pantsonfire
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Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 25, 2024 17:13:34 GMT
abc7.com/post/gov-newsom-issues-executive-order-removal-homeless-encampments/15094541/SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- California Gov. Gavin Newsom issued an executive order Thursday for the removal of homeless encampments in his state. Newsom's order would direct state agencies on how to remove the thousands of tents and makeshift shelters across the state that line freeways, clutter shopping center parking lots and fill city parks. The order makes clear that the decision to remove the encampments remains in the hands of local authorities. The guidance comes after a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court earlier this summer allowing cities to enforce bans on sleeping outside in public spaces. The case was the most significant on the issue to come before the high court in decades and comes as cities across the country have wrestled with the politically complicated issue of how to deal with a rising number of people without a permanent place to live and public frustration over related health and safety issues. "We must act with urgency to address dangerous encampments," Newsom said in a statement. While Newsom cannot order local authorities to act, his administration can apply pressure by withholding money for counties and cities. Newsom has made homelessness a signature issue as California governor. He pushed and campaigned for a ballot measure earlier this year to allow the state to borrow nearly $6.4 billion to build 4,350 housing units. The order comes as Republicans have stepped up their criticisms of California and its homelessness crisis as Vice President Kamala Harris - a former California district attorney, attorney general and senator - launches her presidential campaign. Harris entered the race over the weekend after President Joe Biden's announced that he would not seek reelection. ------------------------------------------------ Where will these unhoused persons go if the city decides to remove them and break down their encampment? My city's unhoused numbers have gone down because we turned some old motels into housing units. But those who chose to not follow rules remain outside. This is a complicated issue.
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Post by smasonnc on Jul 25, 2024 17:30:47 GMT
At least there's a plan, if not a perfect one. Human waste on the streets and public parks becoming homeless encampments does nothing to to help either the unhoused or the citizens who pay for public resources.
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 25, 2024 17:59:57 GMT
At least there's a plan, if not a perfect one. Human waste on the streets and public parks becoming homeless encampments does nothing to to help either the unhoused or the citizens who pay for public resources. I agree about the waste and diseases. But this isn't a solid plan. It is left up to each city to figure it out. And withholding funds is stupid.
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 25, 2024 18:00:59 GMT
And because state mental hospitals closed down and laws changed, those who need help won't get it still.
Until laws change, the question remains...where will they go?
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Post by smasonnc on Jul 25, 2024 18:02:42 GMT
At least there's a plan, if not a perfect one. Human waste on the streets and public parks becoming homeless encampments does nothing to to help either the unhoused or the citizens who pay for public resources. I agree about the waste and diseases. But this isn't a solid plan. It is left up to each city to figure it out. And withholding funds is stupid. It's such a tough problem and there's been little action. So many lame excuses for doing nothing. It's not a good plan, but it's a start.
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Post by flanz on Jul 25, 2024 18:05:49 GMT
Horrible!! Not a solution, but yes, the waste and disease impacts are not tenable either.
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Post by needmysanity on Jul 25, 2024 19:16:54 GMT
At least there's a plan, if not a perfect one. Human waste on the streets and public parks becoming homeless encampments does nothing to to help either the unhoused or the citizens who pay for public resources. This is a plan? Removing them isn't a plan, it's a way to move them from one area to another. A plan is having housing, wrap around services for the unhoused. Cities in California have been trying to figure out what to do with the unhoused for years ( I know because I worked for a non profit for 10 years and went to city council meetings regularly where there was never a solution on the table). Newsom is just positioning himself so he can say ", "I tried to do something, but it's the city'fault."
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 25, 2024 19:23:24 GMT
The largest problem is, by law, we can no longer commit unhoused persons who need services. So again where will they go?
I mean in all honesty probably jail. But is that the solution?
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Post by flanz on Jul 25, 2024 19:23:30 GMT
Apparently billions have been spent on "the homeless problem". I'd love to see an accounting of just where the money went and what it accomplished. Seems like a big fat nothing!
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Post by needmysanity on Jul 25, 2024 19:39:49 GMT
The largest problem is, by law, we can no longer commit unhoused persons who need services. So again where will they go? I mean in all honesty probably jail. But is that the solution? CA doesn't have the room for that. They don't even keep folks who committed a crime for more than a day or so anymore. There is a non profit in Central CA and I love their model. It's not fully built so it's hard to say what the impact on the homeless crisis it will make but if more cities could create this type of community we may see a change. www.saltandlightworks.org/
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Post by ~summer~ on Jul 25, 2024 19:44:46 GMT
Overall I’m glad, something needs to be done. It isn’t humane how it is now. I live in SF.
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pinklady
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Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Jul 25, 2024 20:03:12 GMT
Someone more informed can correct me but before the SCOTUS ruling wasn't the core issue in California that if a city didn't have enough "beds" for the unhoused, they could not remove the encampments? Every time a city tried they were taken to court and told they couldn't do it.
With the SCOTUS ruling that being homeless is illegal that all changed.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jul 25, 2024 20:08:36 GMT
Apparently billions have been spent on "the homeless problem". I'd love to see an accounting of just where the money went and what it accomplished. Seems like a big fat nothing! This has been a huge sticking point because, evidently, there is no accounting and no one can say where the money went. I think *we* know where it went. Into someone's big fat pockets.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jul 25, 2024 20:10:07 GMT
Someone more informed can correct me but before the SCOTUS ruling wasn't the core issue in California that if a city didn't have enough "beds" for the unhoused, they could not remove the encampments? Every time a city tried they were taken to court and told they couldn't do it. With the SCOTUS ruling that being homeless is illegal that all changed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that was a city in Oregon or Washington State.
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 25, 2024 20:15:56 GMT
Someone more informed can correct me but before the SCOTUS ruling wasn't the core issue in California that if a city didn't have enough "beds" for the unhoused, they could not remove the encampments? Every time a city tried they were taken to court and told they couldn't do it. With the SCOTUS ruling that being homeless is illegal that all changed. Because of the ruling in Iowa or Idaho, camping was deemed legal. But this new ruling changed that
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Post by ~summer~ on Jul 25, 2024 20:21:42 GMT
Someone more informed can correct me but before the SCOTUS ruling wasn't the core issue in California that if a city didn't have enough "beds" for the unhoused, they could not remove the encampments? Every time a city tried they were taken to court and told they couldn't do it. With the SCOTUS ruling that being homeless is illegal that all changed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that was a city in Oregon or Washington State. it was Eugene Oregon which has the highest per capita homeless population in US.
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pinklady
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Post by pinklady on Jul 25, 2024 20:26:52 GMT
Someone more informed can correct me but before the SCOTUS ruling wasn't the core issue in California that if a city didn't have enough "beds" for the unhoused, they could not remove the encampments? Every time a city tried they were taken to court and told they couldn't do it. With the SCOTUS ruling that being homeless is illegal that all changed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that was a city in Oregon or Washington State. So this is what I found for Orange County laist.com/news/the-court-case-that-forced-oc-to-stop-ignoring-its-homelessThe Jones v City of Los Angeles set a precedent until the recent SCOTUS ruling. This is why the cities have not been able to remove the encampments. And more housing takes forever to be built because NIMBY.
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 25, 2024 20:41:27 GMT
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that was a city in Oregon or Washington State. So this is what I found for Orange County laist.com/news/the-court-case-that-forced-oc-to-stop-ignoring-its-homelessThe Jones v City of Los Angeles set a precedent until the recent SCOTUS ruling. This is why the cities have not been able to remove the encampments. And more housing takes forever to be built because NIMBY. Exactly. It took over a year for a vacant motel to be turned into tiny homes for unhoused. I do know our city had stated that if there were no beds or an open shelter, unhoused couldn't be moved. PD still does it (claiming some stupid law to put them in jail for the night) and destroy their property. Ugh
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 25, 2024 21:31:47 GMT
It's just short-sighted. Yes, having people living in public camps is not great for them or for anyone else. But you know what else isn't great? Having people move to a new place and put up a new camp there, or paying a gazillion dollars to warehouse people in jail.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jul 25, 2024 23:04:04 GMT
And because state mental hospitals closed down and laws changed, those who need help won't get it still. Until laws change, the question remains...where will they go? That’s what I wonder to. We have a homeless outreach with our city so they know most of the homeless and have reunited some with family including some in other states but only if they have family that will actually take them in. They have gift cards for food and such. The problem is most of the ones in our area choose to remain on the street. They can clean up a camp but they just move to another area and steal what they need to create another shelter. The process repeats. I rarely see them but others say that they shoot up on the streets and the police can’t do anything about it. I think most of ours aren’t out in the open but maybe I’m just not seeing them in my area. There were a few I would see almost daily when I was picking up my son after school but haven’t seen them since I’m not sitting in the parking lot behind a strip mall. I just don’t see that taking money from a city is going to help. We don’t have any shelters in our area so there is no place to even attempt to send them to. I guess they will try to push them out of our city? There are people that will drive down from Orange County to beg on the weekends as we are a generous area - this is documented by police that these people aren’t homeless but just come to beg here - one is a software engineer or something like that. We do have homeless as well but different group. I wish there was more we could do about those begging - another few groups will beg with their kids and sometimes really little ones. The police say their hands are tied. They aren’t homeless a man /husband drops them off in a nice car and they have been followed home. I wish they could make no panhandling laws. It would be nice if we could remove them as they do cause some issues at a few shopping centers. Our Target is in one of these centers. I just don’t see this as a humane solution. I guess we will see. I’m in a very red area so if they could kick them out I’m sure the Sheriff would have done so already (famous Sheriff that loves TFG and made it onto Fox during the pandemic). The city though has the outreach that works with our contracted police. I bet it’s going to get messy between city vs county on this issue soon. I just don’t see this ending well. This doesn’t address the problem.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jul 25, 2024 23:09:38 GMT
The largest problem is, by law, we can no longer commit unhoused persons who need services. So again where will they go? I mean in all honesty probably jail. But is that the solution? CA doesn't have the room for that. They don't even keep folks who committed a crime for more than a day or so anymore. There is a non profit in Central CA and I love their model. It's not fully built so it's hard to say what the impact on the homeless crisis it will make but if more cities could create this type of community we may see a change. www.saltandlightworks.org/That sounds good but if someone has an addiction and doesn’t want to quit they won’t. Most shelters aren’t set up to handle addiction so they aren’t welcome. That and they usually require drug testing. An addict that doesn’t want to quit doesn’t want to live with testing and someone trying to get them clean. If it was just people that couldn’t afford housing that needs a hand up then this type of thing will help. I know they mean well but most likely it will still not help in the long run. This problem is complex.
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 25, 2024 23:13:19 GMT
The largest problem is, by law, we can no longer commit unhoused persons who need services. So again where will they go? I mean in all honesty probably jail. But is that the solution? CA doesn't have the room for that. They don't even keep folks who committed a crime for more than a day or so anymore. There is a non profit in Central CA and I love their model. It's not fully built so it's hard to say what the impact on the homeless crisis it will make but if more cities could create this type of community we may see a change. www.saltandlightworks.org/There are places that are building tiny home villages, too. A village where they can provide social services seems like a good plan. And housing first because I imagine it would be difficult for drug addicts to get clean on the streets. There are a lot of unused office spaces now. I know it's expensive to renovate them into apartments but it seems like such a waste to have these empty spaces and so many homeless people.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jul 25, 2024 23:23:39 GMT
CA doesn't have the room for that. They don't even keep folks who committed a crime for more than a day or so anymore. There is a non profit in Central CA and I love their model. It's not fully built so it's hard to say what the impact on the homeless crisis it will make but if more cities could create this type of community we may see a change. www.saltandlightworks.org/There are places that are building tiny home villages, too. A village where they can provide social services seems like a good plan. And housing first because I imagine it would be difficult for drug addicts to get clean on the streets. There are a lot of unused office spaces now. I know it's expensive to renovate them into apartments but it seems like such a waste to have these empty spaces and so many homeless people. When you see these it’s usually a very small number of homes and they end up costing an insane amount. I don’t remember numbers but it’s always hundreds of thousands and then they get totally trashed so quickly. They build like 25 but there are hundreds of thousands in need so it’s just such a drop in the bucket. Nit saying to just give up but I would love to see if there have been any success with any of these in California. I know that hotels that were used for homeless were totally trashed and cost the state millions.
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Post by ntsf on Jul 26, 2024 1:18:47 GMT
the lawsuit at the supreme court was in grants pass oregon.. which had no public services for the homeless to be housed. there is a religious shelter with very strict rules that most people wont go for. in sf, we are trying things like giving housing, support, and health services.. and if the people struggling with drugs stay sober for a week, they get $50.. it has been successful with some. we can force the mentally ill into programs.. but there are very few beds and few have been sent. we could do more to prevent one big bill sending people into homelessness.. but low cost housing is expensive to build here.. and it will be hard to build ourselves out of the problem.
for some people, they refuse all help and shelter.. that is the toughest problem .
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 26, 2024 1:43:16 GMT
There are places that are building tiny home villages, too. A village where they can provide social services seems like a good plan. And housing first because I imagine it would be difficult for drug addicts to get clean on the streets. There are a lot of unused office spaces now. I know it's expensive to renovate them into apartments but it seems like such a waste to have these empty spaces and so many homeless people. When you see these it’s usually a very small number of homes and they end up costing an insane amount. I don’t remember numbers but it’s always hundreds of thousands and then they get totally trashed so quickly. They build like 25 but there are hundreds of thousands in need so it’s just such a drop in the bucket. Nit saying to just give up but I would love to see if there have been any success with any of these in California. I know that hotels that were used for homeless were totally trashed and cost the state millions. The motel/hotels here in my city have done very well.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jul 26, 2024 2:29:36 GMT
When you see these it’s usually a very small number of homes and they end up costing an insane amount. I don’t remember numbers but it’s always hundreds of thousands and then they get totally trashed so quickly. They build like 25 but there are hundreds of thousands in need so it’s just such a drop in the bucket. Nit saying to just give up but I would love to see if there have been any success with any of these in California. I know that hotels that were used for homeless were totally trashed and cost the state millions. The motel/hotels here in my city have done very well. Glad to hear it. You only hear about the failures. If they could go it successfully I would be all for it. I just don’t want to foot huge bills. When you hear that the rent they are paying are thousands per person a month that is crazy. Although they do need services to help get them back in their feet so maybe not as bad.
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Post by needmysanity on Jul 26, 2024 13:59:59 GMT
When you see these it’s usually a very small number of homes and they end up costing an insane amount. I don’t remember numbers but it’s always hundreds of thousands and then they get totally trashed so quickly. They build like 25 but there are hundreds of thousands in need so it’s just such a drop in the bucket. Nit saying to just give up but I would love to see if there have been any success with any of these in California. I know that hotels that were used for homeless were totally trashed and cost the state millions. The motel/hotels here in my city have done very well. I think it all depends on who is running them. Moving unhoused folks into a room and leaving them there to figure it out most likely won't work however with case management, mental health, medical care assessable can make a difference. The housing first model does work but it does take more than just a bed in a room.
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 26, 2024 14:01:34 GMT
The motel/hotels here in my city have done very well. I think it all depends on who is running them. Moving unhoused folks into a room and leaving them there to figure it out most likely won't work however with case management, mental health, medical care assessable can make a difference. The housing first model does work but it does take more than just a bed in a room. Exactly and that is what is done here. Services are given as well as job training and assistance.
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Post by Merge on Jul 26, 2024 14:18:01 GMT
This is stupid without a comprehensive plan to help people get back on their feet. Unfunded mandates are the bane of public education and likely public services as well. Fun fact: Texas outlawed sleeping/camping on public property in the last legislative session. It did not provide any funding for cities to do something with the homeless people they're supposed to remove from public sight. Guess what? Still homeless people camping out. The police don't have the manpower to round them all up, and the city jail doesn't have capacity. We literally see people sleeping underneath the signs that say it's illegal for them to do so in that spot. Houston does have a housing first program that has actually been very successful and is considered a model for other cities. We have reduced the number of homeless on the streets by about two thirds. But it has required coordination between the entities providing housing and those who provide other services - mental health, addiction, job training, clothing, and food, among others. But still, some people remain on the street. www.cbsnews.com/news/how-houston-successfully-reduced-homelessness/And I can't find the article right now, but it's also been reported that a good chunk of those the city helps are employed and on their own feet within six months or a year.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jul 26, 2024 23:13:37 GMT
This is stupid without a comprehensive plan to help people get back on their feet. Unfunded mandates are the bane of public education and likely public services as well. Fun fact: Texas outlawed sleeping/camping on public property in the last legislative session. It did not provide any funding for cities to do something with the homeless people they're supposed to remove from public sight. Guess what? Still homeless people camping out. The police don't have the manpower to round them all up, and the city jail doesn't have capacity. We literally see people sleeping underneath the signs that say it's illegal for them to do so in that spot. Houston does have a housing first program that has actually been very successful and is considered a model for other cities. We have reduced the number of homeless on the streets by about two thirds. But it has required coordination between the entities providing housing and those who provide other services - mental health, addiction, job training, clothing, and food, among others. But still, some people remain on the street. www.cbsnews.com/news/how-houston-successfully-reduced-homelessness/And I can't find the article right now, but it's also been reported that a good chunk of those the city helps are employed and on their own feet within six months or a year. That would be awesome. I thought there was a similar program in Utah years ago but then whenever other programs were shown they all seemed to fail. If there is a program that works why not expand it. I know one program won’t work for all but it would be nice to figure out something to help the most people. The housing first program seems like a good program or at least the best to date.
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