bethany102399
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Post by bethany102399 on Nov 6, 2024 19:26:24 GMT
NPR had a good article NPR articleThe election results show that Americans were less concerned about Trump’s rhetoric and instead longed for a change. Polling just before Election Day showed Harris was not able to seize the change mantle as part of the Biden administration. Their assessment, and I don't disagree with it is that people aren't happy with Biden and the economy. They see Trump as being a change and are voting for that change. What I don't get is the blatant disregard for the rest of the crap he brings with him - it's not Trump himself I'm afraid of it's the bat poop crazy project 25 people who are hanging on to his coattails and are now in the door. |
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Nov 6, 2024 21:42:17 GMT
Some of the reason is just old fashion misogyny and racism. Another reason is that people were willing to sell their souls for a con artist that promised cheaper gas and groceries.
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 6, 2024 21:42:51 GMT
Joe Biden didn’t “leave” the race but was pushed out by the Democrats who, being the cowards that they are, panicked after his one bad night at the debate
The President while being pushed out by his own Party did it gracefully and with class.
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pinklady
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Post by pinklady on Nov 6, 2024 21:44:20 GMT
What are your thoughts on this?
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scrappinmama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Nov 6, 2024 22:13:32 GMT
I can't say that I disagree. Clearly the Democratic party didn't do a good enough job. I mean, it's a total collapse losing the house, the senate and the presidency.
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Post by hopemax on Nov 6, 2024 23:07:50 GMT
What are your thoughts on this? The things that would truly help the working class, and reverse income inequality are NOT steps Americans are willing to take. They are continually considered socialism, communism, a regulatory, nanny state; an attack on American business and capitalism. We can't expect either party to take policy positions that are at odds with that reality. There is no room to operate. Sanders had his chance to appeal to the working class and was unsuccessful, because he doesn't put forward meaningful proposals. The working class chose to back the candidate whose financers would like American wages to be lower, for unions to be broken, for existing consumer protections to be rolled back, for food, air, water to be poison in the service of business profit margins instead of someone like him in 2016 and 2020. Is this a working class disconnect? Obviously. But the working class knee-jerk response is often, "Not like that!" They contributed to these rules of engagement as much as the next guy by lining up behind the oligarchy of true elites, who wish to exploit them, under the misplaced belief that when those elites chanted "Burn it all down!" that what was planned on being rebuilt would be anything resembling their best interests. I see this with my Dad, "the enemy of my enemy" is not your friend except maybe, temporarily, in actual war. |
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PLurker
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Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Nov 6, 2024 23:31:01 GMT
My answer? Because no matter how qualified she is this country will not elect a woman president. And because of that, We the People are going to pay a high price for that fact. Why do you think trump won? The voter stats for Harris followed Hillary's pretty closely. Just a tad less because added person of color. Woman no. POC woman, hell no. Further bad reaction to Obama, a black man. White people is a big part of reason IMO. While we want to think we're more evolved, many of us want to be it's more obvious many more aren't ready. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 6, 2024 23:37:23 GMT
A lot of them watch conservative media, which does a lot to sanitize Trump and his argle-bargle way of speaking.
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Post by lisae on Nov 7, 2024 0:07:30 GMT
Trump won because of the actions of 3 old white men.
Trump - for some reason, people are drawn to him and somehow believe he will solve all their problems. He has made it heroic to be a victim. People have amnesia.
McConnell - Trump took credit for Dobbs but it was really all McConnell. Trump appointed conservative justices whenever given the opportunity just as any Republican President would do. It was all engineered by McConnell. He delayed the Scalia seat to give it to Trump and then rushed through Ginsberg's seat to also give that to Trump
But perhaps one of the worst thing about McConnell was what he didn't do. He didn't assure that Trump was impeached over January 6. He has said in his book that Democrats weren't the only ones that wanted Trump gone. All McConnell had to do was persuade even a dozen or so more people in his caucus to vote for impeachment and that would have been the end of Donald Trump as a politician.
And finally, Biden. Biden should have never run for re-election. He knew how old he was going to be and the rest of the country knew it too. We would have had a proper primary and issues would have been fleshed out. The nominee whether it be Harris or someone else would have figured out that abortion was important but the economy was more important. The nominee would have had distance from Biden to point out what has gone well - and so much has - and what was left to be done.
I don't blame Harris and I really don't think it is her gender or her race. Those were probably a factor for some voters. But she lost big. She got better and better in her campaigning as she went along but suffered from a lack of debate with her fellow Democrats on what issues were key and the time she needed to convince the country she offered better solutions.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,233
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Post by Peamac on Nov 7, 2024 0:35:42 GMT
I don't know anyone personally who decided to not vote for Kamala because she's a woman.
I do know people who thought she didn't do a good enough job answering questions in some of her interviews. Too much criticizing of Trump and others instead of sticking to the questions asked.
I'm actually quite surprised Kamala lost, with all the media coverage. I figured she'd get most of the female vote for sure.
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Post by katlaw on Nov 7, 2024 0:39:41 GMT
but why did we have record breaking turnout and new registered voters and the count is so low? How? It makes NO sense. This is exactly what I came here to say. Record breaking turnout. Record breaking new registered voters. Significant gender disparity. And yet the vote count is so low. MAGA Republicans hired as poll monitors, counters, etc. Would anyone be surprised to find out it was rigged? I just cannot understand the numbers being reported compared to previous years.
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Post by fkawitchypea on Nov 7, 2024 0:51:25 GMT
And finally, Biden. Biden should have never run for re-election. He knew how old he was going to be and the rest of the country knew it too. We would have had a proper primary and issues would have been fleshed out. The nominee whether it be Harris or someone else would have figured out that abortion was important but the economy was more important. The nominee would have had distance from Biden to point out what has gone well - and so much has - and what was left to be done. I don't blame Harris and I really don't think it is her gender or her race. Those were probably a factor for some voters. But she lost big. She got better and better in her campaigning as she went along but suffered from a lack of debate with her fellow Democrats on what issues were key and the time she needed to convince the country she offered better solutions. I agree with all of this. But the party could have decided not to run Biden. He is beholden to the party. They decided at the last minute to push him out and the only clear candidate was Kamala. If the Democratic party decided in January to replace him, they could have found a better candidate. It's not that she is a black woman. She did a shitty job of convincing the American people what she would do for things like the economy or take a position on the world stage. Hillary was the most qualified presidential candidate in my lifetime and she lost. I hope Biden is living his best life in his beach house bc the party did him dirty. You cannot run a candidate on social issues alone. This is where the Democrats were so short sighted that they thought that Kamala having a bunch of celeb endrosements would influence the middle class. That they would just focus on abortion or LGBT+++++ rights. These things are important, but not to the exclusion of all else. And this is a New Yorker that voted from Kamala. And for Hillary. |
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Post by smasonnc on Nov 7, 2024 2:00:44 GMT
Because the democrats won’t play by the same rules as republicans. It’s long past time to get down and dirty. Please, no. If there is no hope of a return to civility, what is there? Do we really want to normalize the angry rhetoric? No me. I voted for Kamala and have been near tears all day thinking about what could have been. However, as a registered independent, I feel uniquely qualified to answer the title question. When I lived in Asia, we asked why some countries didn’t clean up their trash, the answer was, “Because they’re too worried about feeding their people to address that.” This election was like that. It became a referendum about the economy. Many people are struggling and they know that things aren’t good for them under Biden. They don’t understand the intricacies of global economics. They have to choose between electricity and medicine. They just want some hope for relief. They don’t have the wherewithal to vote for things down the line from their immediate situation. Most of all, they’re f***ing sick of being looked down on. Biden was elected as a moderate but he pandered to the most liberal end of the party. Then he decided to run again even though he didn’t have the capacity. THAT is when Nancy Pelosi should have stepped in as she finally did. There was no Democratic process; we were just handed a candidate without a primary. I love Kamala, but I don’t love how we got her as a candidate. Biden’s weakened condition has emboldened a lot of bad actors around the world. He couldn’t even get Netanyahu to behave. GOP voters see Trump as someone who will stand up to China, Russia, Iran, etc. Those of us who are old enough to remember $#*tshow that was the Carter presidency see some parallels: other countries taking our lunch money, gas prices through the roof, unaffordable housing, and a foreign dictator sending us the residents of his jails and insane asylums. Good men, weak presidents. These are not positions I hold; I’m trying to understand and sort it out. We lost big this election. The Republicans have a mandate. That means we either move to the center or get used to being on the losing side. And for the love of all that’s holy, we have to stop being so sanctimonious. I fully expect lots of rebuttal blather and numerous copy and pastes of entire WaPo articles, but I just can’t obsess about this anymore so I won’t even see it. Tomorrow, I will end my pity party and find things to be grateful for in my own life and ways to improve my community. The alternative is to continue to stew and let my anger annd disappointment eat at me from the inside out which is not an option. |
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Post by AussieMeg on Nov 7, 2024 2:40:18 GMT
I don't know anyone personally who decided to not vote for Kamala because she's a woman. I do know people who thought she didn't do a good enough job answering questions in some of her interviews. Too much criticizing of Trump and others instead of sticking to the questions asked. If that were true, why the fuck have they given trump a pass for doing the exact same thing, only one million times worse?! He has spent the last 8+ years criticising every other candidate, both Dems as well as people IN HIS OWN DAMN PARTY!!! He has called them the most ridiculous names and told the most outlandish lies about them. Why was it okay, with these people you know, for trump to do it, but not Harris? It's a rhetorical question, I don't expect you to be able to answer for these foolish people you're talking about. |
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 7, 2024 3:28:45 GMT
Did someone post tugs statement by Bernie Sanders on this thread then delete it? I glanced at it and thought it was here. Anyway. IMO Sanders needs to sit down and shut up. Bernie Sanders… ”It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them. While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.” The full statement is in the link. x.com/berniesanders/status/1854271157135941698?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nwAnd here is a respinse that old Bernie seems to be ignoring. ”Unions are the strongest they've been in decades. -Wages among the lowest earners grew the fastest. -The child tax credit was expanded. -A minimum corporate tax was enacted. -A tax on stock buybacks was added. -High inflation was brought down to normal levels without a recession. -Millions of jobs were created. -Unemployment has remained low. -Manufacturing returned to the US. -Prescription prices were lowered. -More Americans have healthcare than ever before. -Billions were given to student debt relief. -The American Rescue Plan got Americans back to work, covered Cobra payments, and even directly gave Americans money. Let's stop pretending that nothing was done by this administration when it inherited a pandemic, a migrant crisis, and high inflation and managed not only to address all of those issues through Republican obstruction but accomplished much more as well. There's always more to do, and mistakes happen, but to act like Democrats abandoned the working class is ridiculous. Tell me how you're going to get Universal healthcare through a Republican Congress, Mr. Sanders.” x.com/jaredryansears/status/1854275372549878120?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nw |
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kimi
Full Member
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Aug 11, 2020 21:47:04 GMT
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Post by kimi on Nov 7, 2024 5:28:24 GMT
I accept that Trump won. But I can't help but wonder if the votes/counts were hacked. After all, Elon is on his side and if anyone has the means/skills to tamper with an election, its Elon. I'm amazed that Trump won all the swing states. But I do accept the results. Just makes me wonder.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Peamac on Nov 7, 2024 13:53:52 GMT
I don't know anyone personally who decided to not vote for Kamala because she's a woman. I do know people who thought she didn't do a good enough job answering questions in some of her interviews. Too much criticizing of Trump and others instead of sticking to the questions asked. If that were true, why the fuck have they given trump a pass for doing the exact same thing, only one million times worse?! He has spent the last 8+ years criticising every other candidate, both Dems as well as people IN HIS OWN DAMN PARTY!!! He has called them the most ridiculous names and told the most outlandish lies about them. Why was it okay, with these people you know, for trump to do it, but not Harris? It's a rhetorical question, I don't expect you to be able to answer for these foolish people you're talking about. Great question- I don't know the answer. |
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Post by nightnurse on Nov 7, 2024 13:56:20 GMT
If that were true, why the fuck have they given trump a pass for doing the exact same thing, only one million times worse?! He has spent the last 8+ years criticising every other candidate, both Dems as well as people IN HIS OWN DAMN PARTY!!! He has called them the most ridiculous names and told the most outlandish lies about them. Why was it okay, with these people you know, for trump to do it, but not Harris? It's a rhetorical question, I don't expect you to be able to answer for these foolish people you're talking about. Great question- I don't know the answer. You do know the answer. He’s a man, she’s a woman. No one says “I just can’t vote for a woman” they say “oh she’s so shrill and arrogant, she doesn’t answer a question, she doesn’t have a plan” but what they mean is “she’s a woman, she must be absolutely perfect in every way to even compete with a man and then, still, I gotta go with the man.” |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 7, 2024 13:59:06 GMT
NPR had a good article NPR articleThe election results show that Americans were less concerned about Trump’s rhetoric and instead longed for a change. Polling just before Election Day showed Harris was not able to seize the change mantle as part of the Biden administration. Their assessment, and I don't disagree with it is that people aren't happy with Biden and the economy. They see Trump as being a change and are voting for that change. What I don't get is the blatant disregard for the rest of the crap he brings with him - it's not Trump himself I'm afraid of it's the bat poop crazy project 25 people who are hanging on to his coattails and are now in the door. I think one thing that Harris could have done differently in her campaign is differentiate herself from Biden more clearly. The rhetoric that SHE was the one who was in charge the last four years apparently resonated with those who don't know how our government actually works. |
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Post by wordyphotogbabe on Nov 7, 2024 18:06:13 GMT
Trump won not only because he's an old white guy but also because he's shown many Americans that you don't have to be kind to other people or care about other people or do anything but whatever makes you happy and you can be powerful and "successful" and have people believe anything you say and accomplish anything you want. That seems like the ultimate goal in life to many people -- especially those people (MEN) who think that they deserve more than what they currently have.
He also won because it's much easier to judge and quantify success when it's numbers in your own bank account vs. making sure the country as a whole is successful and thriving.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Nov 7, 2024 18:19:02 GMT
When I lived in Asia, we asked why some countries didn’t clean up their trash, the answer was, “Because they’re too worried about feeding their people to address that.” This election was like that. It became a referendum about the economy. Many people are struggling and they know that things aren’t good for them under Biden. They don’t understand the intricacies of global economics. They have to choose between electricity and medicine. They just want some hope for relief. They don’t have the wherewithal to vote for things down the line from their immediate situation. Most of all, they’re f***ing sick of being looked down on. I read a post on Threads yesterday that really summed up my experience with this economic argument. It said something to the effect of, the people citing how bad the economy is which forced them to vote for Trump tweeted their opinion from the table of their local restaurant after celebrating a win of their kids travel ball team. I would also add that they drove to in their $50k SUV. The economy is always bad for the poor. Always. No matter what, they are going to struggle. But the most vocal economy grumblers I've heard are just regular middle-class people like me. They don't like paying $1 more for a dozen eggs but they totally can, as can I and I suspect those peas on the Republican thread who said that very nebulous things were "better" when Trump was president can too. My next door neighbors are young couple. Under 30. He has his buddies (20 somethings) over in their backyard a lot. Single guys, I assume because they never bring wives/girlfriends despite the fact that his wife is normally home. You know what he said today? He was a little down about the election. He supported Kamala and her loss is not the only thing getting him down. He was out with his buddies last night talking about the election and? They called him a fa**ot for voting for her. If you don't think that this bro thing plays into it, you are clearly not talking to young men. |
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Post by janamke on Nov 7, 2024 18:27:15 GMT
I firmly believe it is because Harris is female. At least that is the biggest factor. The United States is not ready, may never be ready, for a female president.
Case in point. I live in a blue state, in a very blue city. We had a local school board election this past Tuesday. 6 candidate, 5 women, 1 man. The male candidate did not have platform, did not attend any Q&A sessions, never attended a current school board meeting, no online campaign or website to speak of. I saw ONE sign of his throughout our district. No one knew who he was. But voters knew his name was Kenneth and he nearly won a spot on the board. Disgusting. He almost one a spot because he has a penis.
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PLurker
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Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
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Post by PLurker on Nov 7, 2024 23:03:15 GMT
Because a mass of people sometimes has a lower IQ than one. Informed Voters wouldn't be googling"did Biden drop out" on the way to the polls.  |
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 8, 2024 2:40:27 GMT
A reminder of what’s to come… ”Holding back tears: “It was a terrible night for women, for children, for the hundreds of thousands of hard working immigrants who make this country great, for health care, for our climate, for science, for journalism, for justice, for free speech, for poor people, for the middle class, for seniors who rely on social security, for our allies in Ukraine, for NATO, for the truth, for democracy, for decency, for everyone who voted again him, and guess what—it was a bad night for everyone who voted for him too, you just don’t realize it yet” @jimmykimmel @jimmykimmellive” x.com/drericding/status/1854526428752007561?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nw |
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 8, 2024 2:53:12 GMT
And this… Gavin Newsom… ”California is ready to fight. I just called an emergency special session to help bolster our legal resources and protect our state against any unlawful actions by the incoming Trump Administration. Whether it be our fundamental civil rights, reproductive freedom, or climate action -- we refuse to turn back the clock and allow our values and laws to be attacked.” x.com/gavinnewsom/status/1854572280200012139?s=61&t=j45uMgNk1i8O0YllKF58nw |
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Post by peasapie on Nov 8, 2024 13:01:58 GMT
My answer? Because no matter how qualified she is this country will not elect a woman president. And because of that, We the People are going to pay a high price for that fact. Why do you think trump won? I will agree with that, but I will also throw in the dismal polling results. 70% of people are not happy with the current state of the country. They looked at Harris as part of the problem. Who said, "It's the economy, stupid." Like it or not, lots of people are focused on that and think Trump will make everything better. James Carville said it, and it’s something the Democratic Party didn’t adequately anticipate or address over the past four years. The American dream of doing better than our parents has passed many low- and middle-class Americans by, compounded by tv footage of illegal immigrants receiving cards for free food, housing and temp cell phones has infuriated Americans. To many Americans, it seems the Democratic Party has become a party of elites who don’t need to concern themselves with these pocketbook issues, and right now we are having a Let Them Eat Cake moment in this country. If Dems want to regain footing, they need to stop yelling at people who disagree with them and start listening. (This from a life-long Democrat who is very, very upset about the election outcome.). |
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Post by peasapie on Nov 8, 2024 13:09:37 GMT
Joe Biden didn’t “leave” the race but was pushed out by the Democrats who, being the cowards that they are, panicked after his one bad night at the debate The President while being pushed out by his own Party did it gracefully and with class. I disagree with you. Joe Biden was failing for quite a while and yet he didn’t step, nor could anyone in the party force him to do so. He said he would be a transition candidate when elected, yet he didn’t cede power. Harris did a Herculean job in the short time she had to win voters, especially given that she was tasked with not denigrating Biden. Her hands were tied by having to say she wouldn’t have changed much of what he’d done, and if I were her I’d be feeling very frustrated right now. The Democratic Party leadership needs an overhaul. |
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huskergal
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Post by huskergal on Nov 8, 2024 13:45:33 GMT
When I lived in Asia, we asked why some countries didn’t clean up their trash, the answer was, “Because they’re too worried about feeding their people to address that.” This election was like that. It became a referendum about the economy. Many people are struggling and they know that things aren’t good for them under Biden. They don’t understand the intricacies of global economics. They have to choose between electricity and medicine. They just want some hope for relief. They don’t have the wherewithal to vote for things down the line from their immediate situation. Most of all, they’re f***ing sick of being looked down on. I read a post on Threads yesterday that really summed up my experience with this economic argument. It said something to the effect of, the people citing how bad the economy is which forced them to vote for Trump tweeted their opinion from the table of their local restaurant after celebrating a win of their kids travel ball team. I would also add that they drove to in their $50k SUV. The economy is always bad for the poor. Always. No matter what, they are going to struggle. But the most vocal economy grumblers I've heard are just regular middle-class people like me. They don't like paying $1 more for a dozen eggs but they totally can, as can I and I suspect those peas on the Republican thread who said that very nebulous things were "better" when Trump was president can too. My next door neighbors are young couple. Under 30. He has his buddies (20 somethings) over in their backyard a lot. Single guys, I assume because they never bring wives/girlfriends despite the fact that his wife is normally home. You know what he said today? He was a little down about the election. He supported Kamala and her loss is not the only thing getting him down. He was out with his buddies last night talking about the election and? They called him a fa**ot for voting for her. If you don't think that this bro thing plays into it, you are clearly not talking to young men. You nailed it on the economy. I will just use our local pumpkin patch. I live in a super red area. People driving around in their expensive SUVs and trucks everywhere. The pumpkin patch is not cheap. Packed every weekend. People buying food and drinking lots of hard cider. These same people that complain about the economy and voted for Trump. I will do my guilty confession, I love the pumpkin patch. We took our granddaughter out there almost every Friday. I know where my fall budget goes. I dropped over $1000 on food, drink, buying apples and other things at the pumpkin patch. Crazy. So when I talk about expensive, I mean it. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 8, 2024 15:05:11 GMT
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PLurker
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Post by PLurker on Nov 8, 2024 15:46:46 GMT
I think that probably puts in focus why I am so incensed by the craziness. Decades not years. Ive always wanted us to leave a better place for my and other's kids. Remember when your mom (well mine did) told you when you borrowed something return it better? We aren't succeeding in oh so many ways. I probably won't see a course correction in my lifetime. Feels like an abandonment of sorts. Sad. Angry. Lather, rinse,repeat. |
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