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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 7, 2024 16:16:53 GMT
On CindyTred's thread a few people said that they want better candidates next time, and I also see posts from family members that indicate that Biden/Harris and Trump were all basically the same and bad candidates. I just don't get that. Especially if you are looking at character. So, if you see Harris as a bad candidate, why is that? Who would be a better candidate in the future, for either party?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 7, 2024 16:33:00 GMT
She was not a bad candidate. She was more experienced then most. And yes, so is/was Biden.
She is a Black female!! Any other questions!
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Post by katlady on Nov 7, 2024 17:13:30 GMT
Besides being a woman of color, she had too much association with the current administration. I kept hearing “what has she done the past 4 years?” even though most VPs don’t do much. They forget Biden was in charge.
And some people were more upset that she slept with a married man, who by the way had been separated from his wife for more than 10 years when Harris dated him, than the fact that Trump cheated on all his wives.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Nov 7, 2024 17:18:18 GMT
I think what turned me off of her a bit, is when asked, what would you have done differently then Biden? and she said nothing. she couldn't think of anything. I think she should have said the economy, the border, she should have said something. I know she was in a hard spot. but that really turned people off, thinking that nothing would change under her.
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samantha25
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Post by samantha25 on Nov 7, 2024 17:20:54 GMT
She is a woman.
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scorpeao
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Post by scorpeao on Nov 7, 2024 17:39:55 GMT
First, she is female. Second, she is black. America would rather hand democracy over to billionaires than have a black woman for president. I'm sad because I think she would've brought humanity back to America.
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scorpeao
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Post by scorpeao on Nov 7, 2024 17:41:02 GMT
I think what turned me off of her a bit, is when asked, what would you have done differently then Biden? and she said nothing. she couldn't think of anything. I think she should have said the economy, the border, she should have said something. I know she was in a hard spot. but that really turned people off, thinking that nothing would change under her. The economy was booming under Biden. The media would have you believe otherwise but ask any economist and they'll tell you. |
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Post by Laurie on Nov 7, 2024 17:42:32 GMT
I have been a bit shocked by the number of woman I have overheard at work and seen on social media that voted for Hillary but didn't vote for Kamala because she wasn't the one who they wanted to be the first female VP because she isn't qualified/earned it. Do you think the difference is that Hillary was very prominent in the media so her experience was well known. Kamala had the experience but it wasn't in the spotlight so there was the association that she wasn't qualified.
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Post by padresfan619 on Nov 7, 2024 17:50:05 GMT
She campaigned for moderate Republicans and not to the far left. The far left stayed home.
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Nov 7, 2024 17:55:29 GMT
I suspected a woman and a specially a black woman would not go over well with some people. I still remember when Hillary was working on healthcare during her husbands presidency there was a big to do because that wasn’t her role as First Lady. Some much prefer a First Lady whose only duty is to serve afternoon tea in a designer dress. I think the problem was that due to the late change there was no time to really pick someone with name recognition.
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samantha25
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Post by samantha25 on Nov 7, 2024 17:58:00 GMT
A woman...
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Nov 7, 2024 17:58:13 GMT
I have been a bit shocked by the number of woman I have overheard at work and seen on social media that voted for Hillary but didn't vote for Kamala because she wasn't the one who they wanted to be the first female VP because she isn't qualified/earned it. Do you think the difference is that Hillary was very prominent in the media so her experience was well known. Kamala had the experience but it wasn't in the spotlight so there was the association that she wasn't qualified. No, maybe that’s what they say out loud. No experience over felon Trump? No experience over a candidate who was blabbering incoherently at points? No experience over a man who was often threatening to shoot his rivals? Give me no experience any day. But she did have experience. |
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Post by hopemax on Nov 7, 2024 18:00:20 GMT
While, I do think misogyny and racism played a role in certain areas and demos, the widespread losses across the board indicate to me that the biggest problem was she is a member of the incumbent party. Normally, that’s a benefit but not following the pandemic and global economic reset.
There is no unicorn Democrat that could have won this. Voters needed to have their temper tantrum. As I expect things to get worse, we’ll probably be repeating this cycle until globally things settle down. Which could take awhile.
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huskergal
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Post by huskergal on Nov 7, 2024 18:02:33 GMT
Looking back, I would say that people might be mad that Biden was basically forced to step down. Harris did not do well in the primaries when she ran before. Not everyone liked what she did in California. She did not have a lot of time to establish herself. I think it is more than just being a woman of color
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Post by nine on Nov 7, 2024 18:04:53 GMT
What was wrong? She was a woman. And people just couldn’t vote for a woman. Plus she was black. That’s double points against her. What a rcist, sexist country we live in. It’s shameful.
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Nov 7, 2024 18:05:01 GMT
She was in an awkward place. She was too much associated with Biden and wouldn't venture out on her own. She agreed with what Biden had done. That was the problem.
I think we would have had a different outcome if the Dems selected someone else.
I simply voted for her because she wasn't Trump. Didn't like most of her plans because I knew they wouldn't pass Congress.
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pantsonfire
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Post by pantsonfire on Nov 7, 2024 18:06:32 GMT
Looking back, I would say that people might be mad that Biden was basically forced to step down. Harris did not do well in the primaries when she ran before. Not everyone liked what she did in California. She did not have a lot of time to establish herself. I think it is more than just being a woman of color Exactly. The simple answer, the cop out is woman. But there is a lot more to it and it's not because she is a woman of color. Dems need to look at what went wrong, stop pussy footing around and blaming anyone but themselves, and get a solid candidate for 2028. |
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Post by hopemax on Nov 7, 2024 18:21:11 GMT
To add to the point I made upthread about global incumbents
“For the first time since WWII, every governing party facing election in a developed country this year lost vote share, via
@jburnmurdoch
2024 Democrats are the red dot.
Absolutely critical context to any postmortem.”
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 7, 2024 18:26:23 GMT
She campaigned for moderate Republicans and not to the far left. The far left stayed home. And yet one of the main criticisms I have heard is that Democrats/Harris are "too far left." I am still not sure what exactly means, except that IMO the right has gone so far to the right that they have forced the left to move further to the left, or at least to look like it. I do think that Harris should have distinguished herself from Biden more clearly, and I think she was taken off guard by the question on The View. But I don't know that that is what makes her a bad candidate or equal to Trump in the eyes of people who say that they hope both parties can have better candidates next time. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 7, 2024 18:28:12 GMT
Looking back, I would say that people might be mad that Biden was basically forced to step down. Harris did not do well in the primaries when she ran before. Not everyone liked what she did in California. She did not have a lot of time to establish herself. I think it is more than just being a woman of color Exactly. The simple answer, the cop out is woman. But there is a lot more to it and it's not because she is a woman of color. Dems need to look at what went wrong, stop pussy footing around and blaming anyone but themselves, and get a solid candidate for 2028. There could be more to it than race and gender, but I don't think you can ignore that. What explanations are there for the difference in standards and expectations for Republicans vs Democrats? |
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samantha25
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Post by samantha25 on Nov 7, 2024 18:37:10 GMT
She's a woman and has no dick
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 7, 2024 18:40:57 GMT
I have been a bit shocked by the number of woman I have overheard at work and seen on social media that voted for Hillary but didn't vote for Kamala because she wasn't the one who they wanted to be the first female VP because she isn't qualified/earned it. Do you think the difference is that Hillary was very prominent in the media so her experience was well known. Kamala had the experience but it wasn't in the spotlight so there was the association that she wasn't qualified. People have discredited Kamala since she has been in the spotlight. Saying that she slept her way to the top, didn’t earn her job, did nothing, etc. My opinion is that is related to sexism and racism. Even from women. |
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Post by Lurkingpea on Nov 7, 2024 20:24:21 GMT
She campaigned for moderate Republicans and not to the far left. The far left stayed home. I didn't stay home, I voted. Most of my family are FAR left. We voted for her. I would actually thing she would appeal more to the far left and it is middle of the road that wouldn't vote for a woman. We have all seen the statistical breakdown, right? It was white males that didn't vote for her. |
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Post by hop2 on Nov 7, 2024 20:29:43 GMT
She’s a woman, and not a white woman.
The Middle East issues did not help.
Those protest votes against Harris because of Biden’s Middle East policy ( she had no control over it yet ) did no one any favors at all. I dread what is to come internationally. When that’s all in the works making headlines distracting everyone then they’ll turn to oppressing us.
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Post by scrappinmama on Nov 7, 2024 21:03:10 GMT
She campaigned for moderate Republicans and not to the far left. The far left stayed home. This is an interesting theory and I think the statistics are backing that. A hell of a lot of people stayed home. Did they stay home because she was a female? I think that was a big part of it. She was more than capable for the job. A hell of a lot more capable than Trump. But she was a woman. A black woman. Racism and sexism is alive and well in this country. I'm Latina and I'm beyond pissed at how many Latino men voted for Trump. Machismo bullshit! They voted for a man who did nothing but insult them. If what Steven Miller's wishes come true, they will begin the denaturalization process on a lot of naturalized citizens who voted for Trump. And I won't cry for them. I'll reserve my tears for all the innocent people who will be hurt by this administration. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 7, 2024 21:06:41 GMT
I would be interested in finding out more about who didn't vote this time that voted last time, and why. My sister (age 24) was working with the Harris campaign in PA on or near the Penn State campus. She said that their data showed less engagement from young people this year than in 2020. I haven't talked to her more about why she thought that was, but I thought it was interesting.
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jayfab
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Post by jayfab on Nov 7, 2024 21:12:13 GMT
I have been a bit shocked by the number of woman I have overheard at work and seen on social media that voted for Hillary but didn't vote for Kamala because she wasn't the one who they wanted to be the first female VP because she isn't qualified/earned it. Do you think the difference is that Hillary was very prominent in the media so her experience was well known. Kamala had the experience but it wasn't in the spotlight so there was the association that she wasn't qualified. People have discredited Kamala since she has been in the spotlight. Saying that she slept her way to the top, didn’t earn her job, did nothing, etc. My opinion is that is related to sexism and racism. Even from women. Yup. I do think most it was because she was female. I can't count how many times I read something like she only got where she was because of kneepads. From women and men. Kind of funny they blame that but then vote for a rapist. Unbelievable. |
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Post by needmysanity on Nov 7, 2024 21:16:37 GMT
For me, there were a few concerns: she has very little international diplomatic experience and would require extensive "on-the-job training." She was literally Biden's right-hand person and had to have known that his dementia was worsening, yet she didn't speak up. I sometimes wonder if she remained silent because she anticipated sliding into his position at the last moment to secure the Democratic nomination. She was selected, not elected, to run for president, and that bothers me. Additionally, she has flip-flopped on policy far too often.
I believe that if she had more time to develop her policies and had gone through the process like the other candidates, my opinion might be different.
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Tearisci
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Post by Tearisci on Nov 7, 2024 21:19:07 GMT
I actually don't think that it was totally because she is a woman. I think that could be part of it, sure, but I think that she didn't distance herself far enough away from Biden's policies. I also think that there is a large segment of our population that idolizes Trump and that it wouldn't have mattered who we put up.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 7, 2024 21:33:00 GMT
Of course the people who said on the other thread that they wanted better candidates aren't responding here.
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