iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,320 
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Post by iowgirl on May 20, 2024 14:56:08 GMT
The only thing I would approach my daughter with is the concern over his debt. You would need to pick the right time and place for that conversation and don't make it heated. If it gets heated - stop.
I think young people do not fully grasp the issue of student debt until it is a crushing issue. It never goes away and if she marries - it does become her debt also. Make sure she understands that even if you are paying on it - it can be a debt that never goes away. Find out what the interest is and the payment ability. Show that some have been paying for decades and have MORE debt that when they started on it.
Just let her know that you are not forcing any decisions on her - but you want her (and him) to know what this debt is going to be for the REST OF THEIR LIVES! Make it crystal clear that YOU are not responsible for it - you will not pay it and that it magically does not go away.
If you feel like this is a conversation that won't go well - have a financial advisor do it. Sometimes hearing it from someone who isn't your parent has a bigger impact.
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Post by jill8909 on May 20, 2024 14:57:55 GMT
just wanted to say good luck navigating this issue. parenting an adult is harder than parenting a child.
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Post by epeanymous on May 20, 2024 15:11:42 GMT
My oldest just graduated college and is dating a woman I think is terrible for them and kind of a shitty person. I have said not one word. It sucks, but it’s not my own romantic life. If they asked about some of the things that are problematic, I would respond as kindly and neutrally as possible, but I have focused on encouraging my own kid to pursue what they want, have let them know we are always in their corner, treat them kindly to remind them they should expect positive relationships, and wait for this to play out, or not. If not, definitely nothing good will have come from saying negative things about the person my kid marries. It is hard to watch, though!
I would draw the line at abuse (which I would talk to them about) or providing financial support for the other person, but otherwise, I would not intervene.
Edited to add: no one responded to this anyway, but to be clear, I mean *me* providing financial support for the person who isn't my child who does not work. I don't want anyone to think I think couples can't share finances!
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Post by Merge on May 20, 2024 15:13:36 GMT
I just want to pop back in and say that I married a man with two history degrees, no real job prospects, and a significant amount of college debt, after only dating him for six months. I’m sure he did not look like a great bargain to my parents. To their credit, they said nothing.
We struggled for a while but it all worked out in the end. DH got motivated to complete an online MBA and move up the corporate ranks, and now is a successful business owner. Trust your daughter to know her own mind on this matter. No one is guaranteed an easy life.
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Post by summer on May 20, 2024 16:20:32 GMT
You need to stay out of it. Nothing good is going to come out of you telling this young guy what you think he should be doing with his life. He’s still very young. Maybe he and his parents wanted him to focus on school and not work until after he graduates. He will be in the workforce soon enough. He has a lifetime to make a career for himself.
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styxgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,982
Jun 27, 2014 4:51:44 GMT
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Post by styxgirl on May 20, 2024 16:25:22 GMT
Since your daughter is such a hard worker and great student, I feel as a parent, your wish for her is to find a match with equal ambition.
I TOTALLY understand that! I have two college age daughters who both have boyfriends that are good people, but both are not matched with my girls in education or career goals. It is difficult for me to not say anything. I pray every day that things work out how they are supposed to and that my girls will choose whatever makes them truly HAPPY.
Best wishes for you!!
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,241
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Post by pilcas on May 20, 2024 16:42:36 GMT
I can understand you being weary of this relationship. He doesn’t seem to be carrying his weight and you are naturally concerned about a future where this young man would live off your daughter. Unfortunately only your daughter can come to this realization and perhaps some day she will. Until then, as parents we have to let them make their own mistakes.
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Post by mom on May 20, 2024 16:44:49 GMT
just wanted to say good luck navigating this issue. parenting an adult is harder than parenting a child. Dear God, I swear nothing more true has ever been said. |
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Post by epeanymous on May 20, 2024 16:51:26 GMT
I just want to pop back in and say that I married a man with two history degrees, no real job prospects, and a significant amount of college debt, after only dating him for six months. I’m sure he did not look like a great bargain to my parents. To their credit, they said nothing. We struggled for a while but it all worked out in the end. DH got motivated to complete an online MBA and move up the corporate ranks, and now is a successful business owner. Trust your daughter to know her own mind on this matter. No one is guaranteed an easy life. I think the OP's daughter's boyfriend is in a different position than I was, so I don't mean to equate the situations, but I remember when my dh and I got together, my inlaws were "concerned" because I had student loans (my parents made less than my college's tuition and I have worked every day of my adult life) and kept saying how "lucky" I was to be marrying into their family. I am sure if our relationship had otherwise been better I would have gotten over that eventually, but I was truly aghast. I was sitting there with two ivy league degrees, and they were treating me as a liability. It hurt, and was not how you want to initiate your relationship with the person your child (maybe) has chosen. |
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on May 20, 2024 18:09:15 GMT
I wouldn't say anything, because it cause future resentment towards you and your Husband.
She is an adult.
*If* it is a mistake, then it's her mistake to make.
*If* there is a lesson to learn, then it's her lesson to learn.
Mistakes made, lessons learned, trial and error, detours, wrong turns, WTF moments, etc.........are all a part of what give us life experience.
Not being rude, just honest.....stop trying to micromanage your Daughters life and stop circling around your Daughter in your (and your Husband) helicopter.
I am also baffled as to how your Daughters current situation, is causing damage to your marriage?
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Post by mollycoddle on May 20, 2024 19:36:53 GMT
trixiecat - I applaud you for handling some fairly blunt advice with grace. The worry/caring never stops once you’re a parent but you will need to figure out how to take a mental step back for your own sakes 😊 Yes, when you ask the Peas what we think, we oblige! ☺️😁 |
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on May 20, 2024 19:44:03 GMT
A friend of mine was in a similar situation. She asked my opinion( believe it or not, when it comes to this stuff I keep my mouth firmly shut unless asked) and I suggested that she stay out of it. She didn’t, and this led to a serious rift with her daughter that lasted for about a year. If your daughter is already defensive, be careful. How very unPealike of you!  |
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Post by trixiecat on May 20, 2024 19:45:34 GMT
Again I appreciate everyone's comments. I agree with ScrapbookMyLife when she says it is my daughter's life, lessons, mistakes, etc. and she will learn from those.
We live in a very high achieving area. We see what she could be with and we vent to each other. My husband has a strong personality and I am more laid back. He will vent his frustrations and I get tired of there being so much unhappiness. I am at fault too and get frustrated when we see her over and over accommodating him just so she can see him and she gets nothing from him. But like everyone has said this is her decision and her life, not ours.
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on May 20, 2024 20:02:03 GMT
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Post by mollycoddle on May 20, 2024 20:13:48 GMT
A friend of mine was in a similar situation. She asked my opinion( believe it or not, when it comes to this stuff I keep my mouth firmly shut unless asked) and I suggested that she stay out of it. She didn’t, and this led to a serious rift with her daughter that lasted for about a year. If your daughter is already defensive, be careful. How very unPealike of you! Right? The struggle is real. 😆😆 |
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 20, 2024 20:22:32 GMT
Since your daughter is such a hard worker and great student, I feel as a parent, your wish for her is to find a match with equal ambition. I TOTALLY understand that! I have two college age daughters who both have boyfriends that are good people, but both are not matched with my girls in education or career goals. It is difficult for me to not say anything. I pray every day that things work out how they are supposed to and that my girls will choose whatever makes them truly HAPPY. Best wishes for you!! As someone who had an extremely demanding career, I honestly don't wish this for my extremely talented hardworking daughter - or my son for that matter. My classmates who had spouses with flexibility had a much, much easier time pursuing demanding careers. Several had husbands who stayed home while they worked 80+ hours a week or traveled extensively. I gave up a career I really enjoyed after kids as I just couldn't make the heavy travel schedule work with a spouse who also had a demanding career. We both made sacrifices in our careers to balance two ambitious people. I have no clue what the future will bring for my kids, but if either of them choose to stay home or pursue a less demanding career and can make that work financially great- if either of them choose partners who stay home or have flexibility and that can work financially great. If they both pursue partners and all have demanding careers - great. It's not my life to live. But honestly OP - you've raised a daughter who doesn't think she needs to find a man to take care of her - congrats. If at some point they do decide to marry, I'd have a conversation at some point about his debt and provide some financial advice - but that's really it. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 20, 2024 21:11:57 GMT
You need to stay out of it. Nothing good is going to come out of you telling this young guy what you think he should be doing with his life. He’s still very young. Maybe he and his parents wanted him to focus on school and not work until after he graduates. He will be in the workforce soon enough. He has a lifetime to make a career for himself. As someone who has had a paying job of one sort or another since I was 16 (and babysat, shoveled snow, helped with my brother’s paper route, mowed grass before that), this mindset always kind of surprises me. I can possibly see not having a job during the school year especially if a kid is struggling in school and needs all of their free time outside of school for homework and studying in order to get good grades. But I can’t see not having at least a summer job, even if that’s just mowing lawns, doing yard work for neighbors, babysitting, doing something to earn the pocket money you need for whatever. I think it would be a huge deterrent to landing a job once someone graduates if the person has no job experience whatsoever. I feel like my mom did me a huge favor by encouraging me to have a part time after school/ weekend/ summer job. While I didn’t love it at the time, I sure liked having some of my own money to spend for the things I wanted or needed or to do the things I wanted to do with friends. As a parent, I’m trying to give my kid the tools she will need for navigating adulthood and opportunities to learn how to manage her time and her money before she’s out on her own in the world. |
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Post by lisacharlotte on May 20, 2024 21:41:06 GMT
I get the impression you think she'll end up with a successful, high demand job and want her to be with someone with a similar situation. From my personal experience, I wouldn't be married today if I didn't take a backseat to my husband's job. I have always worked, but my jobs were not supporting us, his was. His job required us to move, so I was always the one finding a new job. One of us had to be available to raise our son when he was out of the country or working long hours. There is no reason this has to be the wife. If I'd been the breadwinner, DH would have been happy being a kept man. It didn't work out for us that way. But, here we are, both successfully retired and happy that we both can be lazy all day long.
You need to let her make her own decisions about her life. They don't have to be choices you'd make. Maybe she'll have a fantastic career and he'll be in the more supportive role. Maybe they'll do that and laze around when not working, even if you don't approve. But interfering is a good way to insure you won't be around to witness any of it. Take a breath and let her live her life.
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Post by smasonnc on May 20, 2024 21:55:25 GMT
Your work here is done.
I was on my way to college as I had always planned and fell in love with a restaurant busboy headed to junior college. He was a low level bank auditor when we got married, but 46 years later, it seems to have worked out. My parents were off in space somewhere and didn’t object.
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teddyw
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,162
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Post by teddyw on May 20, 2024 22:10:58 GMT
You need to stay out of it. Nothing good is going to come out of you telling this young guy what you think he should be doing with his life. He’s still very young. Maybe he and his parents wanted him to focus on school and not work until after he graduates. He will be in the workforce soon enough. He has a lifetime to make a career for himself. My kids had quite a few friends whose parents thought this. I didn’t make my girls work through school but if they wanted extras they had to. I think you said your dd is going to be starting a program over 2 hours away. This may work itself out. She probably won’t be able to commute back like that all the time. |
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Post by MorellisCupcake on May 21, 2024 4:05:55 GMT
I remember when my kids were little, I thought those were the hardest years. Idiot that I was. 😜
My boys are in their 20’s now and it’s more stressful than ever.
I give them my opinions and then leave it alone. Of course you’re her mom and want her to be okay but you have to let go of control and let them live their lives, good or bad. I don’t say that lightly, I know it’s hard, but it’s all we can do.
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,184
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Post by samantha25 on May 21, 2024 6:11:04 GMT
Student debt is in his name. Even if married, do not assume his debt or refinance in his name as a couple. He can negotiate his own terms, like under a PLSF, or an income contingency plan. Your daughter does not have to take responsibility of his loan. Yes, they may need to combine funds to pay off his loans as a family while working for 10 years, but keep it in his name. Biden has helped with student repayment plans. Also, seems ridiculous for an undergraduate biology degree to accumulate $100K. That is graduate level expenses. I'd say he was living way beyond his means for a Biology degree to cost $100K. That is ridiculous, frankly. I graduated with a Biology degree and had about $10k debt, public school with Pell grants. My PhD, in Molecular Biology cost me $80K in student loans because my yearly stipend to live on was $13K. I'd like to know what BF as to what his plans are with this Biology degree. Startup company? I got my remaining loans forgiven under Biden as I have paid over 10 years and PSLF. Gl
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Post by hop2 on May 21, 2024 10:06:17 GMT
*IF* they progress to getting engaged, if it were my
Child I might or might not mention in passing to have a prenup that each keep their own pre marriage debt if that’s necessary in your state. I wouldn’t push it. It is her mistake to make. In my state premarriage student debt does not automatically transfer to both upon marriage.
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ddly
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,023
Jul 10, 2014 19:36:28 GMT
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Post by ddly on May 21, 2024 10:39:42 GMT
My ds worked after high school at a full time job. He opted not to go right to college. He lost his job after about a year. He tried a few other things. They didn’t stick. (He lives with me and his stepdad.) He didn’t try to get another job. He did the yard work and kept his space clean. I finally had it 3 years ago (he was 23) and told him that I’m the fall he was either finding a job or going to school. His father enrolled him in a paraprofessional class and he has worked as a para at the same school I work at for the last three years. Last year he decided that being a para wasn’t all that and enrolled in college all by himself, including filling out his FAFSA, and he has finished his first three semesters. He’s going to be a teacher, too.
He has always been a great kid. He’s an amazing para, but he’s gonna make an even better teacher. As frustrating as it was to not push him for those few years after high school that he did nothing, I’m glad that we didn’t. I’m not sure he would have ended up where he is. (He is support staff of the year this year, he just doesn’t know it yet) I think letting him do things on his own time was better for him. My friend keeps saying that his brain wasn’t fully cooked.
I say leave him be. Hopefully he’ll figure it out or your daughter will move on.
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Post by trixiecat on May 21, 2024 11:55:26 GMT
You need to stay out of it. Nothing good is going to come out of you telling this young guy what you think he should be doing with his life. He’s still very young. Maybe he and his parents wanted him to focus on school and not work until after he graduates. He will be in the workforce soon enough. He has a lifetime to make a career for himself. As someone who has had a paying job of one sort or another since I was 16 (and babysat, shoveled snow, helped with my brother’s paper route, mowed grass before that), this mindset always kind of surprises me. I can possibly see not having a job during the school year especially if a kid is struggling in school and needs all of their free time outside of school for homework and studying in order to get good grades. But I can’t see not having at least a summer job, even if that’s just mowing lawns, doing yard work for neighbors, babysitting, doing something to earn the pocket money you need for whatever. I think it would be a huge deterrent to landing a job once someone graduates if the person has no job experience whatsoever. I feel like my mom did me a huge favor by encouraging me to have a part time after school/ weekend/ summer job. While I didn’t love it at the time, I sure liked having some of my own money to spend for the things I wanted or needed or to do the things I wanted to do with friends. As a parent, I’m trying to give my kid the tools she will need for navigating adulthood and opportunities to learn how to manage her time and her money before she’s out on her own in the world. Yes! This is part of where I was coming from. Couple this with knowing you need $3K before the fall the enroll in your last college class to graduate. That alone should be a motivator. |
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Post by trixiecat on May 21, 2024 11:59:22 GMT
Student debt is in his name. Even if married, do not assume his debt or refinance in his name as a couple. He can negotiate his own terms, like under a PLSF, or an income contingency plan. Your daughter does not have to take responsibility of his loan. Yes, they may need to combine funds to pay off his loans as a family while working for 10 years, but keep it in his name. Biden has helped with student repayment plans. Also, seems ridiculous for an undergraduate biology degree to accumulate $100K. That is graduate level expenses. I'd say he was living way beyond his means for a Biology degree to cost $100K. That is ridiculous, frankly. I graduated with a Biology degree and had about $10k debt, public school with Pell grants. My PhD, in Molecular Biology cost me $80K in student loans because my yearly stipend to live on was $13K. I'd like to know what BF as to what his plans are with this Biology degree. Startup company? I got my remaining loans forgiven under Biden as I have paid over 10 years and PSLF. Gl School is expensive nowadays. He opted to go to a private school so he could play baseball. He did get some aid but the $100K was only for tuition, food and dorm living. No more. My daughter graduated from a state school and the tab was slightly over $100K for four years which was tuition, rent, utility bills and food. Her spending money was on her. He isn't quite sure of his plans. Said something about working in a water facility or maybe a lab. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 21, 2024 12:18:59 GMT
Student debt is in his name. Even if married, do not assume his debt or refinance in his name as a couple. He can negotiate his own terms, like under a PLSF, or an income contingency plan. Your daughter does not have to take responsibility of his loan. Yes, they may need to combine funds to pay off his loans as a family while working for 10 years, but keep it in his name. Biden has helped with student repayment plans. Also, seems ridiculous for an undergraduate biology degree to accumulate $100K. That is graduate level expenses. I'd say he was living way beyond his means for a Biology degree to cost $100K. That is ridiculous, frankly. I graduated with a Biology degree and had about $10k debt, public school with Pell grants. My PhD, in Molecular Biology cost me $80K in student loans because my yearly stipend to live on was $13K. I'd like to know what BF as to what his plans are with this Biology degree. Startup company? I got my remaining loans forgiven under Biden as I have paid over 10 years and PSLF. Gl School is expensive nowadays. He opted to go to a private school so he could play baseball. He did get some aid but the $100K was only for tuition, food and dorm living. No more. My daughter graduated from a state school and the tab was slightly over $100K for four years which was tuition, rent, utility bills and food. Her spending money was on her. He isn't quite sure of his plans. Said something about working in a water facility or maybe a lab. You would think with only one class left to take, dude would already have an internship or something lined up for post grad. Or if his grades are good, employers would already be seeking him out. When my SIL’s older kid was graduating with a similar degree, they had a job lined up for several months before graduation. |
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Post by Merge on May 21, 2024 12:23:25 GMT
Student debt is in his name. Even if married, do not assume his debt or refinance in his name as a couple. He can negotiate his own terms, like under a PLSF, or an income contingency plan. Your daughter does not have to take responsibility of his loan. Yes, they may need to combine funds to pay off his loans as a family while working for 10 years, but keep it in his name. Biden has helped with student repayment plans. Also, seems ridiculous for an undergraduate biology degree to accumulate $100K. That is graduate level expenses. I'd say he was living way beyond his means for a Biology degree to cost $100K. That is ridiculous, frankly. I graduated with a Biology degree and had about $10k debt, public school with Pell grants. My PhD, in Molecular Biology cost me $80K in student loans because my yearly stipend to live on was $13K. I'd like to know what BF as to what his plans are with this Biology degree. Startup company? I got my remaining loans forgiven under Biden as I have paid over 10 years and PSLF. Gl And how long ago was this? Times have changed substantially. My daughters have both attended a public university - one graduated last year, one still attending. Including room and board, which were not in any way extravagant, their individual totals for four years are right around $100K. They fully realize how fortunate they are to not have had to take out loans to cover that. I know neither my undergrad or graduate degree cost anything close to that. DH and I both graduated with a master's and he also financed his undergrad through loans, and our *combined* total for multiple degrees was about $75K. So things have changed a lot. ETA: forgot to add, that total for my kids includes the fact that they both got a roughly half-tuition scholarship. And it was still $100K each. |
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Post by Merge on May 21, 2024 12:24:22 GMT
School is expensive nowadays. He opted to go to a private school so he could play baseball. He did get some aid but the $100K was only for tuition, food and dorm living. No more. My daughter graduated from a state school and the tab was slightly over $100K for four years which was tuition, rent, utility bills and food. Her spending money was on her. He isn't quite sure of his plans. Said something about working in a water facility or maybe a lab. You would think with only one class left to take, dude would already have an internship or something lined up for post grad. Or if his grades are good, employers would already be seeking him out. When my SIL’s older kid was graduating with a similar degree, they had a job lined up for several months before graduation. A smaller private school does not always have the sort of job/internship placement opportunities that a larger one might. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on May 21, 2024 12:31:32 GMT
Student debt is in his name. Even if married, do not assume his debt or refinance in his name as a couple. He can negotiate his own terms, like under a PLSF, or an income contingency plan. Your daughter does not have to take responsibility of his loan. Yes, they may need to combine funds to pay off his loans as a family while working for 10 years, but keep it in his name. Biden has helped with student repayment plans. Also, seems ridiculous for an undergraduate biology degree to accumulate $100K. That is graduate level expenses. I'd say he was living way beyond his means for a Biology degree to cost $100K. That is ridiculous, frankly. I graduated with a Biology degree and had about $10k debt, public school with Pell grants. My PhD, in Molecular Biology cost me $80K in student loans because my yearly stipend to live on was $13K. I'd like to know what BF as to what his plans are with this Biology degree. Startup company? I got my remaining loans forgiven under Biden as I have paid over 10 years and PSLF. Gl The thing is, for college these days, 100K for a 4 yr degree is not crazy. My DD goes to our state university. It's approx $25K a year, with room and board in that total. She got NO aid or merit from Maryland. My son is about to start at Auburn. I think it's going to be $34K a year, with room and board, plus he got a merit scholarship. DD is going for her masters, and is in the 4+1 program. We said we would help with undergrad, but grad school is on her. We told our son we would also help with undergrad, but $100K/4 yrs at UMD is about $100K/3yrs at AU. He's going to have to come up with the difference for that 4th year. We have been saving for college for both kids since they were babies, but not everyone does. My parents set up a plan for them, and they will have that to help with the cost of school. Not everyone has parents or grandparents that can or will do that. We looked at scholarships from the schools, and I have been researching outside scholarships too. Not everyone has parents who will do that, and it can be time consuming. So it would drive me CRAZY if I had a young adult hanging out all day, and not try to figure out how to get that amount down. It's pretty much too late for this kid tho, if he only has 1 class left. If he is super lucky, he might find an employer who will pay some of it back, but typically those arrangements are made before the degree is earned. We only looked at schools that we could (mostly) pay for. Not everyone seems to have those tough conversations with kids these days about what can be realistically afforded (IMO, none of it is realistic!) and what signing these loans actually MEANS when its time to pay it back. Those loans, frankly, are predatory and should be illegal! And if he is counting on loan forgiveness, I personally think he shouldn't - it is not guarenteed. Anyways, my point is, if you don't have parents who are having conversations and helping, it can be daunting for a kid. And unfortunately, $100K for a 4 yr degree is insane, but totally the norm these days.  |
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