polemical news outlet serving a niche audience. But for NPR, which purports to consider all things, it’s devastating both for its journalism and its business model. Like many unfortunate things, the rise of advocacy took off with Donald Trump. As in many newsrooms, his election in 2016 was greeted at NPR with a mixture of disbelief, anger, and despair. (Just to note, I eagerly voted against Trump twice but felt we were obliged to cover him fairly.) But what began as tough, straightforward coverage of a belligerent, truth-impaired president veered toward efforts to damage or topple Trump’s presidency. Persistent rumors that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia over the election became the catnip that drove reporting. At NPR, we hitched our wagon to Trump’s most visible antagonist, Representative Adam Schiff. Schiff, who was the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, became NPR’s guiding hand, its ever-present muse. By my count, NPR hosts interviewed Schiff 25 times about Trump and Russia. During many of those conversations, Schiff alluded to purported evidence of collusion. The Schiff talking points became the drumbeat of NPR news reports. But when the Mueller report found no credible evidence of collusion, NPR’s coverage was notably sparse. Russiagate quietly faded from our programming. It is one thing to swing and miss on a major story. Unfortunately, it happens. You follow the wrong leads, you get misled by sources you trusted, you’re emotionally invested in a narrative, and bits of circumstantial evidence never add up. It’s bad to blow a big story. What’s worse is to pretend it never happened, to move on with no mea culpas, no self-reflection. Especially when you expect high standards of transparency from public figures and institutions, but don’t practice those standards yourself. That’s what shatters trust and engenders cynicism about the media. Russiagate was not NPR’s only miscue. In October 2020, the New York Post published the explosive report about the laptop Hunter Biden abandoned at a Delaware computer shop containing emails about his sordid business dealings. With the election only weeks away, NPR turned a blind eye. Here’s how NPR’s managing editor for news at the time explained the thinking: “We don’t want to waste our time on stories that are not really stories, and we don’t want to waste the listeners’ and readers’ time on stories that are just pure distractions.” But it wasn’t a pure distraction, or a product of Russian disinformation, as dozens of former and current intelligence officials suggested. The laptop did belong to Hunter Biden. Its contents revealed his connection to the corrupt world of multimillion-dollar influence peddling and its possible implications for his father. The laptop was newsworthy. But the timeless journalistic instinct of following a hot story lead was being squelched. During a meeting with colleagues, I listened as one of NPR’s best and most fair-minded journalists said it was good we weren’t following the laptop story because it could help Trump. When the essential facts of the Post’s reporting were confirmed and the emails verified independently about a year and a half later, we could have fessed up to our misjudgment. But, like Russia collusion, we didn’t make the hard choice of transparency. Politics also intruded into NPR’s Covid coverage, most notably in reporting on the origin of the pandemic. One of the most dismal aspects of Covid journalism is how quickly it defaulted to ideological story lines. For example, there was Team Natural Origin—supporting the hypothesis that the virus came from a wild animal market in Wuhan, China. And on the other side, Team Lab Leak, leaning into the idea that the virus escaped from a Wuhan lab. The lab leak theory came in for rough treatment almost immediately, dismissed as racist or a right-wing conspiracy theory. Anthony Fauci and former NIH head Francis Collins, representing the public health establishment, were its most notable critics. And that was enough for NPR. We became fervent members of Team Natural Origin, even declaring that the lab leak had been debunked by scientists. But that wasn’t the case. When word first broke of a mysterious virus in Wuhan, a number of leading virologists immediately suspected it could have leaked from a lab there conducting experiments on bat coronaviruses. This was in January 2020, during calmer moments before a global pandemic had been declared, and before fear spread and politics intruded. Reporting on a possible lab leak soon became radioactive. Fauci and Collins apparently encouraged the March publication of an influential scientific paper known as “The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2.” Its authors wrote they didn’t believe “any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.” But the lab leak hypothesis wouldn’t die. And understandably so. In private, even some of the scientists who penned the article dismissing it sounded a different tune. One of the authors, Andrew Rambaut, an evolutionary biologist from Edinburgh University, wrote to his colleagues, “I literally swivel day by day thinking it is a lab escape or natural.” Over the course of the pandemic, a number of investigative journalists made compelling, if not conclusive, cases for the lab leak. But at NPR, we weren’t about to swivel or even tiptoe away from the insistence with which we backed the natural origin story. We didn’t budge when the Energy Department—the federal agency with the most expertise about laboratories and biological research—concluded, albeit with low confidence, that a lab leak was the most likely explanation for the emergence of the virus. Instead, we introduced our coverage of that development on February 28, 2023, by asserting confidently that “the scientific evidence overwhelmingly points to a natural origin for the virus.” When a colleague on our science desk was asked why they were so dismissive of the lab leak theory, the response was odd. The colleague compared it to the Bush administration’s unfounded argument that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, apparently meaning we won’t get fooled again. But these two events were not even remotely related. Again, politics were blotting out the curiosity and independence that ought to have been driving our work.” This thing goes on gorever. If you want to read the entire opinion piece the link is at the top.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 12, 2024 21:48:36 GMT
The OTHER side of the story that @moreciwbell tends to ignore. From NPR. link“ NPR defends its journalism after senior editor says it has lost the public's trust”“NPR's top news executive defended its journalism and its commitment to reflecting a diverse array of views on Tuesday after a senior NPR editor wrote a broad critique of how the network has covered some of the most important stories of the age. "An open-minded spirit no longer exists within NPR, and now, predictably, we don't have an audience that reflects America," writes Uri Berliner. A strategic emphasis on diversity and inclusion on the basis of race, ethnicity and sexual orientation, promoted by NPR's former CEO, John Lansing, has fed "the absence of viewpoint diversity," Berliner writes. afternoon that she and the news leadership team strongly reject Berliner's assessment. "We're proud to stand behind the exceptional work that our desks and shows do to cover a wide range of challenging stories," she wrote. "We believe that inclusion — among our staff, with our sourcing, and in our overall coverage — is critical to telling the nuanced stories of this country and our world." She added, "None of our work is above scrutiny or critique. We must have vigorous discussions in the newsroom about how we serve the public as a whole." A spokesperson for NPR said Chapin, who also serves as the network's chief content officer, would have no further comment. Praised by NPR's critics Berliner is a senior editor on NPR's Business Desk. (Disclosure: I, too, am part of the Business Desk, and Berliner has edited many of my past stories. He did not see any version of this article or participate in its preparation before it was posted publicly.) Berliner's essay, titled "I've Been at NPR for 25 years. Here's How We Lost America's Trust," was published by The Free Press, a website that has welcomed journalists who have concluded that mainstream news outlets have become reflexively liberal. Berliner writes that as a Subaru-driving, Sarah Lawrence College graduate who "was raised by a lesbian peace activist mother," he fits the mold of a loyal NPR fan. Yet Berliner says NPR's news coverage has fallen short on some of the most controversial stories of recent years, from the question of whether former President Donald Trump colluded with Russia in the 2016 election, to the origins of the virus that causes COVID-19, to the significance and provenance of emails leaked from a laptop owned by Hunter Biden weeks before the 2020 election. In addition, he blasted NPR's coverage of the Israel-Hamas conflict. On each of these stories, Berliner asserts, NPR has suffered from groupthink due to too little diversity of viewpoints in the newsroom. The essay ricocheted Tuesday around conservative media, with some labeling Berliner a whistleblower. Others picked it up on social media, including Elon Musk, who has lambasted NPR for leaving his social media site, X. (Musk emailed another NPR reporter a link to Berliner's article with a gibe that the reporter was a "quisling" — a World War II reference to someone who collaborates with the enemy.) When asked for further comment late Tuesday, Berliner declined, saying the essay spoke for itself. The arguments he raises — and counters — have percolated across U.S. newsrooms in recent years. The #MeToo sexual harassment scandals of 2016 and 2017 forced newsrooms to listen to and heed more junior colleagues. The social justice movement prompted by the killing of George Floyd in 2020 inspired a reckoning in many places. Newsroom leaders often appeared to stand on shaky ground. Leaders at many newsrooms, including top editors at The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times, lost their jobs. Legendary Washington Post Executive Editor Martin Baron wrote in his memoir that he feared his bonds with the staff were "frayed beyond repair," especially over the degree of self-expression his journalists expected to exert on social media, before he decided to step down in early 2021. Since then, Baron and others — including leaders of some of these newsrooms — have suggested that the pendulum has swung too far. New York Times publisher A.G. Sulzberger warned last year against journalists embracing a stance of what he calls "one-side-ism": "where journalists are demonstrating that they're on the side of the righteous." "I really think that that can create blind spots and echo chambers," he said. Internal arguments at The Times over the strength of its reporting on accusations that Hamas engaged in sexual assaults as part of a strategy for its Oct. 7 attack on Israel erupted publicly. The paper conducted an investigation to determine the source of a leak over a planned episode of the paper's podcast The Daily on the subject, which months later has not been released. The newsroom guild accused the paper of "targeted interrogation" of journalists of Middle Eastern descent. Heated pushback in NPR's newsroom Given Berliner's account of private conversations, several NPR journalists question whether they can now trust him with unguarded assessments about stories in real time. Others express frustration that he had not sought out comment in advance of publication. Berliner acknowledged to me that for this story, he did not seek NPR's approval to publish the piece, nor did he give the network advance notice. Some of Berliner's NPR colleagues are responding heatedly. Fernando Alfonso, a senior supervising editor for digital news, wrote that he wholeheartedly rejected Berliner's critique of the coverage of the Israel-Hamas conflict, for which NPR's journalists, like their peers, periodically put themselves at risk. Alfonso also took issue with Berliner's concern over the focus on diversity at NPR. "As a person of color who has often worked in newsrooms with little to no people who look like me, the efforts NPR has made to diversify its workforce and its sources are unique and appropriate given the news industry's long-standing lack of diversity," Alfonso says. "These efforts should be celebrated and not denigrated as Uri has done." After this story was first published, Berliner contested Alfonso's characterization, saying his criticism of NPR is about the lack of diversity of viewpoints, not its diversity itself. "I never criticized NPR's priority of achieving a more diverse workforce in terms of race, ethnicity and sexual orientation. I have not 'denigrated' NPR's newsroom diversity goals," Berliner said. "That's wrong." Questions of diversity Under former CEO John Lansing, NPR made increasing diversity, both of its staff and its audience, its "North Star" mission. Berliner says in the essay that NPR failed to consider broader diversity of viewpoint, noting, "In D.C., where NPR is headquartered and many of us live, I found 87 registered Democrats working in editorial positions and zero Republicans." Berliner cited audience estimates that suggested a concurrent falloff in listening by Republicans. (The number of people listening to NPR broadcasts and terrestrial radio broadly has declined since the start of the pandemic.) Former NPR vice president for news and ombudsman Jeffrey Dvorkin tweeted, "I know Uri. He's not wrong." Others questioned Berliner's logic. "This probably gets causality somewhat backward," tweeted Semafor Washington editor Jordan Weissmann. "I'd guess that a lot of NPR listeners who voted for [Mitt] Romney have changed how they identify politically." Similarly, Nieman Lab founder Joshua Benton suggested the rise of Trump alienated many NPR-appreciating Republicans from the GOP. In recent years, NPR has greatly enhanced the percentage of people of color in its workforce and its executive ranks. Four out of 10 staffers are people of color; nearly half of NPR's leadership team identifies as Black, Asian or Latino. "The philosophy is: Do you want to serve all of America and make sure it sounds like all of America, or not?" Lansing, who stepped down last month, says in response to Berliner's piece. "I'd welcome the argument against that." "On radio, we were really lagging in our representation of an audience that makes us look like what America looks like today," Lansing says. The U.S. looks and sounds a lot different than it did in 1971, when NPR's first show was broadcast, Lansing says. A network spokesperson says new NPR CEO Katherine Maher supports Chapin and her response to Berliner's critique. The spokesperson says that Maher "believes that it's a healthy thing for a public service newsroom to engage in rigorous consideration of the needs of our audiences, including where we serve our mission well and where we can serve it better." Disclosure: This story was reported and written by NPR Media Correspondent David Folkenflik and edited by Deputy Business Editor Emily Kopp and Managing Editor Gerry Holmes. Under NPR's protocol for reporting on itself, no NPR corporate official or news executive reviewed this story before it was posted publicly.”
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Post by lucyg on Apr 12, 2024 22:14:49 GMT
Everyone should please note, that Uri Berliner piece did not appear in what we might think is “the Free Press,” i.e., the Detroit Free Press, an established mainstream newspaper. www.thefp.com, where this opinion piece appeared, is a right-wing news and opinion site.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 12, 2024 23:51:14 GMT
The OTHER side of the story that @moreciwbell tends to ignore. Are you unable to simply offer a differing viewpoint without resorting to personal digs? It's supposed to be a discussion. I was unaware that it was expected of me to provide all sides to a discussion and just conduct the conversation here, by myself.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 13, 2024 1:11:50 GMT
The OTHER side of the story that @moreciwbell tends to ignore. Are you unable to simply offer a differing viewpoint without resorting to personal digs? It's supposed to be a discussion. I was unaware that it was expected of me to provide all sides to a discussion and just conduct the conversation here, by myself. Stating a fact is not a “personal dig”. You took what this guy said as an actual fact when it was an opinion. His opinion. He is not the editor in chief but one of the editors that works at NPR. And with your lack of curiosity you did not bother to get the rest of the story because it suited your purpose not to. And that was to discredit NPR as a news agency. And if you are not going to check both sides of a story don’t get pissy when someone else does.
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Post by morecowbell on Apr 13, 2024 2:06:50 GMT
Are you unable to simply offer a differing viewpoint without resorting to personal digs? It's supposed to be a discussion. I was unaware that it was expected of me to provide all sides to a discussion and just conduct the conversation here, by myself. Stating a fact is not a “personal dig”. That is NOT a fact, it is an opinion clearly used as a personal dig. No, I absolutely did not. I never said otherwise. And there you go again. And then wonder why I don't always respond to you. I presented a news story about something very interesting and YOU got pissy that I did. I simply presented what the guy said, because it backed up what I had previously said. And you didn't like that anyone would say something that you disagree with, or the fact that he said it and it was brought here. You're now actually doing number 1 on crimsoncat's list. I specifically said: "It's supposed to be a discussion. I was unaware that it was expected of me to provide all sides to a discussion and just conduct the conversation here, all by myself." and "When you hear only one side of anything it sounds convincing. The beauty of conversation is a back and forth that lets the truth/best ideas rise to the top. Not by sheer overwhelming aggression and piles ons, but a genuine back and forth, devoid of personal attacks." and "All of us are better off if we're around different perspectives. The only way we're going to get to the truth of an issue is by understanding all sides of an argument. And all of the facts." The fact that I said all of that, debunks your narrative of "if you are not going to check both sides of a story don’t get pissy when someone else does."
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Post by Merge on Apr 13, 2024 12:34:33 GMT
A good analysis of why there can be no real conversation with conservatives. As long as even the formerly reasonable voices among them are denying the dangers of Trumpism in favor of making “the Left” the enemy, no conversation is possible. We do not accept the same reality. thomaszimmer.substack.com/p/anti-anti-trump-conservatives-are
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Post by lucyg on Apr 13, 2024 22:23:28 GMT
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Post by Merge on Apr 14, 2024 1:16:19 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 14, 2024 22:40:39 GMT
And for sure, Robert E Lee did NOT contribute to the success of the United States!!
History IS important!!
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Post by Merge on Apr 15, 2024 14:38:07 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Apr 17, 2024 20:16:14 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2024/04/17/uri-berliner-npr-free-press-bari-weiss/NPR editor Uri Berliner resigns after accusing network of bias The public-radio network is being targeted by conservative activists over Berliner’s essay, which many staffers say is misleading and inaccurate By Elahe Izadi An NPR editor resigned Wednesday morning, eight days after publishing a lengthy essay accusing the network of journalistic malpractice for conforming to a politically liberal worldview at the expense of fairness and accuracy . Senior business editor Uri Berliner’s resignation came after a week of blowback to his comments, published online April 9 in the Free Press, that prompted criticism of NPR’s new chief executive and has left the newsroom in turmoil.
Berliner submitted his resignation letter one day after he disclosed that the network had temporarily suspended him for not getting approval for doing work for other publications. NPR policy requires receiving written permission from supervisors “for all outside freelance and journalistic work," according to the employee handbook.
Conservative activist Christopher Rufo — who rose to fame for targeting “critical race theory,” and whose scrutiny of Harvard president Claudine Gay preceded her resignation — set his sights this week on NPR’s new CEO, Katherine Maher, surfacing old social-media posts she wrote before she joined the news organization. In one 2020 tweet, she referred to Trump as a “deranged racist.” Others posts show her wearing a Biden hat, or wistfully daydreaming about hanging out with Kamala Harris. Rufo has called for Maher’s resignation.
In a statement, an NPR spokesperson described the outcry over Maher’s old posts as “a bad faith attack that follows an established playbook, as online actors with explicit agendas work to discredit independent news organizations. ... Spending time on these accusations is intended to detract from NPR’s mission of informing the American public and providing local information in communities around the country is more important than ever.”
Last week, Maher indirectly referenced Berliner’s essay in a note to staff that NPR also published online. “Asking a question about whether we’re living up to our mission should always be fair game: after all, journalism is nothing if not hard questions,” she wrote. “Questioning whether our people are serving our mission with integrity, based on little more than the recognition of their identity, is profoundly disrespectful, hurtful, and demeaning.”
Many NPR staff members — including prominent on-air personalities — took issue with Berliner’s essay, calling it an unfair depiction that lacked context or journalistic rigor, and didn’t seek comment from NPR for his many claims.
“Morning Edition” host Steve Inskeep, writing on his Substack on Tuesday, fact-checked or contextualized several of the arguments Berliner made. For instance: Berliner wrote that he once asked “why we keep using that word that many Hispanics hate — Latinx.” Inskeep said he searched 90 days of NPR’s content and found “Latinx” was used nine times — “usually by a guest” — compared to the nearly 400 times “Latina” and “Latino” were used. “This article needed a better editor,” Inskeep wrote. “I don’t know who, if anyone, edited Uri’s story, but they let him publish an article that discredited itself. ... A careful read of the article shows many sweeping statements for which the writer is unable to offer evidence.”
“Morning Edition” host Leila Fadel told The Post: “Many feel this was a bad faith effort to undermine and endanger our reporters around the country and the world, rather than make us a stronger and more powerful news organization. "He wrote what I think was a factually inaccurate take on our work that was filled with omissions to back his arguments.”
“Weekend Edition” host Ayesha Rascoe told The Post that no individual or news organization is “above reproach,” but one should not “be able to tear down an entire organization’s work without any sort of response or context provided or pushback.” There are many legitimate critiques to make of NPR’s coverage, she added, “but the way this has been done — it’s to invalidate all the work NPR does.”
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