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Post by Merge on Feb 20, 2024 1:22:15 GMT
wapo.st/49CQf1WNow I'm going to bet that lots of women in Alabama and any place that ends up ruling similarly rise up and say, "But we didn't mean THOSE kinds of embryos." Obviously they only meant the embryos of women who want to end a pregnancy, not those who are trying to create one and end up discarding dozens of embryos afterward. But this is the completely foreseeable consequence of extending full human rights to an embryo. Now you can't do IVF without risking prosecution. And you've opened the door to banning all the forms of birth control that can cause an embryo not to implant - pills, implants, IUDs, shots, and nuvaring. Really anything other than good old condoms and diaphragms. Is this what GOP voters intended?
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 20, 2024 1:28:38 GMT
Well well well. Who could have predicted this? I heard a local conservative talk show host( a man, of course) say that “We have to win them over.” That will never happen.
Gosh, does the GOP ever get tired of all of this winning? 🥴🤨
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 20, 2024 1:32:39 GMT
The church has been against forms of birth control that can prevent an embryo from implanting and also ivf for these reasons for as long as I can remember so it’s not a stretch at all that they would try and extend the ban.
There was someone running in AZ that were trying to limit birth control and I think he was including condoms even. I think he was trying to get a bill passed to this effect.
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Post by Merge on Feb 20, 2024 1:35:52 GMT
The church has been against forms of birth control that can prevent an embryo from implanting and also ivf for these reasons for as long as I can remember so it’s not a stretch at all that they would try and extend the ban. There was someone running in AZ that were trying to limit birth control and I think he was including condoms even. I think he was trying to get a bill passed to this effect. Yep. I was raised in a Catholic family opposed to all forms of artificial contraception, but especially methods that might cause an embryo not to implant. I really couldn't have imagined that this viewpoint would become more widespread, and not less. It at least never occurred to my family to want to outlaw contraception for others - only their children were expected to follow those beliefs.  |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 20, 2024 1:43:19 GMT
Nothing about this ruling is unintended!!
It was very deliberate!!
Birth them.. 'they' don't care if they live.. cut all funds to help with food, education, medical care, day care, etc....
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Post by epeanymous on Feb 20, 2024 2:22:32 GMT
Yeah, I have an IVF kid (long story, but it’s kid #2 of the six) so I have gotten to hear alllllllll of the evangelical and Catholic arguments about it. Not my religion, shouldn’t be the basis for government policy.
One thing is that I believe at least some supporters of Dobbs and abortion bans thought the adoptable infant supply would increase (even though everyone who has studied this empirically has found that the vast majority of women who would have chosen abortion who remain pregnant choose to parent, and close family often steps in when they don’t). International adoption isn’t easy or cheap, and many countries have reduced or stopped placements here. If IVF isn’t an option, you are going to have a lot of really bereft people who want to be parents.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Feb 20, 2024 2:48:34 GMT
Yeah, I have an IVF kid (long story, but it’s kid #2 of the six) so I have gotten to hear alllllllll of the evangelical and Catholic arguments about it. Not my religion, shouldn’t be the basis for government policy. One thing is that I believe at least some supporters of Dobbs and abortion bans thought the adoptable infant supply would increase (even though everyone who has studied this empirically has found that the vast majority of women who would have chosen abortion who remain pregnant choose to parent, and close family often steps in when they don’t). International adoption isn’t easy or cheap, and many countries have reduced or stopped placements here. If IVF isn’t an option, you are going to have a lot of really bereft people who want to be parents. I hadn’t thought of them wanting more adoptable children a quick google shows almost 100,000 babies a year from IVF. Thats a lot more people that might consider adoption and if this hasn’t increased the number of adoptable babies it looks like our population may be going down not up. I can’t imagine the added heartbreak this will cause. |
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dawnnikol
Prolific Pea
'A life without books is a life not lived.' Jay Kristoff
Posts: 8,044
Sept 21, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
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Post by dawnnikol on Feb 20, 2024 11:35:18 GMT
Good ol' Alabama.
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Post by hop2 on Feb 20, 2024 11:49:25 GMT
wapo.st/49CQf1WNow I'm going to bet that lots of women in Alabama and any place that ends up ruling similarly rise up and say, "But we didn't mean THOSE kinds of embryos." Obviously they only meant the embryos of women who want to end a pregnancy, not those who are trying to create one and end up discarding dozens of embryos afterward. But this is the completely foreseeable consequence of extending full human rights to an embryo. Now you can't do IVF without risking prosecution. And you've opened the door to banning all the forms of birth control that can cause an embryo not to implant - pills, implants, IUDs, shots, and nuvaring. Really anything other than good old condoms and diaphragms. Is this what GOP voters intended? Can you do IVF and then give away your extra embryos legally? I ask because I know someone who did this, several years ago. So her child has biological siblings about 20 years younger than they are raised by non biological parents. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Feb 20, 2024 13:33:42 GMT
I saw this story last night and was SHOCKED. What happens to all the embryos that aren't used? YOu can't destroy them or give to science. On the other hand, does this mean people can add those embryos to life insurance policies???
And to quote the bible on this decision is just disgusting.
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Post by Merge on Feb 20, 2024 14:28:40 GMT
wapo.st/49CQf1WNow I'm going to bet that lots of women in Alabama and any place that ends up ruling similarly rise up and say, "But we didn't mean THOSE kinds of embryos." Obviously they only meant the embryos of women who want to end a pregnancy, not those who are trying to create one and end up discarding dozens of embryos afterward. But this is the completely foreseeable consequence of extending full human rights to an embryo. Now you can't do IVF without risking prosecution. And you've opened the door to banning all the forms of birth control that can cause an embryo not to implant - pills, implants, IUDs, shots, and nuvaring. Really anything other than good old condoms and diaphragms. Is this what GOP voters intended? Can you do IVF and then give away your extra embryos legally? I ask because I know someone who did this, several years ago. So her child has biological siblings about 20 years younger than they are raised by non biological parents. You can - I believe we had a pea here a while back who used adopted embryos for IVF - but some people, understandably, don’t want their genetic embryos being gestated and birthed by people they don’t know. And most people who do IVF use their own egg and sperm if possible. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,634 
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Post by pinklady on Feb 20, 2024 14:44:22 GMT
Someone needs to call Elle Woods and have her lead the charge on a reckless abandonment lawsuit. IYKYK
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,477
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Post by casii on Feb 20, 2024 14:46:06 GMT
MANY states are queueing up to do the same thing. I have 3 IVF grandchildren. The painful fertility journey was incredibly difficult to witness as a mom to my daughter who was devastated so many times. All the old white men in these states can go suck on a bag of dicks. The Abortion Everyday newsletter continuously updates with news of what's happening around the United States. It's hard, but important for us to be aware of what's going on. I don't read it everyday, but I'll play catch up once every week or two. Abortion, Every Day |
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Post by MorellisCupcake on Feb 20, 2024 15:05:42 GMT
Fuckers all of them.
My only hope (that I'm clinging to) is a blue wave in November, and that they FINALLY turn Roe V Wade into law already.
DH and I have a college friend who has three daughters and is 100% for an abortion ban. I said, you have three daughters! What if something happens and they need help? He just thinks it will never be HIS daughters and they "deserve and will get" healthy children. Seriously, WTF. I have one daughter who doesn't want children, and I'm so rabid about about making the world right for her and every woman in the future who needs/wants/whatever an abortion.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 20, 2024 15:18:22 GMT
The whole thing is a huge Pandora’s box. As I’ve stated again and again, when a government is allowed to force you to go through with a pregnancy you don’t want, people shouldn’t be surprised when that same government doesn’t allow you to pursue a pregnancy you DO want.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 20, 2024 15:28:14 GMT
Fuckers all of them. My only hope (that I'm clinging to) is a blue wave in November, and that they FINALLY turn Roe V Wade into law already. DH and I have a college friend who has three daughters and is 100% for an abortion ban. I said, you have three daughters! What if something happens and they need help? He just thinks it will never be HIS daughters and they "deserve and will get" healthy children. Seriously, WTF. I have one daughter who doesn't want children, and I'm so rabid about making the world right for her and every woman in the future who needs/wants/whatever an abortion. Right. I wish all of those people who think that way could personally meet and talk to some of the women who had WANTED, PLANNED pregnancies and yet ended up at death’s door with sepsis or something else equally bad because they weren’t allowed to receive the health care they desperately needed even though that wasn’t the outcome they wanted. Or those who ended up unable to have future healthy pregnancies because they weren’t given access to needed procedures in time. Women who would leave their living children motherless if they were to die due to these horrible bans and policies. What’s really sick is that there are literally dozens and dozens of these stories out there already just a quick Google search away and people still refuse to believe that anything like that could happen to someone they know and love. SMDH. |
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Post by Merge on Feb 20, 2024 15:34:04 GMT
Fuckers all of them. My only hope (that I'm clinging to) is a blue wave in November, and that they FINALLY turn Roe V Wade into law already. DH and I have a college friend who has three daughters and is 100% for an abortion ban. I said, you have three daughters! What if something happens and they need help? He just thinks it will never be HIS daughters and they "deserve and will get" healthy children. Seriously, WTF. I have one daughter who doesn't want children, and I'm so rabid about about making the world right for her and every woman in the future who needs/wants/whatever an abortion. Yes, they never think it will happen to them. It only happens to “bad” women who “deserve” it. |
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Post by scraplette on Feb 20, 2024 18:00:41 GMT
The whole thing is a huge Pandora’s box. As I’ve stated again and again, when a government is allowed to force you to go through with a pregnancy you don’t want, people shouldn’t be surprised when that same government doesn’t allow you to pursue a pregnancy you DO want. Exactly. This isn’t unintended consequences, the ruling is a logical progression. |
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Post by Merge on Feb 20, 2024 18:26:19 GMT
The whole thing is a huge Pandora’s box. As I’ve stated again and again, when a government is allowed to force you to go through with a pregnancy you don’t want, people shouldn’t be surprised when that same government doesn’t allow you to pursue a pregnancy you DO want. Exactly. This isn’t unintended consequences, the ruling is a logical progression. For the people who initiated these laws, yes, it’s intended. For the people who were duped into thinking Democrats just want to kill babies, this probably wasn’t the intended outcome. But now, thanks to them, we’re all going to have to live with the consequences. |
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Post by hop2 on Feb 20, 2024 18:30:06 GMT
The whole thing is a huge Pandora’s box. As I’ve stated again and again, when a government is allowed to force you to go through with a pregnancy you don’t want, people shouldn’t be surprised when that same government doesn’t allow you to pursue a pregnancy you DO want. yes, indeed, once the government is in control of your womb then they are in control of your womb. And I don’t think they should be. And this is all from the ‘less government’ people |
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Post by hop2 on Feb 20, 2024 18:34:17 GMT
Dumb question.
If an embryo is a child or human, and the storage facility screws up and they thaw or whatever and are gone/ dead/ non viable are they responsible for that “murder”? Say they mix up the embryos and implant it to someone else, are they then human trafficking or kidnapping?
I’m surprised this didn’t have more pushback from fertility companies because there’s a lot of issues to be had here.
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sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,185
Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Feb 20, 2024 18:36:31 GMT
Dumb question. If an embryo is a child or human, and the storage facility screws up and they thaw or whatever and are gone/ dead/ non viable are they responsible for that “murder”? Say they mix up the embryos and implant it to someone else, are they then human trafficking or kidnapping? I’m surprised this didn’t have more pushback from fertility companies because there’s a lot of issues to be had here. And, if due to bad planning by electricity companies, a power failure causes this thawing, can we charge the high ups in the company with manslaughter? |
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Post by scraplette on Feb 20, 2024 18:50:27 GMT
Exactly. This isn’t unintended consequences, the ruling is a logical progression. For the people who initiated these laws, yes, it’s intended. For the people who were duped into thinking Democrats just want to kill babies, this probably wasn’t the intended outcome. But now, thanks to them, we’re all going to have to live with the consequences. I’ll go with people are ignorant before duped. I’m more pessimistic? I hope this opens lots of minds and hearts to understand all situations are not equal. Nor do they need to be justified to others. It’s a long shot… bit has kept me from throwing things |
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Post by sabrinae on Feb 20, 2024 18:50:33 GMT
Exactly. This isn’t unintended consequences, the ruling is a logical progression. For the people who initiated these laws, yes, it’s intended. For the people who were duped into thinking Democrats just want to kill babies, this probably wasn’t the intended outcome. But now, thanks to them, we’re all going to have to live with the consequences. I’m no longer willing to give them that much benefit of the doubt. I’m convinced at this point that they do fully support what’s happening - why else would they keep voting the same way. |
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Post by scraplette on Feb 20, 2024 18:53:00 GMT
Dumb question. If an embryo is a child or human, and the storage facility screws up and they thaw or whatever and are gone/ dead/ non viable are they responsible for that “murder”? Say they mix up the embryos and implant it to someone else, are they then human trafficking or kidnapping? I’m surprised this didn’t have more pushback from fertility companies because there’s a lot of issues to be had here. And, if due to bad planning by electricity companies, a power failure causes this thawing, can we charge the high ups in the company with manslaughter? Gross that we’ve come to this, but I like the way you think. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 20, 2024 19:02:15 GMT
Long story short. Unfortunately some of the forced birth babies are not the right kind to be adopted by many who want babies.
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 20, 2024 21:43:25 GMT
The whole thing is a huge Pandora’s box. As I’ve stated again and again, when a government is allowed to force you to go through with a pregnancy you don’t want, people shouldn’t be surprised when that same government doesn’t allow you to pursue a pregnancy you DO want. On the flip side too, if a government can force you to carry a pregnancy to term, they can also force you to end it. |
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Post by agengr2004 on Feb 20, 2024 21:51:39 GMT
Ugh. I have four frozen embryos so I guess it's time we made some decisions about that. I'm curious what effect these laws (I'm sure they will come to Texas some time soon) will have on our existing contracts/legal documents for embryo dissemination.
ETA: I'm kinda in a hurry to get my hysterectomy done before they decide I can't do that as well.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 20, 2024 22:02:22 GMT
Ugh. I have four frozen embryos so I guess it's time we made some decisions about that. I'm curious what effect these laws (I'm sure they will come to Texas some time soon) will have on our existing contracts/legal documents for embryo dissemination. ETA: I'm kinda in a hurry to get my hysterectomy done before they decide I can't do that as well. I am sorry you are being forced to make that decision soon. I am withholding the very crude comment I was going to make. NOT toward/against you. But them!!! |
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Post by scraplette on Feb 20, 2024 22:33:14 GMT
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