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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 14, 2024 22:42:48 GMT
A lot of people say blame Biden for rising prices and say that prices were lower under Trump. What specific policies did Trump have that would have led to lower prices? It seems to me that prices were just lower before Covid and have not gone down, in large part because people keep spending money. What policies does Biden have that people think led to higher prices? And what can either really do about it?
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Post by beaglemom on Aug 14, 2024 23:27:12 GMT
I would love to hear thoughts on this as well. My impression is that he has very little control. It does seem that Congress does have some power to step in on some things. But I don't think that the president individually has that much control.
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Post by lisae on Aug 14, 2024 23:32:41 GMT
Very little. Here's my theory of why prices rose so much so fast. Congress failed to raise the minimum wage (since 2009) and the Fed kept interest rates at near zero for 8 years. 8 continuous years! And then it barely rose until 2020 when it was again dropped to zero for a couple more years. Their rationale was that inflation was so low which means prices didn't rise during that time. Eventually that catches up with you. If the pandemic had not hit, interest rates would have risen more gradually and probably wages as well. The pandemic did hit and suddenly there were essential workers making very little who wanted, deserved and demanded to be paid better. Baby boomers were already retiring and the labor market shrinking thus a labor shortage has led to rising wages. Some states raised the minimum wage on their own - not a little but a lot at once. With shipping problems and changes in consumer demand, we had a fast increase in prices.
The government did contribute by putting more money in people's pockets but I would argue that Trump did more of this than Biden. First he got his tax cut, his only legislation pre-pandemic, and that was not paid for. Then Trump put more money in consumer pockets than Biden with the $1200 and then $600 checks. Biden did another $1400 but the idea came from Trump who wanted to do $2000 but could only get $600 passed in late 2020. While there were people who's income was down because of the pandemic, many people's income did not change. They kept their jobs or pensions or social security. In a years time they had an extra $3200 per person to spend which drove up prices.
I believe the low interest rates for so many years created a culture of borrowing because borrowing costs were nearly nothing. Why not buy the biggest house, charge everything on your credit card, get a nicer car, buy furniture on credit when the cost was so low? Interest rates have been historically low this entire century so we have a generation or 2 that have never experienced the kind of rates we are seeing today.
So blame the Fed, blame Congress, blame consumers who don't really plan ahead but don't expect any President to do much about this at all. Presidents always get far more credit or blame for the economy than they deserve.
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Post by littlemama on Aug 14, 2024 23:59:38 GMT
No control of prices whatsoever.
Corporations are making record profits while blaming "inflation" for their price increases. Im all for a free market, but for that to work, the corporations have to be honest and above-board. Since they cant be, I think their proce increases need to be regulated as well as the level of executive salaries. Corporations and the wealthy already pay far less than their share of taxes, so the rest of us bear that burden plus the burden of higher prices, all so the rich can get richer
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 15, 2024 0:06:08 GMT
TFG tax cuts for the wealthy were kicking in. People hadn't all been working. Have whole families home 24/7 cost more. Everything opened up everyone went out and spent dollars.. corporations raised prices during pandemic, never dropped them after, but continued to raise prices..
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Post by Merge on Aug 15, 2024 0:33:02 GMT
It's been shown that what inflation remains in the US is mostly due to corporate greed as they rake in record profits. No president has control over that.
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 15, 2024 1:34:08 GMT
Without question, corporate profits are driving inflation. groundworkcollaborative.org/work/inflation-revelation-how-outsized-corporate-profits-drive-rising-costs/While labor and nonlabor input costs have played a role in price increases, corporate profits drove 53 percent of inflation during the second and third quarters of 2023 and more than one-third since the start of the pandemic. Comparatively, over the 40 years prior to the pandemic, they drove just 11 percent of price growth.groundworkcollaborative.org/work/whats-driving-the-rise-in-grocery-prices-and-what-the-government-can-do-about-it/Consumers feel the pinch of higher prices at the grocery store more regularly and universally than other expenses.
The widespread concern about grocery prices reflects two basic facts. First, nearly every household – from the lowest income to the highest – regularly buys groceries. Second, grocery prices have risen faster than the rate of inflation since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. While prices overall have risen by 19 percent in the last three years, families are now paying 25 percent more for groceries than they were before the pandemic.
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Post by jackietex on Aug 15, 2024 1:51:47 GMT
Prices, reasonable so in many cases, went up during the pandemic. Those companies never reduced their prices even as their costs went down. It's definitely corporate greed.
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Post by Merge on Aug 15, 2024 2:47:08 GMT
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Post by Scrapper100 on Aug 15, 2024 6:12:52 GMT
Look at the comments this would lead to shortages. There was a long write up why this would not turn out well. Multiple people said they tried this in Venezuela. While I understand wanting to prevent corporate greed I don’t see how this could actually work. I’m not an economist but it doesn’t sound like this is the way to do it.
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Post by katlaw on Aug 15, 2024 15:38:06 GMT
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Post by Merge on Aug 15, 2024 16:12:30 GMT
Look at the comments this would lead to shortages. There was a long write up why this would not turn out well. Multiple people said they tried this in Venezuela. While I understand wanting to prevent corporate greed I don’t see how this could actually work. I’m not an economist but it doesn’t sound like this is the way to do it. They said they were only going to do it on groceries, and only to prevent gouging (not to prevent profit). Not price controls as in Venezuela. As usual, the devil is in the details. And of course any plan the Democrats suggest that might be popular with voters is immediately painted as socialism by Republicans. Here's a more detailed description: www.politico.com/news/2024/08/14/harris-food-prices-economy-speech-00174112As it is now, a small group of meat producers are getting together and deciding what our meat will cost. They did not reduce those prices when the cost of doing business fell after the pandemic. That is price fixing by corporations, a form of gouging. That's what Harris wants to prevent. Another example is that when the price of crude goes down, we don't necessarily see a similar drop at the pump. Oil companies agree to keep consumer prices high even when costs go down, to maximize their profits. That's also what Harris wants to prevent.
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,118
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Aug 15, 2024 16:16:09 GMT
Very little. Here's my theory of why prices rose so much so fast. Congress failed to raise the minimum wage (since 2009) and the Fed kept interest rates at near zero for 8 years. 8 continuous years! And then it barely rose until 2020 when it was again dropped to zero for a couple more years. Their rationale was that inflation was so low which means prices didn't rise during that time. Eventually that catches up with you. If the pandemic had not hit, interest rates would have risen more gradually and probably wages as well. The pandemic did hit and suddenly there were essential workers making very little who wanted, deserved and demanded to be paid better. Baby boomers were already retiring and the labor market shrinking thus a labor shortage has led to rising wages. Some states raised the minimum wage on their own - not a little but a lot at once. With shipping problems and changes in consumer demand, we had a fast increase in prices. The government did contribute by putting more money in people's pockets but I would argue that Trump did more of this than Biden. First he got his tax cut, his only legislation pre-pandemic, and that was not paid for. Then Trump put more money in consumer pockets than Biden with the $1200 and then $600 checks. Biden did another $1400 but the idea came from Trump who wanted to do $2000 but could only get $600 passed in late 2020. While there were people who's income was down because of the pandemic, many people's income did not change. They kept their jobs or pensions or social security. In a years time they had an extra $3200 per person to spend which drove up prices. I believe the low interest rates for so many years created a culture of borrowing because borrowing costs were nearly nothing. Why not buy the biggest house, charge everything on your credit card, get a nicer car, buy furniture on credit when the cost was so low? Interest rates have been historically low this entire century so we have a generation or 2 that have never experienced the kind of rates we are seeing today. So blame the Fed, blame Congress, blame consumers who don't really plan ahead but don't expect any President to do much about this at all. Presidents always get far more credit or blame for the economy than they deserve. I would argue that the numbers on the price tags didn't rise that much, but the effective price for the consumer goods rose a lot due to shrinkflation. I can't think of many items I buy today that are the same weight or volume they were back in 2016. These were subtle changes, and they were able to slip under the radar on a year-to-year basis. Over the past few years, it became more difficult to shrink package sizes because they were already so much smaller. How much more can you reduce the amount of cake mix in a box before you can no longer claim that you can bake it in a 9 x 13 pan? A box that used to make 24 cupcakes now only makes 18--are you going to reduce that to 12? Once they reached that point, producers had to raise prices instead of shrinking the amount in the package. The price didn't go up that much more than it had over the past years, but now it is more noticeable becauses the price increase is in the actual price, not the size of the package. EDIT: I'm sure the shrinkflation factored into the inflation calculations somewhat--surely they do it based on unit value--but I am talking more about how consumers view these price increases.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 15, 2024 17:09:22 GMT
Thanks for all of the responses. I wish more people would be more savvy and curious regarding this issue, particularly when using it as a major reason you are voting for Trump.
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Post by melanell on Aug 15, 2024 17:31:30 GMT
I've seen people crediting Trump with lower gas prices as well, which is especially ridiculous given that the very lowest price the memes and articles like to drag out is from March 30, 2020. And at that point the entire country had been on lock-down. Oil companies were sitting on oil that no one needed. Of course prices were low. And unless we're going to blame Trump for COVID, then I don't think we can credit the gas prices to him either.
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Post by papersilly on Aug 15, 2024 17:40:38 GMT
not much. prices are set by many factors. one, supply and demand. sellers will set their prices as high as the market will bear. if things are selling too fast and too much at a lower price, they will raise prices to level the demand. two, corporate profits. corporations aren't in the business of being good guys, they are in business to make as much money as possible for their company's value and their shareholders. eek out as much profit as possible. anything less would be leaving money on the table. three, competition. prices remain lower if like-sellers maintain competitive prices. but even competition inches up. i'm not saying companies collude to raise their prices but they know there is strength in numbers if they all raise their prices together.
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Post by Merge on Aug 15, 2024 17:49:28 GMT
Thanks for all of the responses. I wish more people would be more savvy and curious regarding this issue, particularly when using it as a major reason you are voting for Trump. Low-information voters are a thing on both sides, unfortunately. People don't want to be political, don't want to take the time to be informed, and just keep voting the way they've always voted. The best we can do is to shift those who are willing to listen and learn.
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Post by smasonnc on Aug 15, 2024 18:31:32 GMT
The past two administrations had unprecedented situations to deal with. First, the pandemic shut down the economy, then the non-surgical stimulus payments overheated the economy. With more money in the system, prices went up. That made the Fed and the Biden administration have to reel it back in, hurting home sales because of higher interest rates. Second was the war in Ukraine and the decision to stop importing Russian oil. It was the right decision, but we paid the price at the pumps for doing the right thing. The Keystone pipeline and the global warming initiatives took a toll, too. The president doesn't usually have as much of an effect on day to day prices.
I'm for Harris and I'm looking forward to seeing her economic plan. She talks about doing some things that look good to the voters but could end up having unintended consequences for people at the lowest rung. When we spend above our means, we have to borrow and that devalues our currency. We're paying a large part of our GDP for debt service which concerns me. My career was as a financial writer and I still keep an eye on this stuff.
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Post by papersilly on Aug 15, 2024 18:39:29 GMT
Thanks for all of the responses. I wish more people would be more savvy and curious regarding this issue, particularly when using it as a major reason you are voting for Trump. i wish more more were savvy too and didn't oversimplify how the economy works. if you look at it, the prices during the Trump administration were most likely higher than they were during Obama's time and Obama's time was higher than Bush's time. everyone complains about higher prices but historically, prices on just about EVERYTHING go up as wages go up, supplies go up, manufacturing costs go up. have we ever gone back to 99cent gas days? $1.00/slab of full pound bacon? $3,000 for a new car? no we have not. people complain about today's prices but we will long for these days in a few years when prices are even higher no matter what the government says they are doing to curb it. count on it.
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,272
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Aug 15, 2024 18:52:53 GMT
Two thing I am curious a out with Harris's plan.
1. How will this affect stakeholders and the stock market?
2. How will this affect grocery stores as far as varying prices. And sales. Will products go on sale? Will various chains have the same prices?
And a follow up, what effect will this have on companies paying grocers to house their products?
Just some thoughts.
I would love it if corporate greed was stopped, workers were paid more, and they were taxed more.
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 15, 2024 19:48:21 GMT
The past two administrations had unprecedented situations to deal with. First, the pandemic shut down the economy, then the non-surgical stimulus payments overheated the economy. With more money in the system, prices went up. That made the Fed and the Biden administration have to reel it back in, hurting home sales because of higher interest rates. Second was the war in Ukraine and the decision to stop importing Russian oil. It was the right decision, but we paid the price at the pumps for doing the right thing. The Keystone pipeline and the global warming initiatives took a toll, too. The president doesn't usually have as much of an effect on day to day prices. I'm for Harris and I'm looking forward to seeing her economic plan. She talks about doing some things that look good to the voters but could end up having unintended consequences for people at the lowest rung. When we spend above our means, we have to borrow and that devalues our currency. We're paying a large part of our GDP for debt service which concerns me. My career was as a financial writer and I still keep an eye on this stuff. I agree with most of what you said. However, one correction. Cancelling the permits for the Keystone pipeline did not increase the price of gas. The pipeline wasn't even built when the permits were cancelled. Even if it had been built, the amount that it could carry was minuscule compared to global supply. The war in Ukraine and the reduced supply of oil during the pandemic had the biggest impact on the price of gas. Ending subsidies for fossil fuel companies and stopping drilling on public lands may have had a small impact on prices, but they were probably offset by the Biden administration releasing oil from the reserve. apnews.com/article/fact-checking-895299166310
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 15, 2024 20:19:47 GMT
I've seen people crediting Trump with lower gas prices as well, which is especially ridiculous given that the very lowest price the memes and articles like to drag out is from March 30, 2020. And at that point the entire country had been on lock-down. Oil companies were sitting on oil that no one needed. Of course prices were low. And unless we're going to blame Trump for COVID, then I don't think we can credit the gas prices to him either. Trump promises all kinds of things like lower gas prices without providing details or specifics. He talks about returning to the low prices when he was in office. How does he plan to do that? Is he going to create another pandemic? Or end the war in Ukraine by withdrawing support and withdrawing from NATO? The only concrete thing that he's said is drill baby drill and he will undo regulations. Realistically, presidents only have a minimal impact on supply. Even though the Biden administration has imposed restrictions on oil and gas development in Alaska, slowed leases, announced new rules to cut emissions from oil and gas production, the US supply of oil has increased by 2 million barrels per day. In other words, if that was the intent, the policies have not slowed the supply. Conversely, reversing them will not have much of an impact either. A 2nd Trump administration might have a bigger impact on the demand side, increasing it by slowing the transition to EVs. If they increase the demand side without doing much to increase the supply, prices might actually increase under him. www.woodmac.com/blogs/energy-pulse/what-second-trump-term-could-mean-for-us-oil-and-gas/A US president’s powers to affect oil and gas production one way or the other are often over-estimated.
A change of approach on regulations and leasing would certainly be welcomed by many – although not all – in the US oil and gas industry and might squeeze out a little extra production. But US Lower 48 crude and condensate production has risen by about 2 million barrels per day during the Biden administration. If federal policy has been holding back growth, it has not been very effective. Almost half of that increase has come from New Mexico, where most development is on federal land.
In fact, a future Trump administration could have a larger and more lasting impact on the demand side.
The danger for any future administration would be that pulling the levers to increase demand while failing to do much to boost supply would put upward pressure on prices, particularly for natural gas.
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
......
Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Aug 15, 2024 21:14:36 GMT
And unless we're going to blame Trump for COVID, I do blame his mismanagement for how bad it got.
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Post by Merge on Aug 15, 2024 23:57:07 GMT
The past two administrations had unprecedented situations to deal with. First, the pandemic shut down the economy, then the non-surgical stimulus payments overheated the economy. With more money in the system, prices went up. That made the Fed and the Biden administration have to reel it back in, hurting home sales because of higher interest rates. Second was the war in Ukraine and the decision to stop importing Russian oil. It was the right decision, but we paid the price at the pumps for doing the right thing. The Keystone pipeline and the global warming initiatives took a toll, too. The president doesn't usually have as much of an effect on day to day prices. I'm for Harris and I'm looking forward to seeing her economic plan. She talks about doing some things that look good to the voters but could end up having unintended consequences for people at the lowest rung. When we spend above our means, we have to borrow and that devalues our currency. We're paying a large part of our GDP for debt service which concerns me. My career was as a financial writer and I still keep an eye on this stuff. I agree with most of what you said. However, one correction. Cancelling the permits for the Keystone pipeline did not increase the price of gas. The pipeline wasn't even built when the permits were cancelled. Even if it had been built, the amount that it could carry was minuscule compared to global supply. The war in Ukraine and the reduced supply of oil during the pandemic had the biggest impact on the price of gas. Ending subsidies for fossil fuel companies and stopping drilling on public lands may have had a small impact on prices, but they were probably offset by the Biden administration releasing oil from the reserve. apnews.com/article/fact-checking-895299166310Not to mention the fact that it was meant to carry oil from Canada, and wouldn't have done crap for moving the US toward energy independence.
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Post by heckofagal on Aug 16, 2024 13:54:23 GMT
I do remember when Trump was president we were looking at new countertops and all the retailers were telling us they had gone up in pricing because of the tariffs Trump had imposed.
And all of his talk about more tariffs if he were elected again...we would be paying MORE for everything!
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Post by hop2 on Aug 16, 2024 18:14:37 GMT
Inflation is a symptom of an unbalanced power structure in the economy.
Economies are more stable when economic power is shared over a wide base including the working members.
Inflation is out of control when the economic power is held closely by a few groups/people/corporations at the top. When power is closely held in a small portion then ‘they’ can do whatever they want with pricing & wages. And they fight to keep all of the economic power.
If you look at economic history the economy had been the most stable when the economic power is shared more amongst the productive members of the economy. Plutocracies are unsustainable and volatile.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Aug 16, 2024 20:13:27 GMT
I'm not an economist... but I think the deferral of student loan payments for extra years after the pandemic wasn't helpful in reining in inflation.
Trump started it as a response to the massive job losses during the pandemic, and Biden kept it going because it was politically popular.
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Post by Merge on Aug 16, 2024 22:32:59 GMT
I'm not an economist... but I think the deferral of student loan payments for extra years after the pandemic wasn't helpful in reining in inflation. Trump started it as a response to the massive job losses during the pandemic, and Biden kept it going because it was politically popular. The alternative would have been for millions of people to default on their loans, I guess. Not sure that would have been good for the economy, either. Destroy your credit and reduce your ability to do things like buy a house or a car in the future.
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 16, 2024 22:41:07 GMT
I'm not an economist... but I think the deferral of student loan payments for extra years after the pandemic wasn't helpful in reining in inflation. Trump started it as a response to the massive job losses during the pandemic, and Biden kept it going because it was politically popular. Economists don't all agree, but the student loan forgiveness was projected to have a minimal impact on inflation. I don't think the pause had a big impact either. www.cnbc.com/2022/08/29/how-student-loan-forgiveness-will-affect-inflation-from-economists.html
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
......
Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Aug 16, 2024 23:03:01 GMT
I do remember when Trump was president we were looking at new countertops and all the retailers were telling us they had gone up in pricing because of the tariffs Trump had imposed. And all of his talk about more tariffs if he were elected again...we would be paying MORE for everything! He is unable to comprehend that the costs are borne on OUR side and passed on to consumers. I'm willing to bet that numerous attempts have been made to explain the error in his thinking, but he always seems to believe that he knows more about everything than anybody.
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