|
|
Post by onelasttime on Feb 12, 2024 17:05:18 GMT
This was the question in a poll on another thread “Do you think Biden has significant mental decline?”
Unfortunately the pea who set up the poll did not give an option to actually answer the question by including “no”.
The pea changed the question from “ do you think” to “if you think”.
Clearly this pea believes President Biden has “significant mental decline “ and does not want anyone to disagree with her belief.
Because I’m in a crappy mood this morning after my team lost last night I decided to do a poll asking her original question.
|
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Feb 12, 2024 17:15:18 GMT
I think he has a normal amount of mental decline associated with age, and he also has to overcome a speech issue.
The peas would have had a field day with me continually forgetting the word tambourine this morning, and finally giving up and calling it a shaky thing. I’m 51.
My 54 year old husband has always been confused about our wedding anniversary date.
People forget stuff.
|
|
ellen
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,806 
|
Post by ellen on Feb 12, 2024 18:18:56 GMT
At age 56, I mix up the names of all sorts of things. I am 50/50 on calling my kids by the correct name. Doing a daily crossword puzzle for a couple of years has really highlighted how often I can’t come up with the word for something basic right off the bat. I am completely functional. Joe Biden is smarter in his sleep than Donald Trump is wide awake.
|
|
|
|
Post by papersilly on Feb 12, 2024 18:31:36 GMT
the job of the presidency is stressful and high paced. it seems like it has hyper-aged every person who has held the position because of the stresses of the job. we've all seen the before and after photos. even to a "youngster" like Obama.
i think going into it as an older-than-average candidate makes that aging seem even more prominent. i am not surprised Biden seems tired or stressed. he's had to deal with COVID, the economy, foreign wars, etc. that's a lot. but do i think he has SIGNIFICANT cognitive issues? no. is he aging? yes. does he flub? yes. is he still fit for the job? i think yes. do i think his opponent has far worse cognitive issues or do i question his fitness for the job? well.....
|
|
|
|
Post by karenk on Feb 12, 2024 19:03:24 GMT
Well, I see it this way. Any of the presidents do not act alone. There is a cast of thousands of advisors, etc who help the president in all of his actions and decisions. We have seen many of Biden advisors came from the Obama era. Trump’s will be reruns from his previous administration or there may be new ones who are even worse. I’ll take Biden any time.
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by lizacreates on Feb 12, 2024 19:11:38 GMT
Significant? No. A level typical of someone his age? Yes. But what matter to me are his character and the decisions he makes.
I’m in my 70s. If you put me now in a highly stressful job and constantly in front of a camera or large groups of people, chances are steep I would be flubbing something constantly.
You know, one of the things I found particularly galling in Robert Hur’s report is bringing up Beau’s death and how Biden couldn’t remember when he died. As many know, Beau died of cancer and his death was something Biden grieved tremendously and probably still grieves to this day. When my father died many years ago, I was gutted. If you ask me at this moment what year he died, I’d have to look up his death certificate to be precise. And this is someone I dearly loved. It doesn’t mean I’ve gone gaga. It doesn’t mean I have dementia. It just means I’m old.
Now, I know this is not within the scope of the topic, but I feel compelled to write this. I really feel that Biden should step aside and not run anymore. I posted some time ago that if I were Jill, I would encourage my husband to quit. Not because I believe Joe can no longer do the job effectively. And it’s not because I wouldn’t like Harris to take over should anything happen to him. I’m perfectly fine with her. It’s because at Joe’s age, the immense stress of the office can lead to very serious and debilitating health problems.
I also feel that the younger generations are justified in their desire to have someone in the highest office be representative of their group and their priorities. If I were much younger, I probably would feel the same way, if I’m to be honest.
I think Joe did the very best he could given the constraints of Congress and the relentless attacks against him, and he accomplished more than I probably give him credit for. I just think it’s part of wisdom to accept there’s a time when a leadership role should be handed over to someone younger.
|
|
The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 3,018
|
Post by The Great Carpezio on Feb 12, 2024 19:19:48 GMT
I struggle with this. I think it is "sorta" significant (normal for his age), but he still has a lot more mental acuity than many much younger, and he certainly has more than Trump who isn't all that intelligently curious or mentally healthy in the first place.
Due to his age, his speech impediment and I think, possibly, pain/physical issues, he walks and talks slower and less articulately than he did. He does stumble more with accessing information, but I think the media (not just right-wing), loves to run with this and makes it a bit hyperbolic.
They both slur words. They both say the wrong words often. They both ramble at times.
I find it silly to focus only on Biden's decline by the right.
|
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 12, 2024 19:24:26 GMT
This was the question in a poll on another thread “Do you think Biden has significant mental decline?” Unfortunately the pea who set up the poll did not give an option to actually answer the question by including “no”. The pea changed the question from “ do you think” to “if you think”. Clearly this pea believes President Biden has “significant mental decline “ and does not want anyone to disagree with her belief. Because I’m in a crappy mood this morning after my team lost last night I decided to do a poll asking her original question. To be clear, I created a thread where everyone was welcome to disagree and not a single personal attack from me for disagreeing, its absolutely CLEAR that I don't have any issue with disagreement with what I think. The same can not be said for you and your like minded friends. There are dozens of personal attacks coming from the other direction. So, it looks like you may be projecting when you say "Clearly this pea... does not want anyone to disagree with her belief." |
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Feb 12, 2024 20:38:12 GMT
Significant? No. A level typical of someone his age? Yes. But what matter to me are his character and the decisions he makes. I’m in my 70s. If you put me now in a highly stressful job and constantly in front of a camera or large groups of people, chances are steep I would be flubbing something constantly. You know, one of the things I found particularly galling in Robert Hur’s report is bringing up Beau’s death and how Biden couldn’t remember when he died. As many know, Beau died of cancer and his death was something Biden grieved tremendously and probably still grieves to this day. When my father died many years ago, I was gutted. If you ask me at this moment what year he died, I’d have to look up his death certificate to be precise. And this is someone I dearly loved. It doesn’t mean I’ve gone gaga. It doesn’t mean I have dementia. It just means I’m old. Now, I know this is not within the scope of the topic, but I feel compelled to write this. I really feel that Biden should step aside and not run anymore. I posted some time ago that if I were Jill, I would encourage my husband to quit. Not because I believe Joe can no longer do the job effectively. And it’s not because I wouldn’t like Harris to take over should anything happen to him. I’m perfectly fine with her. It’s because at Joe’s age, the immense stress of the office can lead to very serious and debilitating health problems.
I also feel that the younger generations are justified in their desire to have someone in the highest office be representative of their group and their priorities. If I were much younger, I probably would feel the same way, if I’m to be honest.
I think Joe did the very best he could given the constraints of Congress and the relentless attacks against him, and he accomplished more than I probably give him credit for. I just think it’s part of wisdom to accept there’s a time when a leadership role should be handed over to someone younger.I think at this point in time not only is the United States at a crossroad but so is the world outside the US. And it would be awfully naive if those of us in the US didn’t “get” that what happens outside the US has an affect in the US either directly or indirectly. While I don’t necessarily disagree with what you said abou President Biden, I think we need someone with his experience and knowledge and the experience VP Harris is getting during what one could say were perilous times. My question, if you, or anyone, believes both the US and the world are at crossroads, what potential younger Democrat has the experience to guide this country through the minefield that is the world we currently live in? I really like Pete Buttigieg and I can see him as president. But as much as I like him I would not want to see him as president in 2024. I want someone with the experience and knowledge President Biden has. |
|
|
|
Post by stampnscrap1128 on Feb 12, 2024 20:45:12 GMT
Joe Biden is smarter in his sleep than Donald Trump is wide awake. Amen!!! |
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 12, 2024 20:46:39 GMT
Significant? No. A level typical of someone his age? Yes. But what matter to me are his character and the decisions he makes. I’m in my 70s. If you put me now in a highly stressful job and constantly in front of a camera or large groups of people, chances are steep I would be flubbing something constantly. You know, one of the things I found particularly galling in Robert Hur’s report is bringing up Beau’s death and how Biden couldn’t remember when he died. As many know, Beau died of cancer and his death was something Biden grieved tremendously and probably still grieves to this day. When my father died many years ago, I was gutted. If you ask me at this moment what year he died, I’d have to look up his death certificate to be precise. And this is someone I dearly loved. It doesn’t mean I’ve gone gaga. It doesn’t mean I have dementia. It just means I’m old. Now, I know this is not within the scope of the topic, but I feel compelled to write this. I really feel that Biden should step aside and not run anymore. I posted some time ago that if I were Jill, I would encourage my husband to quit. Not because I believe Joe can no longer do the job effectively. And it’s not because I wouldn’t like Harris to take over should anything happen to him. I’m perfectly fine with her. It’s because at Joe’s age, the immense stress of the office can lead to very serious and debilitating health problems.
I also feel that the younger generations are justified in their desire to have someone in the highest office be representative of their group and their priorities. If I were much younger, I probably would feel the same way, if I’m to be honest.
I think Joe did the very best he could given the constraints of Congress and the relentless attacks against him, and he accomplished more than I probably give him credit for. I just think it’s part of wisdom to accept there’s a time when a leadership role should be handed over to someone younger.I think at this point in time not only is the United States at a crossroad but so is the world outside the US. And it would be awfully naive if those of us in the US didn’t “get” that what happens outside the US has an affect in the US either directly or indirectly. While I don’t necessarily disagree with what you said abou President Biden, I think we need someone with his experience and knowledge and the experience VP Harris is getting during what one could say were perilous times. My question, if you, or anyone, believes both the US and the world are at crossroads, what potential younger Democrat has the experience to guide this country through the minefield that is the world we currently live in? I really like Pete Buttigieg and I can see him as president. But as much as I like him I would not want to see him as president in 2024. I want someone with the experience and knowledge President Biden has. My main concern right now is that Trump does not become President again. I worry that Biden will lose this time around because of his support for Israel. I think he is trying to put pressure on Israel but Netanyahu is not being a good ally and will take the US down with him when people decide they aren't voting for Biden because of what Israel is doing in Gaza. If that means that someone else run instead of Biden, that may be for the best. I am just not sure who that is. Bernie Sanders is the only one I have vocally been hearing standing up and saying no aid to Israel (on his YouTube channel) but he is also old. |
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by lizacreates on Feb 12, 2024 21:26:27 GMT
Significant? No. A level typical of someone his age? Yes. But what matter to me are his character and the decisions he makes. I’m in my 70s. If you put me now in a highly stressful job and constantly in front of a camera or large groups of people, chances are steep I would be flubbing something constantly. You know, one of the things I found particularly galling in Robert Hur’s report is bringing up Beau’s death and how Biden couldn’t remember when he died. As many know, Beau died of cancer and his death was something Biden grieved tremendously and probably still grieves to this day. When my father died many years ago, I was gutted. If you ask me at this moment what year he died, I’d have to look up his death certificate to be precise. And this is someone I dearly loved. It doesn’t mean I’ve gone gaga. It doesn’t mean I have dementia. It just means I’m old. Now, I know this is not within the scope of the topic, but I feel compelled to write this. I really feel that Biden should step aside and not run anymore. I posted some time ago that if I were Jill, I would encourage my husband to quit. Not because I believe Joe can no longer do the job effectively. And it’s not because I wouldn’t like Harris to take over should anything happen to him. I’m perfectly fine with her. It’s because at Joe’s age, the immense stress of the office can lead to very serious and debilitating health problems.
I also feel that the younger generations are justified in their desire to have someone in the highest office be representative of their group and their priorities. If I were much younger, I probably would feel the same way, if I’m to be honest.
I think Joe did the very best he could given the constraints of Congress and the relentless attacks against him, and he accomplished more than I probably give him credit for. I just think it’s part of wisdom to accept there’s a time when a leadership role should be handed over to someone younger.I think at this point in time not only is the United States at a crossroad but so is the world outside the US. And it would be awfully naive if those of us in the US didn’t “get” that what happens outside the US has an affect in the US either directly or indirectly. While I don’t necessarily disagree with what you said abou President Biden, I think we need someone with his experience and knowledge and the experience VP Harris is getting during what one could say were perilous times. My question, if you, or anyone, believes both the US and the world are at crossroads, what potential younger Democrat has the experience to guide this country through the minefield that is the world we currently live in? I really like Pete Buttigieg and I can see him as president. But as much as I like him I would not want to see him as president in 2024. I want someone with the experience and knowledge President Biden has. Oh, I'm not going to argue against the value of Joe’s immense experience. It’s extremely valuable. It’s most likely his very long career in both the Senate and the vice-presidency that has informed him and enabled him to accomplish what he has so far. I can’t recall a time in modern history when there wasn’t any peril or conflict—there’s always something happening either in the US or the wider world that has effects at home or on other countries. We’ve had presidents who had very little experience who were able to manage domestic challenges and global conflicts. Obama easily comes to mind—when he took office, our economy was shattered and we had two wars ongoing, Iraq and Afghanistan. Add to that Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, Yemen and Libya. The president isn’t alone in strategizing and decision-making. We have an immense infrastructure that exists for the sole purpose of helping the president navigate the perils and plan and implement solutions to ensure national interest. IMO, the greatest threat to the US at present isn’t even China or Russia. It’s Trump. On our very own soil. |
|
twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,117
|
Post by twinsmomfla99 on Feb 12, 2024 21:38:23 GMT
Significant? No. A level typical of someone his age? Yes. But what matter to me are his character and the decisions he makes. I’m in my 70s. If you put me now in a highly stressful job and constantly in front of a camera or large groups of people, chances are steep I would be flubbing something constantly. You know, one of the things I found particularly galling in Robert Hur’s report is bringing up Beau’s death and how Biden couldn’t remember when he died. As many know, Beau died of cancer and his death was something Biden grieved tremendously and probably still grieves to this day. When my father died many years ago, I was gutted. If you ask me at this moment what year he died, I’d have to look up his death certificate to be precise. And this is someone I dearly loved. It doesn’t mean I’ve gone gaga. It doesn’t mean I have dementia. It just means I’m old. This. I’m almost 62, and I have to do the math to figure out when my dad died. I know my twin daughters were 5 because we were living in Richmond and they hadn’t started school yet. They were born in 1999, so I know the year was 2004. It was one of two dates in December close together, and both dates have other significant meaning for me, but I have to think long and hard about which day it was. Even when I think I have it right, I sometimes have to go to my scrapbook with his funeral card to confirm it. Not knowing the exact date of a loved one’s death is not evidence of dementia, nor does it mean that you didn’t care enough about them. For me, it means that I prefer to dwell on happy thoughts about his life than the unpleasant memories surrounding his death. I have no issues remembering his birthday or wedding anniversary, but his date of death? Not really that important to me.🤷♂️ |
|
|
|
Post by 950nancy on Feb 12, 2024 21:48:12 GMT
Numbers are my thing. I remember dates, exits, and times. Now names will mess me up a lot. With technology, we don't have to remember passwords, calendar events, and so many other things. Is Biden the best candidate? Probably not, but I would vote for him 1,000 times to Keep America Alive.
The Republican presidential front-runner said Russia should be able to do “whatever the hell they want” to NATO members who don’t meet their defense spending targets. per the AP
So it doesn't really matter that Biden is slowing down because he will have great people surround him for the next 4 years.
|
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 12, 2024 22:43:08 GMT
Thought this opinion in the NYT on memory was interesting www.nytimes.com/2024/02/12/opinion/neuroscientist-on-biden-age-memory.htmlAs an expert on memory, I can assure you that everyone forgets. In fact, most of the details of our lives — the people we meet, the things we do and the places we go — will inevitably be reduced to memories that capture only a small fraction of those experiences.
It is normal to be more forgetful as you get older. Broadly speaking, memory functions begin to decline in our 30s and continue to fade into old age. However, age in and of itself doesn’t indicate the presence of memory deficits that would affect an individual’s ability to perform in a demanding leadership role. And an apparent memory lapse may or may not be consequential depending on the reasons it occurred.
There is forgetting and there is Forgetting. If you’re over the age of 40, you’ve most likely experienced the frustration of trying to grasp hold of that slippery word hovering on the tip of your tongue. Colloquially, this might be described as ‘forgetting,’ but most memory scientists would call this “retrieval failure,” meaning that the memory is there, but we just can’t pull it up when we need it. On the other hand, Forgetting (with a capital F) is when a memory is seemingly lost or gone altogether. Inattentively conflating the names of the leaders of two countries would fall in the first category, whereas being unable to remember that you had ever met the president of Egypt would fall into the latter.
Many of the special counsel’s observations about Mr. Biden’s memory seem to fall in the category of forgetting, meaning that they are more indicative of a problem with finding the right information from memory than actual Forgetting. Calling up the date that an event occurred, like the last year of Mr. Biden’s vice presidency or the year of his son’s death, is a complex measure of memory. Remembering that an event took place is different than being able to put a date on when it happened, the latter of which is more challenging with increased age. The president very likely has many memories of both periods of his life, even though he could not immediately pull up the date in the stressful (and more immediately pressing) context of the Oct. 7 attack on Israel.
Other “memory” issues highlighted in the media are not so much cases of forgetting as they are of difficulties in the articulation of facts and knowledge. For instance, in July 2023, Mr. Biden mistakenly stated in a speech that “we have over 100 people dead,” when he should have said, “over one million.” He has struggled with a stutter since childhood, and research suggests that managing a stutter demands prefrontal resources that would normally enable people to find the right word or at least quickly correct errors after the fact.
The fact is that there is a huge degree of variability in cognitive aging. Age is, on average, associated with decreased memory, but studies that follow up the same person over several years have shown that, although some older adults show precipitous declines over time, other “super-agers” remain as sharp as ever.
rather than focusing on candidates’ ages per se, we should consider whether they have the capabilities to do the job. Public perception of a person’s cognitive state is often determined by superficial factors, such as physical presence, confidence, and verbal fluency, but these aren’t necessarily relevant to one’s capacity to make consequential decisions about the fate of this country. Memory is surely relevant, but other characteristics, such as knowledge of the relevant facts and emotion regulation — both of which are relatively preserved and might even improve with age — are likely to be of equal or greater importance.
Charan Ranganath is a professor of psychology and neuroscience and director of the Dynamic Memory Lab at the University of California at Davis and the author of Why We Remember: Unlocking Memory’s Power to Hold On to What Matters. |
|
peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,940
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
|
Post by peabay on Feb 12, 2024 22:50:54 GMT
I'm 59 and I have ADHD. If someone asks me one of my 4 daughters' birthdates I have to start with my oldest and run through all of their birthdays to get to the right one.
I have brain farts right and left. Words I don't mean pop out because my brain gets ahead of my mouth.
Do I think he's old? Yes. He's an old man. Do I think he's too old? Maybe - and it's a stressful job. But I would vote for him over Trump any day. Trump frightens me. Every day of his Presidency I woke up scared of what he had tweeted from the crapper in the middle of the night. He destabilized the world. I feel like the ship has been righted and I can't even imagine that there are people who want to take us back where we were.
|
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Feb 12, 2024 22:57:45 GMT
lizacreates onelasttimeI agree with both of you. But my #1 priority is making sure Trump doesn’t win. If Biden is the one most likely to be able to beat Trump, I am all in on Biden. And aj2hall, thanks for that opinion piece. I am more outraged than I can say about a freakin’ lawyer taking it upon himself to diagnose a medical condition in a sitting President he doesn’t happen to like. grrrrr
|
|
|
|
Post by gar on Feb 12, 2024 23:11:03 GMT
Trump frightens me. Every day of his Presidency I woke up scared of what he had tweeted from the crapper in the middle of the night. He destabilized the world. I feel like the ship has been righted and I can't even imagine that there are people who want to take us back where we were. He frightens me too - and I imagine many other non-Americans who’s worlds would be destabilised again but who can only sit and watch and wait 😞 |
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 12, 2024 23:11:12 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/12/garland-hur-partisanship/Special counsel Robert K. Hur had a single task: determine if President Biden illegally retained sensitive documents after his vice presidency. The answer should not have taken nearly 13 months or a more than 300-page report. Hur also should have avoided trashing “the fundamental ethos of a prosecutor to avoid gratuitous smears,” as former White House ethics czar Norm Eisen told me.
But it was Hur’s gratuitous smear about Biden’s age and memory — most egregiously, his far-fetched allegation that Biden could not recall the date of his son Beau’s death — that transformed a snide report into a political screed. Speculating about how a jury might have perceived the president years after the incidents took place was entirely irrelevant because the lack of evidence meant there would be no case.
Former prosecutors were almost uniformly outraged. Jeffrey Toobin remarked, “It was outrageous that Hur put in some of that stuff in this report. That had no place in it.” He added, “There is no reason this report had to be 300 pages. There is no reason this fairly straightforward case had to be treated this way. … The job of prosecutors is to put up or shut up.”
Former prosecutor Andrew Weissmann called Hur’s jabs “entirely inappropriate.” He tweeted, “Of course, no crime was committed by Biden, but as anticipated, Hur takes the opportunity to make a gratuitous political swipe at Biden. … [Attorney General Merrick] Garland was right to have appointed a Special Counsel but wrong to pick Hur and to think only a Republican could fit the bill.”
ethics guru Matthew Seligman told me, “What Hur should have written — and all he should have written — is that there is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that President Biden’s level of intent rose to the willfulness standard required by the statute.” Eisen argues that Hur violated the Justice Department’s prosecutorial principles. (“Federal prosecutors should remain sensitive to the privacy and reputation interests of uncharged parties,” the rules say.)
|
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by lizacreates on Feb 12, 2024 23:14:49 GMT
lizacreates onelasttime I agree with both of you. But my #1 priority is making sure Trump doesn’t win. If Biden is the one most likely to be able to beat Trump, I am all in on Biden. And aj2hall , thanks for that opinion piece. I am more outraged than I can say about a freakin’ lawyer taking it upon himself to diagnose a medical condition in a sitting President he doesn’t happen to like. grrrrr I understand. I take your point. ETA: aj2hall , that was an excellent article. I wish more neurologists would speak up. |
|
Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
......
Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
|
Post by Gem Girl on Feb 12, 2024 23:19:56 GMT
Every day of his Presidency I woke up scared of what he had tweeted from the crapper in the middle of the night. He destabilized the world. I feel like the ship has been righted and I can't even imagine that there are people who want to take us back where we were. Yup. I doubt those people realize just how far back we'd be going. |
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Feb 12, 2024 23:34:43 GMT
When a commentator, a former Trump lawyer, says on Fox that Hur was wrong, there might be something to that. thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4463944-dershowitz-says-hur-report-a-disaster-unfair-to-both-sides/Former Trump attorney and law professor Alan Dershowitz denounced the special counsel report on President Biden’s handling of classified documents as “a disaster” and “unfair to both sides” on Monday.
“The report itself is a disaster in both respects. It was unfair to both sides,” Dershowitz, who represented Trump in his first impeachment trial, said in a Fox News interview Monday.
He argued that Hur should have found Biden criminally liable for holding classified documents, comparing the situation to the criminal case faced by Trump. But Dershowitz also defended Biden over the attacks on his memory.
“I think this report is going to really cause us to think hard about the role of special counsel. He was wrong in everything he possibly could have done,” he said. |
|
lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
|
Post by lizacreates on Feb 12, 2024 23:46:53 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/12/garland-hur-partisanship/Special counsel Robert K. Hur had a single task: determine if President Biden illegally retained sensitive documents after his vice presidency. The answer should not have taken nearly 13 months or a more than 300-page report. Hur also should have avoided trashing “the fundamental ethos of a prosecutor to avoid gratuitous smears,” as former White House ethics czar Norm Eisen told me.
But it was Hur’s gratuitous smear about Biden’s age and memory — most egregiously, his far-fetched allegation that Biden could not recall the date of his son Beau’s death — that transformed a snide report into a political screed. Speculating about how a jury might have perceived the president years after the incidents took place was entirely irrelevant because the lack of evidence meant there would be no case.
Former prosecutors were almost uniformly outraged. Jeffrey Toobin remarked, “It was outrageous that Hur put in some of that stuff in this report. That had no place in it.” He added, “There is no reason this report had to be 300 pages. There is no reason this fairly straightforward case had to be treated this way. … The job of prosecutors is to put up or shut up.”
Former prosecutor Andrew Weissmann called Hur’s jabs “entirely inappropriate.” He tweeted, “Of course, no crime was committed by Biden, but as anticipated, Hur takes the opportunity to make a gratuitous political swipe at Biden. … [Attorney General Merrick] Garland was right to have appointed a Special Counsel but wrong to pick Hur and to think only a Republican could fit the bill.”
ethics guru Matthew Seligman told me, “What Hur should have written — and all he should have written — is that there is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that President Biden’s level of intent rose to the willfulness standard required by the statute.” Eisen argues that Hur violated the Justice Department’s prosecutorial principles. (“Federal prosecutors should remain sensitive to the privacy and reputation interests of uncharged parties,” the rules say.)
Yep. Correct on all points. I was a prosecutor in the US District Court (Northern District of Illinois) for several years before going into private practice. Yes, prosecutors talk amongst themselves of their personal opinions of defendants. But you never base a charging or declination decision on personal opinions or biases. You either have evidence or you do not. And you most certainly do not make public your personal opinions of the target, especially someone whom you’re not charging and when your opinions are merely speculative. You just do not. You stick to the facts that are material to the case. In my experience, you pull shit like this and although you won’t necessarily jeopardize your license, you’d at least be severely reprimanded and taken off cases. Because first and foremost, this is unethical and prejudicial. |
|
|
|
Post by peatlejuice on Feb 13, 2024 0:25:31 GMT
To be honest, I don't really care about any candidate's real or perceived mental decline, and won't, until the GOP stop advocating for/attempting to implement fascism. I will vote for a literal infant and a root vegetable before I'll vote for mainstream GOP now.
|
|
|
|
Post by AussieMeg on Feb 13, 2024 1:25:25 GMT
The peas would have had a field day with me continually forgetting the word tambourine this morning, and finally giving up and calling it a shaky thing. I’m 51. This is me, except I'm 56. My daughter is always saying "Use your words, Mum!" when I say something like "Have you seen the thing that goes on the whatsit?" I didn't post this on the other thread, because I just couldn't be bothered jumping into the fray. It's in relation to Biden forgetting when his son died: I have to admit that in the past, I would have been just as surprised/shocked as the OP of that thread that Biden couldn't remember the date of his son's death. But a number of years ago, I met a woman who DSO used to work with. Coincidentally, she was the mother of a very good friend of my sister. Her son and my sister spent a lot of time in hospital together, as they both had CF. They were very close. I was trying to remember whether her son or my sister had passed away first, so I asked her to remind me when her son had passed away. She couldn't even remember the year, let alone the date, and she didn't even have any cognitive decline. I expressed my surprise to DSO later, and he said that she's had a pretty hard life, and he isn't surprised that she couldn't remember. FTR, I remember the day and time and date and month and year that my sister died, so even though it still seems strange to me, I have to accept that people do forget for whatever reason - whether it's due to cognitive decline, too many bad things that have happened, or an attempt to block it out. All that to say, yeah, people forget stuff. (I still don't think that I would ever forget the date I'd lost a child.) |
|
|
|
Post by AussieMeg on Feb 13, 2024 1:41:52 GMT
I didn't even answer the poll question! I absolutely think that Biden has some mental decline, and I don't really think he is fit for the role of POTUS. I don't know whether his mental decline would be classed as significant, or normal for a man of his age. I do wish that there were other younger options for the Democrats. BUT. I would still take Biden every day of the week over trump.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 13, 2024 3:09:37 GMT
I think he has a normal amount of mental decline associated with age, and he also has to overcome a speech issue. The peas would have had a field day with me continually forgetting the word tambourine this morning, and finally giving up and calling it a shaky thing. I’m 51. My 54 year old husband has always been confused about our wedding anniversary date. People forget stuff. I do this more often than I would like to admit. It has been happening for a long time like started in my 30’s. I don’t think it had gotten worse in the last 20+ years but it’s still frustrating when it happens. |
|
|
|
Post by morecowbell on Feb 15, 2024 5:49:07 GMT
www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/12/garland-hur-partisanship/Special counsel Robert K. Hur had a single task: determine if President Biden illegally retained sensitive documents after his vice presidency. The answer should not have taken nearly 13 months or a more than 300-page report. Hur also should have avoided trashing “the fundamental ethos of a prosecutor to avoid gratuitous smears,” as former White House ethics czar Norm Eisen told me.
But it was Hur’s gratuitous smear about Biden’s age and memory — most egregiously, his far-fetched allegation that Biden could not recall the date of his son Beau’s death — that transformed a snide report into a political screed. Speculating about how a jury might have perceived the president years after the incidents took place was entirely irrelevant because the lack of evidence meant there would be no case.
Former prosecutors were almost uniformly outraged. Jeffrey Toobin remarked, “It was outrageous that Hur put in some of that stuff in this report. That had no place in it.” He added, “There is no reason this report had to be 300 pages. There is no reason this fairly straightforward case had to be treated this way. … The job of prosecutors is to put up or shut up.”
Former prosecutor Andrew Weissmann called Hur’s jabs “entirely inappropriate.” He tweeted, “Of course, no crime was committed by Biden, but as anticipated, Hur takes the opportunity to make a gratuitous political swipe at Biden. … [Attorney General Merrick] Garland was right to have appointed a Special Counsel but wrong to pick Hur and to think only a Republican could fit the bill.”
ethics guru Matthew Seligman told me, “What Hur should have written — and all he should have written — is that there is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that President Biden’s level of intent rose to the willfulness standard required by the statute.” Eisen argues that Hur violated the Justice Department’s prosecutorial principles. (“Federal prosecutors should remain sensitive to the privacy and reputation interests of uncharged parties,” the rules say.)
Yep. Correct on all points. I was a prosecutor in the US District Court (Northern District of Illinois) for several years before going into private practice. Yes, prosecutors talk amongst themselves of their personal opinions of defendants. But you never base a charging or declination decision on personal opinions or biases. They didn't. They based it on what they witnessed of his mental ability. From the report: "Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt. It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him — by then a former president well into his eighties — of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness." They weren't personal opinions, they were what they witnessed of Biden's mental ability. What they witnessed is not speculation. It's what they witnessed. Whether or not he's mentally able to process the "serious felony" he committed IS material to the case. No, it isn't. It's relative to the case. The report concludes that no criminal charges against Biden are warranted, But it also says there was evidence that Biden “willfully” retained and disclosed highly classified materials when he was a private citizen. That is evidence of a serious felony. And it highlights his confusion and “significantly limited” recall of events related to the documents. They will not charge him because he could not recall DEFINING MILESTONES in his OWN LIFE. Even within several years. He had to ask someone else. About his own life. |
|
|
|
Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 15, 2024 9:21:25 GMT
AussieMeg I just wanted to address something you said about forgetting the date a child died. It's still pretty fresh for me so I still remember. I even noted it last year and tried to be all ceremonious about it. Feeling like I should acknowledge it. And you know what? I want to forget. I want to forget the date Esther died and I want to simply remember the good stuff on her birthday instead. I want to remember happy moments and not the sad and terrifying. I hope someday I will forget the date she died.
|
|
quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,850
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
|
Post by quiltz on Feb 15, 2024 21:05:40 GMT
(I still don't think that I would ever forget the date I'd lost a child.) I remember all of the dates of when my grandparents died, my parents and dd. I still remember the dates of when I had late miscarriages. I am a *date* person as my mom was a *date* person. Perhaps it is because some of the deaths are also on holiday dates that it helps me to remember?? I don't know. jeremysgirl ~~ Big hugs to you. |
|
