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Post by trixiecat on May 20, 2024 1:21:17 GMT
Sorry if this get complicated or boring. My daughter who is 22 and just graduated from college with honors has a boyfriend from high school. They have been together for 6 1/2 years. We are so frustrated. She always works on her breaks and when she is home. Not killing her herself but getting maybe 25-30 hours a week during the summers and at winter breaks. She is lazy and accepting. Her boyfriend, outside of 10 hours a week in high school has not worked. He has one more class to graduate and has not worked the past two summers at all. He doesn't have a car so he borrows his parents, but most of the time it is her picking him up and bringing him here or hanging at his house, etc. Remember he is 22, no job and no car. Wouldn't you think he would want to get out of that situation??? Luckily she is going to grad school in the fall 2 1/2 hours away from here. Their situation is partly eroding my marriage away. This is key.
My husband is a very successful salesman and has a great head on his shoulders. We each came from nothing and have worked hard for everything we have. We want the best for her but she is totally in love with this person. We like him, but he just is not motivated. My husband wants to talk to him to give him some advice which I think is great, but I don't want his dad to think we are "going over his head on advice". Our families are completely the opposite which probably shouldn't matter. It is all about the drive to take care of yourself.
What kid at this age doesn't work or at least try to have a car? We had dinner tonight with friends and the husband said he would not get involved. Stay quiet. My husband can not keep his mouth shut to the point it is annoying. And maybe I don't say enough. I want to live a stress free life. I am 61 and my husband is 66. Our daughter constantly gets defensive. She says his issues are not her issues. But in reality, he owes over $100K in loans which will be her issue. He doesn't want to have a job, then she has to step forward to pick him up or go to his parents.
I would like to believe his parent's end game for his is the same as ours. Just find a plan to get him there. That is my vent. We have no idea where to turn with this situation or just let it go.
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Post by Linda on May 20, 2024 1:41:46 GMT
(((Hugs))) I hear your frustration. But I think you need to stay out of the situation. Your daughter doesn't want you involved and you're not his parents.
I do get where you guys are coming from though. My middle is 24, one class shy of a degree, never worked, doesn't drive, and doesn't really have a clear path forward. She has some anxiety and executive functioning issues that are a big factor. Thankfully she doesn't have student loans to pay off and her brother is providing her with a roof over her head while she figures things out. We're happy to house her if needed but she prefers living where there is public transportation (fair enough - I don't drive either and it sucks sometimes).
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Post by Zee on May 20, 2024 1:45:42 GMT
It is not your business whether he works or not and as far as trying to dictate what he does out of concern for your daughter--don't! That never ends up well.
If he is good to her in other ways, MYOB. He's only 22. He has his whole life to work himself to the bone if he so chooses, and if he doesn't, that's also his prerogative. Your daughter is obviously not unaware.
I have literally no idea why this should be eroding your own marriage. Maybe you and hubby need to work on that instead? (I'm not saying that in an unkind way, but whether your DD's BF works summers while in college should certainly not be something eroding your marriage)
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Post by mollycoddle on May 20, 2024 1:51:19 GMT
A friend of mine was in a similar situation. She asked my opinion(believe it or not, when it comes to this stuff I keep my mouth firmly shut unless asked) and I suggested that she stay out of it. She didn’t, and this led to a serious rift with her daughter that lasted for about a year. If your daughter is already defensive, be careful.
I wish you luck. It’s good that she is going away to grad school; the distance might give her some perspective.
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Post by worrywart on May 20, 2024 2:04:49 GMT
Don't confront him. He is fixing to graduate from college then possibly his 'real life' will start. At least he has been in school and accomplishing something - that takes motivation too. It is hard parenting young adults!!
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Post by Merge on May 20, 2024 2:14:10 GMT
Been there done that. She’s an adult and will have to decide whether or not she wants to carry the financial burden for another adult. He may also get his act together and surprise you. But what I know from experience is that criticizing or pushing him will only cause her to cling tighter to him.
Step back and let her figure out what she wants.
Oh and you’re never going to have a stress-free life. Turns out worrying doesn’t stop when they fly the coop. Buy some good wine and hang in there. You can be a listening ear and a soft place to land, but you can’t control her or him at this point.
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Post by Lurkingpea on May 20, 2024 2:15:58 GMT
Absolutely MYOB. Your child is an adult. She has clearly not asked for your advice or help. She needs to make her own decisions and deal with the consequences whatever they are.
As for not having a car, I didn't have one while in college. Parking on campus was too expensive and I could walk or take public transport where I wanted to go. Insurance is also incredibly expensive. More so for boys. Why have that expense just for summer break? And how could he pay for it without a job? Clearly he has a license, so there is some motivation. I work with at least 3 adults who don't have a car of their own. 2 don't drive at all. One shares a car with their spouse. No lack of motivation on their part, I assure you.
How is this eroding your own marriage? You need to focus on that. I am incredibly curious on why this is eroding your marriage.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,036 
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Post by Sarah*H on May 20, 2024 2:24:55 GMT
I am trying to phrase this gently - what do you imagine saying something or getting involved will accomplish? Do you (or your husband) honestly believe that if you just say the right words to your daughter or this young man, suddenly they will adopt a new perspective? That she'll decide she doesn't want to be with this kid because her parents think he's a lazy loser?
And as a parent with kids who are this age, I'm dismayed by your expectations for this young man. He has one class left to graduate - so he's made it pretty much through college right on schedule? My son is the only one of his collegiate friends who has a car and he has that car because we bought it for him. He works. It doesn't come close to covering his living expenses.
It's a hard world out there for this generation. They are trying so hard to do things the way they've always been told is the right way and it may not pan out for them because the generations that have been in charge forever have done a really thorough job at disrupting the economy, the environment and the social structure. Most of them WILL have college debt because that's how we've decided to fund higher education in the USA. They should work but not at dead end jobs but also the jobs that are most likely to hire them without a college degree shouldn't pay a living wage because why should someone who works at McDonald's make more than the federal minimum wage? I don't want this to turn into a lengthier rant but I think it's worth reexamining your expectations and the current outlook for your daughter and this young man. And if they do make mistakes, aren't they at the age where you need to let them do so in order to learn and grow into the adults you hope they will become?
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Ryann
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Love is Inclusive
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Post by Ryann on May 20, 2024 2:26:13 GMT
Honestly, you need to MYOB. He will either figure it out or he won't. His parents and your daughter will either continue to support his lifestyle or they won't. He was not raised in your household - quit comparing him to your daughter. If she wants to spend her time driving him around, it's her choice to do so. Just because it's not how you think she should spend her time doesn't make it a "wrong" choice. Your DH should not have a "talk" with him. If your daughter is already on the defensive, she KNOWS how you feel about her BF and his situation. She doesn't need (or want) you pointing out what you see as his flaws and shortcomings. If the situation is affecting you (and your marriage??) this much, maybe talking to a professional to help you through this stage in your life may be useful. Best of luck to you.  |
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 20, 2024 2:52:09 GMT
Personally I’d stay out of it. I know a couple almost exactly like that. It’s not ending well. The girl’s mom did all she could to help them out and even with that they’ve crashed and burned.
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Post by sabrinae on May 20, 2024 2:57:39 GMT
There may also be a reason he isn’t working that he has decided not to share. There may be underlying health or mental health issues and school alone is enough without adding a job. Maybe mom/dad would prefer he focus on school
And have encouraged him to do so. I have a kid who probably won’t work or at least not much when she is in college. She has POTs and hypermobility spectrum disorder and all the complications that come with chronic autoimmune disorders. Keeping her healthy enough to get through school is more important than her working.
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Post by ntsf on May 20, 2024 3:02:55 GMT
you. have to stay out of it or it will ruin your marriage more. I highly recommend going together to therapy. or even going yourself. you are not in charge of your daughter and it is her life, her choice. many don't have cars at 22, or big plans or ambitions.. as they see the world as a very different place from where you are standing.
be quiet, accept your child for who they are. you can't save her from her choices for the most part.
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Post by mom on May 20, 2024 4:07:18 GMT
Yep, stay out of it. A lot of growing and maturing can happen when they are 2,5 hours apart. Maybe they wont end up together forever or maybe they will. Either way, it's for them to figure out how they want their lives to be. There is absolutely nothing your husband or yourself can say to the young man that is really going to move him until he is ready. And for whatever reason, he isn't ready. But I know many 'kids' in their 20-30 age group that is in him position so it's not like he's the only one in the world floundering.
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Post by Lexica on May 20, 2024 5:33:52 GMT
I tended to use the “plant a seed” method with my son. That was just gently musing about something that I felt he wasn’t paying attention to. Plant the seed with a single statement and then step away from the topic. The seed will either grow or die within him, his choice.. I have been quietly doing that with him for many years. Sometimes he thinks about it and comes back and asks advice, other times he lets it go and so do I. Since your daughter is already upset with you, it is much too late to make any suggestions unless she asks.
I am assuming the bulk of his debt comes from education loans. And it sounds like he is about finished. What is he majoring in? I think it would be a big mistake to say something to the boyfriend about his lack of drive. Have you ever talked to him about his major and what he hopes to do with his education? And not in a pushy way, but just to allow him to talk about his future plans and to foster some excitement for his future? I mean genuinely taking an interest, in a supportive way, not in an intrusive way.
I understand wanting the best for your daughter. You have raised her and hopefully she learned by your example. I think you need to let this go. With one more class, hopefully he will be entering into his chosen career while your daughter finishes up her education. It sounds like your daughter is on a great path with her own education. I don’t understand your comment about her being lazy. It sounds like she is doing very well. She graduated college, works when she can, and is going to graduate school. That doesn’t sound lazy to me.
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Post by gar on May 20, 2024 7:45:59 GMT
Turns out worrying doesn’t stop when they fly the coop. Buy some good wine and hang in there. You can be a listening ear and a soft place to land, but you can’t control her or him at this point. Yes that! You will 'worry' about her for the rest of your life. You (general you) will always have an opinion on everything she does, the jobs she has, the property she/they buy, the friends she sees, the way she (perhaps) raises her children etc etc etc. It goes with the territory of being a parent. I understand wanting the best for her, but nothing you or your husband says will change him - period. Would you have changed your personality if someone had sat you down and said it wasn’t good enough when you were 22? |
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wellway
Prolific Pea
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on May 20, 2024 7:57:17 GMT
Do not have a talk with the boyfriend. Remind your husband he is a good salesman because the people he is dealing with are already interested in what he is selling. Doubt the boyfriend wants to hear his views.
Do not interfere in your daughter's adult relationship. Be there if she asks for advice otherwise back off. The hardest thing to do atm is to watch from the sidelines but that is what you have to do.
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Post by lg on May 20, 2024 8:10:08 GMT
From my perspective:
I was 22 and had no car as I had to pay for my own (parents did not/could not afford to buy me one) and I knew I couldn’t afford to fill one with petrol or pay the insurance even if I did get one by some miracle. The only reason I ended up getting one was I won a financial scholarship in my last year of uni and knew I’d soon be in full time work so I could afford it (and it was still only a car worth $2k and was older than me!)
I also had lectures and labs on site at uni from 8am to 8pm five days a week (with breaks during the day of two hours or so only) during my four years of study so had no opportunity to really work on any day from Monday - Friday.
I did do some part time work on weekends and inter semester breaks, but that came at the expense of my uni work and grades in subjects as I was exhausted and just didn’t have enough hours in the day to do it all.
I lived at home, barely socialised and never went on holidays with my friends as I couldn’t afford it and I wanted to live within my means without going into further debt with car loans, credit cards, personal loans as well as tuition costs etc before I had a steady constant income.
If my boyfriends parents (now dh!) had sat me down and talked to me about my lack of drive as I didn’t own a car and wasn’t working/working enough I may just have had a complete breakdown.
I would try to reframe the situation - that said boyfriend is living within his means in his current stage of life, and whilst once he graduates you would expect him to get employment, buy a car etc that he’s not quite there yet. Better for him to finish the degree and then get a job rather than quitting in the last year, never getting the qualification and still having the debt that dd will have to pay as a part of the family finances if they remain together.
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Post by lainey on May 20, 2024 8:20:40 GMT
Why are you letting something that is in no way your business erode your marriage, that makes zero sense. Wind your neck in.
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Post by hop2 on May 20, 2024 10:29:38 GMT
I could say that your daughter could do better. I mean it’s the instinctual response.
I could say that he get his act together eventually. But that might not be true.
My Aunts husband was like that, he could not hold a job for long. My father got him in a union, made sure he was employed when my aunt had maternity leave 6x. My uncle was happy to be just a vibe. Happy go lucky. The entire family thought he was a bit of a deadbeat husband who ‘made’ my aunt work herself to the bone. My aunt was a nurse who worked tirelessly despite the many kids. She also kept the home. She always seemed tired. In the end my aunt still loved him at the end of her life and missed him since he had passed first. My cousins seem to have fond memories of him as their dad so he wasn’t absent from their lives. I’m guessing the truth was somewhere in the middle. But what im going to say is you can’t tell from the outside of the relationship how it’s going.
And at some point my dad stopped getting my uncle jobs because it would reflect on him.
My dad was a workaholic and my parents were rarely happy. You just never know what’s going on.
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peppermintpatty
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Refupea #1345
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Post by peppermintpatty on May 20, 2024 11:31:49 GMT
Stay out of it. As for the fact that he hasn't worked the past 2 summers, so what. My kids tried and tried to get summer jobs when they were freshmen in college and NO one would hire them. They are extremely bright and capable but the job market was horrible and even minimum wage jobs were just not there.
This kid has the rest of his life to work 9-5. My thought is if they want to spend some time just relaxing (you may not remember how stressful college can be) then do it. You can't do it later. He may be majoring in something that is very intense and may just need to relax on his down time.
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dawnnikol
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Sept 21, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
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Post by dawnnikol on May 20, 2024 12:15:20 GMT
I clearly remember dating a boy for over 2 years when I was in HS and every single person in my family and friends LOATHED him. They tried everything to get me to break up with him. I finally did it on my own. I could not tell you why I stayed with him, but I am absolutely certain all their comments and interventions did nothing to help the process.
I realize your daughter is older, but she's been with him for over 6 years. If she doesn't mind pulling the weight of those things, you have to let it go. I am so sorry this is causing you stress though.
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Post by smasonnc on May 20, 2024 12:35:03 GMT
And as a parent with kids who are this age, I'm dismayed by your expectations for this young man. He has one class left to graduate - so he's made it pretty much through college right on schedule? He's almost got his degree. Stay out of it. You'll just drive a wedge between you and your daughter and she'll get closer to this guy. He may be in your life for a long time and this could cause a scar. His parents probably can't pay for college, much less a car so he has debt. That isn't being a slacker; it's the situation in many American families. My kids brought home boyfriends/girlfriends that we weren't wild about and it was hard not to comment. They eventually settled with people we love. Does he actually not want to have a job or just not a low-wage one that distracts from his studdies? My kids' summer jobs didn't pay enough for a trip to Target. Now that they have "real" jobs, they're all motivated and productive. If you give any advice at all it would be wait to get married until he pays down some debt. In some states, it becomes her debt. |
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Post by littlemama on May 20, 2024 12:54:45 GMT
Your marriage issues have nothing to do with your daughter's boyfriend focusing on school rather than working while in school.
Stay out of it.
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Post by trixiecat on May 20, 2024 12:55:08 GMT
I truly appreciate everyone's comments. This really gives me a different perspective.
I'll make some comments:
I have wondered if he has anxiety and just needs a break. His degree is in biology. We understand it takes some kids longer to finish school for whatever reason and that is not an issue. He is in difficult situation right now. He needs $3K saved this summer to be able to take the class in the fall. With no car his only option for getting to work would be to apply somewhere he could walk to. His dad wants him to get an internship this summer which would be paying, but I am not sure how he would get there. He looks up to my husband and my husband just wanted to ask him what his plan is and see if he could give him advice on getting to his goal. Even though I do not have connections, I have been told that certain labs may hire him to work at a reduced rate until he gets his degree (I am in medical sales). I have passed this information onto previously.
I say eroding my marriage because it is a constant stressor for us and I guess we should try for it not to be. Obviously if we just let this go for the summer and turn our heads the other way and not make comments to each other, then the stress would be gone. We both work from home and when we see them laying around our house or his all day long (when she isn't working) and not doing anything at all (not taking a walk, nothing) it bothers us. I know dating is different from when we were younger but he never takes her out, gets her flowers, doesn't spend a penny on her. If she wants to do something like make mimosas or have a fire in the firepit, she is the one buying all the stuff. I know this is her choice just like it is her choice to constantly pick him up to come here or drive to his house because it is the only way to see him. We just wonder why is he hanging out when maybe he should be taking a job to save the $3K he needs. But I guess it isn't our business.
Bottom line is we need to focus on celebrating our daughter and our relationship with her. Her relationship with him is her business and no matter how much we talk to her about his situation, no good comes of it as most of you have said. And it honestly is giving her the message that we don't like his situation and that we think her decision to be with him is something we don't "approve" up and it will push her away. It is a slam on her.
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Post by trixiecat on May 20, 2024 12:57:10 GMT
Your marriage issues have nothing to do with your daughter's boyfriend focusing on school rather than working while in school. Stay out of it. I never said I wanted him to work while he is in school. Just during the summer when he is off for 3 months. He worked his ass off in school and played a sport. |
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Post by trixiecat on May 20, 2024 13:01:54 GMT
And as a parent with kids who are this age, I'm dismayed by your expectations for this young man. He has one class left to graduate - so he's made it pretty much through college right on schedule? He's almost got his degree. Stay out of it. You'll just drive a wedge between you and your daughter and she'll get closer to this guy. He may be in your life for a long time and this could cause a scar. His parents probably can't pay for college, much less a car so he has debt. That isn't being a slacker; it's the situation in many American families. My kids brought home boyfriends/girlfriends that we weren't wild about and it was hard not to comment. They eventually settled with people we love. Does he actually not want to have a job or just not a low-wage one that distracts from his studdies? My kids' summer jobs didn't pay enough for a trip to Target. Now that they have "real" jobs, they're all motivated and productive. If you give any advice at all it would be wait to get married until he pays down some debt. In some states, it becomes her debt. You are correct. His parents can not pay for his college and he owes over $100K in loans and I totally agree this is the situation with many families. I am not talking about his working while he is in school. Just the summer break. Target here pays $17 per hour. We have a friend whose daughter works there during her breaks and consistently gets 30-40 hours a week. I think that is pretty good. And it is a stress free job. I totally agree about waiting to get married and it being her debt too. Also my daughter is going to pay for her grad. school on her own, along with an apartment and expenses. She will have all of that debt to pay back herself. |
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Post by gar on May 20, 2024 13:10:01 GMT
trixiecat - I applaud you for handling some fairly blunt advice with grace. The worry/caring never stops once you’re a parent but you will need to figure out how to take a mental step back for your own sakes 😊
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wellway
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on May 20, 2024 13:30:20 GMT
trixiecat, I hope you and your dh can navigate this stage of your daughter's life. It's hard to step back, it's like the first time they climb up or walk down the stairs. You know they have to work it out for themselves but you always have your arms ready to steady them. Just to say, if he has anxiety as you suspect then I don't think a job in Wal-Mart would be a stress free environment for him at all.
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 20, 2024 13:32:46 GMT
Of course he can’t take her out or buy her flowers or whatever, dude is broke! You mentioned he has no way to get to a job other than walking, does he have a bicycle? Lots of people who don’t drive do have a bike. What about Uber? I mean, where there’s a will there’s a way. Since he needs $3K for his last class to graduate, where is that money coming from if he isn’t going to work over the summer? Does he own anything he could sell to raise that much cash? What does he spend his time doing while your DD is working? Thankfully they’re not married yet. I guess you should be glad the guy is at least in school. We have another friend whose grandkid is mid 20’s, has no license (and obviously no car), barely graduated HS, doesn’t have a job, doesn’t help out his mom around the house, never had a girlfriend. Isn’t in school and has no plans to go back for anything. The kid’s a total freeloader but his mom is content to just have him around even if all he does is play video games all day and night.  We just don't get it how someone can be that unmotivated, but apparently some people are. |
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Post by trixiecat on May 20, 2024 14:14:30 GMT
Of course he can’t take her out or buy her flowers or whatever, dude is broke! You mentioned he has no way to get to a job other than walking, does he have a bicycle? Lots of people who don’t drive do have a bike. What about Uber? I mean, where there’s a will there’s a way. Since he needs $3K for his last class to graduate, where is that money coming from if he isn’t going to work over the summer? Does he own anything he could sell to raise that much cash? What does he spend his time doing while your DD is working? Thankfully they’re not married yet. I guess you should be glad the guy is at least in school. We have another friend whose grandkid is mid 20’s, has no license (and obviously no car), barely graduated HS, doesn’t have a job, doesn’t help out his mom around the house, never had a girlfriend. Isn’t in school and has no plans to go back for anything. The kid’s a total freeloader but his mom is content to just have him around even if all he does is play video games all day and night. We just don't get it how someone can be that unmotivated, but apparently some people are. Not sure if he has a bike. Within a mile of his house is a shopping center with a McDonalds, a large convenience store, restaurants, a grocery, etc. I am sure one parent could drop him off. Nothing to sell I am sure. What he does while she is working? Fishing with his brothers. Playing video games. Maybe mowing his yard. Carting his brothers to their school activities and jobs. Not sure. I know he goes fishing a lot. His sisters had to work to get their college and master's degrees. And took loans. |
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We just don't get it how someone can be that unmotivated, but apparently some people are.