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Post by cakediva on Jul 31, 2024 17:11:26 GMT
My mother is going to drive me crazy.
She had health issues in December that resulted in a few emergency visits. Finally had a colonoscopy and they found something. She had colon cancer, had the surgery, had it removed. She was not willing to seek any further treatment beyond having it removed.
During the course of all the testing, they saw something in her breast. Which lead to a mammogram, then an ultrasound, then a biopsy. Cancer there too. She just had that removed two weeks ago. And agreed to listen to the cancer clinic once this was done.
Today was her surgery follow up. The surgeon (who is amazing) said pathology came back and they want him to go back in and remove more tissue. She doesn't need any of the other goings on (injections, dye, wires, ultrasounds) just knocked out and take more tissue. Her lymph nodes were clear.
Now she's back on the "fine, remove it, then that's it" train. UGH. The surgeon asked if I agreed. I told him no, she's had two instances of cancer that are completely unrelated to each other. Follow up treatment would be, to me, the best thing to do to zap any other cells floating around her body and prevent another cancer.
She has agreed to go listen. But that's all. I'm thinking she is going to listen just to keep him happy.
I get it, her body, her choice. But she's an otherwise incredibly healthy 80 year old. No medications, no health issues, just this recent bout with cancer. So why she wants to not follow up with any treatment to keep staying healthy just boggles my mind. Part of it is "I don't want to lose my hair" and "I don't want to feel sick" - but she won't know any of that until she hears out the cancer clinic.
SO frustrated.
ETA - I will definitely NOT be guilt tripping her into anything. Her body her choice. She believes the sun rises and sets on her surgeon (he's truly wonderful) and he said if it was a family member of his he would advise treatment. We had an engagement party for our DD on Saturday and she sat there and said "I had words with your grandfather today about not being here for all of this" (my dad passed in 2005) - and yet she doesn't see that her not listening to the clinic and having some preventative treatment could very well mean she won't be here for the wedding in 2 years time either. We've gone from "I'm all in I trust you" and asking my girls to go wig shopping with her should it come to that, to "surgery and nothing else". She's never had surgery in her life, and has now had two in the last 4 months. That she has sailed through and recovered from incredibly well/fast. She's been told that bodes well for her - with her not being on any type of medication at all and as healthy as she is, she is in a good position to deal with it. But again, her body, her choice. I'm just frustrated with her today is all. My brother is 2 hours away so doesn't do the doctor appointments with us. I keep him informed and he would be here in a heartbeat if needed.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 31, 2024 17:18:30 GMT
Hopefully she will listen to the surgeon after the surgery. Personally, I know that this is sneaky, but as her daughter I would bring out the big guns and guilt trip the hell out of her. Assuming that you haven’t already tried this, of course.
If you have, is there anyone-friend, etc, who she might listen to? I wish you luck.
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Post by lisae on Jul 31, 2024 17:27:11 GMT
The thought of losing her hair may be really traumatic for her. She's also at an age where she has seen a lot of other people go down this road. She's probably seen some come out fine, and others not despite all they went through. She's willing to listen and may just need time to process all this. I'm sure the surgeon has seen this reluctance before. Give her a little space.
Hugs. Parenting a parent is exhausting.
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Post by heckofagal on Jul 31, 2024 17:42:29 GMT
My mother was diagnosed with lung cancer shortly after we lost her cousin to an ugly battle with cancer. Surgery was not an option, and she was saying from Day 1 that she did not want any form of treatment (she didn't want to be sick like her cousin). Her oncologist had explained to her that even if she wasn't trying to eradicate the cancer completely that he would recommend treatment for palliative care... shrinking the tumor would make it easier for her to breathe and enjoy the rest of her tie left. She did finally agree, and she had chemo and radiation. She did stop the radiation early but we had several more years with her.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,853 
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Post by Rhondito on Jul 31, 2024 18:10:13 GMT
Look into cold-capping. She doesn't have to lose her hair with chemo, I didn't.
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Post by julieinsweden on Jul 31, 2024 18:25:34 GMT
Having watched my 65 year old father do a round of chemo and radiation for colon cancer. He died 13 months from diagnosis from a routine screen. I can totally understand your mum's choices at 80. Please don't try to convince her to do anything she doesn't want to. There is a risk that she would resent you every time she throws up, pulls out a clump of hair, or has chemo fever spikes. Neither of you need that.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,665
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Post by bethany102399 on Jul 31, 2024 18:41:59 GMT
I agree with the others, and I've lost my dad to cancer and my mom after a bunch of health related issues including cancer. She's at an age where I bet she's seen friends go through treatment and it can be extremely rough. My dad had the same reaction when they found the brain tumor that eventually killed him. The doctors were able to get him to understand that if he did nothing it would be days, but with treatment we got 6 months.
Meet with the cancer doctors and see what exactly they want to do. if they can get clean margins then treatment may not be as extreme as what she's seen. Cancer treatment has also come a long way over the years.
at the end of the day I'd try and understand the why she's so reluctant. Fear? or something else?
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Post by knit.pea on Jul 31, 2024 18:47:50 GMT
It’s very good that the lymph nodes were clear.
I wonder if they will recommend localized radiation.
Chemo is an ordeal, definitely.
I’d do the cold packs on hands and feet, to reduce
neuropathy. I’m torn on cold capping, personally:
I’d want the chemo to go nearly everywhere
possible.
Hair loss was a long, drawn out thing for me.
My hair is growing in curly and mostly grey/white,
which has been kind of fun.
But it was 5 months before it started growing back.
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Post by smasonnc on Jul 31, 2024 18:54:45 GMT
I have several friends who have gone through chemo. It takes a toll, especially on older people. I see them having other problems that stem from chemo including memory loss, general weakness, and susceptibility to illness. I had a lumpectomy for breast cancer and it doesn't sound like much, but it took a long time to heal and get my energy back. She's older than I am, so it will be even harder.
I was so frustrated with my best friend when she refused chemo in favor of what I considered hippy dippy bull$#*t, although I did it with her. She'd have lived a little longer, but it would still have left her very fragile the whole time.
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Post by guzismom on Jul 31, 2024 19:13:19 GMT
The idea of losing our parents is one of the most difficult things to wrap our heads around; yet, if your mother is of sound mind, she has a right to decide the treatments she is willing to take. The treatments for cancer have AWFUL side effects. They don't ALWAYS work to save or prolong a person's life. I understand you want her to at least consider the idea of further treatment by listening to the doctor's explanations; but perhaps she feels she knows enough. I listened to an interview with this man who is a medical ethicist explain why he has already decided that should certain things happen to him, he will forgo treatment. Perhaps it will help you in considering your Mom's point of view: www.cnn.com/videos/health/2023/01/21/smr-emanuel-on-living-past-75.cnn |
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Post by MichyM on Jul 31, 2024 19:19:30 GMT
At age 73 my mother was diagnosed with advanced esophageal cancer. She had beat lung cancer 10 years prior. She opted for only palliative care, and I supported her 100% in her decision, even though I would have preferred to see her fight like hell.
I hope you can bring yourself to respect your mother's decisions regarding her own health. All the best.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,850
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Jul 31, 2024 19:30:06 GMT
Hopefully she will listen to the surgeon after the surgery. Personally, I know that this is sneaky, but as her daughter I would bring out the big guns and guilt trip the hell out of her. Assuming that you haven’t already tried this, of course. ~~ DO NOT DO THIS ^^^ Your mother has the right to refuse treatment at any time. This is HER body and HER life I have walked this exact path with my mother and at the same hospital/cancer centre that you are at. |
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Post by gar on Jul 31, 2024 19:43:58 GMT
With respect I think you may benefit from taking a little time to think about this from all points of view.
I know it seems unfathomable to you but she’s significantly older and she is entitled to do things her way even if that means that indirectly, you have to face an unthinkable outcome eventually.
It’s tough, I’m sorry. .
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,294
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Post by pantsonfire on Jul 31, 2024 20:38:32 GMT
Hopefully she will listen to the surgeon after the surgery. Personally, I know that this is sneaky, but as her daughter I would bring out the big guns and guilt trip the hell out of her. Assuming that you haven’t already tried this, of course. If you have, is there anyone-friend, etc, who she might listen to? I wish you luck. Good lord, do NOT do this!! 😱😬 IF she wants to go listen, let her. And then both of you can marinate what was said and in a week or so talk. But respect her decision on if she does any further treatment. None of us want to loose someone we love but it is her body and her mind and her spirit that will deal with the side effects and if she doesn't want to do any of that, leave it be. Hugs to you both. May you both find peace in your moms decision. |
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,577
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Post by RosieKat on Jul 31, 2024 22:51:15 GMT
I'm really sorry. I can relate to the battle. My mom was told she had diabetes, but largely refused to do anything about it. She had kidney failure - my dad was able and willing to be a donor, but she had to quit smoking to have the transplant. She refused to even try to quit, and after a year, they took her off the eligibility list. Stubborn, scared women are a challenge, but ultimately, their bodies are up to them. The best you can do is just what you're doing. I hope she comes around.
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Post by nightnurse on Jul 31, 2024 23:16:30 GMT
I worked palliative care and my question was always “how would you like to spend the last few months or years of your life?” Not one person said having chemo or going in and out of the hospital. They talked ab oh t driving their convertible along the coast, spending time with family, taking a trip they never had the chance to take. But so many people feel like for their parents, they need to push them to fight, to prolong life. Focus on quality and not quantity. Support your mom, do the things you love to do with her. By all means, help her gather the knowledge she needs from the specialists to make an informed choice but then respect that choice. Let her enjoy the last years of her life is the way she wants
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Post by librarylady on Jul 31, 2024 23:26:16 GMT
MIL was 90 and diagnosed with vaginal cancer. She wanted palliative care but her daughter insisted she had to take chemo. Her last year was spent in/out of hospital and sick. I think she should have been able to enjoy her last year.
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Post by katiekaty on Jul 31, 2024 23:35:05 GMT
All I have is this, by the time you’re 80, you would hope that your family members would respect any decision you make and honor it!
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jul 31, 2024 23:36:52 GMT
I worked palliative care and my question was always “how would you like to spend the last few months or years of your life?” Not one person said having chemo or going in and out of the hospital. They talked ab oh t driving their convertible along the coast, spending time with family, taking a trip they never had the chance to take. But so many people feel like for their parents, they need to push them to fight, to prolong life. Focus on quality and not quantity. Support your mom, do the things you love to do with her. By all means, help her gather the knowledge she needs from the specialists to make an informed choice but then respect that choice. Let her enjoy the last years of her life is the way she wants 100% this. I knew so many people who had gone through cancer treatments and their last months were miserable as hell. My BFF’s mom, who was like a mother to me for 25 years, didn’t even want to see anyone because she felt so sick to her stomach all the time and because all of her hair fell out (she had been a hair stylist and that was really important to her). She was diagnosed in April and passed away in September. I didn’t get to see her until the last week she was alive, right before she went to a hospice place for palliative care. I was thankful to be able to go see her to say goodbye but I missed out on months of time I could have spent with her if she would have felt better. No one wants to lose a parent but ultimately it is her choice how she wants the rest of her life to play out. After seeing how things went for the people I know, I would absolutely choose quality over quantity if I was that age and it was me in that situation, especially if survival means having a diminished quality of life going forward. |
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Post by allison1954 on Aug 1, 2024 1:56:39 GMT
We say we are for body autonomy, my body, my choice.
How does that not apply here?
I'm sorry you are going through this but she really gets to decide how much or little treatment she gets.
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Post by mikklynn on Aug 1, 2024 12:54:04 GMT
I know you won't guilt her into treatment. I'd encourage her to listen to the doctor about what the options are and how they will affect her. Some treatments don't have a lot of side effects.
I will add that my DH fought too long. He did not have good quality of life the last year. I supported his decisions, but in hindsight, wish he had stopped sooner. He was only 68.
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Post by imkat on Aug 1, 2024 13:15:32 GMT
Thank you for sharing this link. I am in a position where here my dad’s cognition has declined and we need to help him make decisions, yet still respect his wishes. He is also 87 and very frail. He had a growth under his armpit, and his hematologist (chronic leukemia) recommended that he have a scan. The growth was benign, but there was another growth by his liver. They want to do a biopsy (painful) but my brother has discouraged him. He is suggestible, so he agreed with my brother. I think the old him would pursue treatment. I know I could persuade him to do it, but to what end? It might also be benign, but if not, I don’t think he would survive the treatment. I feel very conflicted over this. |
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Post by mikklynn on Aug 3, 2024 13:20:14 GMT
imkat What would be the upside to finding out if the area of concern is cancer? I'd let it go. I witnessed my late FIL being over treated, IMO, at the end of his life. My parents are 87. They are both in a care facility. I only have them treated for things that can improve quality of life. Dad saw a wound specialist yesterday, because they are trying to heal a pressure sore. My mom got a pacemaker, because it had the potential to make her feel better. If they had cancer, my siblings and I would suggest palliative care only. Hugs, dear Pea. This stage of life is so hard.
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