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Post by Lurkingpea on Oct 2, 2024 20:21:49 GMT
I am new to Kindergarten this year and I have 2 students I am struggling with.
When is a completely nonverbal highly autistic child who requires a full-time para educator, which we don't actually have.
The other child is actually who I'm going to ask for help with.
I'm going to say his name is Jack because it seems like for the past 10 years there's been at least one or two Jacks in my class every year. Obviously not the real name.
In any event this child is academically on target maybe even slightly advanced but not to the level that boredom or anything like that could possibly be a factor.
However this child walks and acts like you would expect a toddler to act. Motor skills are all over the place cannot hold scissors but can draw amazingly accurate spirals and small items. But cannot write their name or any letters. Gross motor skills are probably a little bit delayed but not to the point that any intervention would be needed. Same with fine motor skills I think they just haven't had any exposure.
The main issue I'm having though is behavior. This child cannot sit still for any sort of story or circle time unless it is singing and even that only last for a song. I am not one of those teachers that makes children sit up criss-cross applesauce at attention for a story. I let them lie down on the rug if they need to I let them stand in the back if they like to just as long as they're not blocking or bothering someone I don't care. This child one sentence into the book is plowing through the other children to come up to point to something in the book ask a question or get a closer look. I of course tried having them sit in front of me, that does not matter they just stand up and block the other children. I tried giving them something to hold during the story. I have tried having them sit at a table with another quiet activity, nothing works.
When it is line up time for outside I blow the whistle every child comes to line up except for Jack. Jack runs up higher on the play structure. I've tried having them be first in line. I've tried having Jack carry things for me, nothing really works. When they are asked to do something such as line up to go to the cafeteria for lunch or to go to the library or music or what have you If they do not want to go Jack will say "no I'm not going to the cafeteria". I say " it's time to go to the cafeteria, there's not going to be anyone in the classroom" they say "No it is not time for the cafeteria".
Recently this last week or two when I ask them to do something they say "no it's not time for such and such" Then they follow up with "I'm going to hit you" which they keep repeating usually alternating it with "I hate you".
During activity times Jack will walk over purposely and knock over somebody's blocks the way toddlers do when they want attention. Jack was trying to comb another child's hair with blocks the other day. Jack will just take things out of other children's hands. He will randomly just walk over and hit somebody on the head with a toy. Very 2-year-old behavior in my opinion.
Outside I have witnessed them pushing other children off of a climbing thing they want. Pull kids off the monkey bars, one day I was talking to a child Jack ran from 100 yd away two arms out in front of him just to push the child over.
I honestly do not think any of these behaviors are malicious I believe they are just trying to interact with the other children and are behaving like a toddler. They are very articulate so it is not a communication problem.
The other day during library time they were being very disruptive I went over and talked to them and said if they could not sit quietly they were going to have to leave the library Jack then said "no I'm not going to leave the library" then proceeded with "I'm going to hit you I'm going to hit you" I told him that if he hit me they would have to go to the principal's office who would then call his parents to come pick them up. Jack then they pointed out a random child in our class and said "okay I'm going to hit them".
Yesterday they were on a giant round swing we have at school and Jack was pushing another child's neck down with their elbow. I went to go pick them up off of the child. obviously we are not supposed to pick up the children but since they were physically harming another child and were not going to listen to me I had no choice. I was able to get them off of the child but they were still on the swing. When I said you need to come with me right now, we are going inside Jack said "I'm going to hit you" and then hit me. The other kindergarten teacher was outside and was shocked at how aggressive it was because before that they have seen the other behaviors I've witnessed but it never seemed malicious until yesterday.
Any advice on how to deal with this? There are many other things instances I could bring up but basically I don't believe it's communication issue. I Don't think it's really a malicious issue I think it just is a very emotionally stunted child.
The special ed people have obviously been in my room with the other child. They have not witnessed anything they think would generate a diagnosis with this child or garner any special ed intervention.
Looking for any or all advice because right now I'm just feeling like a terrible lousy teacher.
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Post by Merge on Oct 2, 2024 20:26:01 GMT
What is the process in your district for referral to special ed? I'd share what you've shared here with your admin and the special ed person in your school and ask to have the evaluation process started. [ETA: didn't see the sped people have been in your room. Are they qualified to evaluate? Or is it just the aide? Even a teacher is not a diagnostician. I would still take your concerns to admin and especially the parents.]
Before you do that, though, I'd have an in-person conference with parents to share your observations in a very neutral way, and ask what they notice at home. If parents are on board the eval. process can generally happen much more quickly.
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Post by ntsf on Oct 2, 2024 20:40:29 GMT
somehow the parents need to request in writing a full evaluation.. child find.. specialeducationboss.. has some great info as does wrightslaw.com
from what you say, there must be some developmental delay there. those behaviors are way off the norm. don't count on the others in your classroom to be able to assess anything.. needs formal assessment to get anywhere. and the parents need to drive this.
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Post by jill8909 on Oct 2, 2024 21:05:35 GMT
I'm sorry. Thanking you for caring.
What does the principal say?
What do the parents say?
Those would be my first thoughts. Not a teacher though.
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Post by BSnyder on Oct 2, 2024 21:09:10 GMT
As a former kindergarten teacher as well as the teacher who often received children who struggled with previous teachers, I hear you. There is often at least one child in every group that tests our skills, challenging us, but not enough to receive additional support. You have the extra challenge of having a student that requires a full-time para, but doesn't have one. I would undoubtedly push on that. Particularly if the child has an IEP, which they must if a para is assigned. It is not legal or ethically correct that the child is not getting the required support they need and deserve. It is also not ok that the other children, including Jack, are not getting what they need because you are stretched so thin.
I always approached misunderstood behaviors as a puzzle to solve. I think it is amazing that you allow choices for your students; many teachers do not, and that is often part of the problem. One piece of advice that I received early in my career is that escalating behavior on the outside is an indicator of escalating anxiety on the inside. As teachers, our number one priority is the well-being of children. With that, there is more teaching and learning for all. We need to really see the child, not the child connected with the behavior. Have you asked Jack how he is feeling? To me, he seems to have limited experiences with school-like expectations, and he is communicating that he is trying to figure out where he fits in within the group and is looking to be seen. Oftentimes, simply asking a child how they feel makes them realize that someone sees and cares about them as a human, building the foundation for positive connection. This doesn't condone the behavior but does build connections and model behaviors that you want the child to grow. Jack is also probably acting out more demonstratively because his "behavior" is beginning to cause isolation from his peers. He recognizes this and is escalating the behavior as his peers disconnect further. It is critical that the well-being of all the children is considered, so honest conversation between Jack and other children may need to be facilitated. Well-being means that all are seen and heard by one another.
Also, proactive expectation setting before a new activity will be helpful, if not already in place. You know this child, and you can probably anticipate 90% of his triggers. "Jack, recess will be over in 5 minutes. Will you be able to line up when it's time, or do you want to hold my hand now so you can remember to line up?" Allow him to make the choice. If he doesn't follow through, the next day, let him know you will choose because his choice did not work yesterday. Have class conversations. Allow the children to work through problems together. Maybe one will come up with a way to help Jack (and other children) solve this problem. After all, who knows Jack's feeling of not wanting to go inside more than some of the other children who feel the same way? Children are so perceptive and wise; they learn to support others' well-being and their own when given the opportunity and the classroom culture to do so. Of course, if possible, Jack's family should play a key role in expediting all of this by supporting the plan and language used at school and at home as well. (I know that is not always possible)
Unfortunately, there is never a quick fix because there is no secret weapon. You, Jack, and the other children will make mistakes. However, from a plethora of experience at the teacher and administrative levels, I know the time investment almost always pays off and growth is progressive.
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Post by Lurkingpea on Oct 2, 2024 22:30:55 GMT
Two peas is being wonky for me right now so I'm just going to answer some questions and thank you all for your input.
The first child did not come to school with an IEP or admitted diagnosis so the people that have been working with him are the people that are trained to diagnose him. Right now it is a part-time para, one of the of the special ed leads from he district office (once a week), librarian, principal and other people just rotating in when they can because he needs one-on-one at all times. He is a huge flight risk and cannot be left alone because he is violent towards the other children.
We have a brand new principal this year. They are already very frazzled by the other child in my class so they are being supportive but right now I think their energy is focused on this other child that needs one-on-one and an older child in the building that also really requires a one-on-one but has been taken away to deal with the child in my class. In any event we are documenting everything, that's really all we can do right now.
I really haven't had much more than just brief conversations with the parents of Jack other Then yesterday when he actually punched me. Because at first thought it was just more of a behavior issue based on the fact that Jack has clearly never been to school before and is a. only child type of situation.
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Post by Lurkingpea on Oct 2, 2024 22:40:31 GMT
As a former kindergarten teacher as well as the teacher who often received children who struggled with previous teachers, I hear you. There is often at least one child in every group that tests our skills, challenging us, but not enough to receive additional support. You have the extra challenge of having a student that requires a full-time para, but doesn't have one. I would undoubtedly push on that. Particularly if the child has an IEP, which they must if a para is assigned. It is not legal or ethically correct that the child is not getting the required support they need and deserve. It is also not ok that the other children, including Jack, are not getting what they need because you are stretched so thin. I always approached misunderstood behaviors as a puzzle to solve. I think it is amazing that you allow choices for your students; many teachers do not, and that is often part of the problem. One piece of advice that I received early in my career is that escalating behavior on the outside is an indicator of escalating anxiety on the inside. As teachers, our number one priority is the well-being of children. With that, there is more teaching and learning for all. We need to really see the child, not the child connected with the behavior. Have you asked Jack how he is feeling? To me, he seems to have limited experiences with school-like expectations, and he is communicating that he is trying to figure out where he fits in within the group and is looking to be seen. Oftentimes, simply asking a child how they feel makes them realize that someone sees and cares about them as a human, building the foundation for positive connection. This doesn't condone the behavior but does build connections and model behaviors that you want the child to grow. Jack is also probably acting out more demonstratively because his "behavior" is beginning to cause isolation from his peers. He recognizes this and is escalating the behavior as his peers disconnect further. It is critical that the well-being of all the children is considered, so honest conversation between Jack and other children may need to be facilitated. Well-being means that all are seen and heard by one another. Also, proactive expectation setting before a new activity will be helpful, if not already in place. You know this child, and you can probably anticipate 90% of his triggers. "Jack, recess will be over in 5 minutes. Will you be able to line up when it's time, or do you want to hold my hand now so you can remember to line up?" Allow him to make the choice. If he doesn't follow through, the next day, let him know you will choose because his choice did not work yesterday. Have class conversations. Allow the children to work through problems together. Maybe one will come up with a way to help Jack (and other children) solve this problem. After all, who knows Jack's feeling of not wanting to go inside more than some of the other children who feel the same way? Children are so perceptive and wise; they learn to support others' well-being and their own when given the opportunity and the classroom culture to do so. Of course, if possible, Jack's family should play a key role in expediting all of this by supporting the plan and language used at school and at home as well. (I know that is not always possible) Unfortunately, there is never a quick fix because there is no secret weapon. You, Jack, and the other children will make mistakes. However, from a plethora of experience at the teacher and administrative levels, I know the time investment almost always pays off and growth is progressive. Thank you so much for your detailed answer. I think you are right I think the behaviors are escalating because the other children are starting to pull away from him and do not want to be around him. Some of the girls are very nurturing and want to help me with him which is very sweet but also can lead to them infantizing him so I'm trying to help them learn to help because I do think it is important that they not be squashed either, but in a way that is appropriate. Jack just isn't refusing to go inside He's refusing to do random things if it's something he doesn't want to do. If he doesn't want to go to lunch he doesn't want to go to lunch. If he doesn't want to go to the gym he doesn't want to go to the gym. If he wants to leave the classroom in the middle of activity time to go to the gym He wants to be able to do that. I know my example was him not coming inside but that's just one example, this happens all day long. It isn't just transitions. I have heard other children talking about him in the bathroom saying there's a little boy in our class named Jack he's just a baby. I've tried to quash that very quickly. The counselor was supposed to come in this week and just talk about in general with the whole class about kindness and how we're all a family and We are all working on different skills etc etc, She was ill so she's going to come in next week to do that with us, hopefully that will help a little. Any event your answer was extremely helpful I really appreciate it and your insight is I am sure right on. |
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
Posts: 3,927 
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Post by CeeScraps on Oct 2, 2024 22:48:10 GMT
Document, document, document.
See if there is an actual clock time it's happening. See if it's something you're trying to teach when it's happening.
Do you have a friend you could just send a letter to....not words, just a letter you tap in messages. That way you could look back at those texts to see the actual time period without taking away from what you're doing. Then at night return to those texts and jot down what happened.
If the child is new to your district call the previous school, even if it's a pre-school. That may open your eyes to more info you may not get from the parents. (I taught 6th, 2nd, and 3rd)....I always would call the previous school. I learned a lot from those phone calls.
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Post by Lurkingpea on Oct 2, 2024 22:57:49 GMT
Document, document, document. See if there is an actual clock time it's happening. See if it's something you're trying to teach when it's happening. Do you have a friend you could just send a letter to....not words, just a letter you tap in messages. That way you could look back at those texts to see the actual time period without taking away from what you're doing. Then at night return to those texts and jot down what happened. If the child is new to your district call the previous school, even if it's a pre-school. That may open your eyes to more info you may not get from the parents. (I taught 6th, 2nd, and 3rd)....I always would call the previous school. I learned a lot from those phone calls. Oh believe me I document it all. I like the idea of the quick text however I can just text my husband just one letter at any point during the day that would help. This child has never been in school before. Thank you for your help. I really do think it is just behavior management. I can't imagine that they will qualify for any services. |
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Post by littlemama on Oct 2, 2024 23:22:08 GMT
Im not sure why he made it all the way to Kindergarten without any type of schooling/socialization, but that is likely why he is so far behind in those behaviors.
I bet speaking with the parents would give you a whole lot of insight into why he acts the way he does.
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Post by ajsweetpea on Oct 2, 2024 23:34:48 GMT
A visual schedule might be helpful for him so he can see what activities are coming next, especially one that he could have at his desk. You can have him check his schedule to see what the next activity is and review the schedule with him when there is something out of the norm for the day (for example, an assembly, early dismissal, etc.)
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
Posts: 3,927
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Post by CeeScraps on Oct 2, 2024 23:35:04 GMT
Document, document, document. See if there is an actual clock time it's happening. See if it's something you're trying to teach when it's happening. Do you have a friend you could just send a letter to....not words, just a letter you tap in messages. That way you could look back at those texts to see the actual time period without taking away from what you're doing. Then at night return to those texts and jot down what happened. If the child is new to your district call the previous school, even if it's a pre-school. That may open your eyes to more info you may not get from the parents. (I taught 6th, 2nd, and 3rd)....I always would call the previous school. I learned a lot from those phone calls. Oh believe me I document it all. I like the idea of the quick text however I can just text my husband just one letter at any point during the day that would help. This child has never been in school before. Thank you for your help. I really do think it is just behavior management. I can't imagine that they will qualify for any services.If the If the child has never been in a school setting that could be the issue. The admin will tell you that. Get the parents behind you by giving him a sticker. They really should praise at home if he comes home daily with so many stickers. Remind them purchasing stuff as a reward is a rabbit hole and their child is only in K. Create a sheet that you a send daily copies home. Divide the sheet into subjects or activities. I had parents sign this sheet and the child involved had to return it to me the next day signed. That way, yes, I was ensured the parents saw it. I’d hold onto the sheets. It helps with documentation. Oh… when you put a sticker on the sheet have the child be with you to see it. Once you feel he can handle it have him put the sticker where you tell him to. If he doesn’t earn a sticker put an X. Have him there for that too. Explain both to him. Once he understands then have him put the X and tell you why it’s an X. Make sure to note it on the sheet. That way parents know. |
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Post by BSnyder on Oct 3, 2024 0:14:50 GMT
As a former kindergarten teacher as well as the teacher who often received children who struggled with previous teachers, I hear you. There is often at least one child in every group that tests our skills, challenging us, but not enough to receive additional support. You have the extra challenge of having a student that requires a full-time para, but doesn't have one. I would undoubtedly push on that. Particularly if the child has an IEP, which they must if a para is assigned. It is not legal or ethically correct that the child is not getting the required support they need and deserve. It is also not ok that the other children, including Jack, are not getting what they need because you are stretched so thin. I always approached misunderstood behaviors as a puzzle to solve. I think it is amazing that you allow choices for your students; many teachers do not, and that is often part of the problem. One piece of advice that I received early in my career is that escalating behavior on the outside is an indicator of escalating anxiety on the inside. As teachers, our number one priority is the well-being of children. With that, there is more teaching and learning for all. We need to really see the child, not the child connected with the behavior. Have you asked Jack how he is feeling? To me, he seems to have limited experiences with school-like expectations, and he is communicating that he is trying to figure out where he fits in within the group and is looking to be seen. Oftentimes, simply asking a child how they feel makes them realize that someone sees and cares about them as a human, building the foundation for positive connection. This doesn't condone the behavior but does build connections and model behaviors that you want the child to grow. Jack is also probably acting out more demonstratively because his "behavior" is beginning to cause isolation from his peers. He recognizes this and is escalating the behavior as his peers disconnect further. It is critical that the well-being of all the children is considered, so honest conversation between Jack and other children may need to be facilitated. Well-being means that all are seen and heard by one another. Also, proactive expectation setting before a new activity will be helpful, if not already in place. You know this child, and you can probably anticipate 90% of his triggers. "Jack, recess will be over in 5 minutes. Will you be able to line up when it's time, or do you want to hold my hand now so you can remember to line up?" Allow him to make the choice. If he doesn't follow through, the next day, let him know you will choose because his choice did not work yesterday. Have class conversations. Allow the children to work through problems together. Maybe one will come up with a way to help Jack (and other children) solve this problem. After all, who knows Jack's feeling of not wanting to go inside more than some of the other children who feel the same way? Children are so perceptive and wise; they learn to support others' well-being and their own when given the opportunity and the classroom culture to do so. Of course, if possible, Jack's family should play a key role in expediting all of this by supporting the plan and language used at school and at home as well. (I know that is not always possible) Unfortunately, there is never a quick fix because there is no secret weapon. You, Jack, and the other children will make mistakes. However, from a plethora of experience at the teacher and administrative levels, I know the time investment almost always pays off and growth is progressive. Thank you so much for your detailed answer. I think you are right I think the behaviors are escalating because the other children are starting to pull away from him and do not want to be around him. Some of the girls are very nurturing and want to help me with him which is very sweet but also can lead to them infantizing him so I'm trying to help them learn to help because I do think it is important that they not be squashed either, but in a way that is appropriate. Jack just isn't refusing to go inside He's refusing to do random things if it's something he doesn't want to do. If he doesn't want to go to lunch he doesn't want to go to lunch. If he doesn't want to go to the gym he doesn't want to go to the gym. If he wants to leave the classroom in the middle of activity time to go to the gym He wants to be able to do that. I know my example was him not coming inside but that's just one example, this happens all day long. It isn't just transitions. I have heard other children talking about him in the bathroom saying there's a little boy in our class named Jack he's just a baby. I've tried to quash that very quickly. The counselor was supposed to come in this week and just talk about in general with the whole class about kindness and how we're all a family and We are all working on different skills etc etc, She was ill so she's going to come in next week to do that with us, hopefully that will help a little. Any event your answer was extremely helpful I really appreciate it and your insight is I am sure right on. Jack sounds like he is trying to figure it all out, and if most of your other students have had preschool experiences of some sort, I am sure he sticks out. If you don't already have a visual schedule available, consider creating one that the class can use or a small version in a file folder that he can have near him. Use a piece that moves to mark each part of the day. If he is not used to being ready to move onto something else due to not ever needing to follow someone else's schedule, I can see where he gets annoyed/frustrated by that. I would be, too! Do you have a visual timer? Something that you can use to help him see when the next transition is coming so you aren't always the one announcing it to him? Teach him and the group to use these tools. Then you aren't the bad guy, and the heads-up eases his frustration. And there are always other children that benefit, too. The children's culture can always be challenging. The other children not only need to be "kind," they need to see Jack as a peer (an equal) who needs their help sometimes, just as they might sometimes need help from him/others when they need to learn to do something. They need to see his strengths, not just his weaknesses. One of the things you could have the children work on together is discussing ways they appreciate others joining in their play. Chart the ideas and refer to them when needed. Update the chart when children discover things they want to evolve or update. Things always seem to work out better when they've taken the lead in problem-solving. I also brainstormed a helpers chart with children highlighting strengths. If you need help drawing great spirals and tiny details, who can help? Jack! You get the idea. I hope you can get help quickly to support your other child. That will relieve you, that child, and your group. Definitely document, as Ceescraps mentioned, not only Jack's behaviors but also your effort to support his growth, successes, and non-successes. The notes are not only good for referrals that may be needed in the future, but I would also find little gems that would help me figure out the next step. Finally, you are definitely not a lousy teacher because you care enough to reach out for ideas, not just throw your hands in the air. You are using your community and seeking resources. Teaching can be exhausting in the best circumstances; give yourself grace. Teaching kindergarten is always uphill from September through winter break. Something about January... the children are suddenly older and wiser, and the year rolls out pretty easily at that point. The other children have had more than a year of school exposure; Jack will take a bit of time. You may already know about these resources, but just in case... csefel.vanderbilt.edu/resources/strategies.html. I used the tools often and they were very helpful. Sorry! Keep think about you and Jack. One other thing to consider, if he is not used to being in large groups and school, he probably has periods where he is simply mentally and physically exhauted from negotiating his way through the day. Some things may get better as he builds stamina. |
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kate
Drama Llama
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Post by kate on Oct 3, 2024 2:41:06 GMT
I'm so sorry you (and Jack!) are going through this. I felt a pit of anxiety in my stomach just reading your posts. I have an absolute terror of kids hurting other kids - the parents at my school would blow.a.gasket if their child were on the receiving end of Jack's behavior, and the finger gets pointed right back at the teacher. BSnyder has given some wonderful, thoughtful advice, and you sound like a seasoned teacher, as well. It does sound as if Jack's "big feelings" are escalating, which is heartbreaking. How do the parents respond to hearing about his behavior? |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
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Post by pantsonfire on Oct 3, 2024 3:13:31 GMT
Sounds like the child requires a lot of sensory input and would benefit from a sensory diet at school.
My DD was given swing breaks during elementary to help her concentrate. She would go out for 5 min and swing. She required that vestibular input.
She was gen ed with support (RSP pull out for writing) and had SLP, Sensory OT, and PT.
She was also given various fidgets at her desk, weighted lap blanket, was given heavy tasks (like push in chairs, carry books back to library) to get that same input in.
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
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Post by pantsonfire on Oct 3, 2024 3:15:30 GMT
Also front load him. A lot of Autistic people require front loading
Dd had a visual time schedule on her desk and it was on the board. She loves the help the schedule gave and helped with off days.
When a change was coming, she got 1 to 3 days front loading.
During change, they started at 10 min and began to count down the class.
She was the line leader as well.
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Post by Lurkingpea on Oct 3, 2024 3:20:56 GMT
I'm so sorry you (and Jack!) are going through this. I felt a pit of anxiety in my stomach just reading your posts. I have an absolute terror of kids hurting other kids - the parents at my school would blow.a.gasket if their child were on the receiving end of Jack's behavior, and the finger gets pointed right back at the teacher. BSnyder has given some wonderful, thoughtful advice, and you sound like a seasoned teacher, as well. It does sound as if Jack's "big feelings" are escalating, which is heartbreaking. How do the parents respond to hearing about his behavior? The parents were shocked. I do think he has been escalating as the other kids aren't interacting with him except for the helper girls. I do believe things will get better as he gets stamina, learns the routines, learns that when something is happening it is happening even if it isn't on his schedule. I don't know how to react to his matter of fact statements "no it isn't time to go to gym" or "I'm going to hit you.". I have the visual schedule, I will try that with him tomorrow. We use it with the other child, so I will just make him his own. Thank you all. |
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Post by Lurkingpea on Oct 3, 2024 3:22:58 GMT
Also front load him. A lot of Autistic people require front loading Dd had a visual time schedule on her desk and it was on the board. She loves the help the schedule gave and helped with off days. When a change was coming, she got 1 to 3 days front loading. During change, they started at 10 min and began to count down the class. She was the line leader as well. I front load everyone. I give lots of reminders and countdowns to all the students and have been physically going over to certain kids individually and more frequently. We also have a full visual schedule for the kids, but I will make him his own. |
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