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Post by Skypea on Dec 22, 2014 1:44:14 GMT
... I'm horrified about what happened to Michael Brown and Eric Garner and I'm horrified about what happened to these police officers. ... it's not President Obama's or Bill DeBlasio's fault that anger exists in the first place. It would be a whole lot better if people on BOTH sides of the issue quit with the soundbites and simplistic "pro vs. anti" mindset and actually listened to each other because BOTH sides have legitimate concerns.
I'm not so horrified by what happened to Brown and Garner - they were breaking the law - and resisting arrest. Both fighting the officers.
As for BO / DeBlasio - while it's not their fault that anger exists, it IS their fault that they FUELED it - and continue to. Both have an agenda to push with it.
If the left has a legitimate concern, they should address it with the TRUTH. Not with the lies of 'hands up' and / or 'I can't breathe' or that either were race based.
OP - hope your dh stays safe!
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Post by Skypea on Dec 22, 2014 1:52:49 GMT
I will simply reiterate that I hope your words and attitude result in the kinds of changes in these communities which you think are necessary.
well, it's for sure that your words and attitude won't result in good changes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 2:02:17 GMT
Jaden Ramos Yesterday at 8:18pm · New York, NY · Today I had to say bye to my father. He was their for me everyday of my life, he was the best father I could ask for. It's horrible that someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. Everyone says they hate cops but they are the people that they call for help. I will always love you and I will never forget you. RIP Dad.
Post from our fallen brothers 13 year old son. This is the aftermath. Our prayers to all of our LEO & their familes
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Post by I-95 on Dec 22, 2014 2:13:47 GMT
There are so many things in this thread that I would like to cut and paste but I'll just go with this one from PapercrafterAdvocate. You're right, the officer didn't know how old he was, or if it was a real gun, and if that's all the justification it takes to shoot someone, we definitely have a problem with the police.
If the situation is so dangerous, why is one officer responsible for making that kind of decision? Why is it a basically a beat cop who is required to deal with a potentially lethal situation where a person is reported to have a gun? Most PDs don't require officers to have anything more than a HS education, which doesn't say a whole lot about their education, decision making abilities, or even maturity.(these questions are directed at the group, not PCA specifically)
I have read Sarah's responses and I can't see where she's elevating anyone to sainthood. Someone with the open mind you claim to have does not usually put words in someone's mouth, nor make snide comments about whatever they have written. A discussion is an exchange of ideas and opinions, not an opportunity for you to act like a snot.
Anyway, it seems to me, when I read message boards and comments on social media, that some folks elevate LEOs to sainthood, excusing any type of bad behavior by saying that a LEO is in a dangerous profession and must do all he can to make sure he returns home to his family. Fair enough, but more long distance truck drivers are killed on the job than police officers...does this mean we have to get out of the way of any truck on the highway because the driver works in a dangerous profession and needs to do all he can to return safely to his family?
I also wonder whether video cameras have forever changed the way the public judges LEOs. Before the Rodney King incident, it would never have occurred to me that a LEO would beat the sh*t out of someone who was handcuffed and defenseless. Over the years there have been just too many incidents with LEOs making bad decisions for me to believe that many of our officers are not trained well enough, not educated enough, or they have bought into the idea that everyone's out to get them. While there is a strong distrust of the police in many areas of the country, there is also a strong us-against-them mentality in many police departments....and that's not healthy either.
Finally, talking about how people 'must' take responsibility for their actions, or else...c'mon, by the very nature of the interaction, cops are only called when someone is suspected of doing something wrong. We can't make it OK to shoot someone who is being irresponsible. It is the job of the police force to make good judgments....sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, and sometimes their own behavior is downright criminal.
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Post by annabella on Dec 22, 2014 2:21:12 GMT
Real or fake? You have seconds to decide, or you could possibly be fatally shot. The gun Tamir had was all black.
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Post by PEArfect on Dec 22, 2014 2:34:08 GMT
Real or fake? You have seconds to decide, or you could possibly be fatally shot. The gun Tamir had was all black. Being all black makes it easier to decipher real vs toy?
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Post by PEArfect on Dec 22, 2014 2:35:31 GMT
BTW, the first multi-colored gun I posted is real.
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 22, 2014 3:37:07 GMT
Hey, you know, good luck to you. I hope these sorts of open minded and sensitive observations lead to the constructive dialog within the communities you are hoping will change. It's really been working very well so far. What would you suggest then SaraH? Is there a dramatic disconnect in these communities? Absolutely. I can understand the need to vent, and to be angry. I admit that there are some bad cops out there, as in every walk of life, there will always be the wrong elements, and the police are not exempt. Can I feel for the families that have lost a loved one? Yes. I understand that it has to be hard for them to lose a family member, and even harder to have to hear the realities of the actions they chose which contributed to their deaths. The problem is, when we hold these two men up as examples of police violence, we do a disservice to those who actually have suffered injustice at the hands of an officer. Micheal Brown, regardless of his robbery, grabbed an officers gun. He sealed his fate at that moment. Eric Garner was a public menace. The business owners asked the police to respond. When they made the decision to detain him, had he not resisted, he'd be alive. Tamir Rice is a better example of overreaction by officers, and I support investigating that in full. When men with questionable character are used as the face of a movement, the realities of the situation are lost. There is a problem in our inner cities. I'm not sure what all can be done, but know it will not happen overnight. Better education, more opportunities for a way out, even revisiting our war on drugs, I'm an advocate of decriminalization. In fact our war on drugs is a significant player in how we fostered gang and drug violence. It isn't a coincidence that many of the largest protests are taking place in the most dangerous cities in the nation. There is a real problem, but we are looking and protesting the effect of what is wrong and not addressing the root. Is there racism? Yes, absolutely. But there isn't a shred of evidence that any of these cases were racially motivated. To encourage a racial debate in instances that have nothing to do with race, simply divides us further, and each side digs in their heels. I don't have all the answers, but I know that what is happening on your side is not making a difference either. It is complicating things just as much. would it be great to have greater diversity in the police force in these communities, absolutely, but the can't force them to apply. If they aren't applying, they can't get hired. In regards to the amount of police killings, I have seen numbers ranging between 300-1000. These don't necessarily show which are justifiable or not. But put these numbers up against other acts of violence, and they pale in comparison, but no one is protesting that.
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 22, 2014 3:49:30 GMT
Michael Brown was doing more than being irresponsible. He grabbed an officers gun and assaulted him.
In split second moments, it is an us or them, and a cop has to make those decisions that protect them and the public from the suspect. I also think that your questioning the level of intelligence and education of LEO is so very sad. Equating someone who is out there to save your life, versus a truck driver is just disrespectful. Yes, a cops job is more important than a driver.
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 22, 2014 3:51:22 GMT
The officers closest to the scene are the ones who must make the decisions. Are you really suggesting they wait for a senior officer to arrive before doing anything?
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Post by PEArfect on Dec 22, 2014 4:10:59 GMT
I would like to encourage everyone that believes they know LEO policies and procedures to enroll in your local citizens academy program. The academy program will give you a small look into what a LEO faces daily.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Dec 22, 2014 4:43:05 GMT
Haha! I'm a snot!!
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,031
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Dec 22, 2014 4:47:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 5:09:38 GMT
Here is Tamir's "toy" that he was pointing at people (which was done numerous times in the video footage) Now granted, I've only seen one gun close up (while I was being robbed) but it sure as shit looks real to me. I'm pretty sure officers don't have time to examine all the guns that criminals have and then use that information on whether or not to shoot an armed individual. ![](https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/l/t1.0-9/s480x480/10364113_10203531746997687_5991131118106048686_n.jpg?oh=b644551f04a1189b571ec53d065f0921&oe=5532AFF7)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 5:14:31 GMT
ANd here's the footage from the video...and yes, as I said earlier, it appears there was very little time from the time of the officers arrival to the time of the shooting...but I suppose those that blame the police will insist that the armed individuals have to shoot someone first before they're allowed to take action. Again...the cop that shot Tamir should not have been on the force with a weapon based on the reports out there. But I'll say again that Tamir's actions could've put ANY cop in that very same position...and then what? And here's a frame from the video footage that indicates that his arms were not up (I don't believe anyone claimed they were up) but clearly, it does indicate that his arms are down, and certainly appear to be reaching around his waist. I guess the cops should've waited until he pulled out a real gun and killed them both before they worried about it. ![](https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10370970_10203531747917710_1929504532716369088_n.jpg?oh=60f3a1749505214959ef15d8549c1edd&oe=553D9E69&__gda__=1425823500_67465d96cc5e3b291430f6eb2b9bebab)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 5:42:37 GMT
And yet you have no problem with the fact that a bad cop - Darren Wilson - wasn`t charged. Wilson is one of the bad apples. He should be in jail. Sorry no, not a fact. Where's the facts that back this up, cycworker?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 5:47:58 GMT
We can't make it OK to shoot someone who is being irresponsible. No one is trying to do that.
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Post by I-95 on Dec 22, 2014 6:28:54 GMT
Michael Brown was doing more than being irresponsible. He grabbed an officers gun and assaulted him. In split second moments, it is an us or them, and a cop has to make those decisions that protect them and the public from the suspect. I also think that your questioning the level of intelligence and education of LEO is so very sad. Equating someone who is out there to save your life, versus a truck driver is just disrespectful. Yes, a cops job is more important than a driver. With regard to the comment I made on responsibility... I was referring to the shooting of Tamir, not Michael Brown. I disagree with you saying that a truck driver's job is more important than a that of a cop. Both are vital to the every day lives of all of us. Many truckers die on the job because they fall asleep at the wheel.....trying to get your fresh produce to the store. They work long hours (averaging 14 hours a day) for very little money (average pay for a LD trucker is $38K a year) so I don't think you get to put one above the other. As for the IQ of LEOs...maybe you live in an area where the police department requirements are higher, but here in the South, specifically Florida, there are a lot of low IQ cops wearing a badge and a gun. When I lived in California I had the utmost respect for police officers, my experience with them in Florida leaves me suspicious and with a strong sense of distrust. Again, that doesn't make them all bad, but I have gone from a position of automatic respect and trust to not ever wanting to be alone with one....unless it's on tape, and you're right, that's sad, I wish it wasn't so, but I know folks who have had worse experiences than mine so I understand how people get to be angry and distrustful. On the other hand, where we lived in Ca. about the worst thing the local PD had to deal with was some kids lighting a fire in a trash can...there were no homicides, no armed home invasions, hardly any residential robberies, even the DV calls were pretty tame. Don't get me wrong, I know that the vast majority of LEOs are dedicated, hard working, community minded people who do a stand up job, but that doesn't make them saints, and it doesn't mean the public shouldn't question what goes on in a department when a cop gets caught on tape doing something wrong....for every video tape that exists you can bet there are many more incidents that weren't caught on tape.
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Post by I-95 on Dec 22, 2014 7:15:58 GMT
The officers closest to the scene are the ones who must make the decisions. Are you really suggesting they wait for a senior officer to arrive before doing anything? I actually wasn't suggesting anything, just asking a question, but let's look at the Tamir Rice case. He was reported to be waving a gun around. The officers arrive and he is obviously alone in the park....not threatening the public, wouldn't it make sense to keep your distance and call for someone more experienced to perhaps try talking first? Was it necessary for the officer to pull right up to the person that had been reported to have a weapon, then kill him before he had time to respond to anything? The officer claimed he said 'drop your weapon' 3x before he shot....if that's true, he must have said it before he exited the vehicle because that patrol car had barely stopped before that child was dead. I'm just looking for an alternative to using deadly force so quickly.
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Post by PEArfect on Dec 22, 2014 7:36:14 GMT
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Post by I-95 on Dec 22, 2014 11:53:52 GMT
Whoa! That's pretty shocking. I watched it 3 or 4 times to see if I could see anything that would have caused the cop to fire... the man had put his gun down on the pavement before he was shot....am I missing something? It's a very short video.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 12:19:04 GMT
Ok let's add to the disscussion everyone seems to be leaning to reform. What reform for LEO? What reform for the public?
My husband's squad 90% of them have a 4 year degree, 80 % of them have served in the miltary. All of them request additional training throughout the year. We will use my husband as an example. He has been with the department for close to 10 years. Education wise he has a bachelor's in criminal justice an associates in bussiness & is working toward a bachelor's in psychology(slow going as he is always covering a shift). He is a Field Training Officer, he has trained close to 15 deputies. He is regarded as the go to training officer, he hates that. He dosent believe in being given accolades for doing his job.
He has received deputy of the quarter 3 times & deputy of the year 2 times. He has received several community service related awards.
He is a specialized instructor...means he teaches at colleges & other departments.
Has been in IA once for a citizen complaint. He was rude to an abusive father.
He requests every bit of training he can put in for. The last class he asked for he was turned down, the reason for the Training Coordinator was he had enough training for the year.....really...
His pay just went up after 4 years. He is only making .46 cent above staring pay. With 10 years experience. The chief deputy said there is no money to pay their experienced guys more & many are leaving.
He works his shifts, work when he is voluntold. He worked the jail for close to 3 years, works tons of voluntold time in the jail and the front desk. So its not just street experience. He refuses to work schools, not his thing. He volunteers there enough & has no desire right now to go to detectives. He has not risen in rank as the only place for the foreseeable future to gain rank is in the jail & he has no desire to go back there.
Every body on his shift has a kid bag in their car from their own money. It contains,clothing, socks,jackets, hats, gloves, kids being kids, coloring books, crayons, stuffed animals, blankets, CD players with CDs and headphones, little keychain that light up, and business cards made with kids design, and of course the most important kid friendly snacks and drinks. You have no clue how many times that bag get used each month. Us wives are always on the lookout for inexpensive things to put in those bags.
Please as always keep it civil & be thoughtful. If you have a suggestion back it with a way. Thanks ...check in later
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 12:23:19 GMT
Whoa! That's pretty shocking. I watched it 3 or 4 times to see if I could see anything that would have caused the cop to fire... the man had put his gun down on the pavement before he was shot....am I missing something? It's a very short video. Yes, you're missing the 2nd gun he's pulling out from his back waistband.
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 22, 2014 14:55:56 GMT
Michael Brown was doing more than being irresponsible. He grabbed an officers gun and assaulted him. In split second moments, it is an us or them, and a cop has to make those decisions that protect them and the public from the suspect. I also think that your questioning the level of intelligence and education of LEO is so very sad. Equating someone who is out there to save your life, versus a truck driver is just disrespectful. Yes, a cops job is more important than a driver. With regard to the comment I made on responsibility... I was referring to the shooting of Tamir, not Michael Brown. I disagree with you saying that a truck driver's job is more important than a that of a cop. Both are vital to the every day lives of all of us. Many truckers die on the job because they fall asleep at the wheel.....trying to get your fresh produce to the store. They work long hours (averaging 14 hours a day) for very little money (average pay for a LD trucker is $38K a year) so I don't think you get to put one above the other. As for the IQ of LEOs...maybe you live in an area where the police department requirements are higher, but here in the South, specifically Florida, there are a lot of low IQ cops wearing a badge and a gun. When I lived in California I had the utmost respect for police officers, my experience with them in Florida leaves me suspicious and with a strong sense of distrust. Again, that doesn't make them all bad, but I have gone from a position of automatic respect and trust to not ever wanting to be alone with one....unless it's on tape, and you're right, that's sad, I wish it wasn't so, but I know folks who have had worse experiences than mine so I understand how people get to be angry and distrustful. On the other hand, where we lived in Ca. about the worst thing the local PD had to deal with was some kids lighting a fire in a trash can...there were no homicides, no armed home invasions, hardly any residential robberies, even the DV calls were pretty tame. Don't get me wrong, I know that the vast majority of LEOs are dedicated, hard working, community minded people who do a stand up job, but that doesn't make them saints, and it doesn't mean the public shouldn't question what goes on in a department when a cop gets caught on tape doing something wrong....for every video tape that exists you can bet there are many more incidents that weren't caught on tape. I have mentioned that I am unsure of what to think in the case of Tamir. I am open to seeing more evidence and testimony, as out of the three cases mentioned, this is the only that appears to be LEO overreaction. Still it is not racially based. The fact that more black people are arrested or detained simply goes to the fact that there is a disproportionate number of black offenders. We can throw in a lot of other information such as poverty levels, etc. but just because more black people are arrested doesn't mean the police force is racist. We are really getting into chicken/egg theory here at this point. Here is a link that I found that seems to give an even handed analysis to this subject. Crime StatisticsAnd we will have to agree to disagree. Some jobs are more important, and the job of a police officer and firefighter are life and death jobs. Without them we'd have total anarchy. There is much that can be done to curb the deaths of truck drivers. But to say someone hauling produce is as important as the person willing to take a bullet for you, just doesn't make sense to me. As for low IQs, I have always had positive experiences with LEO both growing up in the midwest and so far in the northeast. I think it is absolutely important to provide continued training for LEO. I'd love to see LEO offered something similar to the GI bill for college courses. But I don't think that it is fair to say that they aren't educated, because while some may only start out with a HS diploma, you don't know what training they have been given, which honestly vocational style training is sometimes better than college courses. If we want to talk about low education standards, we can discuss the TSA who recruited off the back of pizza boxes.
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 22, 2014 15:13:33 GMT
The officers closest to the scene are the ones who must make the decisions. Are you really suggesting they wait for a senior officer to arrive before doing anything? I actually wasn't suggesting anything, just asking a question, but let's look at the Tamir Rice case. He was reported to be waving a gun around. The officers arrive and he is obviously alone in the park....not threatening the public, wouldn't it make sense to keep your distance and call for someone more experienced to perhaps try talking first? Was it necessary for the officer to pull right up to the person that had been reported to have a weapon, then kill him before he had time to respond to anything? The officer claimed he said 'drop your weapon' 3x before he shot....if that's true, he must have said it before he exited the vehicle because that patrol car had barely stopped before that child was dead. I'm just looking for an alternative to using deadly force so quickly. The officer in question was not alone at the scene. His partner who was driving the squad car has been on the force since 2008. Do I personally feel that Loehman shot too quickly, yes. But we also have to remember that hindsight is 20/20. You can say that he wasn't threatening the public now, because we know he had a fake gun. However, if I saw any kid waving a gun around that I couldn't tell whether it was fake or not, I'd feel threatened. There are things that definitely could have been done to avoid this death. But LEO have to be able to do their job, and what happens if they are waiting on a senior officer to arrive and its a real gun and he starts shooting randomly? We train our cops to shoot to kill for a reason. To protect us and protect themselves. But I agree in this instance I can't see a good reason for them to have shot so quickly. But again, it has nothing to do with race.
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 22, 2014 15:14:57 GMT
Whoa! That's pretty shocking. I watched it 3 or 4 times to see if I could see anything that would have caused the cop to fire... the man had put his gun down on the pavement before he was shot....am I missing something? It's a very short video. Yes, you're missing the 2nd gun he's pulling out from his back waistband. I had to watch it a second time to see the 2nd gun as well. You can very clearly see it in his right hand as he falls down. Good thing the cop behind he was watching.
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Post by carly on Dec 22, 2014 15:30:13 GMT
Whoa! That's pretty shocking. I watched it 3 or 4 times to see if I could see anything that would have caused the cop to fire... the man had put his gun down on the pavement before he was shot....am I missing something? It's a very short video. You just proved everything that the officers are dealing with. You had 3 or 4 times to watch the video, they only get 1 chance. Thank God for the police.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,031
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Dec 22, 2014 15:59:28 GMT
The officers closest to the scene are the ones who must make the decisions. Are you really suggesting they wait for a senior officer to arrive before doing anything? I actually wasn't suggesting anything, just asking a question, but let's look at the Tamir Rice case. He was reported to be waving a gun around. The officers arrive and he is obviously alone in the park....not threatening the public, wouldn't it make sense to keep your distance and call for someone more experienced to perhaps try talking first? Was it necessary for the officer to pull right up to the person that had been reported to have a weapon, then kill him before he had time to respond to anything? The officer claimed he said 'drop your weapon' 3x before he shot....if that's true, he must have said it before he exited the vehicle because that patrol car had barely stopped before that child was dead. I'm just looking for an alternative to using deadly force so quickly. Exactly. He was sitting alone. Not doing anything. Why fatally shoot him? Why not wait for back up?
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Post by cannes on Dec 22, 2014 16:11:07 GMT
There are so many things in this thread that I would like to cut and paste but I'll just go with this one from PapercrafterAdvocate. You're right, the officer didn't know how old he was, or if it was a real gun, and if that's all the justification it takes to shoot someone, we definitely have a problem with the police. If the situation is so dangerous, why is one officer responsible for making that kind of decision? Why is it a basically a beat cop who is required to deal with a potentially lethal situation where a person is reported to have a gun? Most PDs don't require officers to have anything more than a HS education, which doesn't say a whole lot about their education, decision making abilities, or even maturity.(these questions are directed at the group, not PCA specifically) I have read Sarah's responses and I can't see where she's elevating anyone to sainthood. Someone with the open mind you claim to have does not usually put words in someone's mouth, nor make snide comments about whatever they have written. A discussion is an exchange of ideas and opinions, not an opportunity for you to act like a snot. Anyway, it seems to me, when I read message boards and comments on social media, that some folks elevate LEOs to sainthood, excusing any type of bad behavior by saying that a LEO is in a dangerous profession and must do all he can to make sure he returns home to his family. Fair enough, but more long distance truck drivers are killed on the job than police officers...does this mean we have to get out of the way of any truck on the highway because the driver works in a dangerous profession and needs to do all he can to return safely to his family? I also wonder whether video cameras have forever changed the way the public judges LEOs. Before the Rodney King incident, it would never have occurred to me that a LEO would beat the sh*t out of someone who was handcuffed and defenseless. Over the years there have been just too many incidents with LEOs making bad decisions for me to believe that many of our officers are not trained well enough, not educated enough, or they have bought into the idea that everyone's out to get them. While there is a strong distrust of the police in many areas of the country, there is also a strong us-against-them mentality in many police departments....and that's not healthy either. Finally, talking about how people 'must' take responsibility for their actions, or else...c'mon, by the very nature of the interaction, cops are only called when someone is suspected of doing something wrong. We can't make it OK to shoot someone who is being irresponsible. It is the job of the police force to make good judgments....sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, and sometimes their own behavior is downright criminal. A couple of things stood out to me in this post. I'll comment on the bolded part first: In a fluid situation, there simply isn't time for a "meeting of the minds". Police officers are trained to assess and deal with the threat in the appropriate manner. Doesn't always mean that the use of force is appropriate; sometimes it isn't. But, to assume that it should be a group decision on how to handle something is silly and unrealistic.
Of course it's a beat cop that responds to a situation where it's reported that someone is brandishing a gun (or any other 911 call for that matter). Beat cops are just that - out on the beat. They are the cops that are in the patrol cars and answering radio calls. They are who you get when you call 911 because that's how the police system works. The uniformed cops are who respond. You don't have SAU (otherwise known as SWAT), bomb squads, et al out on the street. They are specialty details that are on call. They don't get mobilized for situations like someone waving a gun. Beat cops aren't a bad thing, like seems to be implied in the quote above. They are simply called "beat" because they work a certain area and respond only to calls in that particular area during their shift so that response times stay low. If you, (general you), would like to better understand how your local police department works and how it determines who responds to calls, I'd encourage you to contact them and ask them how they handle different types of calls that come in.
I've said it before in other threads, but I'll repeat it here. I live near one of the largest cities in the US. The last time they hired police officers was in 2006. Let that sink in for a minute. 2006 was the last time a major metropolitan city hired police officers. In 2006 they were well below optimum staffing levels, yet they stopped hiring police officers. Officers have also left that department during that time frame (retiring or quitting). This type of hiring freeze isn't uncommon across the US. Tell me how refusing to add to the police force for 8 years isn't setting up the police department and the community for failure. Yet, it remains acceptable because there is a general hate for the police. Our communities, and our first responders, deserve better.
RE: High School diplomas. Yes, a High School diploma is usually all that's required to become a police officer. However, they receive enough training and ongoing education courses that equals as many, if not more (over the course of a career) credits as a Bachelor's degree. Many officers simply need to take the general education courses in order to be awarded a 2 or a 4 year degree (most of the continuing peace officer training courses are done through local universities). Here, to be promoted to Sergeant you need to have either a 4-year degree, or enough credits to equal that degree (120, I believe). To be promoted higher, you have to have a Master's degree, or the equivalent in credits. To say that the men and women who are working in the police department are "just" high school graduates is a blanket statement that simply isn't true.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 16:51:33 GMT
The officers closest to the scene are the ones who must make the decisions. Are you really suggesting they wait for a senior officer to arrive before doing anything? I actually wasn't suggesting anything, just asking a question, but let's look at the Tamir Rice case. He was reported to be waving a gun around. The officers arrive and he is obviously alone in the park....not threatening the public, wouldn't it make sense to keep your distance and call for someone more experienced to perhaps try talking first? Was it necessary for the officer to pull right up to the person that had been reported to have a weapon, then kill him before he had time to respond to anything? The officer claimed he said 'drop your weapon' 3x before he shot....if that's true, he must have said it before he exited the vehicle because that patrol car had barely stopped before that child was dead. I'm just looking for an alternative to using deadly force so quickly. An alternative to using deadly force so quickly? I'm afraid that's up to the criminals out there committing the crimes. I'm sure all LEO's would love plenty of time to make determinations that are always 100% accurate...but unfortunately, I doubt criminals would cooperate.
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