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Post by jill8909 on Jul 2, 2024 22:18:06 GMT
Background: I live in an area of the country where I have very little in common with my neighbors. i do not share their religious or political beliefs. This has been a struggle but it's ok. I don't expect anyone to change their views because of me. I do not discuss either issue.
So it's been hard to connect and make friends. Husband and I have made friends with one couple and we have an unspoken rule not to discuss stuff. This friendship is important to us because, other than our kids - this is it for us.
Some of the ladies on my street (we are all retired) are very active socially with one another. Apparently there are a lot of get togethers, drinks, etc. I was never included and sometimes would hear about these events and would feel bad, but whatever.
So last night I was included. I was one of 6 women who went out for drinks. Very pleasant.
Until.
We were discussing the several houses on our street that are for rent and someone made racist remarks about the "blacks" she saw visiting one of the rentals, saying that she felt bad for one of the women at the table because she would have to live next door to them. It got worse but I'm giving you a flavor of the exchange. it went on for about a minute or two. No one was joking.
I sat there and said nothing. Absolutely nothing. I don't know who I'm angrier at - the racists or me for not saying anything. It all happened so fast and I was stunned. And a coward.
If I said anything it would have been awkward and it might have ended the friendship with the couple, even though the woman of the couple said nothing.
I never want to see the women who made these remarks again but I will at least bump into them.
Should I have said something?
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zztop11
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541 
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Post by zztop11 on Jul 2, 2024 22:22:53 GMT
IMO, you are not a coward. You were protecting yourself from what you knew is a hostile situation. Did you ever think about having a plan in case this did happen?
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Post by disneypal on Jul 2, 2024 22:29:24 GMT
No, I don't think you should have said anything and you are not a coward. It would have made the situation even more awkward and potential made future encounters awkward. Besides, speaking up would not have changed those racist ladies minds.
I am sure you were quite in shock hearing such talk. You are right to avoid contact with them going forward.
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,239
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 2, 2024 22:29:50 GMT
Honestly there is nothing you could have said that would have made them rethink about their biases.
You need to protect yourself and family.
I am sorry you live around people like that. That has to be very hard and socially limiting.
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 2, 2024 22:30:05 GMT
Look all of us can come up with incisive things to say when we are not there and in the moment. I am really sorry that happened. Hopefully the one you are friends with felt the same way as you did about the exchange and was also kind of frozen. It may be worth rehearsing for yourself what you'd say in that situation if it happened again, because, unfortunately, it sounds like (whether or not it's with this particular group of women) it may happen to you again. I sometimes just ask a question -- "oh, do you mean she should feel upset because they are black?" or even "oh, why do you think she won't want to live next door to her new neighbors?"-- in a neutral tone of voice to see how they will respond (as opposed to saying "hey that is really racist!").
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 2, 2024 22:31:37 GMT
Unfortunately, it is hard to stand up for our beliefs.
I'm sure I'm going to get roasted for this, but I probably would not have said anything either. These weren't people you know well and there is nothing you could've said to change them. I would avoid them from now on.
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Post by workingclassdog on Jul 2, 2024 22:33:35 GMT
I have been there.. I think all in all best not to say anything. Your not going to change her mind anyways especially in that situation. I would avoid her at all costs though. Even if you have to say something later. I can't hardly stand being around someone who makes remarks like that. There are a few people in my life that do and I avoid it as much as possible. So sorry you have to deal with that!
Edited to add: If I was with a friend who was black and someone made a comment like that then all means.. it's fair game at that point.
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Post by librarylady on Jul 2, 2024 22:33:57 GMT
Did the person who included you say things or sit frozen? She may feel just like you felt.
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Post by grammadee on Jul 2, 2024 22:35:42 GMT
What WOULD I do? Probably the same as you. Sit there and listen, but not make waves. Then think of all the things I SHOULD have said, later.
But I have found that occasionally you can sway people With stories of your own experiences. Maybe one experience at a time, with one other person rather than a group. People usually don't change their opinions when confronted; rather, they dig in and hang on to them harder.
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Post by hopemax on Jul 2, 2024 22:39:29 GMT
Everyone has certain skills, and people shouldn't have to feel guilty for not having one. I am not a good extemporaneous speaker, can't come with good come backs. They will pop into my head hours or days later.
Given the nature of the incident, I will assume you live in a rural-ish area. Lots of people have said don't give up on the more progressive, or even just more moderate folks who are stuck in red areas. It may take more work for you to find these people, but it would be a benefit to you. And finding a more compatible group would maybe allow you to be more able to interact politely, while silently blessing their hearts. My first inclination to find more like minded people would be volunteer and community resources groups. But maybe other people who are in a similar environment have other ideas.
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Tearisci
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,237
Nov 6, 2018 16:34:30 GMT
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Post by Tearisci on Jul 2, 2024 22:40:38 GMT
I think my jaw might have hit the floor and the look of disbelief on my face would have been stronger than words. My ex-SIL made some comment about the "Jews" in Florida after the Gore/Bush election and I was flabbergasted. I'm just not around that at all and was truly shocked.
I don't hide my emotions well so I'm sure that would have said it all.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,060
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Post by pinklady on Jul 2, 2024 22:48:41 GMT
In 2024 with a group of strangers, I would not have said anything but I would have left. Years ago, I would have ripped them all new ones but these MAGA type people are absolutely nuts so I would not say anything.
BUT and a HUGE BUT, if you associate with them going forward, then you are essentially condoning their racism.
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Post by gillyp on Jul 2, 2024 22:53:00 GMT
Would you bring it up with the woman of the couple privately? Just saying how uncomfortable you felt during those exchanges and you felt your relationship with the others wasn't at a point where you could have said anything. Hopefully she will say she felt exactly the same and you will feel more a little bit better.
Should you have said something? Would I have said something? I'd like to think I would have said something that made the point that I was not agreeing with the others without being antagonistic to them. I'd like to think I'd give them something to think about. But I am old and I'm not bothered what other people think of me and I'm not living in your situation and I'm sure that when I was younger I'd have kept quiet and been angry at myself.
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Post by scrapmaven on Jul 2, 2024 23:00:03 GMT
I have a big mouth and I stand up to racists and bullies even when I should keep my mouth shut. I would have probably said that I was disgusted by racism and left. You have to live w/these people and I think just avoiding them is a good idea. You might have made your living situation difficult if you had spoken up. I couldn't live in that sort of environment. Are there other neighboring communities where you could make friends w/better people?
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,940
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jul 2, 2024 23:03:32 GMT
I don't know if I would've either, but I have been in situations like that and have said things like "Uh-oh! Don't talk that way in front of this bleeding heart liberal!" and added a wink. Kind of keeping it light but letting them know where I stand.
I was at a Girl Scout camp out when a mom started talking about "the gays" and how lesbians wanted to take over Girl Scouts. I said with a smile "you've got a real live bleeding heart liberal right here who disagrees with you" and she shut up but only you know what the temperature is in your area and on your block. I live in a very, very blue state, so even the most conservative are still probably moderate.
Well, at least you know you're not missing much not being invited with these ladies!
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Post by ~summer~ on Jul 2, 2024 23:04:49 GMT
Of course it’s hard to say what I would have done in the moment - but I think I would have just excused myself and left.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jul 2, 2024 23:37:20 GMT
We were discussing the several houses on our street that are for rent and someone made racist remarks about the "blacks" she saw visiting one of the rentals, saying that she felt bad for one of the women at the table because she would have to live next door to them. I might have said that when I was a kid, we lived in a 4-plex in Navy housing and there was a black family on one side of us. They were the nicest family on God's earth and the people on the other side of us were two alcoholics that drank and screamed at each other all day. Then, looking at the woman who made the comment, I would asked her which she would rather live next to. |
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Post by smasonnc on Jul 3, 2024 0:49:13 GMT
I don't know how I would have put it, but I would have let them know somehow either with a joke, or a question because I have a big mouth about such things. Most people would be polite and not be confrontational which would probably be the way to go in such a gathering, so you can't be expected to fight the battle alone.
I was at a group lunch when a woman I can't stand anyway started blathering about Muslims. I looked at her very pointedly and asked, "Have you ever MET a Muslim?" "No." "You probably should before you dismiss every single Muslim as a terrorist. That's like comparing all Christians to the Westboro Baptist Church." My friends immediately changed the subject. It was uncomfortable for a few minutes, but they all know she's a loon who has a whole bag of racist views, most of which she keeps close to the vest. She's been around so long they keep inviting her so I have to put up with her sometimes.
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ellen
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by ellen on Jul 3, 2024 0:52:17 GMT
My husband and I were outside visiting with some of our lake neighbors who live a couple of cabins away. I thought they were nice people, but one really awful racial comment made me have to go inside immediately. I cringed and said I had to go. I have to wonder if she got the message because that type of thing has never happened again. Now and then she’ll venture into her nutty right wing conspiracy theories and we let her finish, but then i have some task to do like hang clothes on the line. Most recently they were all excited about seeing Trump at a recent NRA convention. WTF? We do kind of enjoy listening to her crazy theories. Apparently Mark Zuckerberg has something to do with her son-in-law’s infertility issues. I put a gay pride flag in one of my flower pots and thought they’d catch on that we’re libs.
You were in a tough situation. I’m sorry that happened.
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zippythebird
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by zippythebird on Jul 3, 2024 1:07:58 GMT
I would be honest and tell them that they were being unpleasent then leave , I could never just sit there while there was that kind of chat going on .
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Post by Merge on Jul 3, 2024 1:07:59 GMT
Look on social media to see if your town or county has a Democratic group that you could be involved with.
I'd like to say I would have done differently. The fact is that I have deliberately surrounded myself with people who wouldn't think like that, because I have that privilege. In redder parts of Texas I'd honestly be afraid of getting death threats or other nasty surprises if it was known I'm a liberal. We used to think we'd retire to the Hill Country here, but now I couldn't do it.
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Post by mom on Jul 3, 2024 1:22:27 GMT
I have no advice, but I just want to tell you that Im sorry you were put in that position. There are people like you in your area, but it may take some harder looking to find them. Don't quit trying to find them. And honestly? If confronted, I bet at least one or two of the other ladies were just as offended as you and didn't know how to respond either.
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Post by jill8909 on Jul 3, 2024 1:33:36 GMT
Love and appreciate everyone's thoughts.
Not rural area - a well to do suburb of a major southern city.
I don't know if my friend heard the discussion or not. There were 6 of us and sometimes more than one discussion was going on. I think I'm going to bring it up with her the next time she invites me to one of these. My friend is leaving for 3 months tomorrow so there will be some space. I don't think the other ladies will reach out to me so I'm avoiding it for now.
We have looked and looked for other friends - political groups, volunteering. Part of the issue is that we are older and don't really drive at night and all the political stuff is at night WAY over in the other part of our suburb.
Thanks for listening and your feedback. i don't think I'l be quiet if it happens again
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 3, 2024 1:33:56 GMT
I'm sorry that you found yourself in that position. I can understand you being annoyed at yourself for not saying anything, and I can also understand you feeling too uncomfortable to say anything.
However.... I'm sorry, but I am not going to give you a pass on this.
My mantra is "Silence is complicity."
Those woman are not the kind of people I would ever want to be friends with, so I would absolutely 100% have said something. Even if it meant losing the friendship of the other couple. And by you not saying anything, they now think you feel the same way they do.
One of our very good friends used a racist word one day, and I said something like "Silence is complicity, so I feel I need to tell you that I don't like that word, and would appreciate you not using it." Several months later he said it again, then quickly looked at me and apologised. Small steps. The annoying thing is, DSO agrees with me, but he wouldn't say anything to a friend about it. So then I look like the opinionated 'bad guy'.
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Post by dizzycheermom on Jul 3, 2024 1:45:39 GMT
If they say things like that in front of you then they believe that you feel the same way. And just my opinion, but sitting quietly just confirmed that to them. I absolutely would have said something and probably would have started with a "what do you mean?" You don't have to confront, just make them think about what they are saying.
No hate to anyone that doesn't think they would say anything but we have to call this type of stuff out every time. Maybe plan it out ahead of time in your mind so that you are prepared when it happens. Again it doesn't have to be loud and confrontational. Usually when asked to explain they realize that they shouldn't have shared their hate out loud.
I will and have called out things like this before but now I have a 1 year old mixed grandson. I wish a b*($h would say something in front of me.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 3, 2024 1:52:45 GMT
In redder parts of Texas I'd honestly be afraid of getting death threats or other nasty surprises if it was known I'm a liberal. That's a very good point, and one that I didn't consider when I posted that I would have said something. It's not something I would need to be worried about here, but yeah, I can see how that scenario could cause me to stay silent. |
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 3, 2024 2:04:35 GMT
I will and have called out things like this before but now I have a 1 year old mixed grandson. I wish a b*($h would say something in front of me. I remember many many years ago, my mum had her house on the market. Her next door neighbours were over at her house when I was there, and they used the most hideously racist term imaginable for Asians. I can't even bring myself to type it. She said "I hope that no <insert racist slur> buy your house." I replied gently "One of my closest friends is married to a Chinese man and her kids are half Chinese. They are the loveliest people." No reply from the racists.  I would love to be there if you ever have to go off on a b*($h ! |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jul 3, 2024 2:27:18 GMT
That’s a tough one. I wish I could say that I would have said something but I’m really terrible at coming up with the right thing to say in the moment. It would be hard to confront someone like that in a room full of new people you don’t know. I would probably be so stunned that I would have said something like, “Did you really say what I think you just said?” I wouldn’t want to have anything to do with those women going forward.
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Post by 950nancy on Jul 3, 2024 2:35:54 GMT
I don't know if this is a case of say nothing or say everything as much as could you have mentioned that you've had X positive experiences with black people. I really hate racism and all of the judging people can do. I might have started by saying something that shouldn't have made it confrontational, but that you have had different experiences than they have with people.
OP, I hope that you find a way to navigate your environment so that you can be happy as well as find someone in your neighborhood that sees things a bit more like you. I can't imagine that all of the neighbors felt that way. At least I hope not.
I grew up in a pretty racist time, neighborhood, and home environment. I am not that person. Working with kids of so many races really helped me see that people are not colors, they are humans.
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Post by worrywart on Jul 3, 2024 2:54:19 GMT
Wow. Well, now you know and you can formulate a plan IF anything like this happens again. I'm sure you were shocked and frozen with indecision because in my world it is not even close to normal to hear people talking like that.
People can be so disappointing - I'm sorry!
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I would love to be there if you ever have to go off on a b*($h ! 
