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Post by workingclassdog on Mar 4, 2024 14:15:15 GMT
Sadly I don't think it will happen.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 4, 2024 15:03:26 GMT
same
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Post by mom on Mar 4, 2024 15:29:32 GMT
Yeah, I doubt it as well.
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Post by mom on Mar 4, 2024 15:29:55 GMT
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,525
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Mar 4, 2024 16:18:39 GMT
Unanimous. Interesting. I'll be watching some judges & lawyers on social media for their feedback.
Would've been nice if we never had a wannabe dictator looking to overthrow the government in office.
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 4, 2024 16:25:43 GMT
From Democracy Docket… ” US Supreme Court Keeps Trump on Colorado Ballot, Ruling Only Congress Can Enforce Insurrection Clause”“WASHINGTON, D.C. — In a unanimous decision, the U.S. Supreme Court reversed a Colorado Supreme Court decision removing former President Donald Trump from the state’s primary ballot under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. The Court found that states lack power to remove federal officers under the 14th Amendment, but disagreed on who should enforce Section 3 at the federal level. Last December, in a shocking 4-3 decision, the Colorado Supreme Court disqualified Trump from holding the office of president under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. The court paused its ruling pending an appeal and final decision from the U.S. Supreme Court. By reversing the Colorado Supreme Court’s decision today, the Court’s ruling not only places Trump back on the primary ballot in Colorado, but also impacts the 16 ongoing challenges to his eligibility across the country, including Illinois and Maine. In January, Trump asked the nation’s highest court to determine whether the state Supreme Court erred in removing him from the ballot. After the Court heard oral argument last month on Feb. 8, both liberal and conservative justices appeared skeptical of arguments in favor of removing Trump from Colorado’s primary ballot. In today’s opinion, the Court brought clarity to legal questions surrounding Trump’s eligibility. The Court held that “the Constitution makes Congress, rather than the States, responsible for enforcing Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates.” The Supreme Court found that while state officials may disqualify candidates for state office under the 14th Amendment, these officials do not hold the same power in removing candidates for federal office, including the presidency. While the justices agreed that Trump should remain on the ballot, they disagreed on who possesses constitutional authority under Section 3. The three liberal justices on the Court blasted the conservative majority for concluding that only Congress can enforce Section 3: “ Although only an individual State’s action is at issue here, the majority opines on which federal actors can enforce Section 3, and how they must do so. The majority announces that a disqualification for insurrection can occur only when Congress enacts a particular kind of legislation pursuant to Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment. In doing so, the majority shuts the door on other potential means of federal enforcement. We cannot join an opinion that decides momentous and difficult issues unnecessarily, and we therefore concur only in the judgment.”In the midst of disagreements, Justice Amy Coney Barrett, in a separate concurrence, also added that this case did not “require us to address the complicated question whether federal legislation is the exclusive vehicle through which Section 3 can be enforced.” However, she added that today’s decision “settled a politically charged issue in the volatile season of a Presidential election.” She implored the liberal justices to “turn the national temperature down, not up.” Importantly, the Court did not make a determination on whether Trump’s actions constituted an insurrection. As a result of today’s opinion, Trump will remain on the ballot in Colorado and the other 14th Amendment challenges being waged in 16 other states are effectively resolved — an outcome celebrated by Trump on Truth Social just minutes after the opinion dropped: “BIG WIN FOR AMERICA!!!” x.com/democracydocket/status/1764685788015460735?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nw
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Mar 4, 2024 16:29:17 GMT
IMO, it’s the right decision. I know my opinion may be unpopular, but I believe that once the country allows something like this to happen, it will lead to more chaos in the future. One can just imagine future retaliation by an opposing party. It’s up to the voters to decide, and it’s up to Congress to amend present legislation if the majority of voters demand so. No one state has authority to decide ballot access in a federal election that impacts the whole country.
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Post by workingclassdog on Mar 4, 2024 16:41:21 GMT
IMO, it’s the right decision. I know my opinion may be unpopular, but I believe that once the country allows something like this to happen, it will lead to more chaos in the future. One can just imagine future retaliation by an opposing party. It’s up to the voters to decide, and it’s up to Congress to amend present legislation if the majority of voters demand so. No one state has authority to decide ballot access in a federal election that impacts the whole country. I totally get what you are saying.... and for any other person running I probably feel the same way even if I disliked the person... I just hate Trump to no end, so I was hoping for it (for this one case)...
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 4, 2024 17:04:38 GMT
lizacreates yes it is right, but doesn't mean I like it. I do understand. But he wanted them to decide he did not cause, participate in the insurrection. He did not get that!
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,060
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Mar 4, 2024 17:07:12 GMT
IMO, it’s the right decision. I know my opinion may be unpopular, but I believe that once the country allows something like this to happen, it will lead to more chaos in the future. One can just imagine future retaliation by an opposing party. It’s up to the voters to decide, and it’s up to Congress to amend present legislation if the majority of voters demand so. No one state has authority to decide ballot access in a federal election that impacts the whole country. I totally agree but I hate it! I hate it because we don't have a functioning Congress that actually believes in the Constitution.
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Post by sabrinae on Mar 4, 2024 18:47:56 GMT
This Supreme Court was never going to keep Trump off the ballot. I actually think they made the right decision. We can’t have states piecemeal deciding who is on a ballot for a federal election. This particular case wasn’t ever going to keep Trump off the ballot. I am fearful for the state of our country and think the conservatives on this Court are not consistent in their jurisprudence and favor conservative positions in a way that is unhealthy for the continued functioning of our country. The real test is going to be the presidential immunity question and how long they drag it out before ruling. The clear answer is that President’s don’t have absolute immunity and can and should be held criminally liable. The conservatives are already playing games with that case by refusing to take it and then taking it.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 4, 2024 18:50:53 GMT
They give TFG immunity. He wins in November. Biden has the same immunity. Biden locks him up. All gone!
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,525
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Mar 4, 2024 20:21:19 GMT
It may be the correct decision, but we don't have a functioning Congress. They won't bring a bipartisan border bill to vote.
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 4, 2024 21:10:25 GMT
Twitter can be the source of some interesting thoughts.
I Smoked $364M trump bucks….
”So Biden can incite an insurrection against the Supreme Court today and can't be removed from the ballot because Congress has to pass a bill that Biden can refuse to sign”
&
Do Agra…..
“Biden should go arrest the conservatives members of the supreme court right now! And appoint replacements right now.”
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naby64
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,418
Jun 25, 2014 21:44:13 GMT
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Post by naby64 on Mar 4, 2024 21:24:29 GMT
While I haven't read every post and I don't like the outcome from the Court, I could see it as a slippery slope to die on. While most of us can think(know) he was instrumental in the happenings on Jan 6 for now, it is not a done deal. We don't have a functioning Congress and most likely never will again, sadly. My concern if we started allowing states to decide who could be or not be on a ballot, both sides could start playing games all willy-nilly with ballots. If the "R" didn't like a "D" candidate, they could start proceedings to remove them. "hey, that person did such and such and isn't deserving of that position" and on and on.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 5, 2024 0:28:06 GMT
I have mixed feelings. I do feel a little better that it was unanimous. I have such an intense dislike for Thomas and Alito, I'm sure that colors my perspective. For starters, I wish Thomas had recused himself from this case, given his wife's involvement trying to overturn the results of the election. I find it interesting that those 2 justices were all about historical context and from my perspective, seem to be ignoring it now. The 14th amendment was adopted to deal with the problem of former confederates holding positions of power. Trump's betrayal of his oath of office seems pretty clear cut. I understand the slippery slope argument, but I think Trump's situation is so extreme. Hopefully, one that we won't encounter again. Without a legal background, I'm not really qualified to say if the majority was right about Congress needing to enforce section 3, not the states. I thought this was an interesting point about states running federal elections their own way. www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/27/opinion/thepoint#supreme-court-trump-eligibleSuddenly, the Supreme Court Dislikes Election Chaos At least it was unanimous.
The Supreme Court’s ruling Monday morning that Donald Trump may remain on the ballot — despite the plain language of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which says insurrectionists (even presidents on live TV) are ineligible to serve — was widely anticipated after oral arguments in the case last month.
But unlike the court’s similarly consequential 2000 decision in Bush v. Gore, the ruling in Trump v. Anderson was not 5-4, with conservative justices on one side and liberals on the other. Instead, the court agreed 9-0 with the basic proposition that states can’t enforce Section 3 against candidates for federal offices. (The three liberal justices wrote separately to argue that the court went much further than it needed to in deciding the case.)
And that’s about the best that can be said for the decision. The rationale of the opinion itself is much harder to swallow. If states can decide which presidential candidates are eligible, this “disruption,” the court said, “could nullify the votes of millions and change the election result.” It added, “Nothing in the Constitution requires that we endure such chaos.”
Nothing — really? Let me introduce you to federalism, the way elections are actually run in this country. Each state decides for itself which candidates will appear on its ballot, based on arcane laws regarding the number of signatures they need to gather. Ask Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the independent presidential candidate who is currently fighting to get his name on the ballot in states across the country, how that’s working out for him. Or No Labels, the bizarre group that has managed to secure a ballot line in 11 states so far, even without a candidate.
The point is that these widely varying state laws determine who is and is not on the ballot. As we saw in Florida in 2000, the placement of names on ballots can easily tip the vote in a given state, and with it the entire election. That sure seems like a lot of chaos for the nation to endure.
If the court has decided that it would be better to have a uniform national standard for running federal elections, one that doesn’t unduly empower individual states to “change the election result,” I say hallelujah. Let’s abolish the Electoral College. But that’s not the system we live under.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 5, 2024 0:43:56 GMT
The fact that the judges were unanimous was a consolation until I read this. Maybe they're not so united. I find it interesting that the male justices were in agreement in the majority on the digression into the enforcement of section 3.and the 4 women disagreed with their male colleagues. Maybe it has more to do with the fact that the four women are more liberal leaning than their gender, but still interesting to see where the different justices landed on this issue. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/03/04/supreme-court-colorado-trump-ballot-anger/“If it is not necessary to decide more to dispose of a case, then it is necessary not to decide more.” — Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., concurring in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization (2022)
“What it does today, the Court should have left undone.” — retired Justice Stephen G. Breyer, dissenting in Bush v. Gore (2000)
Those quotations, which bookend the concurring opinion released on Monday by three liberal justices on whether former president Donald Trump can be removed from the ballot in Colorado, amount to the judicial equivalent of fighting words. They constitute a two-part slap across the face of their supposedly conservative colleagues, accusing them of outrageous judicial activism in shielding Trump from being disqualified from holding office under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
“In a sensitive case crying out for judicial restraint,” write Justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson, the court “abandons that course. … Today, the majority goes beyond the necessities of this case to limit how Section 3 can bar an oathbreaking insurrectionist from becoming President.”
The justices aren’t this explicit, but I’ll be their anger translator: You guys are in the tank for Trump in a way that is unnecessary, unseemly and — take that, Chief Justice — hypocritical.
Justice Amy Coney Barrett took a similar position, but with a far more soothing tone. She didn’t join the court’s broadest holding, but she implicitly lectured her colleagues for stirring up the masses. “In my judgment, this is not the time to amplify disagreement with stridency,” Barrett wrote. Stridency, really? Gendered much?
“The Court has settled a politically charged issue in the volatile season of a Presidential election,” Barrett cautioned. “Particularly in this circumstance, writings on the Court should turn the national temperature down, not up. For present purposes, our differences are far less important than our unanimity: All nine Justices agree on the outcome of this case. That is the message Americans should take home.”
To translate again: Simmer down. The children can hear us.
This is the surprising, and surprisingly furious, denouement of a dispute that was both high-stakes and lacking in evident suspense, especially in the wake of an oral argument in which the justices seemed unanimously disinclined to bounce Trump from the ballot.
I confess to being somewhat perplexed, as were a number of liberal legal scholars with whom I spoke after the ruling, about the apparent magnitude of the rage. There is an infuriating tails-Trump-wins, heads-his-critics-loose aspect to the decision in Trump v. Anderson: Where exactly, is the forum in which Trump is finally held to account for his actions?
But the practical implications of the ruling, for reasons I’ll get to, aren’t enormous. What helps explain the level of anger here, I suspect, is the liberals’ fury not just at this decision, but also at the continuing conservative power grab, all under the bogus cloak of judicial modesty. And this is pure speculation, but I wonder whether the liberals’ frustration over other aspects of the court’s behavior, such as the undue delay in hearing the Trump immunity case, might be boiling over and manifesting itself in the Colorado ruling.
The court’s unanimous bottom line in Trump v. Anderson, that a single state doesn’t have the authority to use Section 3 to disqualify a candidate for federal office, was correct, as a matter of constitutional law, the structure of our federal system and the broader public interest. Section 3, enacted in the aftermath of the Civil War to deal with the problem of ex-Confederates seeking to return to power, prevents former officials who “engaged in insurrection” from holding state or federal office.
The Colorado Supreme Court, concluding that Trump was an insurrectionist within the meaning of Section 3, ordered him kept off the Super Tuesday primary ballot as a result. “States have no power under the Constitution to enforce Section 3 with respect to federal offices, especially the Presidency,” the court said in its per curiam ruling. As the liberal justices noted: “Allowing Colorado to do so would, we agree, create a chaotic state-by-state patchwork, at odds with our Nation’s federalism principles. That is enough to resolve this case.”
Where the two sides diverge is with the majority’s digression into the arena of federal enforcement of Section 3 — “musings,” the liberal justices said, that “are as inadequately supported as they are gratuitous” and that would “insulate all alleged insurrectionists from future challenges to their holding federal office.” The majority asserts that, for Section 3 to be enforced, Congress must enact further legislation outlining how and to whom it applies — a hurdle that they haven’t required for any other section of the 14th Amendment.
Not just that, the majority instructs, any such legislation must reflect “congruence and proportionality.” What gives with making pronouncement on issues that aren’t remotely implicated by Colorado’s action?
I get that the court would prefer to nip future challenges to Trump’s legitimacy in the bud; it wants out of the unpleasant and seemingly unending business of deciding Trump cases. Could Congress refuse to certify Trump’s election on the grounds that he is an insurrectionist not entitled to hold office? Could an executive order by an insurrectionist president — call him Donald Trump — be challenged on the grounds that he is not entitled to hold office? Could a prosecution by an insurrectionist attorney general — call him Jeffrey Clark — be similarly called into question?
Confronted with these questions down the road — say, once Trump was back in the White House — there’s little chance the court would declare a sitting president constitutionally disqualified from holding office.
All of which helps explain why the liberal justices are fed up with a court that professes judicial restraint but consistently arrogates power for itself. The most telling aspect of Trump v. Anderson might be the glimpse it offers behind the scenes of a court that, even when it appears unanimous, is deeply divided.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 5, 2024 0:53:46 GMT
Lots of speculation here about the liberal justices' dissenting/concurring opinion and Trump's immunity case slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/03/supreme-court-metadata-sotomayor-trump-dissent.htmlThe Supreme Court’s decision on Monday to keep Donald Trump on Colorado’s ballot was styled as a unanimous one without any dissents. But the metadata tells a different story. On the page, a separate opinion by the liberal justices is styled as a concurrence in the judgment, authored jointly by the trio. In the metadata of the link to the opinion posted by the court, however, this opinion is styled as an opinion concurring in part and dissenting in part, authored not by all three justices but by Sonia Sotomayor alone. Even a techphobic reader can discern this incongruity through careful copying and pasting, piercing the facade of unanimity that the conservative justices sought to present.
What happened? Most obviously, the Supreme Court rushed out this opinion and forgot to check the metadata. The court, after all, scheduled the opinion’s release only one day earlier, on Sunday afternoon, evidently to hand it down before Tuesday’s Colorado primary. Moreover, the justices did not take the bench to announce the opinion, as they usually do—probably because they had not all planned to be in D.C.—further proving that it was a last-minute release. The deeper question remains, of course: Why was an opinion originally authored by a lone justice as a partial dissent transformed into a concurrence authored by all three liberals together?
We cannot know with any real certainty. We may never. But we can certainly speculate!
First, a recap: The Supreme Court ruled that an individual state may not disqualify a presidential candidate from the ballot under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which bars insurrectionists from regaining public office. All nine justices agreed with this bottom line. Five justices went further, however, declaring that only Congress may enforce Section 3 against federal candidates. In a brief opinion, Justice Amy Coney Barrett said the court should not have reached this broader question about congressional authority. Sotomayor made the same point in a longer, more acerbic opinion joined by Justices Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson. Her opinion was styled as a concurrence, but we now know that it was actually, probably until late in the drafting process, labeled a dissent. We also know that the opinion was originally ascribed only to Sotomayor.
Now the speculation: We can guess that the bulk of this opinion was authored by Sotomayor herself. It bears some of the justice’s trademarks, including a realpolitik assessment of the majority’s handiwork and stormy rhetoric about its consequences for democracy. In addition, during oral arguments last month, Sotomayor sounded the most skeptical of Trump and his various legal theories. Perhaps, after arguments, the court convened to vote on the case, and a majority settled on a sweeping rationale in Trump’s favor. Sotomayor then moved forward with a dissent faulting the majority’s overreach. At some point, that dissent turned into the opinion “concurring in the judgment” that we saw on Monday.
Which leads to a second question: Why did a stand-alone Sotomayor dissent transform into a three-justice concurrence? Here, the most rational intuition is that Kagan and Jackson were keeping their votes fluid in the hopes of striking a bargain to avert a gratuitously broad opinion effectively repealing the insurrection clause. This bargain may have been simple; the two justices might have joined with Barrett to seek a fifth vote for a narrow holding, presumably from Roberts. All the while, Sotomayor worked on the fallback option: a partial dissent chastising the majority’s overreach. When Kagan and Jackson realized they couldn’t nab a fifth vote for the narrow position, they teamed up with Sotomayor, making a few changes and signing their names as authors in a show of force and agreement within the progressive bloc. (The description of presidential elections as “a great and glorious thing,” for example, sounds like the work of Kagan or Jackson, not Sotomayor.)
Broaden the scope of the potential negotiations, though, and things get more interesting. After oral arguments, many smart court watchers mused that the justices might reach a grand bargain that tied this case to a separate dispute involving Trump’s claim of immunity from criminal prosecution for election subversion. The liberal justices might agree to keep Trump on the ballot if the court also refused to take up the immunity case. There would be an exchange of votes: Trump stays on the ballot but gets no immunity from prosecution. He could run in all 50 states but would also have to contend with a criminal trial that would likely conclude before the election.
That, of course, didn’t happen: The court sided with Trump on the ballot issue and took up his immunity case last week on a less-than-speedy timeline, helping him run out the clock to November. But maybe Kagan and Jackson were working behind the scenes to strike this grand bargain. Maybe they were withholding their votes in both cases, scrambling to find two conservative justices who would rule narrowly for Trump in one case and swiftly against him in the other. If so, that didn’t happen. But it would still make sense for Kagan and Jackson to withhold their votes in both cases until they got confirmation that no compromise lay on the horizon in either dispute.
Then there is the least interesting possibility: that Sotomayor’s opinion was going to be a partial dissent until Roberts and Barrett prevailed upon her to call it a concurrence—in a bid to look unanimous and “turn the national temperature down” (in Barrett’s words). It’s frankly difficult to see Sotomayor, an independent-minded and principled jurist, buying into this stratagem if she got nothing out of it. And this theory doesn’t explain why the other two liberals signed on as authors apparently so late in the game.
But there is always another bargain to seek, another compromise to pursue. Who knows what these three justices might have received in exchange for removing the word dissent from this opinion. Maybe they needed to call the opinion a concurrence to wrench a separate opinion out of Barrett, one she might not have offered otherwise, criticizing the majority. Barrett strived to frame the outcome as a reflection of friendly unanimity; perhaps she threatened to paper over her disagreement unless the liberals dropped the word dissent to keep up the facade of cross-ideological agreement. Or maybe Barrett was on the fence about whether to grant Trump a full stay in his immunity case and push the case onto next term’s docket, instead of hearing it on a marginally expedited basis this term. If so, perhaps the “concurrence” language was the price of her vote there. Whatever the liberals were able, or not, to eke out of the conservative justices, it appears to have been thin gruel indeed.
Such guesswork is ultimately somewhat of a fool’s errand, but it’s irresistible when the Supreme Court leaves such a big clue dangling in the metadata. (I asked the court for comment on Monday but have not yet received a response.) Whatever happened behind the scenes, the final product is plenty fractured on its own terms. The liberal justices can call their opinion whatever they want. At the end of the day, it reads exactly like what it is: a furious and fearful dissent.
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Post by morecowbell on Mar 5, 2024 3:38:06 GMT
The Supreme Court are the ones SAVING democracy.
That extremist in Colorado was trying to DESTROY democracy. He is more popular than biden (per the NY Times) and you don't want him on the ballot?
That is COMPLETELY AT ODDS with a party supposedly fighting so hard to "save democracy". THAT sort of thing is precisely WHAT is pushing people TO vote for Trump.
They are not a cult. They just don't want a government that would support doing that to a candidate.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,183
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Mar 5, 2024 3:42:09 GMT
The Supreme Court are the ones SAVING democracy. That extremist in Colorado was trying to DESTROY democracy. He is more popular than biden (per the NY Times) and you don't want him on the ballot? That is COMPLETELY AT ODDS with a party supposedly fighting so hard to "save democracy". THAT sort of thing is precisely WHAT is pushing people TO vote for Trump. They are not a cult. They just don't want a government that would support doing that to a candidate. Not sure who you mean as the extremist as the petitioners in the Colorado Court case were a group that included Republicans.
Supreme Court Case No. 23SA300 Appeal Pursuant to § 1-1-113(3), C.R.S. (2023) District Court, City and County of Denver, Case No. 23CV32577 Honorable Sarah B. Wallace, Judge Petitioners-Appellants/Cross-Appellees: Norma Anderson, Michelle Priola, Claudine Cmarada, Krista Kafer, Kathi Wright, and Christopher Castilian
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Post by morecowbell on Mar 5, 2024 3:56:04 GMT
The Supreme Court are the ones SAVING democracy. That extremist in Colorado was trying to DESTROY democracy. He is more popular than biden (per the NY Times) and you don't want him on the ballot? That is COMPLETELY AT ODDS with a party supposedly fighting so hard to "save democracy". THAT sort of thing is precisely WHAT is pushing people TO vote for Trump. They are not a cult. They just don't want a government that would support doing that to a candidate. Not sure who you mean as the extremist as the petitioners in the Colorado Court case were a group that included Republicans.
Supreme Court Case No. 23SA300 Appeal Pursuant to § 1-1-113(3), C.R.S. (2023) District Court, City and County of Denver, Case No. 23CV32577 Honorable Sarah B. Wallace, Judge Petitioners-Appellants/Cross-Appellees: Norma Anderson, Michelle Priola, Claudine Cmarada, Krista Kafer, Kathi Wright, and Christopher Castilian
I'm speaking specifically of CO Secretary of State, Jena Griswold. She led the charge to kick Trump off the ballot.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,183
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Mar 5, 2024 4:04:07 GMT
No, she did not. Jena is she, not he. The 6 petitioners had to put her name on the case. She was a neutral party and was doing her job to examine that all candidates meet the qualifications to be on the ballot. She does this for all candidates. If you listened to the case, she had very little say so not sure where your getting the "extremist" part from. Can you link a source? Petitioners-Appellants/Cross-Appellees: Norma Anderson, Michelle Priola, Claudine Cmarada, Krista Kafer, Kathi Wright, and Christopher Castilian, v. Respondent-Appellee: Jena Griswold, in her official capacity as Colorado Secretary of State, and Intervenor-Appellee: Colorado Republican State Central Committee, an unincorporated association, Intervenor-Appellee/Cross-Appellant: Donald J. Trump. Order Affirmed in Part and Reversed in Part en banc December 19, 2023
If I read this correctly, Jena Griswold is also being sued by the 6 petitioners as she is a respondent-Appellee, but not sure. She is on the side of dump, see the v.?
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 5, 2024 10:22:52 GMT
We’re really in trouble if the conservative majority continues to legislate from the bench. heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/march-4-2024Today the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that states cannot remove Donald Trump from the 2024 presidential ballot. Colorado officials, as well as officials from other states, had challenged Trump’s ability to run for the presidency, noting that the third section of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits those who have engaged in insurrection after taking an oath to support the Constitution from holding office. The court concluded that the Fourteenth Amendment leaves the question of enforcing the Fourteenth Amendment up to Congress.
But the court didn’t stop there. It sidestepped the question of whether the events of January 6, 2021, were an insurrection, declining to reverse Colorado’s finding that Trump was an insurrectionist.
In those decisions, the court was unanimous.
But then five of the justices cast themselves off from the other four. Those five went on to “decide novel constitutional questions to insulate this Court and petitioner from future controversy,” as the three dissenting liberal judges put it. The five described what they believed could disqualify from office someone who had participated in an insurrection: a specific type of legislation.
Justices Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor, and Ketanji Brown Jackson in one concurrence, and Justice Amy Coney Barrett in another, note that the majority went beyond what was necessary in this expansion of its decision. “By resolving these and other questions, the majority attempts to insulate all alleged insurrectionists from future challenges to their holding federal office,” Kagan, Sotomayor, and Jackson wrote. Seeming to criticize those three of her colleagues as much as the majority, Barrett wrote: “This is not the time to amplify disagreement with stridency…. [W]ritings on the Court should turn the national temperature down, not up.”
Conservative judge J. Michael Luttig wrote that “in the course of unnecessarily deciding all of these questions when they were not even presented by the case, the five-Justice majority effectively decided not only that the former president will never be subject to disqualification, but that no person who ever engages in an insurrection against the Constitution of the United States in the future will be disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment’s Disqualification Clause.”
Justice Clarence Thomas, whose wife, Ginni, participated in the attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, notably did not recuse himself from participating in the case.
There is, perhaps, a larger story behind the majority’s musings on future congressional actions. Its decision to go beyond what was required to decide a specific question and suggest the boundaries of future legislation pushed it from judicial review into the realm of lawmaking.
For years now, Republicans, especially Republican senators who have turned the previously rarely-used filibuster into a common tool, have stopped Congress from making laws and have instead thrown decision-making to the courts.
Two days ago, in Slate, legal analyst Mark Joseph Stern noted that when Mitch McConnell (R-KY) was Senate majority leader, he “realized you don’t need to win elections to enact Republican policy. You don’t need to change hearts and minds. You don’t need to push ballot initiatives or win over the views of the people. All you have to do is stack the courts. You only need 51 votes in the Senate to stack the courts with far-right partisan activists…and they will enact Republican policies under the guise of judicial review, policies that could never pass through the democratic process. And those policies will be bulletproof, because they will be called ‘law.’”
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 5, 2024 10:34:46 GMT
No, she did not. Jena is she, not he. The 6 petitioners had to put her name on the case. She was a neutral party and was doing her job to examine that all candidates meet the qualifications to be on the ballot. She does this for all candidates. If you listened to the case, she had very little say so not sure where your getting the "extremist" part from. Can you link a source? Petitioners-Appellants/Cross-Appellees: Norma Anderson, Michelle Priola, Claudine Cmarada, Krista Kafer, Kathi Wright, and Christopher Castilian, v. Respondent-Appellee: Jena Griswold, in her official capacity as Colorado Secretary of State, and Intervenor-Appellee: Colorado Republican State Central Committee, an unincorporated association, Intervenor-Appellee/Cross-Appellant: Donald J. Trump. Order Affirmed in Part and Reversed in Part en banc December 19, 2023
If I read this correctly, Jena Griswold is also being sued by the 6 petitioners as she is a respondent-Appellee, but not sure. She is on the side of dump, see the v.?
Just wanted to echo this. The Colorado Secretary of State was not involved in the lawsuit. www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/colorados-secretary-of-state-discusses-effort-to-keep-trump-off-the-primary-ballot
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Mar 5, 2024 14:57:49 GMT
We’re really in trouble if the conservative majority continues to legislate from the bench. heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/march-4-2024Today the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that states cannot remove Donald Trump from the 2024 presidential ballot. Colorado officials, as well as officials from other states, had challenged Trump’s ability to run for the presidency, noting that the third section of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits those who have engaged in insurrection after taking an oath to support the Constitution from holding office. The court concluded that the Fourteenth Amendment leaves the question of enforcing the Fourteenth Amendment up to Congress. But the court didn’t stop there. It sidestepped the question of whether the events of January 6, 2021, were an insurrection, declining to reverse Colorado’s finding that Trump was an insurrectionist. In those decisions, the court was unanimous. But then five of the justices cast themselves off from the other four. Those five went on to “decide novel constitutional questions to insulate this Court and petitioner from future controversy,” as the three dissenting liberal judges put it. The five described what they believed could disqualify from office someone who had participated in an insurrection: a specific type of legislation. Justices Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor, and Ketanji Brown Jackson in one concurrence, and Justice Amy Coney Barrett in another, note that the majority went beyond what was necessary in this expansion of its decision. “By resolving these and other questions, the majority attempts to insulate all alleged insurrectionists from future challenges to their holding federal office,” Kagan, Sotomayor, and Jackson wrote. Seeming to criticize those three of her colleagues as much as the majority, Barrett wrote: “This is not the time to amplify disagreement with stridency…. [W]ritings on the Court should turn the national temperature down, not up.” Conservative judge J. Michael Luttig wrote that “in the course of unnecessarily deciding all of these questions when they were not even presented by the case, the five-Justice majority effectively decided not only that the former president will never be subject to disqualification, but that no person who ever engages in an insurrection against the Constitution of the United States in the future will be disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment’s Disqualification Clause.” Justice Clarence Thomas, whose wife, Ginni, participated in the attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, notably did not recuse himself from participating in the case. There is, perhaps, a larger story behind the majority’s musings on future congressional actions. Its decision to go beyond what was required to decide a specific question and suggest the boundaries of future legislation pushed it from judicial review into the realm of lawmaking. For years now, Republicans, especially Republican senators who have turned the previously rarely-used filibuster into a common tool, have stopped Congress from making laws and have instead thrown decision-making to the courts. Two days ago, in Slate, legal analyst Mark Joseph Stern noted that when Mitch McConnell (R-KY) was Senate majority leader, he “realized you don’t need to win elections to enact Republican policy. You don’t need to change hearts and minds. You don’t need to push ballot initiatives or win over the views of the people. All you have to do is stack the courts. You only need 51 votes in the Senate to stack the courts with far-right partisan activists… nd they will enact Republican policies under the guise of judicial review, policies that could never pass through the democratic process. And those policies will be bulletproof, because they will be called ‘law.’”Well, I don’t know how else we’re to resolve this. It’s either Sec 3 is self-executing or it’s not. Majority says it’s not and requires Congress to trigger it. Minority says it is and majority should not have foreclosed future challenges by requiring congressional enabling of Sec 3. But where are those future challenges to come from? Groups of voters, states’ offices of Secretaries of State, opposing parties, etc? That’s the point—we’ve already seen these challenges (such as Colorado’s) and there is no consensus. I'm asking this in all sincerity--whether it’s Trump or Biden, is it really the desire of voters in general that a small group of voters, states’ offices and opposition parties have the legal authority to bar a presidential candidate from the ballot? I would much rather that Congress itself create the enforcement legislation that clearly establishes the criteria and procedures. As to insurrection, IMO, the proper bodies for first determining whether he engaged in an insurrection or not are the lower courts and juries, not the US Supreme Court, and definitely not the states’ offices of the Secretaries of State.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 5, 2024 22:11:42 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 5, 2024 22:20:22 GMT
www.nytimes.com/2024/03/04/opinion/supreme-court-trump-colorado-constitution.htmlOPINION DAVID FRENCH The Supreme Court Just Erased Part of the Constitution March 4, 2024 As of Monday, March 4, 2024, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution is essentially a dead letter, at least as it applies to candidates for federal office. Under the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling that reversed the Colorado Supreme Court’s decision striking Donald Trump from the state’s primary ballot, even insurrectionists who’ve violated their previous oath of office can hold federal office, unless and until Congress passes specific legislation to enforce Section 3.
In the aftermath of the oral argument last month, legal observers knew with near-certainty that the Supreme Court was unlikely to apply Section 3 to Trump. None of the justices seemed willing to uphold the Colorado court’s ruling, and only Justice Sonia Sotomayor gave any meaningful indication that she might dissent. The only real question remaining was the reasoning for the court’s decision. Would the ruling be broad or narrow?
A narrow ruling for Trump might have held, for example, that Colorado didn’t provide him with enough due process when it determined that Section 3 applied. Or the court could have held that Trump, as president, was not an “officer of the United States” within the meaning of the section. Such a ruling would have kept Trump on the ballot, but it would also have kept Section 3 viable to block insurrectionists from the House or Senate and from all other federal offices.
A somewhat broader ruling might have held that Trump did not engage in insurrection or rebellion or provide aid and comfort to the enemies of the Constitution. Such a ruling would have sharply limited Section 3 to apply almost exclusively to Civil War-style conflicts, an outcome at odds with the text and original public meaning of the section. It’s worth noting that, by not taking this path, the court did not exonerate Trump from participating in an insurrection
But instead of any of these options, the court went with arguably the broadest reasoning available: that Section 3 isn’t self-executing, and thus has no force or effect in the absence of congressional action. This argument is rooted in Section 5 of the amendment, which states that “Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”
But Section 5, on its face, does not give Congress exclusive power to enforce the amendment. As Justices Elena Kagan, Sotomayor and Ketanji Brown Jackson pointed out in their own separate concurring opinion, “All the Reconstruction amendments (including the due process and equal protection guarantees and prohibition of slavery) ‘are self-executing,’ meaning that they do not depend on legislation.” While Congress may pass legislation to help enforce the 14th Amendment, it is not required to do so, and the 14th Amendment still binds federal, state and local governments even if Congress refuses to act.
But now Section 3 is different from other sections of the amendment. It requires federal legislation to enforce its terms, at least as applied to candidates for federal office. Through inaction alone, Congress can effectively erase part of the 14th Amendment.
It’s extremely difficult to square this ruling with the text of Section 3. The language is clearly mandatory. The first words are “No person shall be” a member of Congress or a state or federal officer if that person has engaged in insurrection or rebellion or provided aid or comfort to the enemies of the Constitution. The section then says, “But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each house, remove such disability.”
In other words, the Constitution imposes the disability, and only a supermajority of Congress can remove it. But under the Supreme Court’s reasoning, the meaning is inverted: The Constitution merely allows Congress to impose the disability, and if Congress chooses not to enact legislation enforcing the section, then the disability does not exist. The Supreme Court has effectively replaced a very high bar for allowing insurrectionists into federal office — a supermajority vote by Congress — with the lowest bar imaginable: congressional inaction.
As Kagan, Sotomayor and Jackson point out, this approach is also inconsistent with the constitutional approach to other qualifications for the presidency. We can bar individuals from holding office who are under the age limit or who don’t meet the relevant citizenship requirement without congressional enforcement legislation. We can enforce the two-term presidential term limit without congressional enforcement legislation. Section 3 now stands apart not only from the rest of the 14th Amendment, but also from the other constitutional requirements for the presidency.
In one important respect, the court’s ruling on Monday is worse and more consequential than the Senate’s decision to acquit Trump after his Jan. 6 impeachment trial in 2021. Impeachment is entirely a political process, and the actions of one Senate have no bearing on the actions of future Senates. But a Supreme Court ruling has immense precedential power. The court’s decision is now the law.
It would be clearly preferable if Congress were to pass enforcement legislation that established explicit procedures for resolving disputes under Section 3, including setting the burden of proof and creating timetables and deadlines for filing challenges and hearing appeals. Establishing a uniform process is better than living with a patchwork of state proceedings. But the fact that Congress has not acted should not effectively erase the words from the constitutional page. Chaotic enforcement of the Constitution may be suboptimal. But it’s far better than not enforcing the Constitution at all.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,183
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Mar 6, 2024 3:32:13 GMT
Not sure who you mean as the extremist as the petitioners in the Colorado Court case were a group that included Republicans.
Supreme Court Case No. 23SA300 Appeal Pursuant to § 1-1-113(3), C.R.S. (2023) District Court, City and County of Denver, Case No. 23CV32577 Honorable Sarah B. Wallace, Judge Petitioners-Appellants/Cross-Appellees: Norma Anderson, Michelle Priola, Claudine Cmarada, Krista Kafer, Kathi Wright, and Christopher Castilian
I'm speaking specifically of CO Secretary of State, Jena Griswold. She led the charge to kick Trump off the ballot. morecowbell what happened to that extremist? Haven't seen your response. Any updates?
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Post by morecowbell on Mar 6, 2024 4:16:46 GMT
Oh, great is the Bobbsey Twins again.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,183
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Mar 6, 2024 4:20:35 GMT
Oh, great is the Bobbsey Twins again. What? Asking about Jena being the extremist. Can you admit that Jena did not put up the suit, like you claimed?
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